Army Guy Posted July 9, 2018 Report Posted July 9, 2018 (edited) I do understand the difficulty of getting anything done within our government, I also understand that politicians only interest is getting reelected for that second term . That being said good leadership is making those good and bad decisions or popular/ unpopular choices...what is best for the nation, not ones political career....it has been a long time since we have had a PM that put the nation first, or for that matter a good leader... On top of all that there is no will to make this happen, not at the governmental level or at the citizen level at least not with out a major push...which is yet to come....small hints have been constant for decades not only from NATO, the US plus a lot of our allied….Trump has just started with his campaign to bring defense spending up to where he thinks it should be, allowing the US to down grade some of its defense spending like picking up the slack for dead beats like Canada and to use that funding in other areas be it at home or on its own capabilities that they are lacking.... Canadians have been brain washed into thinking we are upholding our end of the defense agreements, liberals go to great lengths to convince everyone we are fighting above our weight....When all the credit goes to our troops , they are the ones that perform miracles with the little resources they get, turning shit into ice cream.....with our politicians , and our citizens taking the credit ….See you don't need more funding.....all those accomplishments come at a cost...... soldiers lives, in Afghanistan when enough soldiers had died we would get new equipment, not before, and then it was only enough to get the job done in Afghanistan, Imagine just for a second, that your boss refused to buy safety equipment until enough employees had died to substantiate the expenditure, and that news hit the media....the country would throw a fit....not in our case... And yet we just paid 4.5 bil for a pipe line, tax payers money, and we did not even blink....we were told it would take another 7 to 11 bil dollars to get built, again no one blinked....liberals have accumulated how much debt in the last 3 years, the PM shits money or at least he gives us that impression, the budget will balance itself....right....so lets tack a few extra bil onto it and renew our military....I'm not talking about expansion but rather keeping status que for now and replace or update all of our capabilities.....ride the liberal wave of endless money to shore.... Edited July 9, 2018 by Army Guy Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
eyeball Posted July 9, 2018 Report Posted July 9, 2018 24 minutes ago, Army Guy said: I do understand the difficulty of getting anything done within our government, I also understand that politicians only interest is getting reelected for that second term . That being said good leadership is making those good and bad decisions or popular/ unpopular choices...what is best for the nation, not ones political career....it has been a long time since we have had a PM that put the nation first, or for that matter a good leader.... Is overthrowing the government really out of the question? Can you ever imagine a time when that might be necessary? I mean, I've been listening to conservatives express their concern about how communists have taken over our government for years, decades in fact. You along with many around here have been talking about the need to ramp up military spending to defend ourselves against communists abroad but by many accounts over half our country is already in the hands of commies. Its pretty hard to take the concern about Russian and Chinese commies when you're literally drowning in commies already. Again I ask, exactly wtf are you waiting for, permission? Why would you need that? Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
paxamericana Posted July 9, 2018 Author Report Posted July 9, 2018 Best way to find money to pay for the extra spending is to adopt free trade with us. Trump was trying to do the right thing and your PM talked behind his back. Not even man enough to face him and now decided to adopt further tariff to escalate. Only to appeal for political point whilst harming canadian interest. Quote
eyeball Posted July 9, 2018 Report Posted July 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, paxrom said: Best way to find money to pay for the extra spending is to adopt free trade with us. Trump was trying to do the right thing and your PM talked behind his back. Not even man enough to face him and now decided to adopt further tariff to escalate. Only to appeal for political point whilst harming canadian interest. How would feel about a right-wing military coup in Canada? Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Queenmandy85 Posted July 9, 2018 Report Posted July 9, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Army Guy said: I'm not talking about expansion but rather keeping status quo for now and replace or update all of our capabilities. The status quo is an expensive token. Currently, the Canadian Forces are in no position to defend this country. Afganistan damaged the army. I don't recall any mission that inflicted as many psychological casualties as that. Even the Great War did not have that great an impact. As for cyber attacks, terrorism etc, they are police matters. To make a proper change to our Defence Policy, a government would need to propose it and then call an election and run on that issue. They cannot simply stand in the House of Commons one day and yell "surprise." It would most likely occur in the budget and then ask the GG for an election. Do you see a way for the government to win that election? As for politicians, getting re-elected is a measure of how democracy is working. It is their job to do what their employers want and that isn't easy. In the infantry, a soldier has a single person giving them orders. An MP has 20 million people giving them orders and they are conflicting. Everyone thinks they are your boss and pre-judge you, believing you are a liar and a thief. Inspite of that, you work 100 hour weeks, never see your family and leave office poorer than when you entered. (end of rant 2). Edited July 9, 2018 by Queenmandy85 Quote A Conservative stands for God, King and Country
Queenmandy85 Posted July 9, 2018 Report Posted July 9, 2018 2 hours ago, Army Guy said: .liberals have accumulated how much debt in the last 3 years, the PM shits money Not to nitpick and God help me for not saying something againt the Liberals, but the Harper government pissed away the surplus left to them and buried us in deficit. Okay, so I am nitpicking. Quote A Conservative stands for God, King and Country
turningrite Posted July 9, 2018 Report Posted July 9, 2018 (edited) On 7/7/2018 at 2:58 PM, Army Guy said: I don't want to sound rude, but I put as much thought into my reply as you did in fact checking your facts.... I think it reasonable to expect others to rationally outline and explain their objections to posts on this site. I believe "WTF" to constitute an uncivil and intellectually irrelevant critique, and I think it pretty fair to state that's a fact. If you have something coherent to offer, you're free to do so. Otherwise, you've lost this debate. Edited July 9, 2018 by turningrite Quote
paxamericana Posted July 9, 2018 Author Report Posted July 9, 2018 3 hours ago, eyeball said: How would feel about a right-wing military coup in Canada? In canada? Lols if anything it'll happen in the states before it ever happens in canada. You guys are way too non confrontational with each other. Quote
eyeball Posted July 9, 2018 Report Posted July 9, 2018 1 minute ago, paxrom said: In canada? Lols if anything it'll happen in the states before it ever happens in canada. You guys are way too non confrontational with each other. Hardly seems necessary for one in the US, the only missing element really is the existence of death squads. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
paxamericana Posted July 9, 2018 Author Report Posted July 9, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, eyeball said: Hardly seems necessary for one in the US, the only missing element really is the existence of death squads. You'd be surprise the alt-right and anti-fa are going at each other every chance they get. The only thing funny is that only the alt-right has guns / armed militia. Because people in the Anti-fa movement typically live in a liberal gun restricted area . Edited July 9, 2018 by paxrom Quote
jacee Posted July 9, 2018 Report Posted July 9, 2018 (edited) 17 hours ago, paxrom said: LOLS yeah okay, I guess we're so evil the rest of you all must really hate us. We'll go away now. Not sure if I'm talking to a communist Russian or not but I'll just assume you're anti-capitalist because you don't enjoy free-market. NOPE wrong again and please don't joke about this, I have many veteran friends going through their inner demons trying to keep it from consuming them. Often suicide seems like a quick escape. It's not for the reason you stated. It's because of the isolation they feel when they get home with nobody understanding the experiences that they been through. There's been much work done of helping veterans to connect and support one another. Actually talk to a vets before you disgrace your self with utter bullshit from Russia please. "Russia"... lol. No, just a Canadian who doesn't buy into US propaganda. I believe in free enterprise, with regulation to prevent PREDATORY capitalism. I don't believe you read my link. I have talked to vets. Some Canadian vets are well aware of what industrial developments they were 'protecting' in Afghanistan. We paid their salaries to act as security for industry! Predatory capitalism ... privatizing profits and socializing costs worldwide! BTW ... your English has some oddities. Are you Russian? Edited July 9, 2018 by jacee BTW Quote
GostHacked Posted July 9, 2018 Report Posted July 9, 2018 20 hours ago, Zeitgeist said: Good point, Ghosthacked. The U.S. has created a refugee crisis of its own in North America that Canada has had to clean up as migrants cross from the U.S. These points should not need to be made. But when people troll the boards with trolling like information and styled posts, it needs to be addressed. Facts don't matter to some here, and will post Canada because they think the board needs a balance in shit posts. Quote
eyeball Posted July 9, 2018 Report Posted July 9, 2018 6 hours ago, paxrom said: You'd be surprise the alt-right and anti-fa are going at each other every chance they get. The only thing funny is that only the alt-right has guns / armed militia. Because people in the Anti-fa movement typically live in a liberal gun restricted area . I guess it goes without saying which side the government is on. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
paxamericana Posted July 9, 2018 Author Report Posted July 9, 2018 (edited) 4 hours ago, jacee said: Predatory capitalism ... privatizing profits and socializing costs worldwide! What's wrong with protecting and promoting us interest? Its no big secret. Its even on the state department website. "Our mission is to engage U.S. government resources to assist and advocate for U.S. business interests abroad, strengthen intellectual property enforcement, promote a vibrant ecosystem for entrepreneurship and innovation, and ensure U.S. private sector concerns are integrated into our foreign and economic policy." https://www.state.gov/e/eb/cba/ Just about every country does this...you think Russia and China are any better? If anything they're even worse than us. They don't have respect for human rights. If you want to have a ethics discussion about promoting self interest then start a post. Edited July 9, 2018 by paxrom 1 Quote
paxamericana Posted July 9, 2018 Author Report Posted July 9, 2018 4 hours ago, jacee said: BTW ... your English has some oddities. Are you Russian? Yes I am Russian Troll bot 3000. Quote
Argus Posted July 9, 2018 Report Posted July 9, 2018 19 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said: If Russia did that, then either we need that strong military i described, or we try and stop them with international law. Win or lose, I think the legal response would be less costly in blood and treasure. That is not what my gut tells me but my brain says so. Russia has clearly demonstrated in both Georgia and Ukraine, that it could not care less what international laws say. That does not mean they're reckless. They evaluated the incompetence of the poorly equipped, poorly led Ukrainian and Georgian militaries and knew that they would have an easy walkover. The solution to such an attitude is to not make yourself an easy walkover. We don't need sufficient strength to beat Russia. We need sufficient strength to make pushing us out of the way expensive. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted July 9, 2018 Report Posted July 9, 2018 13 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said: Not to nitpick and God help me for not saying something againt the Liberals, but the Harper government pissed away the surplus left to them and buried us in deficit. Okay, so I am nitpicking. Very much so, and ignoring the context. Also ignoring that if the Liberals had been in power there also would have been a deficit. 1 Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted July 9, 2018 Report Posted July 9, 2018 (edited) 14 hours ago, paxrom said: Best way to find money to pay for the extra spending is to adopt free trade with us. Trump was trying to do the right thing and your PM talked behind his back. Not even man enough to face him and now decided to adopt further tariff to escalate. Only to appeal for political point whilst harming canadian interest. My understanding is that 99% of trade between the US and Canada is already free of tariffs. Trump's offer was not serious, and he has no power to bring about the end of US tariffs on protected products and goods anyway. High tariffs are jealously guarded by congress, especially on particular US agricultural products. Also jealously protected by congress are the enormous agricultural subsidies which provide you with milk lakes and butter mountains you are desperately trying to offload. By the way, that famous press conference during which Trudeau 'talked behind your back' was, uh, a press conference. I don't think you talk behind someone's back by giving a press conference. Further, he did not say one new thing at that conference that he had no previously said numerous times before in public. Edited July 9, 2018 by Argus 1 Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Army Guy Posted July 9, 2018 Report Posted July 9, 2018 16 hours ago, eyeball said: Is overthrowing the government really out of the question? Can you ever imagine a time when that might be necessary? I mean, I've been listening to conservatives express their concern about how communists have taken over our government for years, decades in fact. You along with many around here have been talking about the need to ramp up military spending to defend ourselves against communists abroad but by many accounts over half our country is already in the hands of commies. Its pretty hard to take the concern about Russian and Chinese commies when you're literally drowning in commies already. Again I ask, exactly wtf are you waiting for, permission? Why would you need that? Things must be quite around the old tree today, you even got a sense of humor I see, the bad man with the chain saw must be on holidays is he.... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Army Guy Posted July 9, 2018 Report Posted July 9, 2018 15 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said: The status quo is an expensive token. Currently, the Canadian Forces are in no position to defend this country. Afganistan damaged the army. I don't recall any mission that inflicted as many psychological casualties as that. Even the Great War did not have that great an impact. As for cyber attacks, terrorism etc, they are police matters. To make a proper change to our Defence Policy, a government would need to propose it and then call an election and run on that issue. They cannot simply stand in the House of Commons one day and yell "surprise." It would most likely occur in the budget and then ask the GG for an election. Do you see a way for the government to win that election? As for politicians, getting re-elected is a measure of how democracy is working. It is their job to do what their employers want and that isn't easy. In the infantry, a soldier has a single person giving them orders. An MP has 20 million people giving them orders and they are conflicting. Everyone thinks they are your boss and pre-judge you, believing you are a liar and a thief. Inspite of that, you work 100 hour weeks, never see your family and leave office poorer than when you entered. (end of rant 2). It is an expensive token, but one that has to be paid, in order to defend this nation and it's citizens. The CF has not been able to defend this country for dozens of years, and yet it's members work 24 hours a day , 7 days a week to ensure we do have some sort of defense....Afghanistan gave us what little equipment we have today, not much else was purchased for the military for use outside of Afghanistan, exception was those SAR aircraft that Justin purchased. PTSD comes in many forms and has many names, but to suggest that WWI, WWII, Korea produce less numbers of phycological injuries as Afghanistan is Crazy talk...our numbers don't even compare all one has to do is goggle that shit..... JTF-2 is Canada's only anti terrorist unit, it took over from the RCMP in the 90's , as for CYBER, their are military, and CISS, and RCMP units each doing it's thing tracking different aspects of cyber space. One does not have to have an election to change defense policy, or white papers. all that needs to happen is the will to change it, Defense policy is changing all the time....Are you sure you have researched any of this.... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Army Guy Posted July 9, 2018 Report Posted July 9, 2018 15 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said: Not to nitpick and God help me for not saying something againt the Liberals, but the Harper government pissed away the surplus left to them and buried us in deficit. Okay, so I am nitpicking. Perhaps you can provide a source ? Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Army Guy Posted July 9, 2018 Report Posted July 9, 2018 15 hours ago, turningrite said: I think it reasonable to expect others to rationally outline and explain their objections to posts on this site. I believe "WTF" to constitute an uncivil and intellectually irrelevant critique, and I think it pretty fair to state that's a fact. If you have something coherent to offer, you're free to do so. Otherwise, you've lost this debate. Your quit right and I apologize for my rude remarks...that being said one should also fact check his debating points and provide a source , to avoid confusion , so the reader can confirm facts, provide context to the posters thoughts and ideas, it also further educates the poster and the reader on the subject.... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
GostHacked Posted July 9, 2018 Report Posted July 9, 2018 2 hours ago, paxrom said: What's wrong with protecting and promoting us interest? Its no big secret. Its even on the state department website. "Our mission is to engage U.S. government resources to assist and advocate for U.S. business interests abroad, strengthen intellectual property enforcement, promote a vibrant ecosystem for entrepreneurship and innovation, and ensure U.S. private sector concerns are integrated into our foreign and economic policy." What business interest is there in Syria, and why would the USA steal it from them? Quote
turningrite Posted July 9, 2018 Report Posted July 9, 2018 (edited) 41 minutes ago, Army Guy said: Your quit right and I apologize for my rude remarks...that being said one should also fact check his debating points and provide a source , to avoid confusion , so the reader can confirm facts, provide context to the posters thoughts and ideas, it also further educates the poster and the reader on the subject.... It's my recollection that you reacted to my statement that Canada should become a militarily neutral country, like Sweden, Switzerland, or, as I've noted in some other posts, Mexico. In a recent column the Toronto Star writer Thomas Walkom discusses the usefulness of NATO in a post-Soviet environment and whether Canada has any legitimate role to play in remaining in the alliance (link 1 below). Otherwise, though, where do Canada's strategic interests rest? No country is likely to invade us due to our proximity to the U.S., whether or not we maintain substantial military capabilities. The U.S., in fact, is the only foreign country ever since Britain defeated France on the Plains of Abraham to invade what we now consider to be Canadian territory, and that was more than 200 years ago. Canada's 1867 Confederation was formed at least in part to thwart the possibility of an American takeover in the aftermath of the Civil War. If Trump wants to bluster and insult, let him do so, but why play into his game? The Europeans are getting fed up and are discussing what amounts to a 'Plan B' alternative to NATO. France's Macron proposes the creation of a new EU security force capable of confronting Russia, although the UK remains, at least for now and perhaps due to the Brexit outcome, more attached to the NATO model, which Macron's model seems intended to replace (see link 2 below). If Trump pushes too hard, he may well see traditional American allies abandon NATO altogether. Where, then, will Canada stand? Better, I think to use abandonment of the American-designed model as leverage while we can. https://www.thestar.com/opinion/star-columnists/2018/07/05/what-is-the-point-of-nato.html https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-41403394 Edited July 9, 2018 by turningrite Quote
paxamericana Posted July 9, 2018 Author Report Posted July 9, 2018 (edited) 38 minutes ago, GostHacked said: What business interest is there in Syria, and why would the USA steal it from them? Not business, more like preventing iran from forming a land bridge to the Mediteranean sea. Word on the street is trump will try to make a deal with russia to keep iran out of syria allowing the us to withdraw. Edited July 9, 2018 by paxrom Quote
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