eyeball Posted May 18, 2018 Report Posted May 18, 2018 1 hour ago, Goddess said: According to Islam, he was. Bully for Islam, since when did it trump our criminal code and the human right's and war crimes conventions we signed onto? Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Goddess Posted May 18, 2018 Report Posted May 18, 2018 5 minutes ago, dialamah said: Yawn. You cry about poor girls forced to wear hijabs/niqabs/get married by their parents, but are only too happy to pillory boys whose parents are no less influential. You also advocate for the breaking of our own laws on how we treat our citizens and agreements we've made about the treatment of child soldiers; how is that any different than an Islamic country imposing punishments on non-Muslim citizens, just because they aren't Muslims? Double standards in applying laws is not a practice I want Canada to follow. Yet, you have no problem letting Muslims play both sides. I'm just saying - let them make the choice - which the Khadr's did. They CHOSE to not live under our progresive treatment. You're the one advocating that Muslims should be able to do whatever they want - drift back and forth between the two worlds, acording to whatever benefits them the most at the time, AND pay terrorists millions of dollars. You're the one with the double standards. Quote "There are two different types of people in the world - those who want to know and those who want to believe." ~~ Friedrich Nietzsche ~~
Goddess Posted May 18, 2018 Report Posted May 18, 2018 1 minute ago, eyeball said: Bully for Islam, since when did it trump our criminal code and the human right's and war crimes conventions we signed onto? Since we allow them to drift back and forth between barbarism and progressiveness, using both to their advantage. They want to kill without impugnity AND be protected from the consequences. I do not agree. Quote "There are two different types of people in the world - those who want to know and those who want to believe." ~~ Friedrich Nietzsche ~~
eyeball Posted May 18, 2018 Report Posted May 18, 2018 1 minute ago, Goddess said: Since we allow them to drift back and forth between barbarism and progressiveness, using both to their advantage. They want to kill without impugnity AND be protected from the consequences. I do not agree. Were you a government prosecutor arguing against Khadr by any chance? If so it should be painfully obvious why the SCC kicked Canada's ass so soundly. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
dialamah Posted May 18, 2018 Report Posted May 18, 2018 5 minutes ago, Goddess said: Yet, you have no problem letting Muslims play both sides. I'm just saying - let them make the choice - which the Khadr's did. They CHOSE to not live under our progresive treatment. You're the one advocating that Muslims should be able to do whatever they want - drift back and forth between the two worlds, acording to whatever benefits them the most at the time, AND pay terrorists millions of dollars. You're the one with the double standards. Omar did not make the choice; his parents made the choice for him, a fact you continue to ignore. Your position would be consistent if you also advocated tossing young women out of Canada because, as a teenager, they wore the niqab or hijab because their parents forced them too. Yeah, I think its a shame that Khadr got $10 million dollars because the previous government failed to follow our laws, another fact you continue to ignore. Quote
eyeball Posted May 18, 2018 Report Posted May 18, 2018 Just now, dialamah said: Omar did not make the choice; his parents made the choice for him, a fact you continue to ignore. Its pretty effing sad when people who lambaste a primitive religious view about what constitutes adulthood also choose to agree with that view and actually hold it up as evidence of something. Why is Goddess so intent on seeing that the adults in Omar Khadr's life were/are never charged with indoctrinating a child soldier? Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
dialamah Posted May 18, 2018 Report Posted May 18, 2018 (edited) 24 minutes ago, eyeball said: Its pretty effing sad when people who lambaste a primitive religious view about what constitutes adulthood also choose to agree with that view and actually hold it up as evidence of something. Why is Goddess so intent on seeing that the adults in Omar Khadr's life were/are never charged with indoctrinating a child soldier? Yeah. Both the US and Canada fail miserably at protecting child soldiers as laid out in UN Declaration 1261. We sign on to these agreements but we do whatever we want, including using these kids for intelligence gathering when we find them, rather than taking them out of the conflict. I condemn the Khadrs for their actions that put their son in harm's way. I condemn the government that failed to uphold the rights of both a child and a citizen of Canada. I don't find either of these behaviors at all conscionable. I don't care to scapegoat Omar while ignoring both his parents' actions and the inaction of our own government. Edited May 18, 2018 by dialamah Quote
Goddess Posted May 18, 2018 Report Posted May 18, 2018 25 minutes ago, dialamah said: Omar did not make the choice; his parents made the choice for him, a fact you continue to ignore. Your position would be consistent if you also advocated tossing young women out of Canada because, as a teenager, they wore the niqab or hijab because their parents forced them too. Yeah, I think its a shame that Khadr got $10 million dollars because the previous government failed to follow our laws, another fact you continue to ignore. Parents make choices for their children all the time. If a parent chooses to raise jihadiis, then let them eat the consequences of that. It's not even comparable to say deliberately raising your kids to be terrorist killers and hauling them off to a battlefield is the same as forcing them in a hijab. Smarten up. Quote Why is Goddess so intent on seeing that the adults in Omar Khadr's life were/are never charged with indoctrinating a child soldier? Actually I brought this up before on this forum. Why were his parents allowed to raise jihaddis and drag them off to the battlefields? Because there isn't one of you here that would ever allow the government to interfere in what a Muslim parent chooses for their children. I also asked why the family who did this to him is allowed to continue living in Canada, and continue promoting jihadi/terrorist ideals. Again, there isn't one of you here that would allow any governmental interference in Muslim beliefs. I'm not the one supporting parents who do this to their children. You support them by not allowing it happen, but advocating a completely "hands off" approach to Muslim extremism. Quote "There are two different types of people in the world - those who want to know and those who want to believe." ~~ Friedrich Nietzsche ~~
dialamah Posted May 18, 2018 Report Posted May 18, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Goddess said: Parents make choices for their children all the time. If a parent chooses to raise jihadiis, then let them eat the consequences of that. I would support that completely. Any parent(s) who take their kid to a war zone and put him into battle should face prosecution, in my opinion. I do not know why that doesn't happen. Quote It's not even comparable to say deliberately raising your kids to be terrorist killers and hauling them off to a battlefield is the same as forcing them in a hijab. You are right; killing people is very different than wearing a scarf on one's head or face. Still, we either acknowledge their influence on kids in all cases or in none. If we, as a society, believe kids are less able to make decisions and deny them "adult" rights in certain things such as choosing not to go to school, not able to vote, not able to drive or drink or smoke cigarettes, then how can we turn around and then declare them absolutely able to make a decision to go to war. 1 hour ago, Goddess said: Because there isn't one of you here that would ever allow the government to interfere in what a Muslim parent chooses for their children. Right. Hyperbole and bullshit. If I had my way, I would prevent parents from putting even a hijab on a girl under 18, because of the risk to health that I believe exists. I would do a lot more to ensure neither boys nor girls were circumcised; they could choose as adults. I would prevent parents from home-schooling their child if that home-schooling included religious indoctrination, whether Christian or Muslim. I would eliminate "religious" schools, Catholic, Christian, Jewish or Muslim. Having a different viewpoint about a teenager's culpability when he's been raised in an extremist family and then taken to an extremist country and expected to fight doesn't mean I automatically "approve" of terrorists, terrorism, extremist or even Islam or e everything Muslims teach their children. Thats a stupid assumption on your part and is the same "us against them", "black vs. white", "if you're not for me, you're against me" mentality that has (some) Muslims believing that non-Muslims do not even deserve to live. Quote I'm not the one supporting parents who do this to their children. You support them by not allowing it happen, but advocating a completely "hands off" approach to Muslim extremism. Do you really think blaming the parents for creating a teenage terrorist is "supporting" them? Edited May 18, 2018 by dialamah Quote
eyeball Posted May 18, 2018 Report Posted May 18, 2018 3 hours ago, Goddess said: Actually I brought this up before on this forum. Why were his parents allowed to raise jihaddis and drag them off to the battlefields? Bullshit I have repeatedly brought this up as well. The reason is simple, charging Omar Khadr's parents according to the international conventions that protect children would have opened an enormous can of worms relating to virtually everything about the illegal nature of the War on Terror including the war crimes and maltreatment of POWs we committed during it. Quote Because there isn't one of you here that would ever allow the government to interfere in what a Muslim parent chooses for their children. Bullshit. There's no excuse for your ignorant characterization of people who criticize our conduct and handling of Omar Khadr. BTW Goddess I can't help but notice that you're now suddenly referring to Muslim children. When, in your opinion, do Muslims stop being children and become adults? Somewhere between 9 and what exactly? Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
GostHacked Posted May 20, 2018 Report Posted May 20, 2018 On 5/18/2018 at 5:41 PM, eyeball said: Bullshit I have repeatedly brought this up as well. The reason is simple, charging Omar Khadr's parents according to the international conventions that protect children would have opened an enormous can of worms relating to virtually everything about the illegal nature of the War on Terror including the war crimes and maltreatment of POWs we committed during it. This is a very good point to bring up. It brought to light the extensive 'extraordinary rendition' by our neighbor to the south. And if that was exposed, then we would know for certainty (and we know it is a fact already) that torture is done to POWs and suspected terrorists by western nations is more wide spread that one understands. It essentially looks like hush money. Quote
eyeball Posted May 21, 2018 Report Posted May 21, 2018 8 hours ago, GostHacked said: This is a very good point to bring up. It brought to light the extensive 'extraordinary rendition' by our neighbor to the south. And if that was exposed, then we would know for certainty (and we know it is a fact already) that torture is done to POWs and suspected terrorists by western nations is more wide spread that one understands. It essentially looks like hush money. Well, Nazis are still being hunted down and brought to justice so perhaps our war criminals will still have to answer for their crimes one day too. It ain't over till its over as they say. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Army Guy Posted May 22, 2018 Report Posted May 22, 2018 On 5/17/2018 at 5:16 PM, Clubbob said: Inadmissible evidence since it was acquired through torture making those convictions moot so no he wasn't properly convicted. He was 15 when captured making him a child soldier. The SCC ruled that the government violated his s.7 charter rights when they questioned him after torture as well as refusing to bring him back to Canada. I will take The SCC's view over a random users opinion. Yes some of the evidence was inadmissible, and not used in a court of law, However in Omar case there was a pile of evidence WHICH was admissible, and DID convict him of MURDER of a US Military member, and some other crimes " those are facts not things i made up "goggle that shit" ....The fact that OMAR was held in detention and served his entire sentence and NOT released because of the convictions were seen as moot by the SCC by both sides of the border Has got to send YOU a message........or are you suggesting to me and the rest of the posters here that "anyone convicted in any makeshift legal system or kangaroo court system like some have suggested here can be sent to prison and expected to serve the sentence given.....without the US and Canadian justice system acting in ANY manner to secure his release .....How do you explain that OMAR was sent to prison and did his time.....i guess the SCC opinion is moot here is it not....it did not help Omar in any way. Under the Geneva Convention, Omar was a classified as a unlawful combatant, check the court documents, no where do they mention he was a "Child soldier" Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
GostHacked Posted May 27, 2018 Report Posted May 27, 2018 On 5/22/2018 at 12:00 PM, Army Guy said: Yes some of the evidence was inadmissible, and not used in a court of law, However in Omar case there was a pile of evidence WHICH was admissible, and DID convict him of MURDER of a US Military member, and some other crimes " those are facts not things i made up "goggle that shit" ....The fact that OMAR was held in detention and served his entire sentence and NOT released because of the convictions were seen as moot by the SCC by both sides of the border Has got to send YOU a message........or are you suggesting to me and the rest of the posters here that "anyone convicted in any makeshift legal system or kangaroo court system like some have suggested here can be sent to prison and expected to serve the sentence given.....without the US and Canadian justice system acting in ANY manner to secure his release .....How do you explain that OMAR was sent to prison and did his time.....i guess the SCC opinion is moot here is it not....it did not help Omar in any way. Under the Geneva Convention, Omar was a classified as a unlawful combatant, check the court documents, no where do they mention he was a "Child soldier" Through enough torture I can get you to admit you killed John Lennon. Quote
Army Guy Posted May 30, 2018 Report Posted May 30, 2018 True enough torture sucks, even mild forms of torture he was subjected to, but the fact remains Omar was convicted by a court of law of murder and was sentenced to that crime, to which he served time in not only US federal prison, but Canadian prisons as well. Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
eyeball Posted June 1, 2018 Report Posted June 1, 2018 On 5/30/2018 at 3:39 PM, Army Guy said: True enough torture sucks, even mild forms of torture he was subjected to, but the fact remains Omar was convicted by a kangaroo court of law of murder and was sentenced to that crime, to which he served time in not only US federal prison, but Canadian prisons as well. FIFY. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Army Guy Posted June 2, 2018 Report Posted June 2, 2018 either way he still served time, and still has a criminal record does he not. Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
eyeball Posted June 2, 2018 Report Posted June 2, 2018 38 minutes ago, Army Guy said: either way he still served time, and still has a criminal record does he not. That only means squat to you and says a lot less about him. BTW, weren't you one of those soldiers who looked the the other way while our allies were buggering little boys? Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Army Guy Posted June 9, 2018 Report Posted June 9, 2018 (edited) millions of Canadians were glad Omar served time.....not just me.... weren't you one of those Canadians that stuck there heads in the sand while all of that played out, i mean what did you actually do, write to your MP, protest, drink another 6 pack.....That issue was brought to the medias attention by soldiers....not the government that was supposed to be looking after our interests or yours .....Canadians faked disgust for a few weeks then the media was on to something else that distracted Canadians ..and soldiers had to take matters into their own hands to have changes made.....not our government , nor Canadian citizens that are suppose to have our backs......just another example of how regular Canadian citizens like you eyeball failed our military once again....don't worry though soldiers are used to it... Edited June 9, 2018 by Army Guy Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
eyeball Posted June 9, 2018 Report Posted June 9, 2018 AFAIC only one of two things will ever get the governments attention - either regular Canadians pick up arms or soldiers put theirs down. You think they'd sic us on you or the other way around? Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
GostHacked Posted June 9, 2018 Report Posted June 9, 2018 On 5/20/2018 at 10:58 PM, eyeball said: Well, Nazis are still being hunted down and brought to justice so perhaps our war criminals will still have to answer for their crimes one day too. It ain't over till its over as they say. True, and the US's rocket program was built by former Nazis. I am sure that's conflicting in their stance against Nazis. Quote
GostHacked Posted June 9, 2018 Report Posted June 9, 2018 On 5/30/2018 at 6:39 PM, Army Guy said: True enough torture sucks, even mild forms of torture he was subjected to, but the fact remains Omar was convicted by a court of law of murder and was sentenced to that crime, to which he served time in not only US federal prison, but Canadian prisons as well. The fact of being convicted of a crime that was confessed under torture means that he gets a big payout. If you would say anything to stop the tortuer, then spent a decade in jail for something you did not do, I would suspect you would have a slight problem with it. Just because he served the time does not mean he actually murdered anyone. Soldiers do it all the time, but under the banner of a national flag while supporting the ruse that is the notion of fighting terrorism. But if this guy openly admits to ISIS terrorism, then let's get rid of him. Jail, then deportation. Quote
Army Guy Posted June 11, 2018 Report Posted June 11, 2018 On 6/8/2018 at 11:17 PM, eyeball said: AFAIC only one of two things will ever get the governments attention - either regular Canadians pick up arms or soldiers put theirs down. You think they'd sic us on you or the other way around? That's BS and you know it, on Ottawa university prof accused the DND of mishandling prisoners of war.....and got national and inter national access to media and all levels of government....that's one person.... The liberals live and breath polls..everything they do is based on polls... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Army Guy Posted June 11, 2018 Report Posted June 11, 2018 On 6/9/2018 at 2:25 PM, GostHacked said: The fact of being convicted of a crime that was confessed under torture means that he gets a big payout. If you would say anything to stop the tortuer, then spent a decade in jail for something you did not do, I would suspect you would have a slight problem with it. Just because he served the time does not mean he actually murdered anyone. Soldiers do it all the time, but under the banner of a national flag while supporting the ruse that is the notion of fighting terrorism. But if this guy openly admits to ISIS terrorism, then let's get rid of him. Jail, then deportation. He probably does have a problem with it, but there was dozens of other charges he could have been charged with and was not because the US wanted thatmurder charge....and yet the Canadian government did not charge him with anything....and we did not return him to Afghanistan to face any charges he committed there. According to the law he has been convicted of murder....according to the law he did do it , without a shadow of doubt.....that is how western law works right....I mean if there was doubt he would have been found innocent right....or do I have it all wrong, is Omar mounting some kind of court case for a another payday.... soldiers killing other soldiers is not murder those are inter national laws that most nations have adopted, soldiers killing anyone by mistake is not murder, soldiers killing anyone on purpose with intention that is murder.... Omar was not a soldier, he was a terrorist plain and simple... We can't do that in Canada either, we already had a case of this a known terrorist that was in Syria fighting for ISIL admitted his guilt on a media outlet....he is now going through the liberals re programing project where he gets to listen to katty langand nickel back all day and all night.....In reality Omar was a rare event, convicting someone of terrorism over seas is next to impossible, unless you catch him reds handed....If it was easy why does a lot of western nations kill their terrorist citizens.... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
eyeball Posted June 11, 2018 Report Posted June 11, 2018 1 hour ago, Army Guy said: That's BS and you know it, on Ottawa university prof accused the DND of mishandling prisoners of war.....and got national and inter national access to media and all levels of government....that's one person.... Who? In any case I still say soldiers saying wtf and refusing to fight alongside some of the most amoral people on the planet will get everyone's attention a lot harder. Quote The liberals live and breath polls..everything they do is based on polls... So what, they all do that. We're selling weapons to dictators. FFS. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
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