Quran have been attacked

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, Benz said:

When I look at the link you provided, it says that the school allows the same thing to all religions and that they are doing that for a very long time.  So what makes you say that the treatment is different with the muslims?  

I think a significant minority or even majority of the complaints I read make the mistake of conflating public and private.  

I have tried explaining that to people, but I don't think they really want to understand.   My suspicion and hope is that people who are so disengaged don't vote.

[blackbird]

On 2017-04-01 at 11:06 AM, dialamah said:

It's not irrelevant; it's part of the nuance you refuse to admit.   The point is that younger Muslims, even second generation ones, who are more likely to consider themselves Muslim first are also the ones most likely to feel that Canadians do not accept them.  

I bet if you asked Christians if they were 'Christian first' or 'Canadian first', the majority would say 'Christian first', because that is part of being Christian, as explained in this article:  

Nobody is concerned by this, because most of us do understand that for religious people, God comes first.  This doesn't mean that they can't be loyal or committed Canadians; it just means they are religious.  

And note even as this younger, second generation of Muslims are becoming more religious, they are also rejecting the themes of patriarchy and anti-homosexuality that their parents and grandparents were raised with.    So what we have, when we put all this 'nuance' together are second generation Muslims who are more religious than their parents, more proud of being Canadian than previous generations and who are more likely to reject patriarchy and to accept the prevailing social attitude towards homosexuality - which is acceptance.   Kind of like Christians, eh?   Christians who put God first, who are proud to be Canadian, who believe in the rights and freedoms Canada offers, who may or may not approve of homosexuality, and who may or may not embrace patriarchy as "God's way".   

 

I take the broad statements of the people who carried out the survey and analyzed the results over the one-sided statements of an anti-Muslim and anti-immigrant commentator on a political forum.   

Did you even note that Muslim Canadians are more proud to be Canadian than non-Muslims, and that pride has grown in the last decade?   Here, 'facts and figures' that you choose to ignore in favor of the single point you believe buttresses your anti-Muslim argument.    

How is proud to be Canadian measured?  How are these numbers on the graph determined?  Who took this survey?

Edited April 7, 2017 by blackbird

[scribblet]

3 hours ago, Benz said:

When I look at the link you provided, it says that the school allows the same thing to all religions and that they are doing that for a very long time.  So what makes you say that the treatment is different with the muslims? Do they have an imam coming overthere every friday or the students are alone?

I agree withyou that the religion has no place in a secular school. However, it means ALL religions should not be in schools.....................

I'm not aware of other religions conducting prayer services or services lead by an Imam or whoever, Hindus where part of the numbers protesting Peel schools as they are not given services -    in fact Canada's education act prohibits  religious services during school hours..  They could go to a room and pray privately.   Not only this, but the schools are accepting a practice which relegates women to a diminished capacity, something which should never be facilitated in our schools.    

There are some  accommodations for other religions such as no testing on Jewish holidays and Sikh boys are allowed to wear a kirpan (if covered up), despite a ban on all knives.  https://www.thestar.com/life/parent/2011/07/08/board_runs_afoul_of_education_act_with_prayer_services.html

“Charter cases have said . . . you cannot accommodate the desire for prayers or religious instruction in a public school,” said constitutional lawyer Ed Morgan, of the University of Toronto.

Something after school, or on weekends, would be fine, he added.

But Muslims must pray at a certain time on Fridays so “we have the duty to accommodate,” said board superintendent Jim Spyropoulos.

 https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/globe-debate/editorials/public-schools-cannot-be-places-of-prayer/article586199/

 

 

Edited April 7, 2017 by scribblet

[scribblet]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

I think a significant minority or even majority of the complaints I read make the mistake of conflating public and private.  

I have tried explaining that to people, but I don't think they really want to understand.   My suspicion and hope is that people who are so disengaged don't vote.

My suspicion is that those people whom you believe to be inferior, actually do vote.  

[Michael Hardner]

8 minutes ago, scribblet said:

My suspicion is that those people whom you believe to be inferior, actually do vote.  

I didn't say inferior. I hope that they don't.

[scribblet]

Just now, Michael Hardner said:

I didn't say inferior. I hope that they don't.

You inferred it though.

[Michael Hardner]

Just now, scribblet said:

You inferred it though.

No, you inferred it.

[Benz]

14 hours ago, scribblet said:

I'm not aware of other religions conducting prayer services or services lead by an Imam or whoever, Hindus where part of the numbers protesting Peel schools as they are not given services -    in fact Canada's education act prohibits  religious services during school hours..  They could go to a room and pray privately.   Not only this, but the schools are accepting a practice which relegates women to a diminished capacity, something which should never be facilitated in our schools.    

There are some  accommodations for other religions such as no testing on Jewish holidays and Sikh boys are allowed to wear a kirpan (if covered up), despite a ban on all knives.  https://www.thestar.com/life/parent/2011/07/08/board_runs_afoul_of_education_act_with_prayer_services.html

“Charter cases have said . . . you cannot accommodate the desire for prayers or religious instruction in a public school,” said constitutional lawyer Ed Morgan, of the University of Toronto.

Something after school, or on weekends, would be fine, he added.

But Muslims must pray at a certain time on Fridays so “we have the duty to accommodate,” said board superintendent Jim Spyropoulos.

 https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/globe-debate/editorials/public-schools-cannot-be-places-of-prayer/article586199/

 

 

The line is very thin. If all religions have the same benefits, protesting against the muslims is islamophobia. If the other religions do not have such benefits, then the protests are clearly justify. We are talking about the same kind of protests. The same reactions. The context reveals the true agenda. That is why I am asking those questions.

The answer of Jim Spyropoulos is very bad. It's not up to him to determine if a school must comply to the agenda of a religion. It's a debate our society must have. A religion must not have a say on your calendar or working hours. But our society can decide if the school system can adapt the need of those religious people or not. We already have christian holidays. Maybe we can change that to something more common.

In a society with a big cultural diversity, we cannot comply to the need of every one. We need a common ground. So the religions must adapt to the constraints. Not the other way around. We could let down the easter holiday and choose a specific neutral date. No one will be totally satisfied but, every one must understand that it is not realistic to comply to every one. That is the challenge of a multi-confessional society.

[Goddess]

40 minutes ago, Benz said:

In a society with a big cultural diversity, we cannot comply to the need of every one. We need a common ground. So the religions must adapt to the constraints. Not the other way around.

Some religions refuse to adapt or accomodate others, yet demand others adapt and accomodate them.