betsy Posted July 17, 2018 Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 4 hours ago, turningrite said: I'm referencing the U.S. news coverage over the past 24 hours, where descriptions like "disaster", "capitulation" and even "treason" have been commonplace. Trump's Helsinki performance has even been panned on Fox News. The breadth of the negative coverage suggests a pretty resounding condemnation, if you ask me. I saw the press conference. I don't see any so-called "debacle" over what was said. Just because some people think it is, doesn't make it so. 1 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kerfuffle Posted July 17, 2018 Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 15 minutes ago, betsy said: I saw the press conference. I don't see any so-called "debacle" over what was said. Just because some people think it is, doesn't make it so. Betsy you could watch the press conference over and over and still wouldn't get it 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted July 17, 2018 Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 (edited) So many reacted over Trump's doubt with the US intelligence over Putin's alleged involvement. Why is that surprising? Quote Asked about Trump's comments by CNN, Republican Rep. Darrell Issa of California blasted the FBI and cast doubt over Mueller's Friday indictments. "I think just last week in these very halls, we saw an example of the FBI not being trustworthy," he said. "We saw the downgrading of Hillary Clinton's criminal activity with the words being changed on [FBI agent] Peter Strzok's own computer, so for the president to cast doubt is not unreasonable." http://www.businessinsider.com/trump-putin-summit-remarks-some-republicans-defend-2018-7 Well....we've got evidence why Trump has his doubts, don't we? Just because they are AMERICANS doesn't mean that we should blindly - automatically - take their side, should we? That they're automatically the "good" guys. Anyway, how do you conduct a dialogue between leaders of nations? What happens if Trump started pointedly accusing Putin of meddling? Do they think Putin will just hang his head and shame-facedly say, "gosh, you're right. I shouldn't have been meddling." More likely, we'll be back right smack in the middle of a cold war! Edited July 17, 2018 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turningrite Posted July 17, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 13 minutes ago, betsy said: I saw the press conference. I don't see any so-called "debacle" over what was said. Just because some people think it is, doesn't make it so. So, you didn't read or watch the U.S. media coverage of the Helsinki fiasco, right? Nor apparently have you considered in its entirety the context, content or implications of Trump's commentary, which was stunning on the face of it, particularly where he blatantly contradicted U.S. government security assessments and decades of official policy. To describe the subsequent reaction among American media sources as gobsmacked is an understatement. But you seem oblivious to the entire reaction, preferring your own personal interpretation. Ignorance is bliss, for some, I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted July 17, 2018 Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 3 minutes ago, Kerfuffle said: Betsy you could watch the press conference over and over and still wouldn't get it You have to understand where Betsy is coming from. As long as Trump says he's going to ban abortion he can sacrifice virgins in the street and worship Satan. It doesn't matter. Just say he's against abortion and he's her new God. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted July 17, 2018 Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 (edited) We know that the anti-Trump are doing their best to get rid of Trump - and they're making the "collusion" narrative stick. They've got the motive. Really.....they're trying to make something out of Trump's effort to be diplomatic with Putin. If Trump came after Putin blasting away with bravado, guess what - they'll still be dumping on Trump for not being diplomatic with Putin. Edited July 17, 2018 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kerfuffle Posted July 17, 2018 Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 2 minutes ago, betsy said: What happens if Trump started pointedly accusing Putin of meddling? Do they think Putin will just hang his head and shame-facedly say, "gosh, you're right. I shouldn't have been meddling." More likely, we'll be back right smack in the middle of a cold war! Damn you should be President....never thought about letting Putin do what he wants and trample all over us ....at least we wouldn't be in a cold war....doh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kerfuffle Posted July 17, 2018 Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 6 minutes ago, Argus said: You have to understand where Betsy is coming from. As long as Trump says he's going to ban abortion he can sacrifice virgins in the street and worship Satan. It doesn't matter. Just say he's against abortion and he's her new God. Trump is a perfect poster child for why there should be abortion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted July 17, 2018 Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 Hahahaha. Doesn't take much for the meltdown to begin! Hahahaha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turningrite Posted July 17, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 Just now, betsy said: Hahahaha. Doesn't take much for the meltdown to begin! Hahahaha Have you calmed down yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted July 17, 2018 Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 (edited) 1 minute ago, turningrite said: Have you calmed down yet? You too? You're starting on having one too......... just like them??? Edited July 17, 2018 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turningrite Posted July 17, 2018 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, betsy said: You too? You're starting on having one too......... just like them??? No, I'm fascinated by the whole Trump thing in the same way some people are fascinated at watching train wrecks or airplane crashes. I don't think Trump has a consistent philosophy and I believe much of his recent foreign policy and trade bluster amounts to smoke and mirrors intended to obscure some of his bigger domestic political challenges. Trump scores points, especially with his base, when he hammers on foreign governments even though a lot of those who support this have no idea about the underlying facts and/or the implications relating to his policies and pronouncements. "He's just being strong" is the predominant reaction among this group. It'll be interesting to see how long he can stay on this channel, though, as he tends to have a short attention span. Edited July 17, 2018 by turningrite Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paxamericana Posted July 17, 2018 Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 Alright people crisis averted. We need to go back to bickering amongst ourselves about other stuff. Trump walked back his comment about russia meddling acknowledging that they did meddle and will actively repel future attack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted July 17, 2018 Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 25 minutes ago, betsy said: Really.....they're trying to make something out of Trump's effort to be diplomatic with Putin. I wasn't aware diplomacy required fellatio, but I guess my diplomatic skills are lacking, compared to Trump. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paxamericana Posted July 17, 2018 Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 6 minutes ago, turningrite said: Trump scores points, especially with his base, when he hammers on foreign governments even though a lot of those who support this have no idea about the underlying facts and/or the implications relating to his policies and pronouncements. "He's just being strong" is the predominant reaction among this group. You are making the same mistake hilary did when she called us deplorables. People understand that Trump is standing up for Americans who don't enjoy being taken advantage of by "allies" and competitor. If anything that is all we need to know. How they achieve this to show results will be up to his administration and seeing as how our unemployment are the lowest in decades and how strong our defense and economy we are pretty happy with the results. You are all just jealous, go find your own strong man. :p. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machjo Posted July 17, 2018 Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 So how's anyone supposed to believe anything Trump says when he just flip flops like a walker on the beach? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machjo Posted July 17, 2018 Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 (edited) There's being diplomatic and then there's being truthful. Edited July 17, 2018 by Machjo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paxamericana Posted July 17, 2018 Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 Just now, Machjo said: So how's anyone supposed to believe anything Trump says when he just flip flops like a walker on the beach? This type of fumble happens with many different administration as well so no big surprise there. At least he is sticking to the script to clean up the mess out of Helsinki this time... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kerfuffle Posted July 17, 2018 Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 6 minutes ago, paxrom said: This type of fumble happens with many different administration as well so no big surprise there. At least he is sticking to the script to clean up the mess out of Helsinki this time... I hope Trump likes the taste of a pecker in his mouth and the feel of Putin's balls on his chin... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paxamericana Posted July 17, 2018 Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Kerfuffle said: I hope Trump likes the taste of a pecker in his mouth and the feel of Putin's balls on his chin... Im not sure if there were sexual relations with putin but there were definitely no political collusion ;D Edited July 17, 2018 by paxrom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kerfuffle Posted July 17, 2018 Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 Just now, paxrom said: Im not sure if there were sexual relations with putin but there were definitely no collusion ;D Well thats good to know......now someone from Trumps staff needs to explain to him what Putin meant when he was rubbing the top of Trumps head and telling Trump he had good oral skills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machjo Posted July 17, 2018 Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 31 minutes ago, Kerfuffle said: I hope Trump likes the taste of a pecker in his mouth and the feel of Putin's balls on his chin... I don't think Putin is the promiscuous type, let alone the gay type. I doubt Trump is gay either, but I have every reason to believe he's promiscuous as hell. Putin would just need to promise Trump a pretty hooker to get Trump to bend to his wishes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 17, 2018 Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 4 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said: I'm sorry BC, I should not be winding you up. You do not have to admit that the optics from yesterday were less than a diplomatic triumph. I do have to admit that a renewal of Detente would be a good thing and while President Putin is not a nice guy, he is a damn sight better than Breshnev and he is a popular democratically elected leader. Don't be sorry.....Trump did exactly what he said he would do...continue blowing up the status quo. The bonus is that this exercise has exposed Canada's/NATO's deep rooted anxiety about a USA that will no longer bear most of the burden. It is good to make the allies sweat a bit, and show them what it means to spit on America as national sport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queenmandy85 Posted July 17, 2018 Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Don't be sorry.....Trump did exactly what he said he would do...continue blowing up the status quo. The bonus is that this exercise has exposed Canada's/NATO's deep rooted anxiety about a USA that will no longer bear most of the burden. It is good to make the allies sweat a bit, and show them what it means to spit on America as national sport. Actually, our national sport is politics. Anti- Americanism is more of a disturbing fetish that we should have out grown 150 years ago. Edited July 17, 2018 by Queenmandy85 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 17, 2018 Report Share Posted July 17, 2018 3 hours ago, turningrite said: ...I believe the American Conservative site falls into the partisan press rather than mainstream category.... Many Americans, and particularly those of Republican persuasion, seem to believe the world order built following WWII was somehow foisted on them by foreigners whereas the more accurate interpretation is that it's a structure of their own making. Self-delusion seems a weak basis upon which to justify a major power's foreign policy. If that be the case, then dismantling that very expensive "world order" can also be of America's making. Spain, France, Britain, Japan, etc. all experienced the loss of empire and world influence, replaced by Cold War superpowers of which now there is only one. China wants a share of the pie too. Why would anyone be delusional enough to believe that the USA would reign forever as the "post WW2" arbiter of "world order". What does America owe the world that the world will not pay for itself ? Quote As for NATO being obsolete, I tend to agree with you. As I asked in another topic I recently started, does Trump's behavior make it necessary to disband NATO? I'd have to go back and re-read your posts as I haven't been on this site for a few days, but I don't recall you supporting my position that NATO's time has come and gone. The U.S. can, and likely will, retreat into its historical international isolationism. Its importance will inevitably decline further in relation to the broader world. Maybe that won't be such a bad thing, right? With Trump in charge, many in the rest of the world will no doubt want to wear MAGA caps, but the meaning will be Make America Go Away!!! A topic already discussed in this forum several times. Apparently NATO was obsolete whenever neo-liberals used it to attack other nations (e.g. Serbia, Libya). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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