Defeating (Radical) Islam

[August1991]

Based on past experience, several options:

1. Do what Truman did and encircle them. SEATO, NATO, no truck/trade with Iran/Saudi whoever.

2. Do what Reagan did: no contact whatsoever. And something Reagan also did, tell every free-thinking person in any Islamic country, America is on your side.

-every American Embassy in every Middle Eastern country should have a photo of all prominent local people who are gay - men/women
-the CIA knows who is gay in the Saudi royal family - put their photos prominently in front of the US Embassy in Riyadh; out them, both men/women

(In Soviet times, Reagan had to order/force US Embassy staff to post such photos about rich hypocritical Soviets; Trump should may have to do the same with State staff in the Middle East.)  

3. Detente, like Nixon. (Let's just get along.)

4. Fight in Afghanistan. (We may lose this one, like Dunkerque or Vietnam, but we'll win the war. As in Vietnam, our will to fight is evidence that we will win.)

5. Drop a bomb and destroy their relic in Mecca.

 

Edited July 3, 2017 by August1991

[hot enough]

1 hour ago, August1991 said:

Several options:

1. Do what Truman did and encircle them. SEATO, NATO, no truck/trade with Iran/Saudi whoever.

2. Do what Reagan did: no contact whatsoever. And something Reagan also did, tell every free-thinking person in any Islamic country, America is on your side.

-every American Embassy in every Middle Eastern country should have a photo of all prominent local people who are gay - men/women
-the CIA knows who is gay in the Saudi royal family - put their photos prominently in front of the US Embassy in Riyadh; out them, both men/women

(In Soviet times, Reagan had to order/force US Embassy staff to post such photos about rich hypocritical Soviets; Trump should may have to do the same with State staff in the Middle East.)  

3. Detente, like Nixon. (Let's just get along.)

4. Fight in Afghanistan. (We may lose this one, like Dunkerque or Vietnam, but we'll win the war. As in Vietnam, our will to fight is evidence that we will win.)

5. Drop a bomb and destroy their silly relic in Mecca.

 

You don't know any history whatsoever, do you?

[taxme]

2 hours ago, August1991 said:

Several options:

1. Do what Truman did and encircle them. SEATO, NATO, no truck/trade with Iran/Saudi whoever.

2. Do what Reagan did: no contact whatsoever. And something Reagan also did, tell every free-thinking person in any Islamic country, America is on your side.

-every American Embassy in every Middle Eastern country should have a photo of all prominent local people who are gay - men/women
-the CIA knows who is gay in the Saudi royal family - put their photos prominently in front of the US Embassy in Riyadh; out them, both men/women

(In Soviet times, Reagan had to order/force US Embassy staff to post such photos about rich hypocritical Soviets; Trump should may have to do the same with State staff in the Middle East.)  

3. Detente, like Nixon. (Let's just get along.)

4. Fight in Afghanistan. (We may lose this one, like Dunkerque or Vietnam, but we'll win the war. As in Vietnam, our will to fight is evidence that we will win.)

5. Drop a bomb and destroy their silly relic in Mecca.

 

That might do the trick. But what all the western countries of the world should have been doing all these past years was to not allow any immigration at all from any and all Arab countries. The Arabs are just too culturally incompatible to mix in with the western way of life and it's values. I guess that it is never too late to take this kind of action before all of the people in the western world get blown up. It is time for our politically correct politicians to wake the hell up. I guess that the only time those morons will wake up is when some of their own family members get blown up a few times. Then they just might wake the hell up then. It appears to be the only solution left to fix this Islamic problem today. 

[-1=e^ipi]

Engage radical islam in the market place of ideas. Currently we do not allow ISIS, Al Queda to participate in the free market place of ideas, so their narratives cannot get challenged and defeated. Instead, ISIS and other groups use this to justify their 'we're oppressed' narrative, which helps them get more followers.

Also, sanction Saudi Arabia like we did with South Africa. Plus, stop giving aid money to countries that kill gay people.

[Guest]

I don't think radical Islam can be defeated. They are insane bastards who want to die for Allah. 

I guess they could be defeated if they were all allowed to die.   But it would have to be all of them. Tough to do. 

Edited July 3, 2017 by bcsapper

[August1991]

10 hours ago, hot enough said:

You don't know any history whatsoever, do you?

History? The options above are what we in the West did at various times in the past dealing with other various threats.

I suppose we could also try "assimilation".  I'm just wondering out loud here to look for an end game that preserves Enlightenment principles. Dropping bombs is surely the worst option imaginable.

In history, different people with different beliefs, views, languages have managed to live civilly side by side in the same community.  Sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't.

[August1991]

8 hours ago, taxme said:

That might do the trick. But what all the western countries of the world should have been doing all these past years was to not allow any immigration at all from any and all Arab countries. The Arabs are just too culturally incompatible to mix in with the western way of life and it's values. I guess that it is never too late to take this kind of action before all of the people in the western world get blown up. It is time for our politically correct politicians to wake the hell up. I guess that the only time those morons will wake up is when some of their own family members get blown up a few times. Then they just might wake the hell up then. It appears to be the only solution left to fix this Islamic problem today. 

I'm uncomfortable with such broad generalizations. Many people in Iran (not Arab, btw) oppose their theocracy. I think we in the West should signal our support for them as Reagan did with dissidents inside the Soviet Union.

As to immigration, the Israelis have successfully built a wall but I just don't think that's realistic for us.

But with that said, I wonder whether my implicit comparison in the OP of the Soviet Union and radical Islam is even helpful.  The threats are different.

Edited July 3, 2017 by August1991

[August1991]

20 hours ago, -1=e^ipi said:

Engage radical islam in the market place of ideas. Currently we do not allow ISIS, Al Queda to participate in the free market place of ideas, so their narratives cannot get challenged and defeated. Instead, ISIS and other groups use this to justify their 'we're oppressed' narrative, which helps them get more followers.

Also, sanction Saudi Arabia like we did with South Africa. Plus, stop giving aid money to countries that kill gay people.

I kind of like this approach somehow. We should take the long game. And I think we should do it the way we took on South Africa and the Soviets by putting the emphasis on the rights of an individual. People who happen to be homosexual should be able to live normal lives the same way people who happen to be left-handed do; I despair when I see several women covered in black walking several steps behind an uncovered man in western countries. I imagine what northern abolitionists felt when they saw a white man with several blacks following behind in, say, in 1850 New York City. I don't care if the slaves had said that their master treated them well; there is something fundamentally wrong. 

Edited July 3, 2017 by August1991

[hot enough]

5 hours ago, August1991 said:

Many people in Iran (not Arab, btw) oppose their theocracy. I think we in the West should signal our support for them as Reagan did with dissidents inside the Soviet Union.

Now you are advocating terrorism.

Radical Islam is a meme, started by the USA. It is no different than the so called commie threat that seems to have captured your imagination once again. Better check in your knickers and under your bed for commies.

[eyeball]

Negotiate and sue for peace.

Probably not with ISIS though. I'd suggest a more moderate group like al Quaeda...kinda like Sinn Fein was to the IRA.

[Rue]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

Negotiate and sue for peace.

Probably not with ISIS though. I'd suggest a more moderate group like al Quaeda...kinda like Sinn Fein was to the IRA.

I'd suggest you stay in Mama's basement if you think Al Quaeda is moderate. Sue for peace. Guess that's similar to  the expression f...k  for virginity.

Go

[August1991]

6 hours ago, hot enough said:

Now you are advocating terrorism.

Radical Islam is a meme, started by the USA. It is no different than the so called commie threat that seems to have captured your imagination once again. Better check in your knickers and under your bed for commies.

I am most certainly not advocating terrorism, or deliberate, random attacks specifically to civilians.

The vast majority of Muslims that I have met in my life are reasonable, civilized people. Some were pious, some less so. I have met a few fanatical Muslims and they are very distinct from, say, orthodox Jews or Buddhist monks who are also "fanatical". Radical Islam is no invention of the big, bad, evil US of A. 

Anybody with any knowledge of recent history should understand that the Soviet Union was a serious threat to western civilization. If you don't believe me, read Solzhenitsyn, Natan Sharansky or my favourite: Milan Kundera. IMHO, his book The Joke should be part of any intelligent person's basic education.

[-1=e^ipi]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

Negotiate and sue for peace.

Al Queda and ISIS want world domination. Furthermore, they think that their world domination is prophecised in the Quran. At best you can get a temporary truce with them.

[August1991]

17 hours ago, bcsapper said:

I don't think radical Islam can be defeated. They are insane bastards who want to die for Allah. 

I guess they could be defeated if they were all allowed to die.   But it would have to be all of them. Tough to do. 

Insane bastards who want to die for God? In some ways, we in the West are being forced to return to The Thirty Years War. That was a vicious, destructive civil war largely in Germany between Protestants (Lutherans) and Catholics - who thought they were dying for God. Because of Sweden (and this was the last time Swedes ever got involved in European wars), Lutherans were ultimately accepted.

(Churchill referred to the wars of religions and the wars of nations. The Thirty Years War was a war of religion. WWI was a war of nations.)

There is a struggle now between Shia and Sunni. For whatever reason, perhaps because the Saud family is Sunni and controls the two holy Muslim cities, Shia feel like poor cousins. This dispute has all the makings of a religious civil war. The Lebanese Civil War started as a war between Christians/Muslims but ultimately became a war between Muslims themselves. This ongoing civil war in Syria is ultimately a religious war. 

[hot enough]

33 minutes ago, August1991 said:

Radical Islam is no invention of the big, bad, evil US of A. 

Anybody with any knowledge of recent history should understand that the Soviet Union was a serious threat to western civilization. If you don't believe me, read Solzhenitsyn, Natan Sharansky or my favourite: Milan Kundera. IMHO, his book The Joke should be part of any intelligent person's basic education.

The USA created the backlash thru its myriad war crimes and terrorism in the ME and other places. The invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan were the ultimate war crimes, no different from what the Nazis did in WWII. The US/UK own all the resulting crimes from their illegal invasions.

Your second paragraph is bollocks. It was western nations that were doing all the terrorist acts in Europe after WWII.

Russia and China both helped Korea and Vietnam throw out the invading horde of Americans, then they went home. That's not the USA. Are you familiar with the US sponsored and planned Indonesian genocide? 

Operation Gladio - Full 1992 documentary BBC

 

Yes, Russia created a buffer around itself after WWII because the USA had before invaded Russia, not the other way around.

[August1991]

1 hour ago, -1=e^ipi said:

Al Queda and ISIS want world domination. Furthermore, they think that their world domination is prophecised in the Quran. At best you can get a temporary truce with them.

Al Qaeda (bin Laden) specifically wanted US (Christian) troops to leave Saudi Arabia - the Muslim holy land.

Small detail: In 1991 (?), a DC-8 plane (Nationair, who remembers that Canadian company?) crashed in Saudi Arabia near Jeddah. (It was chartered to fly pilgrims to Mecca.) The Saudi regime insisted that every remnant of the Canadian crew (presumably Christian) be removed from the crash site since they did not want non-Muslim bones on holy land. 

There are no churches anywhere in Saudi Arabia. Crosses, Christmas decorations even depictions of Santa Claus are forbidden. (In Riyadh, I once bought a coffee mug with a caribou surrounded by green/red leaves. That's as close to Christian as was possible.)

=====

As to ISIS (Daesh), they want a Sunni caliphate. They want a theocracy to control Mecca (not the Saud family). World domination? Dunno. For historical reference, we in the West can consider the Ottoman Empire to be a caliphate.

Edited July 3, 2017 by August1991

[DogOnPorch]

Islam's goal as stated in the Quran is to FIGHT the Unbeliever until all religion is for Allah.

Sounds pretty world domination-y.

[August1991]

51 minutes ago, hot enough said:

The USA created the backlash thru its myriad war crimes and terrorism in the ME and other places. The invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan were the ultimate war crimes, no different from what the Nazis did in WWII. The US/UK own all the resulting crimes from their illegal invasions....

 

Only the US/UK own ALL the resulting crimes? You mean, as a Canadian, I'm innocent?

======

hot enough, when you burn a Canadian flag because of our illegal invasions, I'll pay attention to your posts.

 

Edited July 3, 2017 by August1991

[DogOnPorch]

4 minutes ago, August1991 said:

Only the US/UK own ALL the resulting crimes? You mean, as a Canadian, I'm innocent?

======

hot enough, when you burn a Canadian flag, I'll pay attention to your posts.

 

 

The USMC was created to STOP Islamic piracy and slave trading on the high seas via the Shores of Tripoli.

Islam has been a source of constant invasion of the West and Former West...lands Islam captured back in the day, that is...

[hot enough]

24 minutes ago, August1991 said:

Only the US/UK own ALL the resulting crimes? You mean, as a Canadian, I'm innocent?

======

hot enough, when you burn a Canadian flag because of our illegal invasions, I'll pay attention to your posts.

 

I think you do just fine with your novels and your fantasies. They obviously keep you from addressing reality. 

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, Rue said:

I'd suggest you stay in Mama's basement if you think Al Quaeda is moderate. Sue for peace. Guess that's similar to  the expression f...k  for virginity.

Go

I suggest you go express yourself too.

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, -1=e^ipi said:

Al Queda and ISIS want world domination. Furthermore, they think that their world domination is prophecised in the Quran. At best you can get a temporary truce with them.

We do too so good luck suing us for peace.

[hot enough]

2 hours ago, -1=e^ipi said:

Al Queda and ISIS want world domination. Furthermore, they think that their world domination is prophecised in the Quran. At best you can get a temporary truce with them.

Jesus on a popsicle stick, people are so incredibly gullible. All you have ever heard is US propaganda and you folks are looking under your beds like little children. 

Have you ever asked yourselves, when did this BS start, who started it, who has been using it to advance their STATED plan for world domination? 

 

Edited July 3, 2017 by hot enough

[hot enough]

1 hour ago, August1991 said:

Al Qaeda (bin Laden) specifically wanted US (Christian) troops to leave Saudi Arabia - the Muslim holy land.

You focus on the small details which have big propaganda power. OBL wanted the US to stop murdering Muslims. OBL wanted what most of the world wants, Israel, a US client state, to stop murdering Palestinians and stealing their lands. OBL wanted the US to stop stealing the wealth of other nations, the bread from the mouths of children, to stop murdering children. 

Small detail: In 1991 (?), a DC-8 plane (Nationair, who remembers that Canadian company?) crashed in Saudi Arabia near Jeddah. (It was chartered to fly pilgrims to Mecca.) The Saudi regime insisted that every remnant of the Canadian crew (presumably Christian) be removed from the crash site since they did not want non-Muslim bones on holy land. 

There are no churches anywhere in Saudi Arabia. Crosses, Christmas decorations even depictions of Santa Claus are forbidden. (In Riyadh, I once bought a coffee mug with a caribou surrounded by green/red leaves. That's as close to Christian as was possible.)

None of this was on any one of you folks radar, at all, until the US created their huge lies, using 911 as a pretext to invade countries they had years before planned to invade. But you all got duped by the lies, lies you know are lies and still you repeat brainless proaganda.

=====

As to ISIS (Daesh), they want a Sunni caliphate. They want a theocracy to control Mecca (not the Saud family). World domination? Dunno. For historical reference, we in the West can consider the Ottoman Empire to be a caliphate.

As you have shown, history is not your long suit.

 

[hot enough]

22 hours ago, -1=e^ipi said:

Currently we do not allow ISIS, Al Queda to participate in the free market place of ideas, so their narratives cannot get challenged and defeated.

That's right, "WE" control the narrative totally. By 'we' we all know that means the USA. The greatest liars of all time, the guys who have more false flags to their name than anyone, 'we' trust to run the narrative. 

Long before the illegal invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan, the US/UK was butchering innocents. The US planned the destruction of Iraq's water treatment facilities, knowing full well in advance that it would mean the deaths of potentially millions. That is a war crime of epic proportions.

How many of you would have sworn to fight to the death had that been done to you and your kin and friends and countryfolk.

Still you mouth the propaganda!