Canada's Refugee System in Chaos

[taxme]

2 hours ago, Argus said:

This is absolutely true. They have no clue what letting in tens of thousands of migrants who call themselves refugees costs either. We're talking about people who, for the most part, have no job skills, little education and can't speak, read or write English or French. These people will be on welfare for decades. Years ago Border Services pegged the average cost of an UNSUCCESSFUL refugee claimant at $50,000.  They never gave the cost for the successful ones, but it's certainly higher. That's billions a year. The cost of admitting even one senior is estimated at $300,000, much of that in health care costs. And Trudeau doubled the number of seniors allowed to e sponsored to 10,000. That's another $3 billion per year. But you'll rarely ever seen this mentioned in the mainstream media, and never by politicians.

Chain migration needs to be halted. Allowing new immigrants later on to be allowed to bring in their older uncles and aunts and grandparents is costing the Canadian taxpayer's billions of our tax dollars every year to look after them especially when they get sick. I believe that after they have been here for so many years they get to become Canadian citizen's and can start to collect Old Age Pensions. That is a terrible waste and misuse of the taxpayer's tax dollars by our dear comrade leaders. There are Canadians who could use that money more than giving it away to strangers who contributed nothing to Canada but are being allowed to suck off our services for free. Enough already. The tax paying Canadians need to wake the hell up. It is your tax dollars that the stupid dumb ass politicians are blowing. The mainstream liberal media and our dear leaders will never mention this to you. Enough already. 

[Charles Anthony]

Folks,  

Avoid thread drift.  

[turningrite]

1 hour ago, Charles Anthony said:

Folks,  

Avoid thread drift.  

In general, I agree with you. However, immigration and refugee policy are inextricably linked in this country, not the least of which by a government that seems wedded to a program of extreme social engineering. For most of us, the biggest impacts are practical, including, for instance, the financial (i.e. taxation) costs entailed, higher housing costs and constrained access to vital services like health care. I believe the Fraser Institute has concluded that net social program costs (i.e. public benefits costs minus taxes paid) for the most recent generation of newcomers amount to over 30 billion dollars annually. This is roughly 60% of the amount being paid to support the old age security program, yet over the past couple decades we've been fed the rationale that large-scale immigration (including refugee intake) is necessary to fund an aging population. How's this working out for us? Is the government engaging in rational analysis on this issue? I believe an Australian government study concluded that from the perspective of demographics (an argument often raised in support of Canadian policies), large scale immigration is essentially a Ponzi scheme, whereby ever increasing numbers are required to have any significant demographic impact given that by the end of the second generation immigrants often reflect a demographic profile and fertility trends typical of the general population. I believe the current refugee debacle serves the government's agenda in that it is part of a broader policy approach. 

[Charles Anthony]

I deleted the thread drift.

23 minutes ago, turningrite said:

In general, 

You can not see the off-topic posts anymore.  

Carry on.

[Argus]

Here, in a nutshell, is a prime example of the problems we have with both our refugee system and our judicial system. A guy is suing the government for almost $60 million for violating his charter rights. He's an illegal immigrant who's been in detention for years while we've tried to deport him. He's also a career criminal. Oh ,in case you wonder who's paying for his lawsuit - that's us.

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/politics/stateless-man-jailed-for-seven-years-while-canada-tried-to-deport-him-sues-for-57-5-million/wcm/f0352a67-6a21-48a1-bc7f-2c2a64ec7aa0

[Goddess]

30 minutes ago, Argus said:

Here, in a nutshell, is a prime example of the problems we have with both our refugee system and our judicial system. A guy is suing the government for almost $60 million for violating his charter rights. He's an illegal immigrant who's been in detention for years while we've tried to deport him. He's also a career criminal. Oh ,in case you wonder who's paying for his lawsuit - that's us.

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/politics/stateless-man-jailed-for-seven-years-while-canada-tried-to-deport-him-sues-for-57-5-million/wcm/f0352a67-6a21-48a1-bc7f-2c2a64ec7aa0

Ali first claimed refugee status in Canada in 1986, arriving from the United States. The lawsuit acknowledges he provided authorities with a fake name before admitting his real one a week later.

 

I don't understand why we can't turn these people back at the border?  What's wrong with saying, "Look, we don't know who you are or where you're from and you refuse to tell us, so we're not letting you in."?  Then let him sue us on his own dime.

[Centerpiece]

And now those slippery Liberals are giving money to the cities under the guise of their Homeless Initiative - when in fact the cities will use a lot of the funding to offset the costs of housing all the refugees......without making it look that way.....

Quote

The new rules, unveiled Monday, will give cities leeway to spend money on local initiatives and experiments – so long as they can meet Ottawa’s goal of cutting in half the number of chronic homeless people in their midst...............................

The revamped homeless strategy, redubbed “Reaching Home,” will spend $2.1 billion over the next decade.

Link: http://aptnnews.ca/2018/06/11/liberals-target-indigenous-homelessness-in-revamped-funding-program/

[dialamah]

42 minutes ago, Centerpiece said:

under the guise of their Homeless Initiative - when in fact the cities will use a lot of the funding to offset the costs of housing all the refugees

Oops, I didn't read the article --- apparently, this is for indigenous people, and it is only your Conservative paranoia victim-mantle seeking that made it into the "OMG, REFUGEE". 

Still, even if your delusion were true -- if the refugees weren't housed, they'd be homeless ... so what's the problem?

Edited June 15, 2018 by dialamah

[Centerpiece]

11 hours ago, dialamah said:

Oops, I didn't read the article --- apparently, this is for indigenous people, and it is only your Conservative paranoia victim-mantle seeking that made it into the "OMG, REFUGEE". 

Still, even if your delusion were true -- if the refugees weren't housed, they'd be homeless ... so what's the problem?

Perhaps a little bit of paranoia - but well-founded in the habitual lies and deceit that the Trudeau/Wynne Liberals have indulged in. There is absolutely no problem - there's actual a necessity to resolve the refugee homeless problem........but these Liberals probably don't want to draw attention to the need to throw more money at a problem that they've created - so they'll get money to the cities in other ways. If you can't properly plan for - and fund - the intake of refugees, don't take them in.....you're playing with peoples' lives. For the Syrians, it's arguably no better being homeless in a completely strange country than it is being in a refugee camp with your own people. And now we've got thousands of illegal economic migrants on the public dole. 

[turningrite]

1 hour ago, Centerpiece said:

Perhaps a little bit of paranoia - but well-founded in the habitual lies and deceit that the Trudeau/Wynne Liberals have indulged in. There is absolutely no problem - there's actual a necessity to resolve the refugee homeless problem........but these Liberals probably don't want to draw attention to the need to throw more money at a problem that they've created - so they'll get money to the cities in other ways. If you can't properly plan for - and fund - the intake of refugees, don't take them in.....you're playing with peoples' lives. For the Syrians, it's arguably no better being homeless in a completely strange country than it is being in a refugee camp with your own people. And now we've got thousands of illegal economic migrants on the public dole. 

Most of us assume the Libs understand the nature of the problem they're creating, or, perhaps more accurately, worsening, right? It's fascinating that they didn't seem overly interested in the homelessness issue until, well, refugee homelessness started to become a political flashpoint. Among people I talk to here in Toronto, several have asked what the refugee influx is doing to the already existing homeless population, particularly given that we're in the midst of an opioid addiction epidemic, the consequences of which are readily apparent on downtown streets, in downtown parks and, presumably, in the shelter system. And as rents continue to skyrocket in places like Toronto and Vancouver, are we very far away from having do deal with a homelessness crisis among seniors and the physically disabled? Has anybody in Ottawa seriously analyzed these issues, or is that too much to expect?

[dialamah]

47 minutes ago, turningrite said:

Most of us assume the Libs understand the nature of the problem they're creating, or, perhaps more accurately, worsening, right? It's fascinating that they didn't seem overly interested in the homelessness issue until, well, refugee homelessness started to become a political flashpoint. Among people I talk to here in Toronto, several have asked what the refugee influx is doing to the already existing homeless population, particularly given that we're in the midst of an opioid addiction epidemic, the consequences of which are readily apparent on downtown streets, in downtown parks and, presumably, in the shelter system. And as rents continue to skyrocket in places like Toronto and Vancouver, are we very far away from having do deal with a homelessness crisis among seniors and the physically disabled? Has anybody in Ottawa seriously analyzed these issues, or is that too much to expect?

Perhaps if the previous Conservative government had addressed homelessness\addiction we wouldn't have such a huge problem and you all would be able to criticized Liberals withiut appearing hypocritical.  Conservative's "tough on crime" and spending money on the building of "super-max" prisons while reducing resources for sicial service agencies simply make the problem worse.  I have no problem agreeing that this government can and should do more to address these issues, among others, but I object strongly to the claim that this is a "Liberal" problem alone. Conservatives need to stand up and take responsibility and stop playing the victim card all the time.

[Centerpiece]

2 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Perhaps if the previous Conservative government had addressed homelessness\addiction we wouldn't have such a huge problem and you all would be able to criticized Liberals withiut appearing hypocritical.  Conservative's "tough on crime" and spending money on the building of "super-max" prisons while reducing resources for sicial service agencies simply make the problem worse.  I have no problem agreeing that this government can and should do more to address these issues, among others, but I object strongly to the claim that this is a "Liberal" problem alone. Conservatives need to stand up and take responsibility and stop playing the victim card all the time.

When the Conservatives were in power - Harper and his boys were always the "mean spirited" bunch. Conservatives are always depicted that way. They took those lumps from the Left all through their 10 years. No sense trying to defend their policies but they certainly didn't allow for uncontrolled "refugees" flooding across the border - or taking in 25,000 Syrians in such a short time without the right support. No - it's a Liberal problem right now - largely created by Trudeau.  Bad decisions, bad execution.

[turningrite]

1 hour ago, dialamah said:

Perhaps if the previous Conservative government had addressed homelessness\addiction we wouldn't have such a huge problem and you all would be able to criticized Liberals withiut appearing hypocritical.  Conservative's "tough on crime" and spending money on the building of "super-max" prisons while reducing resources for sicial service agencies simply make the problem worse.  I have no problem agreeing that this government can and should do more to address these issues, among others, but I object strongly to the claim that this is a "Liberal" problem alone. Conservatives need to stand up and take responsibility and stop playing the victim card all the time.

The opioid crisis has grown exponentially over the past three or four years given the increasing availability of fentanyl and carfentanyl. Without a doubt, the Conservatives' opposition to harm reduction strategies wasn't helpful as this crisis began to emerge under their watch, but Harper's government was very careful about restricting access to Canada's refugee program. Perhaps in retrospect we should acknowledge the wisdom of the harder line it took on this issue. My point is that the current government's refugee policy is significantly exacerbating other serious social problems in some of this country's biggest cities. I don't think there's any argument that can be made to dispute this assertion. If you're already experiencing serious problems, is it wise to knowingly worsen them?

[Argus]

2 hours ago, dialamah said:

Perhaps if the previous Conservative government had addressed homelessness\addiction we wouldn't have such a huge problem and you all would be able to criticized Liberals withiut appearing hypocritical.  Conservative's "tough on crime" and spending money on the building of "super-max" prisons while reducing resources for sicial service agencies simply make the problem worse. 

Translation: The conservatives dealt with federal issues like prisons and criminality while leaving the provinces to deal with issues under their jurisdiction, like social services.

[Argus]

5 hours ago, Centerpiece said:

Perhaps a little bit of paranoia - but well-founded in the habitual lies and deceit that the Trudeau/Wynne Liberals have indulged in. There is absolutely no problem - there's actual a necessity to resolve the refugee homeless problem........but these Liberals probably don't want to draw attention to the need to throw more money at a problem that they've created - 

The feds have always done their best to disguise just how much immigration and refugees cost us with bland, unsupported statements of how great it all is for our economy.

[dialamah]

2 hours ago, Centerpiece said:

When the Conservatives were in power - Harper and his boys were always the "mean spirited" bunch. Conservatives are always depicted that way. They took those lumps from the Left all through their 10 years. No sense trying to defend their policies but they certainly didn't allow for uncontrolled "refugees" flooding across the border -

True enough, but Harper also didn't jave a Trump loudly trumpetting their intention to deport immigrants.  I don't think it's fair of Liberals to hold it against Harper for running deficits, despite promises to the contrary, because of world affairs at the time.  By the same token, holding today's Liberals responsible for the US refugee problem now seems equally infair.  But of course, if one simply wants to hate on the other side, it makes perfect sense.

[Argus]

1 hour ago, dialamah said:

  By the same token, holding today's Liberals responsible for the US refugee problem now seems equally infair.  But of course, if one simply wants to hate on the other side, it makes perfect sense.

"'To those fleeing persecution, terror & war, Canadians will welcome you, regardless of your faith. Diversity is our strength #WelcomeToCanada,' 

And thus began our refugee crisis

[Centerpiece]

1 hour ago, dialamah said:

True enough, but Harper also didn't jave a Trump loudly trumpetting their intention to deport immigrants.  I don't think it's fair of Liberals to hold it against Harper for running deficits, despite promises to the contrary, because of world affairs at the time.  By the same token, holding today's Liberals responsible for the US refugee problem now seems equally infair.  But of course, if one simply wants to hate on the other side, it makes perfect sense.

A lot of frustration - but no hate. The illegal border crossers were at first almost exclusively Haitians - because Trump signaled that the "safe haven" program that the US put in place after the 2011 earthquake was to be terminated - Haiti was to be designated as a safe country. Canada had terminated their own "safe haven" program almost two years' prior. Canada should have made that clear at the onset and turned back almost all of them - even if they had to create fast-path legislation to minimize the appeal process for these US economic migrants. It appeared to open-minded people that Trudeau was just using the opportunity to virtue-signal to the world and subtly hammer Trump. And we have been paying a heavy price.

[taxme]

On 6/13/2018 at 8:32 AM, Argus said:

Here, in a nutshell, is a prime example of the problems we have with both our refugee system and our judicial system. A guy is suing the government for almost $60 million for violating his charter rights. He's an illegal immigrant who's been in detention for years while we've tried to deport him. He's also a career criminal. Oh ,in case you wonder who's paying for his lawsuit - that's us.

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/politics/stateless-man-jailed-for-seven-years-while-canada-tried-to-deport-him-sues-for-57-5-million/wcm/f0352a67-6a21-48a1-bc7f-2c2a64ec7aa0

Oh gawd, please don't tell me one day that Trudeau decided to pay him off? That is what I fear the most here now is that this criminal will probably be getting some or all of this money from the fools who run this country. The guy is a criminal and personally my feeling is that if he refuses to tell us as to what country he came from and was born in well he could just rot in jail for all I care. The Canadian taxpayer's still lose. If this criminal can get away with this one and collect a nice big fat check from the Canadian taxpayer's and this gets out to the rest of the world well how many more out there are going to try and pull this crap off? Yes indeed it will be the Canadian taxpayer's who will be paying for his lawsuit alright. The things that our politicians have allowed to go on in this country is beyond belief. The respect for our tax dollars and laws in Canada has been treated with contempt by our dear leader fools and misfits. So sad. 

[turningrite]

1 hour ago, taxme said:

Oh gawd, please don't tell me one day that Trudeau decided to pay him off? That is what I fear the most here now is that this criminal will probably be getting some or all of this money from the fools who run this country. The guy is a criminal and personally my feeling is that if he refuses to tell us as to what country he came from and was born in well he could just rot in jail for all I care. The Canadian taxpayer's still lose. If this criminal can get away with this one and collect a nice big fat check from the Canadian taxpayer's and this gets out to the rest of the world well how many more out there are going to try and pull this crap off? Yes indeed it will be the Canadian taxpayer's who will be paying for his lawsuit alright. The things that our politicians have allowed to go on in this country is beyond belief. The respect for our tax dollars and laws in Canada has been treated with contempt by our dear leader fools and misfits. So sad. 

I doubt there will be any such payment made before the next federal election. Trudeau has to understand how this issue plays out in public opinion. Even if he doesn't, his advisors surely must.

[taxme]

On 6/15/2018 at 4:32 PM, turningrite said:

I doubt there will be any such payment made before the next federal election. Trudeau has to understand how this issue plays out in public opinion. Even if he doesn't, his advisors surely must.

But say that prime mistake of ours gets himself elected for another term, that is where he will probably go about paying this guy off. With that dummy one never knows what this guy will do. 

[Argus]

Remember the Syrians? The Conservatives had a plan, prioritizing those most in need and ensuring those we didn't want didn't come here.  They moved Yazidis and Christians to the head of the line, for example, since they were the most in danger.

Then along came Trudeau. "We don't care who they are," he said. "Just get them here fast! Any warm body will do! I have to pad my numbers!"

Well, it seems like among those numbers are ISIS slavers.

At one gruesome point, Nada told me through an interpreter during our hour-long interview at an educational meeting on the Yazidi situation this past Sunday, Nada and her children were forced to watch four men being beheaded. Eventually, because Nada speaks fluent Arabic and could pass as Muslim, she was able to escape with her children and contact family members in Kurdistan, who paid for smugglers to take them there

Canada accepted Nada and her children, but not her father or sister. She has been living in London, Ont., for eight months. Recently, on a bus, she recognized X — the slave-market boss who had owned her and used her for months. They got off at the same stop. X saw her, covered his face and ran off.

http://nationalpost.com/opinion/barbara-kay-the-yazidis-are-on-the-brink-of-extinction-canada-must-do-more

[capricorn]

Quote

In an urgent letter, Mayor John Tory is telling the federal government that Toronto can no longer handle the influx of refugee claimants and will no longer do so without emergency financial help from senior governments.

--

The pressing problem saw the city begin to house refugee claimants in college dormitories starting in May. But those spaces are available only until the beginning of August. At that time, the city has no plan for how to house 800 people currently in those temporary spaces.

Tory’s letter says continuing to house them would require closing multiple community centres and cancelling public programs.

That, Tory wrote, is “a step the city is not prepared to take.”

The blunt letter adds that after a recent announcement of $11 million from the federal government to help Ontario with housing, “no details about how or where this funding will be used have been made available.”

The city says the direct costs of housing refugee claimants in 2017 and projected costs for 2018 are $64.5 million and counting.

Tory concludes by offering to have city staff arrange for federal officials to visit hotel or dormitory sites Toronto is using to temporarily house refugees and asylum seekers, so they can see first-hand the pressure on the system.

According to updated numbers from the city that are current to mid-June, there are nearly 3,200 refugee claimants in the shelter system. Most are housed in motels rented by the city. There are currently no rooms available.

cont'd...

https://www.thestar.com/news/city_hall/2018/06/26/toronto-cant-handle-influx-of-refugee-claimants-tory-tells-ottawa.html.

We've got a new wave of migrants poring over the Canada/US border. The situation is getting out of hand. Now we're seeing the possibilty of  the education needs of students in jeopardy and community programs uprooted. What the hell are our government officials doing about this debacle? Or are they too busy licking their wounds over trade, another issue they can't fix.

[Centerpiece]

Let's see how welcoming Canadians are when the flood doesn't stop. Thanks to our big-mouth, virtue signalling PM, Pandora's box has been opened. We're only STARTING to get a feel for how frustrated many Americans are.

[turningrite]

10 minutes ago, Centerpiece said:

Let's see how welcoming Canadians are when the flood doesn't stop. Thanks to our big-mouth, virtue signalling PM, Pandora's box has been opened. We're only STARTING to get a feel for how frustrated many Americans are.

Toronto's mayor, John Tory, has reportedly written a letter to the federal government advising that there's no more room at the inn. So far, the Trudeau-Trump inspired refugee influx has cost city ratepayers more than $60 million and yet the federal government has apparently offered the whole province of Ontario a one-time sum of $11 million to help deal with a problem largely created by Ottawa. What will happen during the coming winter when growing non-refugee homeless population seeks indoor space? Will there be dozens, or even hundreds, freezing to death on city streets? Tory has said he won't cut other city programs to fund refugee housing. What, then, is going to happen? Does Trudeau understand the scope and breadth of the problem? Personally, I have little confidence that he and/or his government can fix this.