The Great Deception

[John Prewett]

"CHURCH" according to the NT means the people who belong to Jesus Christ. "His" people. Book of Acts reveals The Church.
A GREAT deception took place in 380ad.

The Roman Emperor empowered a religious group whose binding doctrine was Trinitarianism ....
and
this Trinitarian group claimed to be "The Church"
and
the Roman establishment [bunch of assorted Pagans]
claimed this newly empowered CULT was "The Church."

So from 380ad onward, the worldly have been deceived as to who and where and what is "The Church".

All the modern christianish “churches” [“cults, denominations”] evolved from the imitation “church” empowered by the Roman Empire in 380 AD.   

The foundation the Church rest upon is the confession Peter made …. Not Peter personally.    Much NT scripture shows the one and only head of Jesus’s Church is Jesus.    Papist and Trinitarians don’t believe scripture.  They believe various interpretations of scripture … and that is not the same as believing/heeding scripture. 

 Famous example of putting interpretation of scripture over scripture:

“call no man father”

 Roman Catholicism will give you scads of interpretive pretext to NOT heed the simple “call no man father”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_church_of_the_Roman_Empire 

Nicene "Trinitarian" ‘christianity’ became the state ‘church’ of the Roman Empire with the

Edict of Thessalonica in 380 CE, when Emperor Theodosius I made it the Empire's sole authorized religion.

[Boges]

I think it's common knowledge that the Roman Catholic Church made up their own doctrine. Thus the reason for a reformation. 

It's the biggest irony that the Christian church became the exact thing that Jesus preached against. 

Many Christian sects use the NT  interpretation of Jesus, and only that, as their guiding principals.

Edited February 1, 2018 by Boges

[John Prewett]

22 hours ago, Boges said:

..............

............. the Christian church became the exact thing that Jesus preached against. 

............

The Church (Jesus's people) did not become what Jesus preached against.   

OTOH,   what is called organized religion DID become what Jesus preached against. 

 

The religious groups of TODAY that are commonly called "organized religion" ... (RomCatholic,Orthodox,Lutheran, Anglican, Prysbyterian, Methodist, Baptist,Mormon, SDAdventist, JehWitness etc etc etc)  are as the synagogue of the NT revealed era.

As Jesus's people HAD TO COME OUT of the synagogues, so Jesus's people of TODAY will have to come out of what is commonly called organized religion. 

The clergy of today's organized religion are NOT modern day NT Apostles. Today's clergy of organized religion are modern day scribes and pharisees.



Hebrews 13:13 Therefore let us go forth to Him outside the camp, bearing the reproach that He bore.

We must go to Jesus OUTSIDE THE CAMP .... outside the "camp" of what is commonly called organized religion. 


22 His parents said this, because they feared the Jews. For the Jews had already agreed that if anyone confessed that He was the Christ, he would be put out of the synagogue. John 9:22 
42 Yet many of the rulers also believed in Him. But because of the Pharisees they did not confess Him, lest they be put out of the synagogue. John 12:42 
2 They will put you out of the synagogues. Yes, the time is coming that whoever kills you will think that he is offering a service to God. John 16:2

 

 

 

Edited February 2, 2018 by John Prewett

[blackbird]

On 2/1/2018 at 5:04 AM, John Prewett said:

"CHURCH" according to the NT means the people who belong to Jesus Christ. "His" people. Book of Acts reveals The Church.
A GREAT deception took place in 380ad.

The Roman Emperor empowered a religious group whose binding doctrine was Trinitarianism ....
and
this Trinitarian group claimed to be "The Church"
and
the Roman establishment [bunch of assorted Pagans]
claimed this newly empowered CULT was "The Church."

So from 380ad onward, the worldly have been deceived as to who and where and what is "The Church".

All the modern christianish “churches” [“cults, denominations”] evolved from the imitation “church” empowered by the Roman Empire in 380 AD.   

The foundation the Church rest upon is the confession Peter made …. Not Peter personally.    Much NT scripture shows the one and only head of Jesus’s Church is Jesus.    Papist and Trinitarians don’t believe scripture.  They believe various interpretations of scripture … and that is not the same as believing/heeding scripture. 

 Famous example of putting interpretation of scripture over scripture:

“call no man father”

 Roman Catholicism will give you scads of interpretive pretext to NOT heed the simple “call no man father”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_church_of_the_Roman_Empire 

Nicene "Trinitarian" ‘christianity’ became the state ‘church’ of the Roman Empire with the

Edict of Thessalonica in 380 CE, when Emperor Theodosius I made it the Empire's sole authorized religion.

Most churches believe in the trinity.  That is what the King James Bible (1611) teaches.  The King James Bible is based on the Received Text., which are the Greek New Testament manuscripts available at the time the first English language bibles were produced in the 1500s. 

Quote

The case for the Triunity of God is even stronger in the New Testament. Here it can be unequivocally demonstrated the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God. Furthermore, the New Testament teaches us that these three names are not synonymous, but speak of three distinct and equal Persons.

(1) The Father is called God (John 6:27; 20:17; 1 Cor. 8:6; Gal. 1:1; Eph. 4:6; Phil. 2:11; 1 Pet. 1:2).

(2) Jesus Christ, the Son is declared to be God. His deity is proven by the divine names given to Him, by His works that only God could do (upholding all things, Col. 1:17; creation, Col. 1:16, John 1:3; and future judgment, John 5:27), by His divine attributes (eternality, John 17:5; omnipresence, Matt. 28:20; omnipotence, Heb. 1:3; omniscience, Matt. 9:4), and by explicit statements declaring His deity (John 1:1; 20:28; Titus 2:13; Heb. 1:8).

(3) The Holy Spirit is recognized as God. By comparing Peter’s comments in Acts 5:3 and 4, we see that in lying to the Holy Spirit (vs. 3), Ananias was lying to God (vs. 4). He has the attributes which only God can possess like omniscience (1 Cor. 2:10) and omnipresence (1 Cor. 6:19), and He regenerates people to new life (John 3:5-6, 8; Tit. 3:5), which must of necessity be a work of God for only God has the power of life. Finally, His deity is evident by the divine names used for the Spirit as “the Spirit of our God,” (1 Cor. 6:11), which should be understood as “the Spirit, who is our God.”  Unquote

The full article defending the trinity is here:

https://bible.org/article/trinity-triunity-god

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 6, 2018 by blackbird

[John Prewett]

8 hours ago, blackbird said:

Most churches believe in the trinity. ............

 

 

 

 

Most of the modern cults that evolved from the Trinitarian Roman State 'church' are Trinitarian.    

[John Prewett]

Trinitarianism is insidious.

Contending Jesus “IS” God seems to honor Jesus,

but actually is a refusal to abide in the word of Jesus who identified Himself as Son OF God

[John 10:36] and endorsed being identified as the Son OF God.  [Matt 16]

 

Christians contend Jesus is the Son OF God.

Trinitarians contend Jesus IS God.

 

See Matt 16 Peter's confession that Jesus endorsed.  

 

Listen to following: 

"Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God." 1 John 4:15 ......

 

"...I [Jesus] said, I am the Son of God"”    John 10:36

 

 

“And this is life eternal, that they should know thee the only true God, and him whom thou didst send, even Jesus Christ”              John 17:3

 

“Jesus said …. go unto my brothers, and say to them, I ascend unto my Father and your Father, and my God and your God”  John 20:17

 

TRINITARIANS put a stumbling block in the way of the blind [Muslims and Jews].

 

Trinitarianism is insidious.

 

  Contending Jesus “IS” God seems to honor Jesus,

 

  but actually is a refusal to abide in the word of Jesus who identified Himself as Son OF God.

 

By contending and demanding confession that Jesus IS God,  TRINITARIANS have been putting stumbling block in front of Muslims and Jews since the state church of the Roman Empire was established on 27 February 380 with the Edict of Thessalonica, when Emperor Theodosius I made Nicene [TRINITARIAN] "Christianity" the Empire's sole authorized religion. 

 

The Roman empire empowered the TRINITARIAN imitation "church" that the deceived world has thought the real Church ever since.

 

With the Edict of Milan of 313, Constantine I gave/established tolerance for Christianity, thus at this time Christians ceased being deemed enemies of the state. 

 

The Trinitarian cult, imposed on the Roman empire in 380ad caused Christians to be persecuted as “heretics.”

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_church_of_the_Roman_Empire

 

[OftenWrong]

I say that making Jesus the same as God detracts from his message, that is, a better way for people to live according to some basic tenets. Mercy, love, forgiveness... recognizing that we all make mistakes, no one is pure or always right, we are all "sinners". It's a very simple message, and is all that really matters coming out of the Bible. The rest is just noise, noise, noise. Taking that too far, you risk losing sight of what matters. You might think you are right, that you "deserve heaven". That too undermines the message, since it leads to arrogance, and all the history of the bad things done by the Church. It is important to understand that Jesus was a man like us, because by making Jesus as God himself, we can never live that way.

Edited February 10, 2018 by OftenWrong
mistake :)

[betsy]

On 2/1/2018 at 8:04 AM, John Prewett said:

"CHURCH" according to the NT means the people who belong to Jesus Christ. "His" people. Book of Acts reveals The Church.

 

    His followers, is that Church - with Jesus as its Head.

 

Quote

 

Answer: Many people today understand the church as a building. This is not a biblical understanding of the church. The word “church” comes from the Greek word ekklesia which is defined as “an assembly” or “called-out ones.” The root meaning of “church” is not that of a building, but of people. It is ironic that when you ask people what church they attend, they usually identify a building. Romans 16:5 says “… greet the church that is in their house.” Paul refers to the church in their house—not a church building, but a body of believers.

The church is the body of Christ, of which He is the head. Ephesians 1:22-23 says, “And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.” The body of Christ is made up of all believers in Jesus Christ from the day of Pentecost (Acts chapter 2) until Christ’s return. The body of Christ is comprised of two aspects:

1) The universal church consists of all those who have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. “For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink” (1 Corinthians 12:13). This verse says that anyone who believes is part of the body of Christ and has received the Spirit of Christ as evidence. The universal church of God is all those who have received salvation through faith in Jesus Christ.

2) The local church is described in Galatians 1:1-2: “Paul, an apostle … and all the brothers with me, to the churches in Galatia.” Here we see that in the province of Galatia there were many churches—what we call local churches. A Baptist church, Lutheran church, Catholic church, etc., is not the church, as in the universal church—but rather is a local church, a local body of believers.

 

https://www.gotquestions.org/what-is-the-church.html

Edited February 12, 2018 by betsy

[betsy]

On 2/10/2018 at 6:01 AM, John Prewett said:

Trinitarianism is insidious.

Contending Jesus “IS” God seems to honor Jesus,

but actually is a refusal to abide in the word of Jesus who identified Himself as Son OF God

[John 10:36] and endorsed being identified as the Son OF God.  [Matt 16]

 

Christians contend Jesus is the Son OF God.

Trinitarians contend Jesus IS God.

 

There are so many verses in the Bible that show Jesus is none other but God incarnated - EMMANUEL (God among is).

Yes, He is introduced to us as the Son of God - thus we also refer to Him as the Son of God. 

 

It is hard to fathom the Three-in-One concept, after all we don't have the capacity to fully understand.

Edited February 12, 2018 by betsy

[betsy]

On 2/10/2018 at 6:01 AM, John Prewett said:

Listen to following: 

"Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God." 1 John 4:15 ......

 

"...I [Jesus] said, I am the Son of God"”    John 10:36

 

 

“And this is life eternal, that they should know thee the only true God, and him whom thou didst send, even Jesus Christ”              John 17:3

 

“Jesus said …. go unto my brothers, and say to them, I ascend unto my Father and your Father, and my God and your God”  John 20:17

 

 

Let's start with Isaiah 45 (long before Jesus came to us).  This is God talking:

 

The Lord, the Only Savior

¹⁸ For thus says the Lord,
Who created the heavens,
Who is God,
Who formed the earth and made it,
Who has established it,
Who did not create it in vain,
Who formed it to be inhabited:
“I am the Lord, and there is no other.

²¹ Tell and bring forth your case;
Yes, let them take counsel together.
Who has declared this from ancient time?
Who has told it from that time?
Have not I, the Lord?
And there is no other God besides Me,
A just God and a Savior;
There is none besides Me.

²² “Look to Me, and be saved,
All you ends of the earth!
For I am God, and there is no other.

 

Jesus is also Lord. 

 

Luke 2: 11 for today in the city of David there has been born for you a Savior, who is Christ the Lord.

 

Romans 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

1 Cor 8:6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.

  

There are more NT verse that says Jesus as Lord.

 

 

------------------------------

Isaiah 9

⁶ For unto us a Child is born,
Unto us a Son is given;
And the government will be upon His shoulder.
And His name will be called
Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

 

[betsy]

Still on Isaiah, long before Jesus was born:

 

Isaiah 44

There Is No Other God

⁶ “Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel,
And his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts:
‘I am the First and I am the Last;
Besides Me there is no God.

 

Compare with Revelation:

 

Revelation 1:17-18

¹⁷ And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. But He laid His right hand on me, saying to me,^[a] “Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last. ¹⁸ I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of Hades and of Death.

 

 

Revelation 2:8

The Persecuted Church

⁸ “And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write,

‘These things says the First and the Last, who was dead, and came to life:

 

 

To be continued......

Edited February 12, 2018 by betsy

[betsy]

On 2/1/2018 at 8:04 AM, John Prewett said:

 Trinitarians don’t believe scripture. 

 There is more to simply reading the Scriptures. 

[betsy]

On 2/10/2018 at 6:01 AM, John Prewett said:

Christians contend Jesus is the Son OF God.

Trinitarians contend Jesus IS God.

Speaking for myself - Jesus is BOTH!

Edited February 12, 2018 by betsy

[betsy]

Still with Isaiah.

 

Isaiah 44

Judah Will Be Restored

²⁴ Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer,
And He who formed you from the womb:
“I am the Lord, who makes all things,
Who stretches out the heavens all alone,
Who spreads abroad the earth by Myself;

 

Compare with:

 

John 1:3

³ All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.

 

Colossians 1

¹⁵ He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. ¹⁶ For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers.

 

Also, "Image of the invisible God."  

 

John 4:24

²⁴ God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

 

 

God is Spirit that's why He is invisible.......but Jesus is God, in the flesh.   All things that are attributed to God, are attributed to Jesus.

 

 

To be continued.......

 

Edited February 13, 2018 by betsy

[betsy]

John 1:1-3

The Eternal Word

 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. ² He was in the beginning with God. ³ All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.

 

John 8

¹⁹ Then they asked him, “Where is your father?”

“You do not know me or my Father,” Jesus replied. “If you knew me, you would know my Father also.”

 

Dispute over who Jesus is

²⁴ I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins.”

²⁵ “Who are you?” they asked.

“Just what I have been telling you from the beginning,” Jesus replied. ²⁶ “I have much to say in judgment of you. But he who sent me is trustworthy, and what I have heard from him I tell the world.”

²⁷ They did not understand that he was telling them about his Father. ²⁸ So Jesus said, “When you have lifted up^[a] the Son of Man, then you will know that I am he and that I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me. ²⁹ The one who sent me is with me; he has not left me alone, for I always do what pleases him.”

 

Jesus' Claims About Himself

⁵⁰ I am not seeking glory for myself; but there is one who seeks it, and he is the judge. ⁵¹ Very truly I tell you, whoever obeys my word will never see death.”

 

⁵⁴ Jesus replied, “If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me. ⁵⁵ Though you do not know him, I know him. If I said I did not, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and obey his word.

 

God seeks glorification.  Why would Jesus claim that God glorifies Him?  Why  would God glorify the Son, if they're not One and the Same?

 

Edited February 12, 2018 by betsy

[betsy]

John 10

³⁰ I and My Father are one.”

 

Renewed Efforts To stone Jesus

³¹ Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him. ³² Jesus answered them, “Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?”

³³ The Jews answered Him, saying, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God.”

 

The Jews understood what He's claiming Himself to be.  He wasn't claiming to be from God, or like God.

  He was claiming He is GOD!

 

 

 

Edited February 12, 2018 by betsy

[betsy]

John 14

⁹ Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?

¹⁰ Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works. ¹¹ Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 12, 2018 by betsy

[betsy]

John 20

Seeing and Believing

 

²⁷ Then He said to Thomas, “Reach your finger here, and look at My hands; and reach your hand here, and put it into My side. Do not be unbelieving, but believing.”

²⁸ And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”

²⁹ Jesus said to him, “Thomas,^[d] because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

 

Why would Thomas call Jesus his God?  Why didn't Jesus correct Thomas if Jesus isn't God?

 

Think for a minute there.  Why would Jesus let Thomas believe wrongly if Jesus isn't God?  Why would Jesus let him go on thinking He is God?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 12, 2018 by betsy

[betsy]

Philippians 2

⁵ Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, ⁶ who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, ⁷ but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men.

[betsy]

1 Timothy 3

¹⁶ And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:

God^[a] was manifested in the flesh,
Justified in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Preached among the Gentiles,
Believed on in the world,
Received up in glory.

Edited February 12, 2018 by betsy

[betsy]

Titus 2

¹³ looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, ¹⁴ who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works.

 

 

To be continued.......

[dialamah]

I thought the only relevant part of the Bible today was the New Testament, so why the cites from the OT?   If the OT can be used to prove Christian beliefs about Jesus/God/HS, then why not about gays, women and non-believers?

[betsy]

2 hours ago, dialamah said:

I thought the only relevant part of the Bible today was the New Testament, so why the cites from the OT?

Who told you that? 

Didn't Jesus cite from the Old Testament when He was debating, or stating a point?   I thought you said you've read the Bible?   So....why do you ask such question?

 

You're confused with some requirements that are no longer relevant because of the Messiah - like, the sacrificing of animals to atone for sins.

 

 

Quote

 

   If the OT can be used to prove Christian beliefs about Jesus/God/HS, then why not about gays, women and non-believers?

 

We don't have to use the Old Testament to show that homosexuality is a sin.  It's also  stated in the New Testament. 

[?Impact]

3 minutes ago, betsy said:

We don't have to use the Old Testament to show that homosexuality is a sin.  It's also  stated in the New Testament. 

I thought that Jesus was homosexual given his special relationship with John. The Scientologists also believe he was a pedophile.

[dialamah]

I suppose it boils down to being able to pick and choose what one wants to believe and prove it has God's approval.  The Bible has options for everyone. 

Edited February 13, 2018 by dialamah