NAFTA negotiations.

[bush_cheney2004]

Canada can't even figure out free trade barriers between provinces, let alone the U.S. and Mexico.

Make Trudeau/Canada sweat it out....

 

[Zeitgeist]

Before Trump added new subsidies for farmers, the U.S. government was subsizdizing farmers to the tune of 20 billion. The U.S. imposed tariffs on Canada. Some free trader. 

[Zeitgeist]

Avoid any trade with the U.S.

[paxamericana]

2 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Avoid any trade with the U.S.

Resist! Resist! Trade with anyone else is a pipe dream. Resistance is futile. Now thanks to Trudeau weak attempt at negotiation, he's putting Canada in an even tougher negotiation position. The EU and mexico is getting on aboard. Pretty soon Canada will be isolated like China. 

Edited August 1, 2018 by paxamericana

[Zeitgeist]

The only isolated country is the U.S.   Don’t you have any concept of how the rest of the world perceives you right now?

[DogOnPorch]

2 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Avoid any trade with the U.S.

 

I wonder what's on CBC tonight?? Anything good? Or will you use Netflix? 

[paxamericana]

1 minute ago, Zeitgeist said:

Don’t you have any concept of how the rest of the world perceives you right now?

Oh we are well aware of our fan club. We decided to reward them with a little spanking on trade and defense. Canada just doesn't appreciate how much good America is doing for the rest of the world. Its okay though, being on top is a lonely position. 

[bush_cheney2004]

Canada on the outside looking in......

 

Quote

Canada has been rebuffed in recent attempts to engage on the North American Free Trade Agreement with U.S. trade representative Robert Lighthizer amid talks between the Trump administration and Mexico, according to three people with knowledge of the negotiations.

... “The Trump administration has clear frustrations with the Canadian government’s approach to the NAFTA modernization, and we’re now seeing it play out in front of our faces,” Adam Taylor, principal and co-founder at trade advisory firm Export Action Global, said by phone from Ottawa. “We’ve seen virtually overnight Mexico and the U.S. are moving forward and Canada looks left behind and then forced into a position where it has to make a significant set of concessions just to be readmitted to the talks, it seems.”

https://www.pressherald.com/2018/07/31/canada-being-shut-out-of-nafta-talks-between-mexico-u-s/

 

[Zeitgeist]

It's all just tactics and misinformation.  Don't trust this crowd.  Reduce trade with the U.S.  Right now President Xi seems more trustworthy than Trump.

[paxamericana]

21 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

It's all just tactics and misinformation.  Don't trust this crowd.  Reduce trade with the U.S.  Right now President Xi seems more trustworthy than Trump.

Oh sure yeah, you should thank China actually, they're the main reason we are unilaterally changing the world trading system.

[Zeitgeist]

Yup, China is building trust with developing countries, laying down infrastructure and building trade partnerships.  Trump is destroying trade relationships and taking advantage of allies.  This is the messaging.  You seem to think it helps the U.S.  We'll find out. 

[paxamericana]

15 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

China is building trust with developing countries, laying down infrastructure and building trade partnerships.

I'm sure China is doing all that for the the goodness of their hearts and the betterment of mankind.

Lending billions of dollars on suspicious infrastructure project that give no long term benefit to the locals while allowing a strategic corridor to move China's troops and information.

I'm sure China was being too kind and the Danes and Ozzy had to politely stop them. Like the attempted purchase of Greenland's naval port and Australia's undersea communication line to the Solomon. Or the Brit's nuclear power plant...  

15 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

You seem to think it helps the U.S.  We'll find out. 

Not really, but we are helping gullible sheep like Canada and the EU. You may not understand it now but you'll thank us eventually. Don't worry, you can read about it 30 years from now in a history book; about how America saved the world from it self(yet again...) and china. Saving the world is America's job, stand aside and watch Canada. 

Edited August 1, 2018 by paxamericana

[bush_cheney2004]

19 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Yup, China is building trust with developing countries, laying down infrastructure and building trade partnerships.  Trump is destroying trade relationships and taking advantage of allies.  This is the messaging.  You seem to think it helps the U.S.  We'll find out. 

 

How many millions of immigrants and refugees have been welcomed in China ?

[turningrite]

2 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Canada on the outside looking in......

 

Have you researched Export Action Global's website? I visited their website It appears they are in the trade business rather than being academic or neutral analysts. It's not a big surprise, then, that such an organization might be unhappy with the kind of trade friction that's grown in recent months. But let's not forget that this friction has largely been generated by the U.S. president. Perhaps EAG should be aiming their criticism at him? Just saying. No sovereign country has an obligation to cave in to Trump's bullying.

[turningrite]

1 hour ago, paxamericana said:

Oh sure yeah, you should thank China actually, they're the main reason we are unilaterally changing the world trading system.

Trump is pussyfooting around China because he has to. Xi and his officials are too smart for Trump and will protect what they see as China's interests. The WTO system needs reform, for sure, but I think Trump is going about this in precisely the wrong way as he's alienated Western allies that could have helped promote change. He doesn't seem to understand this. Not a very smart guy, if you ask me.

[paxamericana]

36 minutes ago, turningrite said:

Trump is pussyfooting around China because he has to. Xi and his officials are too smart for Trump and will protect what they see as China's interests. The WTO system needs reform, for sure, but I think Trump is going about this in precisely the wrong way as he's alienated Western allies that could have helped promote change. He doesn't seem to understand this. Not a very smart guy, if you ask me.

I disagree, he is considering another 200 b on tariff. The eu president agreed he wants to help re write the wto... seems like trump is doing pretty good. The only people butthurt are liberal globalist who seemed fine with the status quo. China will be brought to its knees one way or another. Same goes for whoever else wants to get in our way cough* canada cough*

Edited August 1, 2018 by paxamericana

[bush_cheney2004]

7 hours ago, turningrite said:

Have you researched Export Action Global's website? I visited their website It appears they are in the trade business rather than being academic or neutral analysts. It's not a big surprise, then, that such an organization might be unhappy with the kind of trade friction that's grown in recent months. But let's not forget that this friction has largely been generated by the U.S. president. Perhaps EAG should be aiming their criticism at him? Just saying. No sovereign country has an obligation to cave in to Trump's bullying.

 

Of course not....Donald Trump has only been U.S. president for about 20 months....the tariffs, non-tariff barriers, and IP theft "bullying" have been going on for decades.    Why is it only considered "bullying" when Trump tries to give it right back in an effort to change the status quo ?   Why should the U.S. continue to "cave in" to Canadian and EU "bullying" ?

Would you have us believe and accept that all the trade conflicts before Trump were just typical and acceptable...until Trump came along ?

[bush_cheney2004]

More NAFTA spin from Canadian media...and it is not all good:

 

Quote

Advanced International Studies at Johns Hopkins University, said he’s concerned Canada appears to be outside the “inner circle" of NAFTA talks at the moment. He said he hears from U.S. trade negotiators that they are irritated by what they see as Ms. Freeland and Mr. Trudeau “lecturing the Americans on the virtues of free trade” while remaining adamant Canada’s heavily protected dairy industry be largely off-limits. “I think the hypocrisy and the lack of creativity upset everybody,” Mr. Sands said, adding this has left Canada looking to the Americans as though they were being “dragged to the altar” on NAFTA talks.

...“Premier Ford’s top priority is protecting Ontario jobs. Whatever our disagreements on other issues, our government has indicated our willingness to work with the federal government of this file,” Mr. Ford’s executive director of communications, Laryssa Waler-Hetmanczuk said in response to The Globe. “We certainly hope the federal government takes protecting our economy as seriously as we do.”

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-mexicos-incoming-president-sees-nafta-movement/

 

Justin Trudeau's "feminist agenda" and "sunny ways" don't mean diddly to Mexico and the United States.   Save that nonsense for domestic political campaigns, not international trade negotiations.

 

Edited August 1, 2018 by bush_cheney2004

[bush_cheney2004]

Another Canadian egghead has finally figured it out....President Trump does not consider Canada to be special compared to other trading nations...in this case....energy.

Canada will just have to live with its narrow and limited choices on pipelines, refineries, and export trade to a single nation, which NAFTA only makes worse.

 

Quote

Canada is a leading supplier of oil, gas and electricity to the United States, so the Trump administration’s overall attitude and policies toward energy are critical to many Canadian businesses. The Trump energy agenda may not create undue barriers to entry for Canadian producers, but it will also not provide any special opportunities. Like most other elements of President Donald Trump’s America First policy, there should be little expectation that Mr. Trump has any commitment to Canada when it comes to energy.

... Mr. Trump is also putting American energy interests first, even if it comes at the expense of historic relationships. The President’s criticism of German natural gas imports from Russia was a not-too-subtle message that Germany should diversify its sources of supply – by buying natural gas from the United States, rather than from Russia.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/commentary/article-donald-trumps-energy-policy-no-commitment-to-canada/

 

[turningrite]

2 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Would you have us believe and accept that all the trade conflicts before Trump were just typical and acceptable...until Trump came along ?

There are always conflicts between countries on trade as well as many other bilateral and/or multilateral concerns. The problem with Trump is his screwball and often unfocused strategy. Perhaps he'll be successful, even if only as a result of luck, but the economist Paul Krugman has noted that his tariff strategy is so muddled that it's more likely to harm rather than help American interests. I think a lot of Trump's antics amount mainly to attention seeking. The fact that he has to tell us, and presumably himself, that he's "very stable" is in its own right quite informative.

Edited August 1, 2018 by turningrite

[turningrite]

9 hours ago, paxamericana said:

I disagree, he is considering another 200 b on tariff. The eu president agreed he wants to help re write the wto... seems like trump is doing pretty good. The only people butthurt are liberal globalist who seemed fine with the status quo. China will be brought to its knees one way or another. Same goes for whoever else wants to get in our way cough* canada cough*

WTO reform is the big prize, of course, and Trump should be working with other Western countries for change on that front. China, however, has some advantages in its trade conflict with the U.S., both in terms of its holdings of U.S. government debt as well as the self-interest of major American corporations that profit from the status quo and in particular from low-wage foreign labor. I'm no fan of globalism but among its biggest beneficiaries have been large multinational corporations, many of which are U.S.-based. The profits from these corporations flow back into the U.S., and in large measure to America's wealthy. Perhaps you don't realize how powerful the wealthy are in the American political and economic structure? If so, maybe you should take a look at the big winners in Trump's tax reform regime. Corporations and the wealthy collectively comprise the tail that wags the political dog in the money-driven American political culture. They'll swat Trump away like a pesky fly if his policies start to harm their interests.

[bush_cheney2004]

16 minutes ago, turningrite said:

There are always conflicts between countries on trade as well as many other bilateral and/or multilateral concerns. The problem with Trump is his screwball and often unfocused strategy. Perhaps he'll be successful,

 

Whether Trump is successful or not is secondary....Trump is the president and he was supported/elected to blow up the status quo...and departure from previous "norms" will always be perceived as a reckless threat.    Previous presidents have also made drastic departures (e.g. Richard Nixon), and Trump will have his day just like all the rest.  Trade friction between Canada and the USA is not new or even remarkable....except when Trump is involved ?

The beauty in Trump's unconventional destruction is that he does telegraph every move, and his opponents are still unable to take the point position away from him.   Trump is driving the trade agenda more than any other national "leader".

[turningrite]

12 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Whether Trump is successful or not is secondary....Trump is the president and he was supported/elected to blow up the status quo...and departure from previous "norms" will always be perceived as a reckless threat.    Previous presidents have also made drastic departures (e.g. Richard Nixon), and Trump will have his day just like all the rest.  Trade friction between Canada and the USA is not new or even remarkable....except when Trump is involved ?

The beauty in Trump's unconventional destruction is that he does telegraph every move, and his opponents are still unable to take the point position away from him.   Trump is driving the trade agenda more than any other national "leader".

Well, the proof of the pudding will be in the eating, as the old saying goes. Many Americans might have to deal with negative results they hadn't anticipated. Why, for instance, is Trump already having to put in place taxpayer funded subsidies to offset losses incurred as a result of his trade policies? I think the bigger concern for American voters is whether Trump has any realistic concept of the broader actual economic realities facing the world's most complex economy. He boasts, essentially, that he operates on gut instinct and feelings, a situation many of his supporters seem happy with to date and may be happy with until, well, they're not anymore. Even though many economists have noted that the international trade system requires reform, most that I've read, or read about, are skeptical about Trump's rather incoherent trade strategy. Selling real estate and opening casinos involves different skill sets than does sound macroeconomic management. Trump's disruptive approach is a big gamble. Will it pay off? Some of his casino projects didn't. Gut instinct isn't always accurate, as it turns out.

[Zeitgeist]

That’s why it’s so important for Canada to reduce its exposure to the U.S. wherever possible.  Let the EU and Mexico teach Trump’s novices about trade and go through the process of realizing trade is about give and take, not take and take.  The U.S. has a trade surplus with Canada.  Never forget that. They’re taking advantage of our dependence on trade with the U.S. to exact extortionist concessions.  They are NOT playing fair and certainly not as so called leaders of the free world.  Soon countries will gamble that are better leaders out there.  Postpone trade negotiations with the U.S. for as long as it takes for either a regime change or a serious change of tactics from these extortionists. 

[bush_cheney2004]

2 minutes ago, turningrite said:

... Trump's disruptive approach is a big gamble. Will it pay off? Some of his casino projects didn't. Gut instinct isn't always accurate, as it turns out.

 

Doesn't matter if it "pays off" or not....Trump will pursue his trade agenda knowing full well that it is going to break things.   Clinging to the past and all the pre-existing tariffs, non-tariff barriers, and globalism means that Trump is perceived a grave threat, which is exactly what he is intended to be.    People protest for change and then retreat in fear when it might actually happen.  

This is not America's first economic rodeo....and it will not be the last.    Trump is also not responsible for Canada's economy.