Why Israel does not want a sovereign Palestinian state

[GostHacked]

10 hours ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

Which means nothing. I can string words together randomly, too.

And that you do very very very well.  Facts are facts East Jerusalem is not part of Israel.

[DogOnPorch]

4 hours ago, eyeball said:

You also toss a really haphazard history salad.

 

You're free to challenge my posts rather than attack me. You know...use history.

But you can't as you know I'm correct.

Edited January 11, 2018 by DogOnPorch

[DogOnPorch]

25 minutes ago, GostHacked said:

And that you do very very very well.  Facts are facts East Jerusalem is not part of Israel.

 

Again, it's up to Israel at this point. Terrorists don't get a "homeland" either way.

[DogOnPorch]

 

1 hour ago, GostHacked said:

And that you do very very very well.  Facts are facts East Jerusalem is not part of Israel.

To further:

I replied....

On 1/9/2018 at 3:01 PM, DogOnPorch said:

 

That's really up to Israel at this point. They didn't start the war. They just had the misfortune of winning it rather than the desired Arab results of pushing all the Jews into the sea.

Jordan initially captured East Jerusalem in the '48 War. Lost it in the '67 War...and doesn't want it back. At least the the moment. Solve a lot of problems if they did take possession. But, that would mean Hashemites in full control of the Temple Mount rather than partial. Doubt the PLO wants that...seeing their history. The Temple Mount also makes a lot of cash for whoever controls it. Tithes and such. Currently it's under a special administration with the Hashemites technically in control but Israel keeping close eye on what goes on.

Jordan vs the PLO...this is one of the bigger sticking points, I'd imagine. Most folks posting here no doubt can't recall this event personally, but the Palestinian Arabs tried to take over Jordan...who had given them shelter. Thousands killed in the fighting...Jordan won and the PLO fled to Lebanon where they proceeded to terrorize that country as well. Resulting in the Lebanon War of the '80s.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_September

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanese_Civil_War

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem_Islamic_Waqf

Folks like yourself should be pushing for such a result though...a hopefully moderate Jordan (comparatively) brokering peace...rather than giving support to like likes of Hamas or the so-called Palestinian Authority. Let's face it...both terrorist organizations. Let's send them to the dustbin where they belong. 

 

You didn't really respond to any of these points. Or can't.

But...you're free to add a rebuttal that is actually backed-up with sources. 

[eyeball]

3 hours ago, DogOnPorch said:

You're free to challenge my posts rather than attack me. You know...use history.

But you can't as you know I'm correct.

I know you have a very long history of mixing shit with Shinola and interpreting the past to suit your biases.

[DogOnPorch]

Just now, eyeball said:

I know you have a very long history of mixing shit with Shinola and interpreting the past to suit your biases.

 

You don't know the first thing about history, so you're free to imagine others are at the same level intellectually as you. That is: not very.

Myself, I've got history on my side and you're free to point out where I got it wrong...complete with your sources. But, since you know I'm right and you have nothing, your only recourse is to attack me personally. 

 

[marcus]

The Israeli society is sick.

This was once more exposed after the video of Ahed Tamimi, slapping an IDF soldier was seen by Israelis. This is a child who has been living under occupation since she was born. Someone who is not allowed and could face jail time by doing a simple demonstration. Someone who has lost family members who have been killed by the IDF. Someone whose cousin was shot just a few hours back by the IDF. Someone who was resisting the Israeli soldiers' blatant disregard for people's privacy and their properties. Who just wonder into people's homes without any punishment.

How did the Israeli society respond to a video of a Palestinian girl slapping a Jewish soldier on her property?

Predictably, Israeli politicians were incensed. Naftali Bennett, the education minister, called for Ahed to “end her life in jail”. Culture minister Miri Regev, a former army spokeswoman, said she felt personally “humiliated” and “crushed” by Ahed.

But more troubling is a media debate that has characterised the soldiers’ failure to beat Ahed in response to her slaps as a “national shame”.

The venerable television host Yaron London expressed astonishment that the soldiers “refrained from using their weapons” against her, wondering whether they “hesitated out of cowardice”.

But far more sinister were the threats from Ben Caspit, a leading Israeli analyst. In a column in Hebrew, he said Ahed’s actions made “every Israeli’s blood boil”. He proposed subjecting her to retribution “in the dark, without witnesses and cameras”, adding that his own form of revenge would lead to his certain detention.

That fantasy – of cold-bloodedly violating an incarcerated child – should have sickened every Israeli. And yet Caspit is still safely ensconced in his job.

But aside from exposing the sickness of a society addicted to dehumanising and oppressing Palestinians, including children, Ahed’s case raises the troubling question of what kind of resistance Israelis think Palestinians are permitted.

International law, at least, is clear. The United Nations has stated that people under occupation are allowed to use “all available means”, including armed struggle, to liberate themselves.

But Ahed, the villagers of Nabi Saleh and many Palestinians like them have preferred to adopt a different strategy – a confrontational, militant civil disobedience. Their resistance defies the occupier’s assumption that it is entitled to lord it over Palestinians.

Ahed and Nabi Saleh have shown that popular unarmed resistance – if it is to discomfort Israel and the world – cannot afford to be passive or polite. It must be fearless, antagonistic and disruptive.

Most of all, it must hold up a mirror to the oppressor. Ahed has exposed the gun-wielding bully lurking in the soul of too many Israelis. That is a lesson worthy of Gandhi or Mandela.

Link

 

 

Edited January 11, 2018 by marcus

[DogOnPorch]

53 minutes ago, marcus said:

The Israeli society is sick....etc.

 

 

The Arabs started the war. Don't blame Israel.

The Arabs can end all of this by putting down their weapons, recognizing Israel and offering-up peace. 

But, that's not going to happen, as the cause you defend is in reality, just a pack terrorists. They exist to terrorize.

They've trashed most of the nations in the region.

You want them to have their own terror state.

Simple.

[Rue]

1 hour ago, marcus said:

The Israeli society is sick.

 

 

One again the thread was supposed to be about Israel not 'wanting" a sovereign Palestinian state. The initial thread of course assumed to know what ALL Israelis believe an din fact demonstrated yet again this thread was initiated to stereotype and assign negative beliefs to all Israelis and not distinguish between Israelis and Jews and lump them in one negative category.

The above responder continues this idiotic thread smearing every Israeli and engaging again in negative stereotypes to incite hatred against ALL Israelis using the often used attempt at raising anger, resentment and negative feelings by trying to exploit the content of a video.

This is the kind of shit that rendered this political forum obsolete. Such stereotypings and generalizations don't present debate of an actual political issue, they simply contain hate messages.

On this forum and these kinds of threads, if the word Israel or Israeli appears anywhere in the thread or words, anything is considered acceptable.

Now if I came on this forum and said Muslim society is sick. Iranian society is sick. Iraqi society is sick. African society is sick. Japanese society is sick. And showed videos and then made generalizations what would the response be? Well if it would be about Iran, or Iraq or any Muslim country the very same propagators passing off this crap as debate would cry out Islamophobia. 

If it smeered Africans it would be caused racist.

If its used to smeer all Israelis or Westerners, its considered acceptable leftist progressive discussion.

For me its bigoted, hateful crap. Its not designed to discuss alternatives to conflict, suggest constructive solutions for peace-its designed to hate and promote hatred.

 

[Rue]

Eyeball your selective take on history on this forum speaks for itself. You are in no position to challenge the historic veracity of the comments of  the Porch Dog when you have repeatedly produced false and incorrect interpretations and recitations of actual historic events.

Next, if you have an actual point an actual item you think Porch of the Dog misrepresented, state it and state why its false. You can not and never have. You rely instead on name calling. Its what you do. When you have no proof of allegations, you spew subjective insults.

Go on produce the historic event he misrepresented. You can't and won't.

You engage in partisan arguments. Your silence as to how such threads are used to smeer ALL Israelis and attribute them all with the same thoughts and values speaks loudly. You join such threads as a chear-leader for hateful comments.

Get back to me with a specific issue and point. Until then run along and spit at Jews with Marcus and Hudson.

[eyeball]

On 1/11/2018 at 9:55 AM, DogOnPorch said:

 

You don't know the first thing about history, so you're free to imagine others are at the same level intellectually as you. That is: not very.

Myself, I've got history on my side and you're free to point out where I got it wrong...complete with your sources. But, since you know I'm right and you have nothing, your only recourse is to attack me personally. 

 

You've gathered up a bunch of historical facts around you like a pile of lego bricks - the shapes you assemble them into is what's in question.  You present the classic example of someone who uses history as a screen on which to project their politics and you clearly don't know the first thing about what's happening now.

[DogOnPorch]

27 minutes ago, eyeball said:

You've gathered up a bunch of historical facts around you like a pile of lego bricks - the shapes you assemble them into is what's in question.  You present the classic example of someone who uses history as a screen on which to project their politics and you clearly don't know the first thing about what's happening now.

 

I accept your surrender and admission of lack of historical knowledge.

Edited January 12, 2018 by DogOnPorch

[eyeball]

On 1/11/2018 at 11:15 AM, Rue said:

Eyeball your selective take on history on this forum speaks for itself.

The only take is that history was as full of assholes as the present.  Pointing them out doesn't justify acting like one.

Quote

Go on produce the historic event he misrepresented. You can't and won't.

Sure I have, he's peddling the same old nonsense he always does, that we have no choice but to act like assholes.

Quote

Get back to me with a specific issue and point.

There's no point in using examples of assholes throughout history as a guide to dealing with the ones we have in the present.

Quote

Until then run along and spit at Jews with Marcus and Hudson.

I'd rather spit at assholes.

[GostHacked]

On 1/11/2018 at 9:35 AM, DogOnPorch said:

 

You're free to challenge my posts rather than attack me. You know...use history.

But you can't as you know I'm correct.

You have nothing to be challenged on,  East Jerusalem is not part of Israel.

[GostHacked]

On 1/11/2018 at 2:15 PM, Rue said:

Eyeball your selective take on history on this forum speaks for itself. You are in no position to challenge the historic veracity of the comments of  the Porch Dog when you have repeatedly produced false and incorrect interpretations and recitations of actual historic events.

Next, if you have an actual point an actual item you think Porch of the Dog misrepresented, state it and state why its false. You can not and never have. You rely instead on name calling. Its what you do. When you have no proof of allegations, you spew subjective insults.

Yeah because you and Dog never ever ever ever throw insults.

[DogOnPorch]

29 minutes ago, GostHacked said:

You have nothing to be challenged on,  East Jerusalem is not part of Israel.

 

Again...not up to you.

That's really up to Israel at this point. They didn't start the war. They just had the misfortune of winning it rather than the desired Arab results of pushing all the Jews into the sea.

Jordan initially captured East Jerusalem in the '48 War. Lost it in the '67 War...and doesn't want it back. At least the the moment. Solve a lot of problems if they did take possession. But, that would mean Hashemites in full control of the Temple Mount rather than partial. Doubt the PLO wants that...seeing their history. The Temple Mount also makes a lot of cash for whoever controls it. Tithes and such. Currently it's under a special administration with the Hashemites technically in control but Israel keeping close eye on what goes on.

Jordan vs the PLO...this is one of the bigger sticking points, I'd imagine. Most folks posting here no doubt can't recall this event personally, but the Palestinian Arabs tried to take over Jordan...who had given them shelter. Thousands killed in the fighting...Jordan won and the PLO fled to Lebanon where they proceeded to terrorize that country as well. Resulting in the Lebanon War of the '80s.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_September

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanese_Civil_War

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem_Islamic_Waqf

Folks like yourself should be pushing for such a result though...a hopefully moderate Jordan (comparatively) brokering peace...rather than giving support to like likes of Hamas or the so-called Palestinian Authority. Let's face it...both terrorist organizations. Let's send them to the dustbin where they belong. 

[GostHacked]

On 1/11/2018 at 9:35 AM, DogOnPorch said:

 

You're free to challenge my posts rather than attack me. You know...use history.

But you can't as you know I'm correct.

Right, because you never ever ever attack anyone.  Suck it up buttercup.

 

On 1/14/2018 at 12:34 PM, DogOnPorch said:

 

Again...not up to you.

Facts are facts, I know you only like the facts that go with your ideology. East Jerusalem is not part of Israel.

[DogOnPorch]

52 minutes ago, GostHacked said:

Facts are facts, I know you only like the facts that go with your ideology. East Jerusalem is not part of Israel.

 

Not my ideology...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Jerusalem

Quote

On being occupied by Israel after the 1967 Six-Day War, East Jerusalem, with expanded borders, came under direct Israeli rule.[7] East Jerusalem had been occupied by Israel in June 1967. On 27–28 June 1967, East Jerusalem was integrated into Jerusalem by extension of its municipal borders and was placed under the law, jurisdiction and administration of the State of Israel....

 

[GostHacked]

Facts are facts Dog .. can't deny it no matter how you 'cut it up'.  Haahahah.

[DogOnPorch]

On 1/16/2018 at 11:24 AM, GostHacked said:

Facts are facts Dog .. can't deny it no matter how you 'cut it up'.  Haahahah.

 

The history books disagree with your assessment that the Arabs won the wars they started.

[GostHacked]

On 1/11/2018 at 9:37 AM, DogOnPorch said:

 

Again, it's up to Israel at this point. Terrorists don't get a "homeland" either way.

I disagree, terrorists already control many 'democratic' nations.

 

2 hours ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

The history books disagree with your assessment that the Arabs won the wars they started.

No where did I say they won. Come on DoP, always twisting other people's words. Hell if I called you straight, you would say you are gay just to spite the conversation.

[DogOnPorch]

4 minutes ago, GostHacked said:

I disagree, terrorists already control many 'democratic' nations.

 

No where did I say they won. Come on DoP, always twisting other people's words. Hell if I called you straight, you would say you are gay just to spite the conversation.

 

Israel didn't start the conflict they just had the misfortune of winning it.

Justin Trudeau does seem to support terrorism.

[GostHacked]

Just now, DogOnPorch said:

 

Israel didn't start the conflict they just had the misfortune of winning it.

Justin Trudeau does seem to support terrorism.

Nah, because SINCE you consider Muslims moving in to Canada and buying up houses, an invasion. 

[DogOnPorch]

Just now, GostHacked said:

Nah, because SINCE you consider Muslims moving in to Canada and buying up houses, an invasion. 

 

No...reintegration of ISIS fighters rather than charging them with terrorism. To name but one disagreeable act this rotten excuse for a PM has inflicted upon Canada.

[marcus]

I came across this piece of jewelry about the earlier history of Zionism in Palestine— that the European settler colonists considered Palestinians “donkeys”—

There is really very little left to be said — what’s the point? The world is afflicted with two diabolical plagues: Zionism in Palestine and white supremacy racism in the United States — and these two plagues now have a nurturing habitat in the highest elected political offices of both Israel and the US—the marriage between the fanatical Zionist Jared Kushner and the daughter of this racist president is the epitome of this dual and identical plague: Zionism and Racism — to be redundant—

But tomorrow morning we will get up and go about our daily business — nothing is going to change— Trump will still be the president of the United States, Netanyahu and the rest of Zionist thieves will continue to steal Palestine one settlement after another —