Native complaints about Canada's 150th

[Argus]

12 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Canada generally hasn't treated aboriginals very well over the centuries so i see the point of their complaints.

When the English conquered Ireland they outlawed the Irish language, and outlawed their religion on punishment of death and made them pay fines for non attendance at Anglican church services. It was illegal for Irish to own property.

[Stan]

1 hour ago, Argus said:

When the English conquered Ireland they outlawed the Irish language, and outlawed their religion on punishment of death and made them pay fines for non attendance at Anglican church services. It was illegal for Irish to own property.

Yea, but the Irish were 2nd or 3rd class white people, gingers even, they deserved it.

[jacee]

On 2017-6-30 at 0:24 PM, Argus said:

Calling us 'settlers' and 'colonists' they continue to insist that no one has any rights to the land here but them.

That isn't true.

Indigenous Peoples have kept their treaties with us that allow us to live on their land.

We have not kept our treaties with them.

Their request is always the same: Honour the treaties.

 

[herples]

15 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Canada generally hasn't treated aboriginals very well over the centuries so i see the point of their complaints.

However, the narrative that "this land is native land" is filled with BS. Yes there's many parts of Canada where natives have legit land claims, and some treaties in the far past that were signed through deception/trickery, but it's important to remember that when Europeans began colonizing the North American continent, the vast, vast majority of the land wasn't occupied or even set foot upon by aboriginals.  The land mass that is now called Canada was largely unoccupied wilderness of vast forests, swamps, grasslands, tundra, and ice as far as the eye could see. 

You can't make a claim to land you didn't occupy or use.

We still don't use most of the land or occupy it today.

[herples]

3 hours ago, Argus said:

When the English conquered Ireland they outlawed the Irish language, and outlawed their religion on punishment of death and made them pay fines for non attendance at Anglican church services. It was illegal for Irish to own property.

The British were not nice to any culture different from their own. 

[Wilber]

55 minutes ago, herples said:

The British were not nice to any culture different from their own. 

They were a lot more tolerant than other countries of that age and the degree of rule it had over territories within the empire varied greatly. It's the only reason a country of just over 20 million at the time was able to extend its influence over a quarter of the worlds population.

[Argus]

1 hour ago, herples said:

The British were not nice to any culture different from their own. 

Compared to whom? The Spanish? The Dutch? The Arabs?

[Argus]

1 hour ago, jacee said:

That isn't true.

Indigenous Peoples have kept their treaties with us that allow us to live on their land.

We have not kept our treaties with them.

Their request is always the same: Honour the treaties.

No, that's not the request. The request is to honour the treaties as the natives interpret them in the light of 'oral teaching' from their ancestors as opposed to what's actually written down.

[Rue]

22 hours ago, taxme said:

I see no reason to be proud to be Canadian at all that much anymore.

I have unlike you travelled to some places and seen things that makes me damn grateful to be Canadian and say the things you complain about are for me a joke the stuff soft sheltered brats whine about.

As for the native people, you've never been to a reservation I doubt you have ever met one yet you talk as if you know them and understand them. You don't. You have not a clue what is going on in their world don't pretend you do.

As for the others bashing natives on this thread it doesn't change a damn thing. The fact is they have legal rights that have to be resolved. Some issues are as a result of their own corrupted self governments, some is federal government mismanagement and some of it is extremely complex and won't be resolved with name calling.

I ALSO AGREE STRONGLY WITH CAP WHO SAID JUSTIN'S TEE PEE VISIT WAS ALL ABOUT NARCISSISM YET AGAN TRUDEAU PANDERING TO THE CAMERAS AND USING ABORIGINALS AS A PROP TO POSE. They were used and they should understand stunts like the one they pulled would just be exploited. Stunts for the news do not do a damn thing.

 

[jacee]

1 hour ago, Argus said:

No, that's not the request. The request is to honour the treaties as the natives interpret them in the light of 'oral teaching' from their ancestors as opposed to what's actually written down.

It's best we leave the interpretation to the courts. There are often additional documents, letters, etc., that we don't have access to, that help the courts clarify the understanding of the treaties. 

With no treaty, of course, the land is still Aboriginal title. 

Even with treaties, some Aboriginal rights are retained - ie, the right to sustain themselves off the land. 

Overriding agreements still apply too - eg, the Royal Proclamation 1763, the Silver Covenant Chain etc.

Again, a reason to leave interpretation to the courts.

Edited July 1, 2017 by jacee
Add

[Hal 9000]

Treaties are all outdated and shouldn't be recognized as anything except museum pieces.  The world has moved on - sorry.

[jacee]

42 minutes ago, Hal 9000 said:

Treaties are all outdated and shouldn't be recognized as anything except museum pieces.  The world has moved on - sorry.

Nonsense.

Canada doesn't exist without treaties. 

Lol

 

[Hal 9000]

There are plenty of things that were laws or treaties written over 150 years ago that don't apply in 2017.  Should were revisit all the laws of the 1800's?

Treaties shouldn't apply, reserves don't work and you people clinging on to these archaic documents are part of the "First Nations" people's problems.

[jacee]

18 minutes ago, Hal 9000 said:

There are plenty of things that were laws or treaties written over 150 years ago that don't apply in 2017.  Should were revisit all the laws of the 1800's?

Treaties shouldn't apply, reserves don't work and you people clinging on to these archaic documents are part of the "First Nations" people's problems.

The legal existence of Canada is based on treaties.

Treaties can only be renegotiated by mutual agreement.

Law is a complex thing, requiring education and expertise.

We do live by laws of the 1800's and earlier, that defined the boundaries of Canada, for example. 

Edited July 1, 2017 by jacee

[taxme]

8 hours ago, Argus said:

When the English conquered Ireland they outlawed the Irish language, and outlawed their religion on punishment of death and made them pay fines for non attendance at Anglican church services. It was illegal for Irish to own property.

That was all in the past. That does not happen today. So, what's your point? 

[taxme]

5 hours ago, jacee said:

That isn't true.

Indigenous Peoples have kept their treaties with us that allow us to live on their land.

We have not kept our treaties with them.

Their request is always the same: Honour the treaties.

 

They sure do not seem to have a problem with taking tax dollars from Canadian taxpayer's these days, now do they? If they have a problem with how they were treated in the past why than do they still like to take our tax dollars with no problem for them to be able to live in houses, buy cars and atv's and all the other goodies that the Europeans gave to them? It seems a little bit ridiculous, don't you think? If one takes a careful look at an Indian today they will notice that they look very much like they are related to Asians. Are the Indians of today descendants of Asians? Interesting. 

[taxme]

2 hours ago, jacee said:

Nonsense.

Canada doesn't exist without treaties. 

Lol

 

Just curious. What do you mean by "Canada does not exist without treaties"? 

 

5 hours ago, herples said:

The British were not nice to any culture different from their own. 

Ghengis Khan was not very nice to any of the people and their cultures that he conquered. So? 

[jacee]

22 minutes ago, taxme said:

Just curious. What do you mean by "Canada does not exist without treaties"? 

We made peace treaties with Indigenous Nations for use of their land. We have land rights in Canada only by treaty.

[Argus]

3 hours ago, jacee said:

It's best we leave the interpretation to the courts. There are often additional documents, letters, etc., that we don't have access to, that help the courts clarify the understanding of the treaties. 

With no treaty, of course, the land is still Aboriginal title. 

The aborigines didn't have titles. They had no written languages. They have no reliable recording of events prior to the coming of Europeans.

[taxme]

3 hours ago, Rue said:

I have unlike you travelled to some places and seen things that makes me damn grateful to be Canadian and say the things you complain about are for me a joke the stuff soft sheltered brats whine about.

As for the native people, you've never been to a reservation I doubt you have ever met one yet you talk as if you know them and understand them. You don't. You have not a clue what is going on in their world don't pretend you do.

As for the others bashing natives on this thread it doesn't change a damn thing. The fact is they have legal rights that have to be resolved. Some issues are as a result of their own corrupted self governments, some is federal government mismanagement and some of it is extremely complex and won't be resolved with name calling.

I ALSO AGREE STRONGLY WITH CAP WHO SAID JUSTIN'S TEE PEE VISIT WAS ALL ABOUT NARCISSISM YET AGAN TRUDEAU PANDERING TO THE CAMERAS AND USING ABORIGINALS AS A PROP TO POSE. They were used and they should understand stunts like the one they pulled would just be exploited. Stunts for the news do not do a damn thing.

 

(1)I have done some travelling in my time, and some of those third world countries that I visited made me be thankful that I was born in Canada. It is the Canada of today that I do not like. It is purposely being changed to not reflect the old Canada that I was brought up in. It is starting to look like I am living in some third world country somewhere, and I have a right to complain about it if I like whether you like it or not. Your multicultural liberal brats is the reasons why I am not feeling like a European Canadian anymore in Canada. 

(2)I have seen many reservations on TV, and that is enough for me. There is no need to go to any of them. They look like places that I would see on TV in some of those third world countries. With the hundreds of millions if not billions of Canadian taxpayer's tax dollars that have been spent on those so-called Indian reservations I have to ask as to where and how and what the hell has happened to all of those tax dollars that was given to them by we the European people of Canada whom they so despise for decades now? I have heard plenty about what went on their world. Would you like to hear stories about what went on in the European world for the last few centuries? Probably not. So, stop with the cry me a river stuff, I am tired of listening to people like you about the poor plight of the Indians In Canada. They should all be wealthy as hell by now with all the tax dollars that they have been getting for decades. 

(3)The only thing that should be changed is the handouts to a people who seem to be not so bright enough to get with the program, and stop whining about how things have been so bad for them story in the past, and for them to get with the program and join the 21st century. Let them start up a casino or something that will create work for their people just like the Europeans did when they came to North America. They were not given out welfare checks by the Indians when the Europeans came here. They worked for their money. 

(4)Justin is a joke, and the rest of the world knows it. JT should go live in a tepee. JT is being made a fool of by all of the illegal criminal so-called refugees and Muslims that he is flooding into Canada. They all like him because he opened up the border gates for them. Once they are settled away into Canada they will treat him like they will treat the rest of the European Canadians, a bunch of nobody's. Just give us more money so we can all buy a new car. Just my opinion, of course. 

[jacee]

33 minutes ago, taxme said:

They sure do not seem to have a problem with taking tax dollars from Canadian taxpayer's these days, now do they? 

Those are not our "tax dollars".

Those are the trust funds of Indigenous Nations, for leases and sales of land rights, revenues from resources, etc., via treaties, land claims, etc.

If our governments have 'misspent' any Indigenous trust funds ... whose fault is that?

[Argus]

7 minutes ago, jacee said:

We made peace treaties with Indigenous Nations for use of their land. We have land rights in Canada only by treaty.

We have land rights on account of we are here and we hugely outnumber them and  we won the fights.

Edited July 1, 2017 by Argus

[taxme]

7 minutes ago, jacee said:

We made peace treaties with Indigenous Nations for use of their land. We have land rights in Canada only by treaty.

Too late now. The Europeans are here and we ain't leaving, pardner. The Indians of today now have to deal with the European Canadians of today who had nothing to do with what happened to them in the past. I/they had nothing to do with their problems of today. European Canadians have land rights too now, so what the hell are you going to do about that? It's a bloody mess, and I for one do not what to do about it all except to maybe suggest that we all just try to get along and move on. The Indians have their land, and the Europeans have their land. Everybody is happy. 

[jacee]

7 minutes ago, Argus said:

The aborigines didn't have titles. They had no written languages. They have no reliable recording of events prior to the coming of Europeans.

The Supreme Court disagrees.

• Test. The test for Aboriginal title is based on sufficient, continuous and exclusive occupation by a First Nation prior to European sovereignty and does not bar nomadic and semi-nomadic people from proving an Aboriginal title claim. A court should emphasize integration of Canadian common law and Aboriginal perspectives in applying this test.
• Territorial Scope. The SCC confirmed that Aboriginal title is not necessarily confined to specific settlement sites, but may extend to tracts of land that Aboriginal peoples regularly used prior to European sovereignty.

http://www.mcinnescooper.com/publications/legal-alert-scc-sets-test-for-and-defines-rights-of-aboriginal-title-in-canada-in-tsilhqotin-nation-v-b-c/

At some point it becomes just stupid to keep arguing with the laws of Canada.

Love it or leave it.

[taxme]

16 minutes ago, jacee said:

We made peace treaties with Indigenous Nations for use of their land. We have land rights in Canada only by treaty.

And the Indians are getting well paid by you and me the taxpayer's who are paying rent to the tune of hundreds of millions of tax dollars every year to be on their land. What more do they want? Renegotiate for more money? Everybody wants my money. I soon won't have any money left if this keeps up. I might have to end up living in a tepee.