America's new world order

[paxamericana]

The 2018 national defense strategy. 

Indo-pacific region is priority theater

Navy reliant force

Modernizing nuclear deterrence for supersonic and direct energy laser

Cyber and Space force. 

Establish insurgency war fighting skill as part of infantry core competency 

Re-affirm commitment to allies and build new relationships. 

Courtesy of our lorde and savior.

2018-National-Defense-Strategy-Summary.pdf

[Jimwd]

31 minutes ago, paxrom said:

The 2018 national defense strategy. 

Indo-pacific region is priority theater

Navy reliant force

Modernizing nuclear deterrence for supersonic and direct energy laser

Cyber and Space force. 

Establish insurgency war fighting skill as part of infantry core competency 

Re-affirm commitment to allies and build new relationships. 

Courtesy of our lorde and savior.

2018-National-Defense-Strategy-Summary.pdf

American fascism 

[paxamericana]

Jimmmm where have you been all my life. 

[paxamericana]

Total badass.... our uk brothers are having a go. come join us canucks. 

Killed 3 guys with a hammer inside underground tunnel. 

https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2018/06/19/british-special-forces-soldier-killed-six-taliban-in-pitch-black-viet-cong-style-tunnel-fight/

Edited June 21, 2018 by paxrom

[Guest]

What was he doing with a claw hammer?  Maybe thinking that if he didn't catch the Taliban, he could do a spot of carpentry?

[paxamericana]

2 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

What was he doing with a claw hammer?  Maybe thinking that if he didn't catch the Taliban, he could do a spot of carpentry?

our special ops guy sometimes carried tomahawk... guess the guy thought he might have to dig his way out if the tunnel collapsed. 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, paxrom said:

our special ops guy sometimes carried tomahawk... guess the guy thought he might have to dig his way out if the tunnel collapsed. 

Most of the troops I was with carried a bottle opener...

[betsy]

Boy.....what's happening under Trump does indeed looks to be a new world order developing.    It's developing fast, too.  I suppose he's trying to accomplish as much as he can.

His thumb is everywhere.  Middle East.   Asia.  Europe.

Of course, like anything new - you'll first have to sweep out the old.

Edited June 26, 2018 by betsy

[BubberMiley]

It's a little surprising that so many people are excited about seeing the rise of the Russian mob.

[Michael Hardner]

1 minute ago, BubberMiley said:

It's a little surprising that so many people are excited about seeing the rise of the Russian mob.

Also strange that the previous world order was planned and led by American elites, military and industry working together for [ostensibly] mutual benefit and it's Americans who are now dismantling that same order. 

[bush_cheney2004]

2 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Also strange that the previous world order was planned and led by American elites, military and industry working together for [ostensibly] mutual benefit and it's Americans who are now dismantling that same order. 

 

What Americans giveth...Americans can taketh away.

Canada or any other nation can step up and carry the "post WW2 burden" whenever ready, but I don't expect much.

[Michael Hardner]

1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

1) What Americans giveth...Americans can taketh away.

2) Canada or any other nation can step up and carry the "post WW2 burden" whenever ready, but I don't expect much.

1) Yes, very true. I am more curious, I suppose, about the calculus that bundled foreign aid, trade deals and military cooperation in the past and what the new calculus is.

2) Yes.  Again, I don't understand the calculus and wonder how much Canada's failure to live up to obligations figure into it.  I don't think we will have an answer to that anytime soon.

[bush_cheney2004]

Just now, Michael Hardner said:

1) Yes, very true. I am more curious, I suppose, about the calculus that bundled foreign aid, trade deals and military cooperation in the past and what the new calculus is.

2) Yes.  Again, I don't understand the calculus and wonder how much Canada's failure to live up to obligations figure into it.  I don't think we will have an answer to that anytime soon.

 

1)  The first step is to realize that the polarized Cold War world went away 25 years ago, and that old solutions will not address new challenges/opportunities.   It is healthy to stop thinking of America as the leader of rules based order and economic hegemony.   China was never part of the deal anyway.

2) The calculus changes started long before Trump's noisy arrival...lots of time and energy was wasted on "climate change" instead.

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, BubberMiley said:

It's a little surprising that so many people are excited about seeing the rise of the Russian mob.

I'm not surprised in the least given how openly blase so many people are about authoritarianism these days.

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

1)  The first step is to realize that the polarized Cold War world went away 25 years ago, and that old solutions will not address new challenges/opportunities.   It is healthy to stop thinking of America as the leader of rules based order and economic hegemony.   China was never part of the deal anyway.

2) The calculus changes started long before Trump's noisy arrival...lots of time and energy was wasted on "climate change" instead.

1) MM hm.  Refactoring then.

2) 25 years or so, yes.  

[paxamericana]

3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1) Yes, very true. I am more curious, I suppose, about the calculus that bundled foreign aid, trade deals and military cooperation in the past and what the new calculus is.

2) Yes.  Again, I don't understand the calculus and wonder how much Canada's failure to live up to obligations figure into it.  I don't think we will have an answer to that anytime soon.

His calculus is America first.....

[Michael Hardner]

1 minute ago, paxrom said:

His calculus is America first.....

That was also the old calculus.  It's ok, Bush Cheney has provided the correct answer already.

[paxamericana]

6 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

That was also the old calculus.  It's ok, Bush Cheney has provided the correct answer already.

Exactly it hasn't change . Trump is just more noisy about it. 

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, paxrom said:

Exactly it hasn't change . Trump is just more noisy about it. 

It hasn't ?  Lots of things seem to be changing.  Why don't you look at BC's answers as he's a few steps ahead it seems.

[paxamericana]

42 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

It hasn't ?  Lots of things seem to be changing.  Why don't you look at BC's answers as he's a few steps ahead it seems.

Uh im not trying to bicker with you. Simply stating the obvious, america first. He is doing it his way. But the core calculus remains the same.

[Bonam]

6 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

1)  The first step is to realize that the polarized Cold War world went away 25 years ago, and that old solutions will not address new challenges/opportunities.   It is healthy to stop thinking of America as the leader of rules based order and economic hegemony.   China was never part of the deal anyway.

It's true that the cold war ended 27 years ago, but America benefited from being the center of a worldwide "rules based order" and being the "economic hegemon". America certainly has no obligation to fulfill this role, but abdicating on this role so long as it is still capable of fulfilling it is not likely to be in America's benefit. While the costs of maintaining the necessary military and diplomatic institutions are certainly high, the benefits are even higher.

But perhaps America is just tired and wants to fade quietly (well, loudly with Trump at the head) into the background, like Europe did after the world wars. The interesting thing is that Europe got tired after millions of dead, cities destroyed, empires shattered... but America basically just got tired because it dropped from being unquestionably the best at everything to maybe having some rivals in certain things. Manufacturing can now maybe be done comparably well and slightly cheaper elsewhere. End of the world! The whining over trade deficits is particularly pathetic... stop whining and start building more things that other people want to buy! 

America today is like a player giving up at monopoly because it's used to having every property set and every hotel, but a rival finally managed to build their first house. 

[paxamericana]

25 minutes ago, Bonam said:

It's true that the cold war ended 27 years ago, but America benefited from being the center of a worldwide "rules based order" and being the "economic hegemon". America certainly has no obligation to fulfill this role, but abdicating on this role so long as it is still capable of fulfilling it is not likely to be in America's benefit. While the costs of maintaining the necessary military and diplomatic institutions are certainly high, the benefits are even higher.

But perhaps America is just tired and wants to fade quietly (well, loudly with Trump at the head) into the background, like Europe did after the world wars. The interesting thing is that Europe got tired after millions of dead, cities destroyed, empires shattered... but America basically just got tired because it dropped from being unquestionably the best at everything to maybe having some rivals in certain things. Manufacturing can now maybe be done comparably well and slightly cheaper elsewhere. End of the world! The whining over trade deficits is particularly pathetic... stop whining and start building more things that other people want to buy! 

America today is like a player giving up at monopoly because it's used to having every property set and every hotel, but a rival finally managed to build their first house. 

It's not that we are whining about it, it's more like we're doing something about it. We're addressing these trade imbalances that have long existed because of our generosity. Free trade is good for everyone. It makes you less susceptible to China's trade practices as seen in the Indo-pacific where they're economically and millitarily enslaving their neighbors. 

For security matter, as outline in the 2018 defense strategy, we're addressing our competitors through diplomatic,economic and military means, by engaging with the world not cowering away like Obama. We're constantly engaging with our allies and new partner, reassuring them of our joint security commitment. 

Make no mistake, America is not giving up it's perch. 

[Bonam]

2 minutes ago, paxrom said:

It's not that we are whining about it, it's more like we're doing something about it. We're addressing these trade imbalances that have long existed because of our generosity. Free trade is good for everyone. It makes you less susceptible to China's trade practices as seen in the Indo-pacific where they're economically and millitarily enslaving their neighbors. 

Yes, free trade IS good for everyone. But the US is pulling out of free trade deals and slapping on tariffs left and right. Restricted trade forces smaller nations to be more reliant upon large neighbors like Russia and China. The US is undermining its international position and playing into the hands of its rivals. 

Quote

For security matter, as outline in the 2018 defense strategy, we're addressing our competitors through diplomatic,economic and military means, by engaging with the world not cowering away like Obama. We're constantly engaging with our allies and new partner, reassuring them of our joint security commitment. 

Many of these allies don't seem particularly re-assured, in case you haven't noticed. 

[paxamericana]

13 minutes ago, Bonam said:

Yes, free trade IS good for everyone. But the US is pulling out of free trade deals and slapping on tariffs left and right. Restricted trade forces smaller nations to be more reliant upon large neighbors like Russia and China. The US is undermining its international position and playing into the hands of its rivals. 

Many of these allies don't seem particularly re-assured, in case you haven't noticed. 

If you look at the real reason we have tariff, Canada and the EU has been dragging their foot. Someone testified that the real reason behind tariff is to address China's predatory trade practices. China has been trying to sell cheap high quality steel they stole (intellectual property) back to america. They're doing it by importing it to Canada and many of the other countries and re branding it as non Chinese steel. 

Did you just not see how much our defense spending has increased? This is the largest defense spending EVER, in history. Not to mention this is technically peacetime. We're committed to NATO and the alliances, we're holding many multilateral military exercises from Rim pac to the freedom of navigation mission. Now Britain and France are joining us in the indo-pacific along with New Zealand and Australia to sail through the China nine dash line claims. 

Trump was trying to get Nato to pay more for their own defense spending and they started to. 

There's short term setback because everyone do not want to change the status quo, but america is doing this for the greater long term good. America is leading by example as it has always done.

Edited June 26, 2018 by paxrom

[bush_cheney2004]

34 minutes ago, Bonam said:

Yes, free trade IS good for everyone. But the US is pulling out of free trade deals and slapping on tariffs left and right. Restricted trade forces smaller nations to be more reliant upon large neighbors like Russia and China. The US is undermining its international position and playing into the hands of its rivals.

 

The US will always have an international position, but it doesn't have to be the same as before.   Trade and immigration issues have impacted other nations as well, so it is not just an American phenom.   Example: The U.K. voted to leave the fractious EU (another post WW2 relic) long before Trump was elected.

President Trump will not be able to unravel the entire status quo, but he has exposed the game for what it is, and how much it costs.  Even Monopoly games come to an end.

I find it interesting than many still want America to continue paying more in blood and treasure because it is good for America's "position", while in reality it is very good for those many "smaller nations".   Canada created an economic/military dependence on the U.S. that is larger than any other nation's, but it cannot assume the future will be the same as the past.

Trump's populist success is just a sympton of U.S. domestic and foreign policy problems that have festered for years.