NAFTA negotiations.

[bush_cheney2004]

9 minutes ago, Wilber said:

You should read your chart a little closer.

 

Total U.S. export trade with Canada and Mexico sits at less than 30%.    Trade is a two way street...nice try.

[Wilber]

Just now, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Total U.S. export trade with Canada and Mexico sits at less than 30%.    Trade is a two way street...nice try.

Not your trade with China, Nice try.

[bush_cheney2004]

Just now, Wilber said:

Not your trade with China, Nice try.

 

The original point was about geography....USA is far more diversified than Canada or Mexico.   Nice try #2.

[Wilber]

The original point was you claiming how China traded more with the US than Canada. What your chart says it China sells a hell of a lot more to the US than the other way around. You are much more a customer of China than a trader with China. 

 

Chinese trade to the US is a super highway. US trade to China is a goat track. 

[bush_cheney2004]

2 minutes ago, Wilber said:

The original point was you claiming how China traded more with the US than Canada. What your chart says it China sells a hell of a lot more to the US than the other way around. You are much more a customer of China than a trader with China.

 

Yes...that is how trade is defined around the world....total imports/exports.   Canada is only 15% for U.S. trade.

 

Quote

Chinese trade to the US is a super highway. US trade to China is a goat track. 

 

So geography is not an issue at all....thank you for agreeing with my point.

[Wilber]

2 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Yes...that is how trade is defined around the world....total imports/exports.   Canada is only 15% for U.S. trade.

 

 

So geography is not an issue at all....thank you for agreeing with my point.

What does geography have to do with your trade balance with China?  Is the Pacific Ocean uphill heading westbound?

Edited September 15, 2018 by Wilber

[bush_cheney2004]

2 minutes ago, Wilber said:

What does geography have to do with your trade balance with China?  Is the Pacific Ocean uphill heading westbound?

 

 

The USA has more trade with nations outside of North America than does Canada.

Edited September 15, 2018 by bush_cheney2004

[Wilber]

2 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

 

The USA has more trade with nations outside of North America than does Canada.

What does geography have to do with your huge trade deficit with China?

[bush_cheney2004]

Just now, Wilber said:

What does geography have to do with your huge trade deficit with China?

 

The huge trade deficit with China is possible despite "geography"....which my original post responded to.

[Wilber]

4 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

The huge trade deficit with China is possible despite "geography"....which my original post responded to.

So nothing. Why bring it up? Oh I  know. Deflect, deflect.

Edited September 15, 2018 by Wilber

[bush_cheney2004]

2 minutes ago, Wilber said:

So nothing. Why bring it up? Oh I  know. Deflect, deflect.

 

Because other members can discuss the topic whether you understand or not.   Canada, Canada, Canada.

[Wilber]

6 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Because other members can discuss the topic whether you understand or not.   Canada, Canada, Canada.

Deflect, Deflect, Deflect.

[OftenWrong]

2 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Yes...that is how trade is defined around the world....total imports/exports.   Canada is only 15% for U.S. trade.

 

Exactly. More trade is more grease for the machinery.

[Zeitgeist]

3 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Total U.S. export trade with Canada and Mexico sits at less than 30%.    Trade is a two way street...nice try.

Well that illustrates my point  China is the country to worry about in terms of trade flows, negative ones.  How do countries like the US and Canada deal with the massive low cost imports from China, lest we forget what started this trade war?  I worry though about where the trade wars will finish.  Are we all committing a bit of suicide by going protectionist?  Closing markets and building walls are the beginning of the end economically. It’s the economy of fear.  Basically the terrorists win by destroying our way of life, stoking public fear over security/safety threats.  We have to avert the temptation to turn our backs to each other and the world.  We need to fight for liberal democratic values, including in the economy.  This involves a fight by all freedom loving countries  against draconian restrictions.  

[bush_cheney2004]

23 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

...  Closing markets and building walls are the beginning of the end economically. It’s the economy of fear.  Basically the terrorists win by destroying our way of life, stoking public fear over security/safety threats.  We have to avert the temptation to turn our backs to each other and the world.  We need to fight for liberal democratic values, including in the economy.  This involves a fight by all freedom loving countries  against draconian restrictions.  

 

No, it's just trade as it has always been, with and without protectionism.   Canada, China, USA, Mexico...doesn't matter...all have their own domestic reasons to create and protect tariffs and non-tariff barriers.   Canada even wants protections for "cultural content", while refusing to implement rigorous measures for IP theft (e.g. U.S. digital content).

America is not turning its back on the world....has far more trade and immigration than Canada.   What the USA is doing is refusing to keep paying the majority of the bill for "liberal democratic values".  

[Zeitgeist]

2 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

No, it's just trade as it has always been, with and without protectionism.   Canada, China, USA, Mexico...doesn't matter...all have their own domestic reasons to create and protect tariffs and non-tariff barriers.   Canada even wants protections for "cultural content", while refusing to implement rigorous measures for IP theft (e.g. U.S. digital content).

America is not turning its back on the world....has far more trade and immigration than Canada.   What the USA is doing is refusing to keep paying the majority of the bill for "liberal democratic values".  

The US is turning its back on open markets.  It’s shutting down agreements.  We all face loss of jobs to lower cost jurisdictions, but don’t make America out to be some kind of trade victim.  The distribution of manufacturing to lower cost jurisdictions is the result of natural causes in open markets.  Don’t pretend the US is supporting open markets. 

[bush_cheney2004]

8 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

The US is turning its back on open markets.  It’s shutting down agreements.  We all face loss of jobs to lower cost jurisdictions, but don’t make America out to be some kind of trade victim.  The distribution of manufacturing to lower cost jurisdictions is the result of natural causes in open markets.  Don’t pretend the US is supporting open markets. 

 

I hope the U.S. is protecting U.S. interests, not open markets.   Still waiting for a Canadian owned auto make to build an assembly plant in the USA.

Why does the burden to protect liberal, post WW2 "rules based" order fall disproportionately on the United States ?

 

[Zeitgeist]

3 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

I hope the U.S. is protecting U.S. interests, not open markets.   Still waiting for a Canadian owned auto make to build an assembly plant in the USA.

Why does the burden to protect liberal, post WW2 "rules based" order fall disproportionately on the United States ?

 

Hold up.  Is the US paying to uphold those values right now?  The US is threatening them at great expense to some countries that are fighting to protect these values.  I think the last few months of commentary on here illustrate that. . 

[bush_cheney2004]

3 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Hold up.  Is the US paying to uphold those values right now?  The US is threatening them at great expense to some countries that are fighting to protect these values.  I think the last few months of commentary on here illustrate that. . 

 

I sure hope so...that was the point of a Trump presidency....to roll back the globalists. 

...and yes, the U.S. is paying for those "values" right now with massive trade imbalances and military budgets.

[Zeitgeist]

8 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

I sure hope so...that was the point of a Trump presidency....to roll back the globalists. 

...and yes, the U.S. is paying for those "values" right now with massive trade imbalances and military budgets.

The US started the arms race.  No one wants it, except Russia perhaps at this point.  If the US diverted more funding from military to development aid, even inside America, it would face less political and military threats. 

Current US trade policy isn’t correcting trade imbalances.  It’s destroying trade, including US exports.  

[bush_cheney2004]

4 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

The US started the arms race.  No one wants it, except Russia perhaps at this point.  If the US diverted more funding from military to development aid, even inside America, it would face less political and military threats.

 

False....Canada and the EU (e.g. NATO) and Pacific rim nations want the U.S. to continue to bear the "post WW2 burden" more than other nations (deadbeats).   Canada's foreign minister has admitted as much in Parliament.   

 

Quote

Current US trade policy isn’t correcting trade imbalances.  It’s destroying trade, including US exports.  

 

Destroying trade will correct trade imbalances.    Think of it as "creative destruction".

[Zeitgeist]

3 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

False....Canada and the EU (e.g. NATO) and Pacific rim nations want the U.S. to continue to bear the "post WW2 burden" more than other nations (deadbeats).   Canada's foreign minister has admitted as much in Parliament.   

 

 

Destroying trade will correct trade imbalances.    Think of it as "creative destruction".

Show me how the US is a defender of these values.  The US is arguably a real threat to them right now.  

[bush_cheney2004]

1 minute ago, Zeitgeist said:

Show me how the US is a defender of these values.  The US is arguably a real threat to them right now.  

 

Is Canada protecting economic communications on the world's high seas with its great Royal Canadian Navy ?

Is Canada the largest member of the IMF ?

Is the Canadian dollar the world's reserve currency ?

Is Toronto the world's largest center for banking ?

 

[Zeitgeist]

8 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Is Canada protecting economic communications on the world's high seas with its great Royal Canadian Navy ?

Is Canada the largest member of the IMF ?

Is the Canadian dollar the world's reserve currency ?

Is Toronto the world's largest center for banking ?

 

No, obviously not the largest, but successful in many areas.  So  what?  What is your country's messaging right now?  What does it stand for?

Edited September 15, 2018 by Zeitgeist

[bush_cheney2004]

Just now, Zeitgeist said:

No, obviously not the largest, but successful in many areas.  So  what?

 

But Canada is clearly not the largest "defender" of such values in very material ways.   

However, the present Canadian government is very good at insisting for continued U.S. leadership in these areas.  

Trump is challenging the globalist status quo, and Canada doesn't like it.