Global Non-Military Islamic Jihad and Canada

[DogOnPorch]

2 minutes ago, eyeball said:

That's right.

...about you.

[Michael Hardner]

17 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

It's not done specifically to foment ill feeling, but the ill feeling it foments is so misplaced it does present as a good reason to do it.

Well, that's just somebody assuming the worst.  If I know and trust somebody I am less likely to suspect their reasons for making broad generalizations.  We have people on here that we know cut/paste information around the web as part of disinformation campaigns though.

[Michael Hardner]

10 minutes ago, eyeball said:

That's right.

Seems pretty simple and yet people take criticism of Christianity so personally, and also will insult Muslim people.  Why is it so hard for people to understand how pluralism works ?  We haven't taught our Western institutions properly, hence the confused hate-mongering.

[Ginsy]

26 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

It was always a complete mystery to me.  The left generally supports the rights of women and homosexuals, as do I.  But when one brings up the barbaric oppression of such by those of a certain religious bent, one is decried as a bigot.  It must be awful to be so conflicted.

Honestly, it is conflicting at times! 

I can acknowledge that teachings in Islam are homophobic and be opposed to the religion itself while also believing that people should not be subjected to discrimination simply for practicing Islam. I'm fine with criticism of the religion, not so much criticism of the individual who practices said religion. Of course, this is where it gets conflicting... Can the two be separated? Does someone who practices a certain religion adhere to every single teaching in it? After all, there are tons of unique interpretations of a religion. Is it fair to assume all followers of a certain religion interpret it in the same way?

 

[DogOnPorch]

Oh yes...let's not assume the worst. Let's pretend every other country on the planet encountering Islam negatively are just a bunch of racist bigoted Islamophobes. 

 

 

Edited January 5, 2018 by DogOnPorch

[eyeball]

3 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Seems pretty simple and yet people take criticism of Christianity so personally, and also will insult Muslim people. 

There's no confusion here just a pig-headed insistence that treating Muslims the way anti-Semites treat Jews is acceptable.

Quote

Why is it so hard for people to understand how pluralism works ?  We haven't taught our Western institutions properly, hence the confused hate-mongering.

I think its simply because some people enjoy being assholes. 

Edited January 5, 2018 by eyeball

[DogOnPorch]

1 minute ago, Ginsy said:

Honestly, it is conflicting at times! 

I can acknowledge that teachings in Islam are homophobic and be opposed to the religion itself while also believing that people should not be subjected to discrimination simply for practicing Islam. I'm fine with criticism of the religion, not so much criticism of the individual who practices said religion. Of course, this is where it gets conflicting... Can the two be separated? Does someone who practices a certain religion adhere to every single teaching in it? After all, there are tons of unique interpretations of a religion. Is it fair to assume all followers of a certain religion interpret it in the same way?

 

 

It's the SS that are the bad apples...Nazis are alright otherwise...eh?

[Guest]

Just now, Ginsy said:

Honestly, it is conflicting at times! 

I can acknowledge that teachings in Islam are homophobic and be opposed to the religion itself while also believing that people should not be subjected to discrimination simply for practicing Islam. I'm fine with criticism of the religion, not so much criticism of the individual who practices said religion. Of course, this is where it gets conflicting... Can the two be separated? Does someone who practices a certain religion adhere to every single teaching in it? After all, there are tons of unique interpretations of a religion. Is it fair to assume all followers of a certain religion interpret it in the same way?

 

People can do whatever they want, including adhere to whatever religion they want, as long as they do not expect any kind of change in behaviour by anyone else.  I have no problem with someone hating homosexuals, for instance, as long as no-one else is affected by it.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Seems pretty simple and yet people take criticism of Christianity so personally...

Not me...

[DogOnPorch]

2 minutes ago, eyeball said:

There's no confusion here just a pig-headed insistence that treating Muslims the way anti-Semites treat Jews is acceptable.

I think its simply because some people enjoy being assholes. 

And fight them until there is no fitnah and [until] the religion, all of it, is for Allah. And if they cease - then indeed, Allah is Seeing of what they do.

Quran 8 39

[DogOnPorch]

And kill them wherever you overtake them and expel them from wherever they have expelled you, and fitnah is worse than killing. And do not fight them at al-Masjid al- Haram until they fight you there. But if they fight you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers.

Quran 2 191

[eyeball]

1 minute ago, bcsapper said:

Not me...

Isn't that because you don't really take any of this very seriously if at all? You seem more faintly amused and barely entertained than anything.

[eyeball]

2 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

And fight them until there is no fitnah and [until] the religion, all of it, is for Allah. And if they cease - then indeed, Allah is Seeing of what they do.

Quran 8 39

Like I said an ancient superstition that should go the way of the dodo.

But keep feeding it that oxygen, its what you do best.

[DogOnPorch]

Just now, eyeball said:

Like I said an ancient superstition that should go the way of the dodo.

But keep feeding it that oxygen, its what you do best.

 

You're free to pretend I wrote the Quran. In which case, please send me my royalties...thief.

[Ginsy]

6 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

It's the SS that are the bad apples...Nazis are alright otherwise...eh?

Godwin's Law has arrived! 

 

[DogOnPorch]

Just now, Ginsy said:

Godwin's Law has arrived! 

 

 

Islam and the Nazis went hand-in-hand. Or didn't you know that?

[Ginsy]

Just now, DogOnPorch said:

 

Islam and the Nazis went hand-in-hand. Or didn't you know that?

I didn't! I don't remember learning about that in History class. I'll go check it out. 

Edited January 5, 2018 by Ginsy
Text vanished

[DogOnPorch]

Just now, Ginsy said:

 

nothing

 

I guess that's a no.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, eyeball said:

Isn't that because you don't really take any of this very seriously if at all? You seem more faintly amused and barely entertained than anything.

One thing is paramount.  Arguing has to be fun.  It's the only reason I come on here.

That said, I'm not going to make anything up.  I do stand behind everything I say. 

Sometimes it's hard to get the true point across though, given the medium.

[DogOnPorch]

3 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

One thing is paramount.  Arguing has to be fun.  It's the only reason I come on here.

That said, I'm not going to make anything up.  I do stand behind everything I say. 

Sometimes it's hard to get the true point across though, given the medium.

 

Arguing with folks who think WW2 started when Poland invaded Germany.

[Goddess]

7 minutes ago, Ginsy said:

I'm fine with criticism of the religion, not so much criticism of the individual who practices said religion. Of course, this is where it gets conflicting... Can the two be separated? Does someone who practices a certain religion adhere to every single teaching in it? After all, there are tons of unique interpretations of a religion. Is it fair to assume all followers of a certain religion interpret it in the same way?

I grapple with this too.  It's not difficult in trivial interpretations of a religion, but what happens when the differences in interpretation encompass larger issues?  Homosexuality - does your religion hate the act, but not the person and let them live in peace?  Or does your religion require you to throw them off rooftops?  Same religion - different interpretations.  Is Islam being practiced as it is meant to be practiced in Muslim majority countries?  You would think that they would be the experts in how Islam is to be practiced, yes?  Or is it being practiced as it was intended in Western countries?  If so, then why is Islam only practiced as intended in Western countries, which would in reality, be a recent and different interpretation of Islam?

[eyeball]

2 minutes ago, Ginsy said:

Godwin's Law has arrived! 

 

You need to realize that DOP is ashamed of a Nazi in his family - apparently the apple didn't fall very far from the tree.  How his acting like a Nazi towards Muslims is supposed to assuage or make it all go away is anyone's guess.

[DogOnPorch]

Just now, eyeball said:

You need to realize that DOP is ashamed of a Nazi in his family - apparently the apple didn't fall very far from the tree.  How his acting like a Nazi towards Muslims is supposed to assuage or make it all go away is anyone's guess.

 

Hardly ashamed.

But I was shocked to learn how close he was to the actual Holocaust...burning Jews in barns and such. He was a combat engineer with the SS in Yugoslavia...flamethrowers and such. He died in Canada...buried in Alberta. After being released from the POW camps...he simply didn't leave. Yes...his boss was a certain Grand Mufti of Jerusalem. The founder of your precious Palestinian Cause. The Mufti fled the noose that waited him post WW2 and escaped back to the Middle East where he started the Arab-Israeli conflict we all know and enjoy to this day.

My so-called shame comes from those Jewish relatives in my family who didn't make it out of Europe. My one aunt still survives...in her 90s. She was on the MS St Louis...now lives in NYC. Still speaks regularly on the subject. She even ended-up as a consultant on the one movie about the voyage. Voyage of the Damned.

Others...many others...were not so lucky. 

 

[eyeball]

8 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

Hardly ashamed.

Barely proud then, have it your way.

Quote

My so-called shame comes from those Jewish relatives in my family who didn't make it out of Europe. My one aunt still survives...in her 90s. She was on the MS St Louis...now lives in NYC. Still speaks regularly on the subject. She even ended-up as a consultant on the one movie about the voyage. Voyage of the Damned.

Now she sends you an "atta - boy" when she reads your posts?

[Argus]

38 minutes ago, Ginsy said:

Honestly, it is conflicting at times! 

I can acknowledge that teachings in Islam are homophobic

The teachings of most world religions are homophobic. The point is not in what is written in the holy books but in how those words are interpreted today by their followers, and how those followers act. Christianity is traditionally homophobic, yet gays have more rights, freedom and safety in western nations - pretty much all of which are Christian - than anywhere in the world. When you compare that to the treatment of homosexuals in the Muslim world, well, there IS no comparison. As I've said before, you won't find any gay pride parades in Cairo, much less Tehran.

38 minutes ago, Ginsy said:

and be opposed to the religion itself while also believing that people should not be subjected to discrimination simply for practicing Islam. I'm fine with criticism of the religion, not so much criticism of the individual who practices said religion. Of course, this is where it gets conflicting... Can the two be separated? Does someone who practices a certain religion adhere to every single teaching in it? After all, there are tons of unique interpretations of a religion. Is it fair to assume all followers of a certain religion interpret it in the same way?

To some extent you're correct. On the other hand, there just aren't that many variations on Islam. I mean, the major difference between the Shias and the Sunnis, for example, isn't so much about text and rules and laws and interpretations as it is about who properly should have succeeded Muhammed.There are 57 members of the Organization of the Islamic Conference and NONE have equal rights between men and women, NONE have equal rights between Muslims and other religions, and NONE are going to be having any gay pride parades any time soon. So they have a lot more in common than not. As to the individual beliefs, they can vary as widely as they do within Christianity, but the majority of Muslim countries do not tolerate people straying far from the central tenets of Islam. Doing so could get you accused of blasphemy - which is punishable by  prison terms or even death in most Muslim countries. Thus when pollsters ask people in countries from Indonesia to Afghanistan and Egypt, about what should be done to blasphemers or Apostates, the overwhelming majority say "KILL! KILL! KILL!".