DogOnPorch Posted June 18, 2017 Report Posted June 18, 2017 Just now, kactus said: Surrender my arse! That too. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
CITIZEN_2015 Posted June 18, 2017 Report Posted June 18, 2017 (edited) 15 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said: You're free to believe that the US conducted the coup rather than the Iranian Army who were VERY anti-Soviet. Any idea why? It was the CIA who funded and organized the coup without which it would have been impossible as Mosaddegh was enjoying widespread support and it wasn't only the army who participated but a whole bunch of thugs were recruited with CIA money to attack pro-Mossaddegh supporters and solidify the coup. They did not need to land any US army personal or CIA thug on Iranian soil to do the task for them as there were enough traitors and thugs there on land to be paid and do the dirty job for them. Edited June 18, 2017 by CITIZEN_2015 1 Quote
DogOnPorch Posted June 18, 2017 Report Posted June 18, 2017 (edited) 4 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said: It was the CIA who funded and organized the coup without which it would have been impossible as Mosaddegh was enjoying widespread support and it wasn't only the army who participated but a whole bunch of thugs were recruited with CIA money to attack pro-Mossaddegh supporters and solidify the coup. There was ALREADY a coup against Mousie in the works...you really have no clue why the Iranian Army hated the Communists? Funding = Bribing Army officers not on board with the coup and a big cargo aircraft. I assure you, Iranians carried-out the coup of 1953. Not Kermit Roosevelt, himself. Edited June 18, 2017 by DogOnPorch Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
kactus Posted June 18, 2017 Report Posted June 18, 2017 2 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said: It was the CIA who funded and organized the coup without which it would have been impossible as Mosaddegh was enjoying widespread support and it wasn't only the army who participated but a whole bunch of thugs were recruited with CIA money to attack pro-Mossaddegh supporters and solidify the coup. Why are you even wasting time with these people? Bunch of brainwashed folks who are spoon fed by news outlets like Fox to regurgitate the same crap over and over. You tell them it's night time and it's dark outside and they still argue... 1 Quote
DogOnPorch Posted June 18, 2017 Report Posted June 18, 2017 Just now, kactus said: Why are you even wasting time with these people? Bunch of brainwashed folks who are spoon fed by news outlets like Fox to regurgitate the same crap over and over. You tell them it's night time and it's dark outside and they still argue... What do you have left to surrender? I'll take that, as well. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
CITIZEN_2015 Posted June 18, 2017 Report Posted June 18, 2017 7 minutes ago, kactus said: Why are you even wasting time with these people? Bunch of brainwashed folks who are spoon fed by news outlets like Fox to regurgitate the same crap over and over. You tell them it's night time and it's dark outside and they still argue... I give up!!!! Quote
DogOnPorch Posted June 18, 2017 Report Posted June 18, 2017 (edited) And since you all have no clue about Iran during WW2... It was invaded by the Soviets who stormed-in looking for their warm-water port under the pretext that Iran was going to join the Axis during Barbarossa*. Luckily Churchill noticed and also invaded from the south...seizing the oilfields and ports. Take that Stalin! Iran of course went-on to play a big role in WW2 as the Persian Corridor...the Lend Lease route to southern Russia. Many Iranian Army members got to see the inside of Soviet POW camps/gulags after they surrendered, where they were harshly treated for the next four or more years until finally set free. And Mousie wanted them to all play nice with the Soviets...not going to happen. You're free to deny this occurred...as you will. *Barbarossa = Invasion of the Soviet Union in 1941. Edited June 18, 2017 by DogOnPorch Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
hot enough Posted June 18, 2017 Report Posted June 18, 2017 10 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said: And since you all have no clue about Iran during WW2...It was i Never a source for the fantasies of the right/conservatives. But note, even the other righties won't support this fictional history. Quote
DogOnPorch Posted June 18, 2017 Report Posted June 18, 2017 Just now, hot enough said: Never a source for the fantasies of the right/conservatives. But note, even the other righties won't support this fictional history. Yeah...Barbarossa and WW2 are all figments of my imagination.... Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
CITIZEN_2015 Posted June 24, 2017 Report Posted June 24, 2017 (edited) On 6/18/2017 at 6:58 PM, DogOnPorch said: And since you all have no clue about Iran during WW2... It was invaded by the Soviets who stormed-in looking for their warm-water port under the pretext that Iran was going to join the Axis during Barbarossa*. Luckily Churchill noticed and also invaded from the south...seizing the oilfields and ports. Take that Stalin! Iran of course went-on to play a big role in WW2 as the Persian Corridor...the Lend Lease route to southern Russia. Many Iranian Army members got to see the inside of Soviet POW camps/gulags after they surrendered, where they were harshly treated for the next four or more years until finally set free. And Mousie wanted them to all play nice with the Soviets...not going to happen. You're free to deny this occurred...as you will. *Barbarossa = Invasion of the Soviet Union in 1941. This is BS. The British and Soviet colluded on this invasion and pre-planned the sudden invasion. Ambassadors of both countries went to see the then Shah to inform him of the mutual invasion. They invaded same day and same hour even, in the early morning hours taken Iranian army by surprise and most sleeping. The biggest lie here is that Mosaddegh was cozy with Russians. He was a nationalist and he knew well that both Russians and British are Iran's enemy and never liked either of them. The British got him deposed so that they continue to rob Iranians in different ways. Down with Britain. I am happy to see Britain losing its colonies and getting poor and poorer every day. Bastard blood suckers. Edited June 24, 2017 by CITIZEN_2015 Quote
DogOnPorch Posted June 24, 2017 Report Posted June 24, 2017 Mossadeq was MOST cozy with the Communist Tudeh Party which he needed to win his election. As for the invasion. They didn't decide the same day to invade. Stalin was going to invade on his own regardless of British participation. The British (and later Americans) being involved stopped Stalin from presenting the conquest of Iran as a fait accompli after the war ended. Though I doubt Stalin was thinking that far ahead...unlike Mr Churchill. Try n' get 'em to leave Iran...you and what army? Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
CITIZEN_2015 Posted June 24, 2017 Report Posted June 24, 2017 Tudeh party being traditionally a traitor bunch of people who formed a so called party to sell Iran to Russians gets cozy with anyone in power who is popular. They were cozy with Mosaddegh for the reason that he was popular but Mosaddegh was not cozy with them, and they did same with Islamic regime at first when they were popular too but the mullahs were not cozy with them. Their plan is to back stab later and sell Iran to Russians. Russian interest is the only interest they ever cared about. 1 Quote
DogOnPorch Posted June 24, 2017 Report Posted June 24, 2017 1 minute ago, CITIZEN_2015 said: Tudeh party being traditionally a traitor bunch of people who formed a so called party to sell Iran to Russians gets cozy with anyone in power who is popular. They were cozy with Mosaddegh for the reason that he was popular but Mosaddegh was not cozy with them, and they did same with Islamic regime at first when they were popular too but the mullahs were not cozy with them. Their plan is to back stab later and sell Iran to Russians. Russian interest is the only interest they ever cared about. You're free to call the Tudeh Party traitors. They tried to draw Iran into the Soviet fold in 1946 ALREADY and Mossadeq knew that FULL WELL. Pretending Iran existed outside the power struggle between the West and the Soviet Union seems to be the favorite argument of those seeking to put 100% of the blame for Iran's Coup on the CIA. Much like in South Viet-Nam...there was already a coup in the works being planned by the Iranian Army...probably MORE than one if one checks deeper. The Iranian Army being staunchly anti-Communist due to their experiences during WW2 at the hands of Stalin and the NKVD. The CIA capitalized on this...as would any self-respecting cowboy spy operation...which pretty much sums-up the CIA (cowboys) before George Bush Sr cleaned it up. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
DogOnPorch Posted June 24, 2017 Report Posted June 24, 2017 Interesting you'd call them traitors...too. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
CITIZEN_2015 Posted June 24, 2017 Report Posted June 24, 2017 (edited) Tudeh party was the same as the other communist parties in Eastern Europe like East Germany, Poland, Ukraine, Balkans, Czechoslovakia, ..... after Soviet occupation post WWII. They were too all traitors to their countries and their nations like the communist party in Afghanistan post Zahir Shah who sold off their countries and murdered and tortured their own citizens to preserve Russian interests. Fortunately Tudeh party never got the chance. I hope they burn in hell. Edited June 24, 2017 by CITIZEN_2015 1 Quote
DogOnPorch Posted June 25, 2017 Report Posted June 25, 2017 I mean: are you Persian, yourself? Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
eyeball Posted June 25, 2017 Report Posted June 25, 2017 On 6/18/2017 at 4:05 PM, DogOnPorch said: Yeah...Barbarossa and WW2 are all figments of my imagination.... They might as well be given the sense you make of things. 1 Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
CITIZEN_2015 Posted June 25, 2017 Report Posted June 25, 2017 (edited) I am very knowledgeable about international politics and have met many people of various nationalities in the long 12 university years and engaged in political and social discussions as well as in the bars during the younger days and still do meet people of various national origins at work. Nationalities I have met include but not limited to Persians (I did have a Persian girlfriend for a while and was close to her family), but also South Americans (as why I know about Chile and Argentina) and Arabs and Turks and Greeks and Israelis and French and Polish and Russian and British and Chinese and even Central Americans plus the fact that international politics is my favorable subject. That does not mean I am all those nationalities just because I know about them and I comment with passion. I could debate Chilean politics as well as Iranian or Greek or Turkish or Arabian politics. Edited June 25, 2017 by CITIZEN_2015 1 Quote
Army Guy Posted June 26, 2017 Report Posted June 26, 2017 On 6/17/2017 at 7:21 PM, SpankyMcFarland said: That's a very Serbian view of things. You must be a lot more annoyed with the Americans because they got involved as well. Just because Hezbollah got involved doesn't automatically mean they were wrong to do so. You've picked a poor example of Hezbollah bad behaviour here. You make it sound like if the americans had not got involved , the whole matter would have solved itself......Hezbollah was there because it was beneficial to them and them only....they made money hand over fist selling wpns....to any side that wanted them.....they also sold their services as well.....it was a killing ground and they wanted their piece of the pie.....thats what terrorist do......and if you can't see any wrong doing on their part, then perhaps you need to change your color of your glasses. Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
eyeball Posted June 26, 2017 Report Posted June 26, 2017 6 hours ago, Army Guy said: Hezbollah was there because it was beneficial to them and them only....they made money hand over fist selling wpns....to any side that wanted them.....they also sold their services as well.....it was a killing ground and they wanted their piece of the pie.....thats what terrorist do... Isn't pie why we selling weapons and services to dictators? Yes, because thats what Shining Beacons do... Quote ...and if you can't see any wrong doing on their part, then perhaps you need to change your color of your glasses. This is why I love you so much AG. You never fail to dump it and immediately stick both feet in it. 1 Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Rue Posted June 26, 2017 Report Posted June 26, 2017 (edited) On 2017-06-24 at 10:50 AM, CITIZEN_2015 said: oThis is BS. The British and Soviet colluded on this invasion and pre-planned the sudden invasion. Ambassadors of both countries went to see the then Shah to inform him of the mutual invasion. They invaded same day and same hour even, in the early morning hours taken Iranian army by surprise and most sleeping. The biggest lie here is that Mosaddegh was cozy with Russians. He was a nationalist and he knew well that both Russians and British are Iran's enemy and never liked either of them. The British got him deposed so that they continue to rob Iranians in different ways. Down with Britain. I am happy to see Britain losing its colonies and getting poor and poorer every day. Bastard blood suckers. The fact is the allied forces, i.e,, Britain, the US and Russia cooperated on the invasion of Iran and deposed the Shah and replaced him with his nephew because they all saw that Shah although officially neutral, as a sympathizer of the Nazis and Hitler and the allies needed the oil supply and did not want it fall into Nazi control. The nephew put in power despised the Russians and communism, and was pro British and American. That is a fact not opinion. He openly sai dso and made that clear. The Shah of Iran as we know him was pro Western. His country was very Westernized. It did have gestapo like police force called the SAVAK notorious for arresting and torturing suspected communists and the Shah like many pro Western allies was not democratic when it came to communism or perceive dpolitical enemies. He could be and was brutal at times. The fact is his predecessors claimed to usher in a sharia law regime and claim to be democratic and they are even worse in using state violence and brutality to keep the masses under control. The fact is Iran is a terrorist state in operation. Each day it terrorizes, mutilates, tortures its own citizens. It also alongs ide Saudi Arabia is the no.1 financier of terrorism across the world. Trying to blame all current affairs on the British and Americans is ridiculous Anyone who knows the history of Persia knows the volatility and brutality that has been a part of many of its past societies. Its often referred to as the birth place life, it has had many incredible civilizations but its also had brutality and violence which was entrenched long before Europeans wanted its oil. Edited June 26, 2017 by Rue Quote
Rue Posted June 26, 2017 Report Posted June 26, 2017 14 hours ago, eyeball said: They might as well be given the sense you make of things. Your comment makes no sense. You came on the board to stick your tongue out. He merely repeated historic fact. The fact you are ignorant of those facts does not mean thr don't make sense, just that you remain ignorant of them and think if you stick your tongue out, you feel you contribute to the thread. Day care behaviour. Someone really needs to blow your nose. Quote
Rue Posted June 26, 2017 Report Posted June 26, 2017 On 2017-06-24 at 11:15 AM, CITIZEN_2015 said: Tudeh party being traditionally a traitor bunch of people who formed a so called party to sell Iran to Russians gets cozy with anyone in power who is popular. They were cozy with Mosaddegh for the reason that he was popular but Mosaddegh was not cozy with them, and they did same with Islamic regime at first when they were popular too but the mullahs were not cozy with them. Their plan is to back stab later and sell Iran to Russians. Russian interest is the only interest they ever cared about. I lean to that interpretation of events as well. The problem is as you know, a lot of agendas were at play and we now rely after the fact on testimonials by people some neutral some who had clear biases. Its complex stuff to make sense of. You and DOP are both accurate. I don't think either of you is off base. I think we can all agree the Shah we all know of the 50's and 60's was very anti communist-if I may use the analogy, as hateful of them as Gustav Pinochet in Chile. In the cold war having him an ally tot he West ment overlooking his Savak and internal campaign against communists that could terrorize the nation. Terrorism has been around in Persia long before the British showed up to be fair. The West, the China and Russia, have all propped questionable regimes for oil. Quote
SpankyMcFarland Posted June 26, 2017 Report Posted June 26, 2017 11 hours ago, Army Guy said: You make it sound like if the americans had not got involved , the whole matter would have solved itself......Hezbollah was there because it was beneficial to them and them only....they made money hand over fist selling wpns....to any side that wanted them.....they also sold their services as well.....it was a killing ground and they wanted their piece of the pie.....thats what terrorist do......and if you can't see any wrong doing on their part, then perhaps you need to change your color of your glasses. HB has worked tirelessly to destroy Lebanon and Syria and you're getting upset because they defended Muslims from genocide in Bosnia. Quote
SpankyMcFarland Posted June 26, 2017 Report Posted June 26, 2017 (edited) I think post 1989, 9/11 and the Afghan Wars, we can see communists and socialists in Muslim countries a little differently. Many of the best and brightest joined these parties in an effort to modernize their societies and free them from the grip of religion. Socialists are modernists - different pew but same church as ourselves. Edited June 26, 2017 by SpankyMcFarland Quote
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