DogOnPorch Posted March 25, 2017 Report Posted March 25, 2017 1 minute ago, Rue said: Hee hee. Listen you want to spell out their correct name and advertise them go ahead. I won't. I find them to be nothing but excrement. Go on spell out there name on another thread and giggle about them. Hijacking this thread to giggle at terrorists and try present them as if they have the right to expect anyone to state their correct name speaks loudly of you. You got that or do I need to spell that out... You spelled Hamas correctly. I was unaware this was an exercise in shame. That being said: mellow out, Rue. 1 Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Argus Posted March 25, 2017 Report Posted March 25, 2017 56 minutes ago, hot enough said: Muslims have been victims, the victims of illegal attacks on their countries, which far outweigh any attacks on the western illegal invaders. Blather. Their own intemperate and violent behavior has drawn repeated intervention. And virtually the deaths you whine about were at their own hands. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
H10 Posted March 25, 2017 Report Posted March 25, 2017 46 minutes ago, Rue said: No not at all and let's not change the thread topic. I will try keep this brief and suggest if you want to start yet another thread on rationalizing segregated classes do so under the appropriate thread. The fact that Britain is an Anglican nation does not mean its schools only can be Anglican. The segregation you propose is based on the categorization of people by skin colour. Jews are a race according to many jews, so you propose racee based segregation in a jewish state. 46 minutes ago, Rue said: The fact a country is Jewish, Christian, Muslim, is one thing. The fact it might segregate its schools based on skin colour, religion, political belief would be another. Jews are a race so it is segregation. 46 minutes ago, Rue said: In a perfect world there would have been no need for Zionism and Israel. It came about as a last resort existential response because Jews were discriminated in the Muslima nd Christian worlds. Had Christian and Muslim nations not discriminated against, massacered and defined us Jews as Christ killers, infidels, khafir, we of course would have never had to go out and create a nation. That said in Canada it is a crock to argue blacks should be segregated from whites in schools because this will be good for their self esteem. I disagree with you the same reason I disagree with sending my children to private Jewish schools. I do not think segregation is the way to promote tolerance. Yeah because Canada which has a long history of being discriminatory and racist towards african canadians and original people is somehow better than the muslims and christians in europe who were tolerant of jews. 46 minutes ago, Rue said: In Israel and you've never been there, you have no idea how the public schools work. If you did you would understand the issue of Israel as a Jewish state, and who goes to public schools is not one and the same and the public schools do not segregate based on religion, skin colour, culture. People can opt out and send their children to ultra-orthodox Jewish or Sharia law schools or Christan schools. They have that option. Israeli jews don't even go to school with israeli arabs and they largely speak different languages anyhow. This is why Israel is called an apartheid state. So you jews have the right to go to your orthodox jew schools and muslims get sharia schools but you want to deny that to other races/religions, hypocrit! 46 minutes ago, Rue said: There is nothing hypocritical about what I said. You are under the mistaken impression because you won't travel to Israel or take the time to even understand what goes on within it, that its being a Jewish state was created to serve as a refuge, a state guarantee that Jews would be protected not exterminated by the state. It did not and does not segregate. Segregation has happened on the West Bank or in Gaza because Hamas, and the PA threatened to kill Palestinians who lived side by side Jews and I was there and witnessed that so don't even presume to tell me otherwise. As well I witnessed first hand the people who have chosen to segregate were extremist Jews and Muslims or fundamentalist orthodox Jews and Muslims and Christians. They did so on an individual basis because of their extremist religious beliefs. Explain Israeli apartheid and segregation. Israel separates from the muslims, separation by race according to you is segregation, jews are self segregating from muslims. 46 minutes ago, Rue said: Then there has been terrorism-something you do not understand that now causes Palestinians and Israelis to be afraid of each other. It is their fear that is stoked by terrorism deliberately so they will not trust one another. That's the point of terrorism-to get in people's heads and have them cower from each other. The person who made these calls, has clearly some serious mental illness. If it was caused by a brain tumour we will find out. On the other hand if this guy was an extremist hater, he should be called out as that. Either way once again Israel caught a person engaging in terror. That is the point not segregation, not Muslim victims, not Jewish victims. The use of such events to piss on Israel is old that on this forum. The usual individuals come out on cue and piss. You need a history book, UN has recently spoken about the need for reparations to original north americans for racial terrorism against original people in north america. Canada has a long history of afro-phobia and anti-original hatred and terrorism. You can't say one race should have a country but it is wrong for another race to have a school. 2 Quote
Rue Posted March 25, 2017 Report Posted March 25, 2017 (edited) 4 hours ago, DogOnPorch said: You spelled Hamas correctly. I was unaware this was an exercise in shame. That being said: mellow out, Rue. Here let me help.. Hamas is spelled M U R D E R I N G S C U M. If you need any more help let me know. Edited March 25, 2017 by Rue 1 4 Quote
Rue Posted March 25, 2017 Report Posted March 25, 2017 (edited) Hernanday you stated: "Jews are a race according to many jews, so you propose racee based segregation in a jewish state." Bull sheeyat, No Jew refers to being Jewish as a race. Provide the proof. You fabricated that. Go on provide on Jew calling himself a race. I'd love to see the passage. Please do not tell me how I define myself or how other Jews define ourselves. All that does is show you are a presumptuous bigot in your approach to Jews as a people. The exercise of defining Jews as a race was invented by Nazis. No we do not define ourselves as a race you do as evidenced in your further comment: "Jews are a race so it is segregation." Your comment shows not only you are ignorant of how we Jews define ourselves but you are a bigot who patronizes and presumes to tell we Jews who we are. No we do not define ourselves as a race. What a stupid thing to say. Jews are of every skin colour and genetic variety. We go from coal black to albino white-from Chinese to Indian to African to Arab to "white". What a stupid thing to say. Zionism never defined Jews as a race, Neither does our religion If you want to continue to be ignorant and insist on being ignorant about how we Jews define yourself no one can stop you and it simply manifests your deliberate bigotry and ignorance of Judaism and Zionism and how the two do not even define Jews the same way. Zionism redefined a Jew as anyone who was persecuted politically for being Jewish. It did not define Jews in religious terms but in terms of a nationalist identity in need of sufferage, of liberation from people just like you-ignorant bigots who used their state governments to persecute us. In Judaism , we Jews are defined as the descendants of the Hebrews, a collective of people who were said to promise God that in return for praying to God through a collective and not as individuals, God would remember us through that collective and not as individuals. The device of collectivity when praying to God was a theological exercise in keeping pur people on the verge of being wiped out, united. You have been told that by me many times. You deliberately have ignored me when I have pointed that out. Now you fabricate Jews define ourselves as a race again. Its a tiresome false canard. Get it clear. There is no such thing as race. Its a social construct proven to be absurd. You can have a white man and a blaxck man wh o have more in common genetically than two white or two black men. Skin colour does not define a race. Race was created as a concept duringf a time when skin colour, the texture of hair, the shape of nose and eyes was thought to define race. Science now proves it does not. Such things are secondary genetic characteristics, and irrelevant to the actual genetic makeup of all of us. In reality there is no race. Skin colour, nose shape does not make race. The term is antiquated, You use it because that is how you see blacks v.s. whites and whit you think you can define people as black and segregate them. Zionism did not ever believe in or claim segregation of Jew from anyone. It proposed state protection of Jews, period. You can repeat until doomsday falsehoods about Zionism, Judaism, all you want but it won't make them true. As well for someone who calls Jews a race go on explain how a Felashie Jew who is black using your terms. or an Indian Jew or a Chinese Jew or an African Jew is the same race as a white Jew or Mitzahi-Tsfardic Jew. Go on explain. Explain how dark brown Jews, yellow Jews, coal black Jews, Caucasian Jews using your ridicullus terms are once race. Then you made this comment: "Yeah because Canada which has a long history of being discriminatory and racist towards african canadians and original people is somehow better than the muslims and christians in europe who were tolerant of jews." Again your ignorance of Jewish history in Europe speaks loud and clear. You pretend you've never heard of what happened to Jews in the holocaust or prior to that in Europe. Poof anti Semitism, pogroms, slaughters hat continued for 3,000 years then a holocaust nope not in your world right? Oh but wait the Muslim world according to you with its defining of Jews as Dhimmi/khafir, hell that's not apartheid. Who Muslims define us as cursed infidel and who to this day refer to us in the Koran as monkeys to be wiped out-oh hell they loved us in the Muslim world and still do. This is why so many of us move to Iran, Iraq, Syria, Yemen Saudo Arabia, they just love us. Tell me you claim Canada has a long history of discrimination towards African Canadians. You even know what the word African Canadian means? Well do you? Well hey now, do African Jews come under your definition? Do white and Indo-Chinese Africans come under your definition? How about white refugees from Africa? Oh hell no. If they aint black you don't want them in your schools. Go on spit it out. You don't mean African Canadians, you mean black African Canadians. Interesting how you avoid the world black with your African description before the name Canadian. What you think I wouldn't notice? Lol. Its precisely your kind of racial stereotyping Martin Luther King and even Malcolm X rejected. Your notion of race is based on your personal views which you think Jews and blacks and Arabs and other minorities use. Guess what we do not. You do. You speak for yourself and a minority of black bigots who are no different than white ones. Let me burst your bubble. The pan-Arab definition of Arab reintroduced by Gamel Nasser was no different to Muslims in the Middle East than how Jews defined themselves in Israel. Arabic is to the Arab people as Hebrew is to the Jewish people. Now you stated: "Israeli jews don't even go to school with israeli arabs and they largely speak different languages anyhow." The above is false. Public schools are open to Christians, Muslims, Jews. Arabic, Hebrew and English are taught in the schools. People have the option to opt out and send their children to private schools. You are absolutely dead wrong and you continue to spew out fabricated b.s. you try pose as fact with no citations. You've never been to Israel. You have no clue about it and you again show this repeated ignorance. Most Israelis speak Arabic and most Arab Israelis speak Hebrew. I went to Hebrew University of Jerusalem with Buddhist, Christian, Hindu, Jewish, atheist, Siekh, Bahaii, Muslim students. You are full of it. You stated: "This is why Israel is called an apartheid state." Yes by you. Its based on your ignorant false misunderstandings of how Jews define ourselves. You think we define ourselves as a race. You have no clue how we define ourselves. You've never been to Israel. You haven't a clue that Israeli Muslims, Christians, Jews Bahaiis, atheists, go to the same schools, hospitals, universities-shop in the same stores, elect members to the same government. You have zero clue. In fact apartheid is a term invented by people who were not referring to Israel but occupied land in Gaza and the West Bank. In fact Jews and Muslims and Christians all live in segregated areas on the West Bank and in Gaza and that has happened due to political and religious extremism that preceded Zionism and is not the result of any one specific ideology let alone government action. In your world you deliberately ignore that Muslim religion is not separate from state and so its legal and government systems through Sharia law impose Muslim ireligious beliefs that state Muslims can not live in the same neighbourhood as non Muslims and non Muslims must be segregated. Non Muslims are not considered able to have the same legal rights as Muslims. Non Muslims can not own land, have their own state, testify in court.This is what non Muslims have lived with for thousands of years in the Muslim world-a world of apartheid- a world of apartheid you won't acknowledge or discuss. Jews escaped this apartheid, this bigotry you defend. In your world someone who liberates themselves from apartheid and second class inferiority imposed on them, if they are a Jew is a racist and a segregationist. Talk about bigotry and double faced two standards by you defend racists and bigots as long as they do it against Jews. Never mind in Israel Muslims have every legal right no Jew has in a Muslim country. That you ignore. You ignore a Muslim can and does own land in Israel b ut a Jew can not in the Muslim world; Muslims have Judges, elected members of Parliament, doctors, lawyers, dentists all making a living in Israel. In fact some of Israel's most loyal citizens and bravest soldiers were and are Muslim. Who you have a clue about that? You? Over 125 legal rights organizations in Israel defending Muslim Israeli rights. Well of course you knew that because you also know that if a Jew were to form a political party let alone a human rights organization in a Muslim country they would be arrested and put in jail if not killed. Yah you knew that.. Then you made this comment: "So you jews have the right to go to your orthodox jew schools and muslims get sharia schools but you want to deny that to other races/religions, hypocrit!" You have again misrepresented what I actually stated and falsely accuse me of an opinion I do not have. I have stated repeatedly I would not send my children to a private Jewish school. I am a person who believes religion should be separated from public schools in Canada. I am not Israeli. What I did state was in Israel, Jews, Christians and Muslims have the equal right to opt out to private religious schools or stay in the public school system no different than in Canada. I have stated in Muslim sharia law nations, there is no equality. All schools are Sharia law schools. There is no separation of religion from schooling. You either are deliberately lying or you do not read what I write. Which one is it? Show one word from me where I said I want to deny you or anyone the right to segregate yourself. Go ahead. Lock yourself in a ghetto that fears whites and thinks if you run away from them it will empower you. I call that self defeating. What I have challenged is you thinking you have the right in a democracy, in this to demand public tax money be used to implement a school based on skin colour or religion and for that matter gender and gender preference as the criteria for admission to that school. I am well aware public schools in Toronto have been created for artists, gays and aboriginals and now blacks demanded the same right. I personally think the intent behind these schools was not based on bigotry but to help students not doing well in mainstream schools-however I think all such schools do is shelter students from conflict and not empower them but weaken them by doing that. I believe the best way to deal with intolerance is the Jackie Robinson method-the method of Ghandi, Luther-King, or what my father and the Irish in my child neighbourhood taught me, to stand one's ground and if need be fight but stand tall. Short term pain for long term pain. My opinion is shared by most minorities. We don't ask for favours, just the same chance. I grew up a Jew in an Irish neighbourhood. I had my share of fights but they taught me self respect and the same people I fought with were the people most loyal to me. Conflict can be bad but it has to be dealt with-running from it won't make it go away. What you propose is inherently racist. You want to be a racist knock yourself out. Have pride parades and make sure white people can't show up. Do a nose shape and skin colour test to determine who can show up at your parades. Determine if their hair is curly enough. Oh I get it. Just do not expect me to pay my tax dollars for you to do that any more than I should pay tax dollars to gay pride or Nazi pride or any other damn pride that segregates and discriminates. I am not denying you anything. Be a bigot just don't think I have to pay for it or democracy and freedom of speech means I have to support your bigotry. .What I am challenging is your right to expect a democratic government to favour your form of bigotry, period. You stated: "Explain Israeli apartheid and segregation. Israel separates from the muslims, separation by race according to you is segregation, jews are self segregating from muslims." I have to you many times and you deliberately choose to ignore me.Israel does not define Jews, Christians or Muslims by race. All 3 religious groups come in every skin colour and from all over the world. Using the term "race" would b e impossible. The Israeli state government does not separate Muslims from Jews from Christians. You have not been to Israeli hospitals, schools, its court system, its government ministries, its gas stations, its grocery stores. If you did you would know what you say is crap. What I can explain is you repeat myths, lies and made up fabrications because you have n ever been to Israel and clearly you have no clue how Muslims. Jews and Christians define each other and themselves. You stated: "You need a history book, UN has recently spoken about the need for reparations to original north americans for racial terrorism against original people in north america. Canada has a long history of afro-phobia and anti-original hatred and terrorism." Yah provide me that book, you know the one that says we Jews define ourselves as a race. I would love to see it. Go on provide the UN speech that used the above words. I again call you out as someone who fabricates with no citations and tries to pass it off as fact. As for needing a history book, this is laughable from someone who thinks Israel defines Jews let alone Muslims s a race or that we Jews define ourselves as a race. You show absolute and total ignorance of not just Jewish history and anthropology but the same with Christians and Muslims. You stated: "You can't say one race should have a country but it is wrong for another race to have a school." I said, people have as history has shown, that they can and will define themselves in nationalist terms and then create countries based on those nationalist Identities and I have no reason to tell them they can't have countries. What you want me to tell Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania, Israel, Eire, Italy, Germany, China, the Czech Republic, the Slovak Republic, Belgium, the Vatican, Britain to disband? Would you like that? How about Thailand and India and all Muslim states, should they all disband? Should Tibet cease making references to Buddhism? Should we disband Liberia and Nigeria and South Africa? Hey should we not disband all the states since they are based on colonial racist definitions? we;;? How far you want to take your selective bigotry? I have stated in the case of Europe many of those national identities were inter-linked with a definition of their states also being Christian in religious context. England remains an Anglican state religiously but its nationalist identity is more than just Anglican identity. Many European countries still have enshrined in their constitutions and government symbols references to Christianity. Muslim states do not separate their religion from government and its laws. Zero distinction. India is a pluralistic nation tolerant of Muslims, Christians, Siekhs and Jews, but its government is very deeply connected to the religion of Hinduism. Thailand is very intricately linked to the philosophy of Buddhism. For centuries the religion of Shintoism and the state of Japan were one and the same. This is precisely why I never said a race should have a country that is your notion not mine. What a dumb thing for anyone to say. I believe nationality as an identity, as a collective identity is based on a multitude of cultural factors that may include cultural, ethnicity, gender, gender identity, geographic location, diet, religion, ecology, proximity to the equator, oceans, waterways, desert, earthquake zones, mountains but no I do not use the term race you do. You use the term race not me. Not me,. For me the term is an outmoded simplistic term people with lmited cognitive development use since the idea their may be power than black and white out there petrifies them. What I did say is Israel has as much right for its Jewish people to create a state for Jews as Eire does for the Irish or China for Chinese or Italy for Italians, or Britain for Anglicans or Brits, or Scotland for Scots, or Lithuania for Lithuanians, or Muslim states for Muslims. That's what I stated. I stated you are a bigot for thinking a Muslim can have a Muslim state, but a Jew can't have a Jewish state. I call t hat bigotry. Jews define ourselves as a nationality as Italians do their people or Irish their people. Our laws that provide expedited citizenship process is no different than the very same laws for 125 other indetified ethnic groups who have the same law of return with nations matching up to their ethnicities. Being Jewish is not about skin colour. Its about a collective link to the Jewish heritage. I said in my opinion creating a nation based on nationality is a reality, its a fact and I have no problem with it. I think its unrealistic to use selective outrage to only single out European countries or countries with Christians or Jews as being suspect. All countries were started based on collective identities. No I do not think in Canada today, in our democracy, segregating students in public school based on religion, race, gender, gender preference, height, weight, skin colour, nose size, makes any sense. No I do not think tax payers money should be used so that it encourages people to break down into different tribes with separate interests. That to me is a recipe for bigotry and intolerance Now stop misrepresenting me. Clearly you can't grasp the difference between race, nationality and religion so you assume I don't. I do you do not. So don't lump them or me into your simplistic notions and assume we are one and the same. I am not your Jew. I am my own Jew. You do not define me or any Jew. I do not tell you what being black is so don't tell me what being a Jew is. Edited March 25, 2017 by Rue 1 2 Quote
GostHacked Posted March 26, 2017 Report Posted March 26, 2017 18 hours ago, Rue said: Now stop misrepresenting me. Ahaha, interesting to see you call someone else on it, but when I call you out on it, all I get is more of the same. Well you get what you give. 1 Quote
hot enough Posted March 27, 2017 Report Posted March 27, 2017 On 3/25/2017 at 5:16 PM, Rue said: Hernanday you stated:"Jews Jew is. What copy of the bible did you copy and paste? 1 Quote
H10 Posted March 27, 2017 Report Posted March 27, 2017 On 3/25/2017 at 1:11 PM, Rue said: No not at all and let's not change the thread topic. I will try keep this brief and suggest if you want to start yet another thread on rationalizing segregated classes do so under the appropriate thread. The fact that Britain is an Anglican nation does not mean its schools only can be Anglican. And the fact that Israel is a jewish state, not a jewish nation, but a jewish state, means that even if arabs form a majority, jews rights take precedence over Arabs, which is why it is indeed Israeli apartheid. When you declare a country a racial state, you must by nature engage in steps of segregation and apartheid to preserve. On 3/25/2017 at 1:11 PM, Rue said: The segregation you propose is based on the categorization of people by skin colour. The fact a country is Jewish, Christian, Muslim, is one thing. The fact it might segregate its schools based on skin colour, religion, political belief would be another. In a perfect world there would have been no need for Zionism and Israel. It came about as a last resort existential response because Jews were discriminated in the Muslima nd Christian worlds. Had Christian and Muslim nations not discriminated against, massacered and defined us Jews as Christ killers, infidels, khafir, we of course would have never had to go out and create a nation. SO Israel segregates based on religion, and religious segregation is cool but racial segregation is wrong. Now here is the rub, most jews in Israel are actually athiest or non-practicing and therefore not even religious jews, but actually racial jews. Thus Israel is not a jewish state in the sense of a religion like the vatican being a catholic state, Israel is a jewish state in a strict racial sense as in being a country for people who are racially jewish, which is why even athiest jews can make ayat. Yes but whites (and every other race) discriminated in the history books against african original people of canada. Therefore, they have the same claim to have their own schools as jews do for their own nation. On 3/25/2017 at 1:11 PM, Rue said: That said in Canada it is a crock to argue blacks should be segregated from whites in schools because this will be good for their self esteem. I disagree with you the same reason I disagree with sending my children to private Jewish schools. I do not think segregation is the way to promote tolerance. So you agree we should dismantle the state of Israel. On 3/25/2017 at 1:11 PM, Rue said: In Israel and you've never been there, you have no idea how the public schools work. If you did you would understand the issue of Israel as a Jewish state, and who goes to public schools is not one and the same and the public schools do not segregate based on religion, skin colour, culture. People can opt out and send their children to ultra-orthodox Jewish or Sharia law schools or Christan schools. They have that option. I understand arabs cannot go to public schools with jews in most cases and don't even speak the same language. You really think arab kids in jewish settlements can go to school with jews? On 3/25/2017 at 1:11 PM, Rue said: There is nothing hypocritical about what I said. You are under the mistaken impression because you won't travel to Israel or take the time to even understand what goes on within it, that its being a Jewish state was created to serve as a refuge, a state guarantee that Jews would be protected not exterminated by the state. It did not and does not segregate. Segregation has happened on the West Bank or in Gaza because Hamas, and the PA threatened to kill Palestinians who lived side by side Jews and I was there and witnessed that so don't even presume to tell me otherwise. As well I witnessed first hand the people who have chosen to segregate were extremist Jews and Muslims or fundamentalist orthodox Jews and Muslims and Christians. They did so on an individual basis because of their extremist religious beliefs. The afrocentric schools and community serve as a refuge to original people so they won't be exterminated too. Why did Jews leave Europe and move to Israel but to move away from integrated socieites and segregate themselves into a giant segregationist state? On 3/25/2017 at 1:11 PM, Rue said: Then there has been terrorism-something you do not understand that now causes Palestinians and Israelis to be afraid of each other. It is their fear that is stoked by terrorism deliberately so they will not trust one another. That's the point of terrorism-to get in people's heads and have them cower from each other. The person who made these calls, has clearly some serious mental illness. If it was caused by a brain tumour we will find out. On the other hand if this guy was an extremist hater, he should be called out as that. Either way once again Israel caught a person engaging in terror. That is the point not segregation, not Muslim victims, not Jewish victims. The use of such events to piss on Israel is old that on this forum. The usual individuals come out on cue and piss. Look, there are some jews who are self hating, but it is no surprise, jews were told they were scum for years so some believe it. What else is a person going to think when they are told they are scum daily. 2 Quote
Rue Posted March 27, 2017 Report Posted March 27, 2017 23 hours ago, GostHacked said: Ahaha, interesting to see you call someone else on it, but when I call you out on it, all I get is more of the same. Well you get what you give. Ahaha or is that tee hee. You call me out? You? Lol. Hear I am. What words did I misrepresent. Tee hee. Ahaha. 1 1 Quote
Rue Posted March 27, 2017 Report Posted March 27, 2017 (edited) 15 hours ago, hernanday said: Hernanday you stated: "And the fact that Israel is a jewish state, not a jewish nation, but a jewish state, means that even if arabs form a majority, jews rights take precedence over Arabs, which is why it is indeed Israeli apartheid." Your comment makes no logical sense. The fact that Israel is a Jewish state means it creates laws to protect Jews, i.e., it guarantees Jews from anywhere in the word can take political refuge as a citizen in Israel. Period. Israeli criminal laws, family laws, property laws, civil laws are not based on the laws being different for Jews than Arab Israelis. You would know that if you took the time to find out how the Israeli legal system works. You won't. Instead you continue to reflect your ignorance of the Israeli legal system. There is no precedence for Jews over non Jews in Israel. There is a law of return for Jews expediting their application for citizenship no different then how it works in over 125 other nations. Also get back to me when you have the integrity to acknowledge how Sharia law operates. You stated: "When you declare a country a racial state, you must by nature engage in steps of segregation and apartheid to preserve." Israel never defined itself as a racial state. You do. Israel is no more a racial state than the Vatican City is a racial state or England is a racial state or India is a racial state or Muslim states are racial states. Your comments make zero sense. Go on provide on written source by the state of Israel or by any Jew anywhere that defines their being Jewish as a racial identity. Go on. Either put up or shut up. Stop trying to pass of your mistaken subjective ignorance of what the Jewish state means as fact. You continue to repeat it means racial identity, back it up. The fact is you can not. You simply state uncited subjective false opinions based on your own false assumptions. You stated: "SO Israel segregates based on religion, and religious segregation is cool but racial segregation is wrong. " No Israel does not, individual Jews, Christians and Muslims might choose depending on their individual religious beliefs just like you want to, to opt out of certain state rights and laws. Again you show you do not read what I write or make any effort to find out how the laws of Israeli work. There is no state religious policy that says Muslims, Jews and Christians in Israel can not live together, go to school together, talk to one another. There is no law prohibiting all 3 from going to the same schools, hospitals, government ministries for services, owning property. The actual religious segregation that might go on is very much a feature of Ultra-Orthodox Jewish Law or Sharia Law in Muslim states that do all the things you falsely accuse Israel of and yet never have you once condemned Sharia Law or Muslim states for being Muslim. Interestingly the majority of the Ultra-Orthodox Jews who segregate do NOT accept that Israel should be a Jewish state. Zip over your head. There are in Israel security laws that apply equally to Jews, Muslims and Christians and impact on them all in terms of mobility and identification and what they can carry in and out of public or private sites. It is true without a specific security clearance a Jew, Muslim or Christian can not get access to certain jobs and that security clearance is dependent on either serving in the Israeli Defence Forces or government. There are Jews, Muslims and Christians who choose not to join tge IDF, or work in its government and may not have security clearance for certain jobs. The fact is some of the bravest soldiers in the IDF are Muslim, Druze and the IDF has soldiers of every skin colour, religion, gender, gender preference. You state: "Now here is the rub, most jews in Israel are actually athiest or non-practicing and therefore not even religious jews, but actually racial jews. " Again you continue to spew ignorant false assumptions about Jewish Israelis because its what you do-spew false assumptions about people you have no clue about and each time you do you show pre-meditated intent to exercise bigotry against Jews no different than the racism you think is targeted at black people or as you call them "African Canadians". You engage in the very bigotry you claim you fight. The fact is you don't have a clue about any Jew in Israel nor do you speak for all blacks in Canada. Go on tell all West Indian blacks to t call themselves Africans. Give it a rest with your "African" label, I've been there when blacks have stood up and said stop referring to them as African they are CANADIAN. You stereotype based on your bigoted assumptions. Most Jews are what is called secular. The fact they are secular does not make them atheist, agnostic, or anything else. The fact they don't practice their religion formally does not mean they are not Jewish spiritually or religiously and no being secular does not mean you then only define yourself as a race. These are all ignorant false bigoted stereotypes you create. Most Jews like me in or out of Israel define our identity as a collective one with components including ethnicity, culture, religion but most importantly a shared sense of awareness of how we were and are perceived negatively by non Jews like you. Our identity has evolved over thousands of years and its long past simply defining us by what prayers we say, how we dress and never have any of us defined ourselves as a race because it would be foolish to as we come in every colour and shape there is. You continue to spew drivel over and over without citation, without source as if its fact. Our collective identity is not that different than how gays express their identity or how Jamaicans define themselves or Irish or Italians express their identities or how ethnic groups in over 125 nations including Lithuania, Estonia, Latvia, Ukraine, Czech Republic, Slovak Republic, China. Taiwan, South Korea, Japan, Belgium, define themselves. You stated: "Thus Israel is not a jewish state in the sense of a religion like the vatican being a catholic state, Israel is a jewish state in a strict racial sense as in being a country for people who are racially jewish, which is why even athiest jews can make ayat." You have provided zero citation, zero proof, zero substance to back up the above. In fact you have provided zero evidence that Israel and Jews define ourselves as a race because its false, and you can't find one citation to that effect. Israel is in fact serves the exact function for the Jewish religion as the Vatican does for Catholics or England does for Anglicans. Exactly the same. However it goes further. It does not just provide that but also provides for non religious Jews a service that identifies their being Jewish not as a religious concept but a nationalist once. It does both. Your mind can't conceive the Jewish identity can be based on more than one component so you project that it must either be a religious or race identity concept. It's religious, ethnic, cultural, national, political. It's a mix of all of those but its not racial. You stated: "Yes but whites (and every other race) discriminated in the history books against african original people of canada. Therefore, they have the same claim to have their own schools as jews do for their own nation." Your comment makes no sense. If it did every single people who identifies themselves as not being white should have segregated schools in Canada because they have no other choices. This country has an enshrined constitution protecting everyone unlike the countries Jews once lived in, when in Europe or Muslim nations. You have choices. You have laws that protect you.You have human rights laws, a constitution, a criminal code. Your comments define people using racist ideology "white skin" "black skin". White is a racist definition. It has no meaning in science. It is a subjective term used by those who define people based on the pigmentation of their skin. As such its idiotic. Its primal. Its based on primal behaviour when as apes we defined our packs by the colour of our fur. Its time for you to evolve. You stated: "So you agree we should dismantle the state of Israel." No I stated Israel has the right to be a Jewish state as Muslim states are Musli, the Vatican City is Catholic, England is Anglican or how Eire defines Irish, Italy, Italians, the Czech Republic Czechs. Repeating falsehoods won't change what I say or magically make sense of your bigoted stereotypes. You stated: "I understand arabs cannot go to public schools with jews in most cases and don't even speak the same language. You really think arab kids in jewish settlements can go to school with jews?" You don't understand, you assume. You assume with no citations, no sources, no proof. Its what you do, pass off bigoted false statements you fabricate and pose as facts. Your comments are false. I went to Hebrew University with Muslims. Christians, Jews, Bahaiis, Hindus, Buddhists. Nothing stops anyone from going to public schools that are mixed. Nothing. There are however parents who use your reasoning and choose to segregate their children in private schools for various reasons. In many cases its Muslims because of their Sharia law beliefs that withdraw their children from any contact with non Muslims or Ultra-Orthodox Jews for the same reason. It has nothing to do with the state. As well your other comment is as I already stated false and you can repeat it until doomsday but its false. The majority of Arab Israelis and Jewish Israelis can speak each other's language. The state of Israel is trilingual, English, Hebrew and Arabic. You would know that if you climbed down out of your bigoted ghetto and for once just once tried to find out about a country and people you make no effort to. You stated: "The afrocentric schools and community serve as a refuge to original people so they won't be exterminated too." Your comment above shows you have zero credibility. Even the majority of parents who feel their children should go to afrocentric schools don't claim the above. In fact I am sympathetic with some parents who want afrocentric schools no different then I am for parents who wanted a school for gays or aboriginals. They wanted to find a way to stop their kids from dropping out. They talked of their kids feeling alienated and needing to feel something extra to make it in the school. In that sense I get it. As a last resort educational assistance tool I get it. No I don't get it when people like you hijack it to perpetuate propaganda that is about justifying racism against whites. For you to even suggest these schools were set up to avoid extermination shows the ridiculous depths of your bigotry that causes you to engage in such rhetoric. What would you now like to suggest a holocaust is going on in Canada against afrocentric Canadians? You asked: "Why did Jews leave Europe and move to Israel but to move away from integrated socieites and segregate themselves into a giant segregationist state?" Jews left Europe the same reasons they left the Muslim world. THEY DID NOT HAVE THE CHOICE MKINORITIES TODAY HAVE IN CANADA. The states they lived in did not separate state from religion and so institutionalized religious beliefs through their laws that defined Jews as inferior and not capable of the same legal rights. So Jews created a state that levelled the playing field and said the state guarantees they have a right to be Jews and not fear discrimination by the state but instead protection. In an ideal world without discrimination by Christians and Muslims this never would have had to evolve. The fact is Canada has a system that does not require minorities have to engage in such measures anymore. Interestingly you continue to equate creating a state as being no different an exercise than creating a school. Youclaim two are the same in concept. Yet in your convaluted world where you think blacks should have states and schools and Muslims should have states and schools, you do no think Jews should have states or schools. That makes you a bigot, You create one standard for blacks and/or Muslims, but another for Jews. If you truly believed setting up a state and school is no different, then you would argue Jews have a right to both a state and separate school. You don't. You argue blacks and Muslims can have states and schools, but not Jews Even using your ridiculous reasoning you show bigotry and inconsistency. I will state it again. Israel was created as an existential response to the holocaust. The Jews that fled to Israel from Christian and Muslim states had no choice. Me? I have a choice. I was born in a country where the police do no hunt me down and kill me. I live in a state where the constitution defines me as equal in rights as any other person. I live in a state that gives me all the democratic freedoms my ancestors never had. As a result I do not need to or choose to live in Israel. I had a choice. I was damn lucky I had a choice, and my choice means I am loyal to the country that gives me such rights. Does Canada have problems. You bet. Is it exterminating blacks...put your racist rhetoric to bed. As is the case of every minority of every skin shade we have had our confrontations with bigotry . Most of us do not choose to withdraw and create our own worlds. We know that won't solve the problem just avoid dealing with it. I speak for me no one else. I take the free choices and rights I have in Canada and embracedthem and fight back to achieve my equality if I have to. Its something that comes from working hard and not expecting or feeling entitled to automatic rights. Don't you even attempt to suggest there's a holocaust going on in Canada to justify your racist beliefs. There is not. You want to engage in racist ideology don't equate it to Zionism or others who have liberated ourselves from oppression. Zionism has never defined Jews as a race or Arabs as a race or inferior to us. The Laws of Israel are not that different from Canada's except they tend to allow Muslims to opt put of state laws a lot more than we do in Canada. You stated: "Look, there are some jews who are self hating, but it is no surprise, jews were told they were scum for years so some believe it. What else is a person going to think when they are told they are scum daily." Its the only thing in your clumsy away I appreciate. Yes there are some Jews no different than with other minorities such as gays, blacks, whites, women etc., who self-hate. They take on extreme ideology designed to make them invisible to the people they think hate them. They in fact engage in a psychological exercise of pre-empting the bigot's concept of them by accepting it thinking then that bigot will no longer hate them. Go on, provide to me the leftist trendy Jews in France who claimed its only Zionist Jews that are hated when there were Muslim extremist attacks on innocent Jewish civilians in France. You think he terrorists asked those Jews if they were Zionists? Read back how you label people as white or stereotype Israeli Jews, Israeli Arabs. You are a bigot, pure and simple and your words are just preconceived biases based on ignorance. Get it clear. I am not white. I am a Jew with greenish-grey-pink skin. When I say I am a Jew it does not mean a race, and it sure as hell does not mean I am not Canadian or that I hate Muslims, blacks or anyone else. My concept of Judaism is not different than Martin Luther King's concept of Christianity. His being black or Christian made no difference. He practiced the exact same moral beliefs as I did. He came to my synagogue and spoke. He was that day he came a Jew not just a Christian. He transcended what you call skin colour. He embraced our souls and spoke to our souls. In fact I am going to go so far as to say years later believe it or not so did Pierre Trudeau. . For that matter neither did Stephen Harper-he never minced his words about terrorism being wrong whoever did it. I heard his speech. He clearly stated the same rights for Israelis and Palestinians, no double talk. He never minced words about China. This current PM to me is a reverse bigot. He spews bigotry in the name of specific groups over others. I don't like it. I don't like how he plays minorities off against one another any more than I like when you do it or the people use such incidents that started this thread to do it. The person who engaged in this act was wrong. They were caught. Period. If they are genuinely mentally ill and defective due to a tumour so be it. If they had full competence at the time of their actions, that makes them a hateful, dangerous, moron and border-line terrorist. Thank God no one died as a result of this idiot's calls. How many copy cats he will inspire I do not know. I also stated Muslims spoke out when these threats were happening defending Jewish people just as Jews have done in reverse. Thank God. It could have easily as inspired some nut case. I state it again. The majority of us who you do not speak for of any minority group do not hate each other. We do not agree with violence expressed by anyone. No one should use any religion to justify terrorism nor should people use such incidents to try incite Muslims against Jews, or anyone against anyone else. Edited March 27, 2017 by Rue 1 2 Quote
H10 Posted March 28, 2017 Report Posted March 28, 2017 On 3/25/2017 at 7:16 PM, Rue said: Hernanday you stated: "Jews are a race according to many jews, so you propose racee based segregation in a jewish state." Bull sheeyat, No Jew refers to being Jewish as a race. Provide the proof. You fabricated that. Go on provide on Jew calling himself a race. I'd love to see the passage. Please do not tell me how I define myself or how other Jews define ourselves. All that does is show you are a presumptuous bigot in your approach to Jews as a people. The exercise of defining Jews as a race was invented by Nazis. No we do not define ourselves as a race you do as evidenced in your further comment: "Jews are a race so it is segregation." "DNA Links Prove Jews Are a 'Race,' Says Genetics Expert" " Ostrer, who is also director of genetic and genomic testing at Montefiore Medical Center, goes further, maintaining that Jews are a homogeneous group with all the scientific trappings of what we used to call a “race.” "Jews were considered by gentiles (and usually referred to themselves) as a “race.” read more: http://www.haaretz.com/jewish/news/dna-links-prove-jews-are-a-race-says-genetics-expert-1.428664 On 3/25/2017 at 7:16 PM, Rue said: Your comment shows not only you are ignorant of how we Jews define ourselves but you are a bigot who patronizes and presumes to tell we Jews who we are. No we do not define ourselves as a race. What a stupid thing to say. Jews are of every skin colour and genetic variety. We go from coal black to albino white-from Chinese to Indian to African to Arab to "white". What a stupid thing to say. You are ignorant on how jews define themselves. On 3/25/2017 at 7:16 PM, Rue said: Zionism never defined Jews as a race, Neither does our religion If you want to continue to be ignorant and insist on being ignorant about how we Jews define yourself no one can stop you and it simply manifests your deliberate bigotry and ignorance of Judaism and Zionism and how the two do not even define Jews the same way. Zionism redefined a Jew as anyone who was persecuted politically for being Jewish. It did not define Jews in religious terms but in terms of a nationalist identity in need of sufferage, of liberation from people just like you-ignorant bigots who used their state governments to persecute us. In Judaism , we Jews are defined as the descendants of the Hebrews, a collective of people who were said to promise God that in return for praying to God through a collective and not as individuals, God would remember us through that collective and not as individuals. The device of collectivity when praying to God was a theological exercise in keeping pur people on the verge of being wiped out, united. You have been told that by me many times. You deliberately have ignored me when I have pointed that out. Now you fabricate Jews define ourselves as a race again. Its a tiresome false canard. Get it clear. There is no such thing as race. Its a social construct proven to be absurd. You can have a white man and a blaxck man wh o have more in common genetically than two white or two black men. Skin colour does not define a race. Race was created as a concept duringf a time when skin colour, the texture of hair, the shape of nose and eyes was thought to define race. Science now proves it does not. Such things are secondary genetic characteristics, and irrelevant to the actual genetic makeup of all of us. In reality there is no race. Skin colour, nose shape does not make race. The term is antiquated, You use it because that is how you see blacks v.s. whites and whit you think you can define people as black and segregate them. Zionism did not ever believe in or claim segregation of Jew from anyone. It proposed state protection of Jews, period. Race is a concept, jews are a race of people according to the experts and common usage. If race don't exist, good luck convincing people Hitler is racist, if race doesn't exist how can you be racist? And if Jews are not a race, how can Hitler be racist to a group who isn't even a race? On 3/25/2017 at 7:16 PM, Rue said: You can repeat until doomsday falsehoods about Zionism, Judaism, all you want but it won't make them true. As well for someone who calls Jews a race go on explain how a Felashie Jew who is black using your terms. or an Indian Jew or a Chinese Jew or an African Jew is the same race as a white Jew or Mitzahi-Tsfardic Jew. Go on explain. Explain how dark brown Jews, yellow Jews, coal black Jews, Caucasian Jews using your ridicullus terms are once race. Then you made this comment: "Yeah because Canada which has a long history of being discriminatory and racist towards african canadians and original people is somehow better than the muslims and christians in europe who were tolerant of jews." Again your ignorance of Jewish history in Europe speaks loud and clear. You pretend you've never heard of what happened to Jews in the holocaust or prior to that in Europe. Poof anti Semitism, pogroms, slaughters hat continued for 3,000 years then a holocaust nope not in your world right? Oh but wait the Muslim world according to you with its defining of Jews as Dhimmi/khafir, hell that's not apartheid. Who Muslims define us as cursed infidel and who to this day refer to us in the Koran as monkeys to be wiped out-oh hell they loved us in the Muslim world and still do. This is why so many of us move to Iran, Iraq, Syria, Yemen Saudo Arabia, they just love us. Tell me you claim Canada has a long history of discrimination towards African Canadians. You even know what the word African Canadian means? Well do you? Well hey now, do African Jews come under your definition? Do white and Indo-Chinese Africans come under your definition? How about white refugees from Africa? Oh hell no. If they aint black you don't want them in your schools. Go on spit it out. You don't mean African Canadians, you mean black African Canadians. None of those groups are considered as Africans. And if your entire claim is that Jews deserve a homeland for being discriminated in Europe, and they should have their own schools, it is silly to deny that to every other aggrieved minority group from race or religious reasons. Heck the mormons made their own state for discriminatory avoidance reasons and have their own schools. And THEY ARE WHITES! The term black is hostile, its like calling a jew a vermin or untermenschen. On 3/25/2017 at 7:16 PM, Rue said: Interesting how you avoid the world black with your African description before the name Canadian. What you think I wouldn't notice? Lol. Its precisely your kind of racial stereotyping Martin Luther King and even Malcolm X rejected. Your notion of race is based on your personal views which you think Jews and blacks and Arabs and other minorities use. Guess what we do not. You do. You speak for yourself and a minority of black bigots who are no different than white ones. Most jews think of themselves as a race, most whites did too, and the research from the jew newspaper proved it above. On 3/25/2017 at 7:16 PM, Rue said: Let me burst your bubble. The pan-Arab definition of Arab reintroduced by Gamel Nasser was no different to Muslims in the Middle East than how Jews defined themselves in Israel. Arabic is to the Arab people as Hebrew is to the Jewish people. This is not true, because no one ever describes Hebrews as a race but describes jews as a race. Arabic is sometimes counted as a broadly speaking racial group. On 3/25/2017 at 7:16 PM, Rue said: Now you stated: "Israeli jews don't even go to school with israeli arabs and they largely speak different languages anyhow." The above is false. Public schools are open to Christians, Muslims, Jews. Arabic, Hebrew and English are taught in the schools. Not according to the information I've seen it said arabs are taught in arabic, jews in hebrew. I highly doubt in the segregated settlements, kids are learning Hebrew in the west bank where there is israeli occupation. On 3/25/2017 at 7:16 PM, Rue said: People have the option to opt out and send their children to private schools. You are absolutely dead wrong and you continue to spew out fabricated b.s. you try pose as fact with no citations. You've never been to Israel. You have no clue about it and you again show this repeated ignorance. Most Israelis speak Arabic and most Arab Israelis speak Hebrew. I went to Hebrew University of Jerusalem with Buddhist, Christian, Hindu, Jewish, atheist, Siekh, Bahaii, Muslim students. You are full of it. Most Israelis do not speak Arabic, what a croc, knowing 5 words doesn't mean you speak arabic. What about the elementary and highschool in israel with rigid segregationa nd apartheid. On 3/25/2017 at 7:16 PM, Rue said: You stated: "This is why Israel is called an apartheid state." Yes by you. Its based on your ignorant false misunderstandings of how Jews define ourselves. You think we define ourselves as a race. You have no clue how we define ourselves. You've never been to Israel. You haven't a clue that Israeli Muslims, Christians, Jews Bahaiis, atheists, go to the same schools, hospitals, universities-shop in the same stores, elect members to the same government. You have zero clue. In fact apartheid is a term invented by people who were not referring to Israel but occupied land in Gaza and the West Bank. In fact Jews and Muslims and Christians all live in segregated areas on the West Bank and in Gaza and that has happened due to political and religious extremism that preceded Zionism and is not the result of any one specific ideology let alone government action. I did not invent the term Israeli apaartheid. I don't think jews define themselves as a race, jewish experts say so, your beef is with jews, I am only repeating what the jewish media is reporting. No, Arabs do not go to the same school as israelis. " In October 2010 Richard A. Falk reported to the General Assembly Third Committee "It is the opinion of the current Special Rapporteur that the nature of the occupation as of 2010 substantiates earlier allegations of colonialism and apartheid in evidence and law to a greater extent than was the case even three years ago. The entrenching of colonialist and apartheid features of the Israeli occupation has been a cumulative process. The longer it continues, the more difficult it is to overcome and the more serious is the abridgement of fundamental Palestinian rights." On 3/25/2017 at 7:16 PM, Rue said: In your world you deliberately ignore that Muslim religion is not separate from state and so its legal and government systems through Sharia law impose Muslim ireligious beliefs that state Muslims can not live in the same neighbourhood as non Muslims and non Muslims must be segregated. Non Muslims are not considered able to have the same legal rights as Muslims. Non Muslims can not own land, have their own state, testify in court.This is what non Muslims have lived with for thousands of years in the Muslim world-a world of apartheid- a world of apartheid you won't acknowledge or discuss. Jews escaped this apartheid, this bigotry you defend. In your world someone who liberates themselves from apartheid and second class inferiority imposed on them, if they are a Jew is a racist and a segregationist. Talk about bigotry and double faced two standards by you defend racists and bigots as long as they do it against Jews. The double standard is all yours because you enjoy liberation while constructing apartheid against palestinians and attacking african canadians. On 3/25/2017 at 7:16 PM, Rue said: Never mind in Israel Muslims have every legal right no Jew has in a Muslim country. That you ignore. You ignore a Muslim can and does own land in Israel b ut a Jew can not in the Muslim world; Muslims have Judges, elected members of Parliament, doctors, lawyers, dentists all making a living in Israel. In fact some of Israel's most loyal citizens and bravest soldiers were and are Muslim. Who you have a clue about that? You? Over 125 legal rights organizations in Israel defending Muslim Israeli rights. Well of course you knew that because you also know that if a Jew were to form a political party let alone a human rights organization in a Muslim country they would be arrested and put in jail if not killed. Yah you knew that.. Then you made this comment: "So you jews have the right to go to your orthodox jew schools and muslims get sharia schools but you want to deny that to other races/religions, hypocrit!" You have again misrepresented what I actually stated and falsely accuse me of an opinion I do not have. I have stated repeatedly I would not send my children to a private Jewish school. I am a person who believes religion should be separated from public schools in Canada. I am not Israeli. What I did state was in Israel, Jews, Christians and Muslims have the equal right to opt out to private religious schools or stay in the public school system no different than in Canada. I have stated in Muslim sharia law nations, there is no equality. All schools are Sharia law schools. There is no separation of religion from schooling. You either are deliberately lying or you do not read what I write. Which one is it? Show one word from me where I said I want to deny you or anyone the right to segregate yourself. Go ahead. Lock yourself in a ghetto that fears whites and thinks if you run away from them it will empower you. I call that self defeating. What I have challenged is you thinking you have the right in a democracy, in this to demand public tax money be used to implement a school based on skin colour or religion and for that matter gender and gender preference as the criteria for admission to that school. I am well aware public schools in Toronto have been created for artists, gays and aboriginals and now blacks demanded the same right. I personally think the intent behind these schools was not based on bigotry but to help students not doing well in mainstream schools-however I think all such schools do is shelter students from conflict and not empower them but weaken them by doing that. On what logic does it make sense to force students into conflict, and if it is beneficially to force children into conflict, why not remove the state of israel and make the jews live under muslims sharia law and european government again, since if there is conflict it is good for them? You see this is the real double standard, you want gays, aboriginals, african canadians, and other ethnic and religious minorities (including catholics and other white groups) to be forced into conflict while shelter jews in Israel from conflict. If that ain't a double standard... That certainly seems highly beneficial for jews I suppose so I can see why you support. You'd have all the races and religions but jews in conflicting killing and beating each other to death while jews are nicely separated with their own things. On 3/25/2017 at 7:16 PM, Rue said: I believe the best way to deal with intolerance is the Jackie Robinson method-the method of Ghandi, Luther-King, or what my father and the Irish in my child neighbourhood taught me, to stand one's ground and if need be fight but stand tall. Short term pain for long term pain. My opinion is shared by most minorities. We don't ask for favours, just the same chance. I grew up a Jew in an Irish neighbourhood. I had my share of fights but they taught me self respect and the same people I fought with were the people most loyal to me. Conflict can be bad but it has to be dealt with-running from it won't make it go away. Except of course if you are a jew, then you shouldn't fight intolerance in an Islamic or European state, you should just run away and set up your own country and invade palestine, syria, egypt, iraq, and jordan. So if running from conflict isn't the answer, you agree with muslims that the state of israel should be removed and the jews can return to their respective european, latin, muslim and african and asian homelands? After all, those israeli jews, should return to russia, germany, france, afghanistan, argentina and fight discrimination, you can't deal with your problems by running. On 3/25/2017 at 7:16 PM, Rue said: What you propose is inherently racist. You want to be a racist knock yourself out. Have pride parades and make sure white people can't show up. Do a nose shape and skin colour test to determine who can show up at your parades. Determine if their hair is curly enough. Oh I get it. Just do not expect me to pay my tax dollars for you to do that any more than I should pay tax dollars to gay pride or Nazi pride or any other damn pride that segregates and discriminates. I am not denying you anything. Be a bigot just don't think I have to pay for it or democracy and freedom of speech means I have to support your bigotry. .What I am challenging is your right to expect a democratic government to favour your form of bigotry, period. Hey, everyone is paying for bigotry, this is Canada, we pay for the sharia schools, the racist harper government, the racist on welfare, why should racist get more schools, the Italian nazi immigrants got catholic schools. The german nazi immigrants got the publicly funded german school board, why should any other person be locked out on the grounds of alleged racism? On 3/25/2017 at 7:16 PM, Rue said: You stated: "Explain Israeli apartheid and segregation. Israel separates from the muslims, separation by race according to you is segregation, jews are self segregating from muslims." I have to you many times and you deliberately choose to ignore me.Israel does not define Jews, Christians or Muslims by race. All 3 religious groups come in every skin colour and from all over the world. Using the term "race" would b e impossible. The Israeli state government does not separate Muslims from Jews from Christians. You have not been to Israeli hospitals, schools, its court system, its government ministries, its gas stations, its grocery stores. If you did you would know what you say is crap. What I can explain is you repeat myths, lies and made up fabrications because you have n ever been to Israel and clearly you have no clue how Muslims. Jews and Christians define each other and themselves. You stated: "You need a history book, UN has recently spoken about the need for reparations to original north americans for racial terrorism against original people in north america. Canada has a long history of afro-phobia and anti-original hatred and terrorism." Yah provide me that book, you know the one that says we Jews define ourselves as a race. I would love to see it. Go on provide the UN speech that used the above words. I again call you out as someone who fabricates with no citations and tries to pass it off as fact. As for needing a history book, this is laughable from someone who thinks Israel defines Jews let alone Muslims s a race or that we Jews define ourselves as a race. You show absolute and total ignorance of not just Jewish history and anthropology but the same with Christians and Muslims. I did, I provided you peer reviewed research from a jew researcher. On 3/25/2017 at 7:16 PM, Rue said: You stated: "You can't say one race should have a country but it is wrong for another race to have a school." I said, people have as history has shown, that they can and will define themselves in nationalist terms and then create countries based on those nationalist Identities and I have no reason to tell them they can't have countries. What you want me to tell Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania, Israel, Eire, Italy, Germany, China, the Czech Republic, the Slovak Republic, Belgium, the Vatican, Britain to disband? Would you like that? How about Thailand and India and all Muslim states, should they all disband? Should Tibet cease making references to Buddhism? Should we disband Liberia and Nigeria and South Africa? Hey should we not disband all the states since they are based on colonial racist definitions? we;;? How far you want to take your selective bigotry? So then African Canadians should have their own separate country by your logic. On 3/25/2017 at 7:16 PM, Rue said: I have stated in the case of Europe many of those national identities were inter-linked with a definition of their states also being Christian in religious context. England remains an Anglican state religiously but its nationalist identity is more than just Anglican identity. Many European countries still have enshrined in their constitutions and government symbols references to Christianity. Muslim states do not separate their religion from government and its laws. Zero distinction. India is a pluralistic nation tolerant of Muslims, Christians, Siekhs and Jews, but its government is very deeply connected to the religion of Hinduism. Thailand is very intricately linked to the philosophy of Buddhism. For centuries the religion of Shintoism and the state of Japan were one and the same. This is precisely why I never said a race should have a country that is your notion not mine. What a dumb thing for anyone to say. I believe nationality as an identity, as a collective identity is based on a multitude of cultural factors that may include cultural, ethnicity, gender, gender identity, geographic location, diet, religion, ecology, proximity to the equator, oceans, waterways, desert, earthquake zones, mountains but no I do not use the term race you do. You use the term race not me. Not me,. For me the term is an outmoded simplistic term people with lmited cognitive development use since the idea their may be power than black and white out there petrifies them. Except most jews in israel practice no religion at all, and perceive themself a s a race. When they say the state of israel is a jewish state, they aren't talking about the jew religion but the jewish race! On 3/25/2017 at 7:16 PM, Rue said: What I did say is Israel has as much right for its Jewish people to create a state for Jews as Eire does for the Irish or China for Chinese or Italy for Italians, or Britain for Anglicans or Brits, or Scotland for Scots, or Lithuania for Lithuanians, or Muslim states for Muslims. That's what I stated. I stated you are a bigot for thinking a Muslim can have a Muslim state, but a Jew can't have a Jewish state. I call t hat bigotry. Jews define ourselves as a nationality as Italians do their people or Irish their people. Our laws that provide expedited citizenship process is no different than the very same laws for 125 other indetified ethnic groups who have the same law of return with nations matching up to their ethnicities. Being Jewish is not about skin colour. Its about a collective link to the Jewish heritage. I said in my opinion creating a nation based on nationality is a reality, its a fact and I have no problem with it. I think its unrealistic to use selective outrage to only single out European countries or countries with Christians or Jews as being suspect. All countries were started based on collective identities. If jews have the right to a state, so do original canadians, and at the very least a right to schools and self determination. O and jewish heritage of what? On 3/25/2017 at 7:16 PM, Rue said: No I do not think in Canada today, in our democracy, segregating students in public school based on religion, race, gender, gender preference, height, weight, skin colour, nose size, makes any sense. No I do not think tax payers money should be used so that it encourages people to break down into different tribes with separate interests. That to me is a recipe for bigotry and intolerance But canadaian tax payer dollars go to israel. we had bigotry and intolerance before we even had schools. On 3/25/2017 at 7:16 PM, Rue said: Now stop misrepresenting me. Clearly you can't grasp the difference between race, nationality and religion so you assume I don't. I do you do not. So don't lump them or me into your simplistic notions and assume we are one and the same. I am not your Jew. I am my own Jew. You do not define me or any Jew. I do not tell you what being black is so don't tell me what being a Jew is. Africans are the real jews. 2 Quote
Rue Posted March 29, 2017 Report Posted March 29, 2017 16 hours ago, hernanday said: I now note Hernanday has gone to this article: http://www.haaretz.com/jewish/news/dna-links-prove-jews-are-a-race-says-genetics-expert-1.428664 The problem is he has removed it from its actual context and meaning to try suggest all Jews define ourselves as a race which we do not do. In fact when the scientist he quotes refers as he does to a common genetic link he does not and has never used it in the manner Hernanday uses race. Hernanday also of course skipped the entire article. he stopped at the head-line and did not bother to read through the article. Here for example is something Hernanday ignored in the article he quotes: "Although he (Ostrer) readily acknowledges the formative role of culture and environment, Ostrer believes that Jewish identity has multiple threads, including DNA. He offers a cogent, scientifically based review of the evidence, which serves as a model of scientific restraint." The article he quotes as you can see from the above words makes it clear Ostrer that Jewish identity has multiple threads INCLUDING DNA. At no time did he l imit the definition of a Jew to a "race" In fact Ostrer's study proves a genetic link to the Middle East not a race. A "race" in the term Hernanday uses its not the term Ostrer would use it. In Ostrer's case it simply denotes genetic link that can be traced backwords. This is precisely why the article explains "race" as not the "race" Hernanday is using and Ostrer doesn't even use that word and this is why the article says: "However slight the differences (and geneticists now believe that they are significantly greater than 0.1%), they are defining. That 0.1% contains some 3 million nucleotide pairs in the human genome, and these determine such things as skin or hair color and susceptibility to certain diseases. They contain the map of our family trees back to the first modern humans. Both the human genome project and disease research rest on the premise of finding distinguishable differences between individuals and often among populations. Scientists have ditched the term “race,” with all its normative baggage, and adopted more neutral terms, such as “population” and “clime,” which have much of the same meaning. Boiled down to its essence, race equates to “region of ancestral origin.” I would expect Hernanday to type in Jews are a race on the internet, and jump at the first article he thinks says that without bothering to read what he quotes. However you'll need to do more than go to the head-line and stop there or assume its referring to Jews as being a race because its not what it said as was explained in: http://forward.com/culture/155742/jews-are-a-race-genes-reveal/ As this article said: Ostrer's work doesn't show Jews are a "race" but "shows that geographically and culturally distant Jews still have more genes n common than they do with non-Jews around them and that these genes can be traced back to the Levant, an area including modern-day Israel." It goes on to quote Ostrer who says: ”It shows we (Jews) share in a biological tapestry, and are connected by these genetic threads,” Ostrer was quoted as saying in the article. This article points out and Ostrer in fact stated that the DNA he found that links Ashkenazi (European) and Tsfardic (Mitzrahi, Arab) Jews, have markers shared by the present day Palestinians so of course Jews by themselves can't be a "race" but they most certainly have genetic links in common with themselves and Palestinians. The actual book Ostrer wrote, " Legacy: A Genetic History of the Jewish People, i Oxford University Press doesn't define Jews the way Hernanday does but it does map both the genes and the culture of Jews as they moved out from the Middle East throughout the world. He didn't write it to suggest Jews are a race like Hernanday or white supremacist bigots or Nazis use the term. Now what Hernanday has done is misrepresent this article he thinks he quotes because it in fact states and I quote: " Ostrer, who is also director of genetic and genomic testing at Montefiore Medical Center, goes further, maintaining that Jews are a homogeneous group with all the scientific trappings of what we used to call a “race.” "Jews were considered by gentiles (and usually referred to themselves) as a “race.” The above does not call Jews a race. The person who wrote the article that used a headline saying that but at no time did this Scientist use the word. He is referring o shared genetic characteristics of Jews and for that matter Palestinians. He doesn't use the term race because no scientist does anymore. In fact when Ostrer was asked what his study was doing he said in the article I quoted above that he had and I quote: “developed systematic ways to separate Jews from non-Jews.” In fact Hernanday does not understand that genetic commonality or genetic linkage doesn't prove a race it proves common genetic linkage. Hernanday can't decipher the two. He assumes if someone is genetically linked to another it makes them a race because in his mind genetic links mean race. They mean a lot of things including how to identify diseases but not race as in the term Hernanday uses. They most certainly do not show any Jew referring to themselves as a race. You won't find Hernanday can find one shred of proof that the Israeli government, any Zionist or even Ostrer has defined Jews as a race, but Ostrer would say he can prove Jews are linked together and can be traced back with Palestinians to the Middle East, and can be shown to share certain diseases, period. Now before I move on to explain in the next thread why Jews are not a race and again repeat Hernanday has failed to provide a shred of evidence any Jew refers to themselves as a race is because we do not. What did happen was that a bunch of nasty anti-semites started a myth that the majority of Ashkenzai Jews were not descended from Abraham but instead descended from pagan East Europeans concentred in the ancient Kingdom of Khazaria (now Ukraine and Western Russia). Two people in particular an anti semite called Koestler and a non scientist historic revisionist who is not even a historian but a political editorialist who removes historic events from heir actual context and gives them new political meaning, Shlomo Sands advanced this theory to suggest we Ashkenazi Jews are not Jews descended from the Middle East but converts with no link back to Israel. So this scientist simply examined the genetic data and proved them wrong. He never did it with the intent to suggest Jews were a race or Palestinians were a race but there are semites (Jews and Arabs) that come from the area today called Jordan, Israel and the Middle East. In fact Semite the word used for both was a language description that included Jews, some but not all Arabs and others now extinct. The fact that Jews and Palestinians have common genetic markers does not mean we are a different race than the rest of humanity but it can be used we can be traced back to the Middle East and have certain diseases in common. 1 1 Quote
marcus Posted March 29, 2017 Report Posted March 29, 2017 Of course Jews are not a race. Many Jews are not even semites. Many Jews are descendants of Khazars who converted to Judaism in the 8th century. They have no connection to Palestine. I wonder if the Jewish boy who sent in the bomb threats is actually mentally ill? Or was he doing this to create sympathy for Jews? We will see how this will unfold. 3 Quote "What do you think of Western civilization?" Gandhi was asked. "I think it would be a good idea," he said.
Rue Posted March 29, 2017 Report Posted March 29, 2017 http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/are-jews-a-nation-a-religion-or-a-race/http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/are-jews-a-nation-a-religion-or-a-race/ I ask you to refer to the above article because unlike Hernanday I want to point out I cite things, I don't fabricate. As this article states: "Although Jews usually, but not always, share a common gene pool, they are not a race because any non-Jew who converts to Judaism will be recognized as being Jewish by all those rabbis who share a commitment to the same denomination of Judaism as the rabbi who did the conversion. The dispute, in terms of conversion, is really not about who is a Jew, but who is a rabbi." It also goes on to state: But what about the Jewish law that defines a Jew as one who is born of a Jewish mother. Isn’t this evidence of Jewish racial thought? For Christians, who believe that only adult baptism by personal belief (Protestant), or infant/child baptism by an authorized church sacrament (Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox) makes one a Christian, it seems strange that children of any Jewish mother are Jewish; even if the father was not Jewish and they know little or nothing about Jewish beliefs. But Muslim law says the same thing: children of any Muslim father are Muslim even if the mother was not Muslim. In truth, Christianity is an unusually disembodied religion compared to Judaism and Islam and there is no reason other religions should be equally disconnected from the ethnic body of their believers. When it comes to Jews who are non-religious or even anti-religious, they are considered secular or cultural Jews, unless they as adults convert to another religion. It is true that Orthodox Jewish law still considers even apostates to be Jewish, but that is because for over fifteen centuries Jews were frequently subjected to persecutions and forced conversions, which meant that thousands of Jews who were baptized still believed in the One God of Israel, so Orthodox law still gave all of them the benefit of the doubt. Some Jews today who have converted to Christianity as part of a Protestant Fundamentalist denomination call themselves “Jews for Jesus” or Messianic Jews; but almost all non Orthodox Jews think they are simply mixed up. Like most nations, Jews have a national language, a shared history, which is much longer than most nations, and a style of cooking and thinking that is as distinctive as that of many other nations. " The article also explains that one thing Jews did not have and may other groups did for over 4,000 years as a lack of an independent state to call their own. It also explains as all Jews know: "The answer to the question of what are Jews is that Judaism and the Jewish People are so deeply intertwined they cannot and should not be separated. Individuals Jews act in all kinds of ways, but the historical community of Jews is a blend of Jews by birth (genes) and Jews by belief, behavior and belonging. New genetic studies show how over the centuries many non-Jews have entered the Jewish community and many Jews have voluntarily or not left the Jewish community. Today we can answer the complex question: are all present day Jews really the biological descendants of the Jews who inhabited the Land of Israel 3.000 years ago? The answer is: Yes and No. Most in part, but none totally. Genetic analysis does support the historical record of Middle Eastern Jews settling in North Africa during Classical Antiquity, actively proselytizing and marrying local populations, and, in the process, forming distinct populations that stayed largely intact for more than 2,000 years. The study, led by researchers at Albert Einstein College of Medicine of Yeshiva University, was published online August 6, 2012 in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. “Our new findings define North African Jews, and enhance the case for a biological basis for Jewishness,” said study leader Harry Ostrer, M.D., professor of pathology, of genetics and of pediatrics at Einstein and director of genetic and genomic testing for the division of clinical pathology at Montefiore Medical Center. However, as anyone who has been to present day Israel knows, Jews come in many shades and looks. This is because even in the diaspora, and even against the will of the ruling religious authorities, Jews have almost always, when they were free to do so, proselytized their neighbors, and quietly welcomed converts into the Jewish community, even against the formal rules of medieval rabbis. That is why most Jews in different geographical locations tend to look similar to the local majority after several generations. The rabbinical rule that one should not refer to any Jew’s convert status is evidence of the desire of Jewish leaders to keep proselytizing activities secret from the ruling religious authorities. In a previous genetic analysis, the researchers showed that modern-day Sephardic (Greek and Turkish), Ashkenazi (Eastern European) and Mizrahi (Iranian, Iraqi and Syrian) Jews that originated in Europe and the Middle East are more related to each other than to their contemporary non-Jewish neighbors, with each group forming its own cluster within the larger Jewish population. Further, each of the four geographical groups genes, demonstrated Middle-Eastern ancestry, plus varying degrees of inclusion of converts to Judaism from the surrounding populations. This is true even though two of the major Jewish populations — Middle Eastern and European Jews — were found to have diverged from each other approximately 2,500 years ago. The current study which extended the analysis to North African Jews, the second largest Jewish Diaspora group found that they also were more related to each other than to their contemporary non-Jewish North African neighbors. The study also included members of Jewish communities in Ethiopia, Yemen and Georgia. In all, the researchers analyzed the genetic make-up of 509 Jews from 15 populations along with genetic data on 114 individuals from seven North African non-Jewish populations. North African Jews exhibited a high degree of endogamy, or marriage within their own religious group in accordance with Jewish custom. Ethiopian and Yemenite Jewish populations also formed distinctive genetically linked clusters, as did Georgian Jews. Yet some converts to Judaism, and their genes, have always entered the Jewish gene pool. In the west today many converts are descendants of ex-Jews from previous generations who are now returning to the Jewish People, and bringing in some lost Jewish genes as well as some non-Jewish genes with them. " The above is something Hernanday clearly could not grasp when he skimmed through Ostrer's study. Jews by definition could never be defined as a race because we don't share one common ancestry and it explains why we have Jews from India, China, the Arab and African nations, Europe, South America. Israel is a Jewish nation but not all Jews are Israeli and Israel as a Jewish state does not define all Jews as Israelis only those that want to be Israeli. When we Jews call ourselves Jews we mean we are part of the Jewish people because we were born into a Jewish home and culturally identify as Jewish or because we practice the Jewish religion or self identify as a Jews. Our definition contains many parts. The cultural component could refer to food, customs, holidays, prayer rituals. Orthodox and Conservative Jews say Jewish identity is automatically bestowed on babies of Jewish mothers. However reform Jews, Humanist Jews and Reconsructionist Jews believe it can be passed on by the father too. Jews consider themselves Jewish and that for us does not necessarily mean we practice the religion formally. If we did, then that is part of the religious component of Judaism which refers to how Reconstructionist, Humanist, Reform. Conservative, Orthodox and Ultra Orthodox Jews practice the religion. Religion and culture are two of the components of identity. We Jews do not refer to ourselves as race because of Nazism and the fact it was a term used by anti-semites to describe us. Our identity has evolved over 4000 years to mean a distinct people, a follower of the Jewish religion, someone who identifies as an Israeli Jew, and it can mean in purely scientific terms a reference to people with common genetic linking markers. Now Hernanday has seen fit to lecture me and Jews telling us yet again how we define ourselves when in fact its him doing the defining and he shows his bigotry by presuming to shout me down and tell me who I am and now by taking an article out of context to define me in a way he does which it does not. So this is why he now says in the usual fractured syntax: "Race is a concept, jews are a race of people according to the experts and common usage." The only thing to date he has come up with for the above false statement is to remove a scientist's article from its proper context to suggest it defines race as he does which it does not. Then to compound his misrepresentation he turns Ostrer into a plural. Then he made this comment: "If race don't exist, good luck convincing people Hitler is racist, if race doesn't exist how can you be racist? And if Jews are not a race, how can Hitler be racist to a group who isn't even a race?" Hernanday will not take the time to think before he writes. The fact scientists have rejected race the way Hitler used it, does not mean Hitler did not use it in a certain way, Hernanday clearly can' grasp that. He can't grasp that to Hitler Jews were an inferior race but that did not make them a race or inferior. Then Hernandsay's lack of logic spins this: "None of those groups are considered as Africans. " Arab or Mitzrahi/Tsfardic Jews, and Felashie Jews and other Jews come of course from the African continent. Now Hernanday pretends people do not exist. He pretends no Jews came out of Morrocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Ethiopia. Then he states this: "And if your entire claim is that Jews deserve a homeland for being discriminated in Europe, and they should have their own schools, it is silly to deny that to every other aggrieved minority group from race or religious reasons. " I said Jews created a homeland of their own as a direct existential response to extinction in the light of the holocaust and continuing discrimination in Sharia law Muslim states. I also stated that this is a distinct issue than asking do people need to segregate their children in public schools. I said in Israel in fact public schools do not segregate children parents choose to do so on their own because Zionism does not believe in segregation and this is why Muslim and Christian Israelis, Bahaii Israelis, Druze Israelis, go to the same schools, hospitals, use the same public services, even buses. Hernanday deliberately chooses to ignore what I said and falsely claim things I never stated. He stated: "Heck the mormons made their own state for discriminatory avoidance reasons and have their own schools. And THEY ARE WHITES! The term black is hostile, its like calling a jew a vermin or untermenschen." The above has nothing to do with Jewish identity, how we Jews define ourselves yet at this point Hernanday has decided he's going to rant at Mormons. He also shows his ignorance of Mormons not understanding there are black and yellow Muslims using his terms. He again repeats showing his patronizing tone without any proof despite numerous requests: "Most jews think of themselves as a race, most whites did too, and the research from the jew newspaper proved it above.: So there we have it now he speaks not just for all Jews but all whites and he uses the term "Jew newspaper". In fact the article he quoted did not define Jews as a race he clearly did not read the "jew newspaper". Then he stated: "..no one ever describes Hebrews as a race but describes jews as a race. Arabic is sometimes counted as a broadly speaking racial group." Trying to decipher his babble is a challenge. Hebrews were a "people" or a "tribe" or a "collective", at the time of their existence in the Middle East everyone was black or dark skinned so calling people black would have made zero sense. Clearly Hernanday has a problem grasping people of the desert tend to be dark because of the sun. He also ays Arabic is counted as a broadly speaking racial group. Oh I am sure Muslims and Beduins and those people who call themselves Arabs woul love to hear him misrepresenting them as much as he does Jews. In fact Arabs like Jews self identify based on cultural, language, religion, a mix of things but not race. Like Jews they are of all shades of skin colour and mix-referring to themselves as a race is for them like it is for us Jews, a bigoted, insulting term used to put them down not understand them. Jews and Arabs as much as we conflict sure as hell know we aren't "races". Hernanday says: "Not according to the information I've seen it said arabs are taught in arabic, jews in hebrew." I said Jews and Muslims and Christians can and do go to the same schools in Israel or they can choose to segregate privately. I said they all learn Hebrew and Arabic and English and often speak other languages such as Russian, French, Farsi, Felashie. Yes Arabs are taught in Arabic and Jews in Hebrew. Arab Israelis are also taught Hebew and Jewish students Arabic and so on. I am still waiting for Hernanday to prove Arab Israelis don't learn Hebrew or Jewish Israelis Arabic. What a joke at this point. He's never been to Israel or lived there and presumes to tell me and Israeli Arabs and Jews the languages they speek "according to the information he's seen." Right. Then he says: "I highly doubt in the segregated settlements, kids are learning Hebrew in the west bank where there is israeli occupation." Actually Israelis in such settlements and Palestinians in their settlements on the West Bank are not in Israel. Their segregation is caused by the politics of an unresolved c conflict as to who has the right to the land. Its a battle not just between Israeli Jews and Palestinians, but between Israeli Muslims and Palestinians, Christian Palestinians and Muslim Palestinians, Christian Israelis and Muslim Palestinians and Muslim Palestinians versus Muslim Palestinians. Hernanday's simplistic generalizations can't conceive of the multi-lateral conflicts and how on the West Bank, in fact Israelis and Palestinians for practical purposes have learned each other's language because they have had to. He's never been there so prattles and spews fabricated crap. When he says: "Most Israelis do not speak Arabic, what a croc, knowing 5 words doesn't mean you speak arabic. What about the elementary and highschool in israel with rigid segregationa nd apartheid." The above again manifests someone who has never been to the West Bank or Israeli, has no clue what actually transpires there and fabricates stereotypes trying to pass them off as facts. Hernanday said: ". I don't think jews define themselves as a race, jewish experts say so, your beef is with jews, I am only repeating what the jewish media is reporting. No, Arabs do not go to the same school as israelis." Again Hernanday has provided no proof Jewish experts plural have defined Jews as a race. He's produced one article talking about common genetic markers a geneticist has found and then used that to continue stereotyping all Jews and telling them how they define one another and he can't even write it out without garbling the slurs. Then he provides this quote: " In October 2010 Richard A. Falk reported to the General Assembly Third Committee "It is the opinion of the current Special Rapporteur that the nature of the occupation as of 2010 substantiates earlier allegations of colonialism and apartheid in evidence and law to a greater extent than was the case even three years ago. The entrenching of colonialist and apartheid features of the Israeli occupation has been a cumulative process. The longer it continues, the more difficult it is to overcome and the more serious is the abridgement of fundamental Palestinian rights." Well last time I read the above I saw no reference to Jews as a race. Last time I looked Richard A. Falk was not Jewish. Hey the comment he quotes is not even remotely linked to his claim of race but hey why let that stop him. But hey according to Hernanday I practice apartheid against Palestinians and attack African Canadians: "The double standard is all yours because you enjoy liberation while constructing apartheid against palestinians and attacking african canadians." Yep that's rational, when in doubt, call names. Then I get more of the brilliant logic of Hernanday as he states "On what logic does it make sense to force students into conflict, and if it is beneficially to force children into conflict, why not remove the state of israel and make the jews live under muslims sharia law and european government again, since if there is conflict it is good for them? If someone can give meaning to such babble good luck. Last time I looked Muslims, Christians and Jews in Canada were not and are not bombing each other, attacking each other, involved in ancestral feuds. In Hernanday's world he's already suggested in his previous post that blacks are being attacked in Canada and their only hope is to segregate. Now he states: "You see this is the real double standard, you want gays, aboriginals, african canadians, and other ethnic and religious minorities (including catholics and other white groups) to be forced into conflict while shelter jews in Israel from conflict." Lol, no, I want gaysm aboriginals, Jews, blacks, whites to live with one another in Canada and learn to live with one another not hide and I thank God we have the laws and place where we have the opportunity to do that and because we don't have extremist terrorists preventing us from doing so. Also I doubt at this point anyone could explain to Hernanday that Israel does not shelter Israel from conflict and oh if It could be that easy, Then he again states "If that ain't a double standard... That certainly seems highly beneficial for jews I suppose so I can see why you support. You'd have all the races and religions but jews in conflicting killing and beating each other to death while jews are nicely separated with their own things." The double standard is in Hernanday believing Muslims should have Muslim states that discriminate against and define Jews as legally inferior and segregate them but if Jews create a state where this can't be done and they are guaranteed equality and freedom his double standard is what denies it. He also will not and can not find out what goes on in Israel for if he did the myth of his racial and apartheid accusations would blow up in his face. Then he patronizes me and says: "Except of course if you are a jew, then you shouldn't fight intolerance in an Islamic or European state, you should just run away and set up your own country and invade palestine, syria, egypt, iraq, and jordan. So if running from conflict isn't the answer, you agree with muslims that the state of israel should be removed and the jews can return to their respective european, latin, muslim and african and asian homelands? After all, those israeli jews, should return to russia, germany, france, afghanistan, argentina and fight discrimination, you can't deal with your problems by running." Babble. Hernanday equates Jews escaping from the holocaust and being forced to go there after W2 because no Euripean nations would take them back as the equivalent of what he thinks blacks are treated like in Canada today. He also ignores Jews were thrown out of the Arab world they didn't run they were forced out. He equates such events with what is happening to b lacks in Canada but he's so ridiculous he doesn't realize if he thinks there is a double standard he's created it. Why doesn't he take all the balcks he can find and return to Africa and create African states or go to the ones that are majority black? What's stopping him and his followers? They did it in Liberia. No one's stopping him Buh bye. Then he says: "Hey, everyone is paying for bigotry, this is Canada, we pay for the sharia schools, the racist harper government, the racist on welfare, why should racist get more schools, the Italian nazi immigrants got catholic schools. The german nazi immigrants got the publicly funded german school board, why should any other person be locked out on the grounds of alleged racism?" OK now we lum in Germans and Italians in the hate fest. Why not. Oh but wait Hernanday says: "I did, I provided you peer reviewed research from a jew researcher." Yes and that Jew researcher never defined the Jewish people as a race nor did he claim to speak for Jews. Ah but finally Hernanday said "So then African Canadians should have their own separate country by your logic." No I believe all Canadians need to embrace their Canadian identity. Hernanday at this point is so confused he does not realize he's the one proposing segregation and suggested blacks are under attack by whites so should segregate. Its his logic if we use that word, that calls on them to pull out of white society, so why stay in Canada, why not return to their ancestral homelands like Jews had to if he thinks blacks are undergoing the same treatment? Lol, maybe he should ask himself such questions. 1 3 Quote
Rue Posted March 29, 2017 Report Posted March 29, 2017 51 minutes ago, marcus said: Of course Jews are not a race. Many Jews are not even semites. Many Jews are descendants of Khazars who converted to Judaism in the 8th century. They have no connection to Palestine. I wonder if the Jewish boy who sent in the bomb threats is actually mentally ill? Or was he doing this to create sympathy for Jews? We will see how this will unfold. There we go. The Jews are Khazars myth. Lol on cue. 1 1 Quote
marcus Posted March 29, 2017 Report Posted March 29, 2017 4 hours ago, Rue said: There we go. The Jews are Khazars myth. Lol on cue. It must be difficult for you, when there is research like this, from an Israeli-American geneticist and bioinformatician with a doctorate in molecular evolution, showing how Ashkenazi Jews are descendants of Khazars. I guess he's another self-hating Jew who isn't trying to justify the Zionist narrative. If anyone is interested in learning more about the research, see the above link and see this article: The new research suggests that most of the Jewish population of northern and eastern Europe – normally known as Ashkenazic Jews – are the descendants of Greeks, Iranians and others who colonized what is now northern Turkey more than 2000 years ago and were then converted to Judaism, probably in the first few centuries AD by Jews from Persia. At that stage, the Persian Empire was home to the world’s largest Jewish communities. 4 Quote "What do you think of Western civilization?" Gandhi was asked. "I think it would be a good idea," he said.
H10 Posted March 30, 2017 Report Posted March 30, 2017 On 3/27/2017 at 2:23 PM, Rue said: Hernanday you stated: "And the fact that Israel is a jewish state, not a jewish nation, but a jewish state, means that even if arabs form a majority, jews rights take precedence over Arabs, which is why it is indeed Israeli apartheid." Your comment makes no logical sense. The fact that Israel is a Jewish state means it creates laws to protect Jews, i.e., it guarantees Jews from anywhere in the word can take political refuge as a citizen in Israel. Period. Israeli criminal laws, family laws, property laws, civil laws are not based on the laws being different for Jews than Arab Israelis. You would know that if you took the time to find out how the Israeli legal system works. You won't. Instead you continue to reflect your ignorance of the Israeli legal system. There is no precedence for Jews over non Jews in Israel. There is a law of return for Jews expediting their application for citizenship no different then how it works in over 125 other nations. Also get back to me when you have the integrity to acknowledge how Sharia law operates. You stated: "When you declare a country a racial state, you must by nature engage in steps of segregation and apartheid to preserve." Israel never defined itself as a racial state. You do. Israel is no more a racial state than the Vatican City is a racial state or England is a racial state or India is a racial state or Muslim states are racial states. Your comments make zero sense. Go on provide on written source by the state of Israel or by any Jew anywhere that defines their being Jewish as a racial identity. Go on. Either put up or shut up. Stop trying to pass of your mistaken subjective ignorance of what the Jewish state means as fact. You continue to repeat it means racial identity, back it up. The fact is you can not. You simply state uncited subjective false opinions based on your own false assumptions. Can Arabs invade Israeli land and set up Arabic colonies in Israel under Israeli law? If no, then there is a double standard. You just keep burying yourself deeper and deeper. The facts jews get to fast track return to Israel over non--ews is by definition race based discrimination. Because "athiest jews" can still get fast tracked returned back to Israel but non-jews cannot! Thus there is a preference for a Jew regardless of religion but rather race based. "The Rabbinate prohibits marriage in Israel of halakhic Jews (i.e. people born to a Jewish mother or Jewish by conversion), whether they are Orthodox Jews or not, to partners who are non-Jewish or who are of Jewish descent that runs through the paternal line (i.e. not Jewish according to halakha), unless they undergo a formal conversion to Judaism. As a result, in the state of Israel, people of differing religious traditions cannot legally marry someone in another religion and multi-faith couples must leave the country to get married. " wiki Israel is a racial state because it is defined as a jew state and jews are a race. A non-jew cannot even marry to a jew in israel and they pull books on interracial relations from israeli school. " Knesset renewed a contentious law that prevents Palestinians who marry Israelis from both receiving Israeli citizenship and from living within the Jewish State. " http://www.tabletmag.com/scroll/191711/knesset-extends-law-forbidding-palestinians-married-to-israelis-from-living-in-jewish-state " “If getting married halachically was made into a criminal act in any other country, we would fight it as anti-Semitism. But here in Israel, where absolute power has absolutely corrupted, hundreds — perhaps thousands — of young couples are forced to break the law in order to practice Judaism,” said Itim’s Farber. " http://www.timesofisrael.com/in-ottoman-holdover-israel-doubles-down-on-marriage-restrictions/ On 3/27/2017 at 2:23 PM, Rue said: You stated: "SO Israel segregates based on religion, and religious segregation is cool but racial segregation is wrong. " No Israel does not, individual Jews, Christians and Muslims might choose depending on their individual religious beliefs just like you want to, to opt out of certain state rights and laws. Again you show you do not read what I write or make any effort to find out how the laws of Israeli work. There is no state religious policy that says Muslims, Jews and Christians in Israel can not live together, go to school together, talk to one another. There is no law prohibiting all 3 from going to the same schools, hospitals, government ministries for services, owning property. The actual religious segregation that might go on is very much a feature of Ultra-Orthodox Jewish Law or Sharia Law in Muslim states that do all the things you falsely accuse Israel of and yet never have you once condemned Sharia Law or Muslim states for being Muslim. Interestingly the majority of the Ultra-Orthodox Jews who segregate do NOT accept that Israel should be a Jewish state. Zip over your head. There are in Israel security laws that apply equally to Jews, Muslims and Christians and impact on them all in terms of mobility and identification and what they can carry in and out of public or private sites. It is true without a specific security clearance a Jew, Muslim or Christian can not get access to certain jobs and that security clearance is dependent on either serving in the Israeli Defence Forces or government. There are Jews, Muslims and Christians who choose not to join tge IDF, or work in its government and may not have security clearance for certain jobs. The fact is some of the bravest soldiers in the IDF are Muslim, Druze and the IDF has soldiers of every skin colour, religion, gender, gender preference. You state: "Now here is the rub, most jews in Israel are actually athiest or non-practicing and therefore not even religious jews, but actually racial jews. " Again you continue to spew ignorant false assumptions about Jewish Israelis because its what you do-spew false assumptions about people you have no clue about and each time you do you show pre-meditated intent to exercise bigotry against Jews no different than the racism you think is targeted at black people or as you call them "African Canadians". You engage in the very bigotry you claim you fight. The fact is you don't have a clue about any Jew in Israel nor do you speak for all blacks in Canada. Go on tell all West Indian blacks to t call themselves Africans. Give it a rest with your "African" label, I've been there when blacks have stood up and said stop referring to them as African they are CANADIAN. You stereotype based on your bigoted assumptions. Most Jews are what is called secular. The fact they are secular does not make them atheist, agnostic, or anything else. The fact they don't practice their religion formally does not mean they are not Jewish spiritually or religiously and no being secular does not mean you then only define yourself as a race. These are all ignorant false bigoted stereotypes you create. Most Jews like me in or out of Israel define our identity as a collective one with components including ethnicity, culture, religion but most importantly a shared sense of awareness of how we were and are perceived negatively by non Jews like you. Our identity has evolved over thousands of years and its long past simply defining us by what prayers we say, how we dress and never have any of us defined ourselves as a race because it would be foolish to as we come in every colour and shape there is. You continue to spew drivel over and over without citation, without source as if its fact. Our collective identity is not that different than how gays express their identity or how Jamaicans define themselves or Irish or Italians express their identities or how ethnic groups in over 125 nations including Lithuania, Estonia, Latvia, Ukraine, Czech Republic, Slovak Republic, China. Taiwan, South Korea, Japan, Belgium, define themselves. You stated: "Thus Israel is not a jewish state in the sense of a religion like the vatican being a catholic state, Israel is a jewish state in a strict racial sense as in being a country for people who are racially jewish, which is why even athiest jews can make ayat." You have provided zero citation, zero proof, zero substance to back up the above. In fact you have provided zero evidence that Israel and Jews define ourselves as a race because its false, and you can't find one citation to that effect. Israel is in fact serves the exact function for the Jewish religion as the Vatican does for Catholics or England does for Anglicans. Exactly the same. However it goes further. It does not just provide that but also provides for non religious Jews a service that identifies their being Jewish not as a religious concept but a nationalist once. It does both. Your mind can't conceive the Jewish identity can be based on more than one component so you project that it must either be a religious or race identity concept. It's religious, ethnic, cultural, national, political. It's a mix of all of those but its not racial. You stated: "Yes but whites (and every other race) discriminated in the history books against african original people of canada. Therefore, they have the same claim to have their own schools as jews do for their own nation." Your comment makes no sense. If it did every single people who identifies themselves as not being white should have segregated schools in Canada because they have no other choices. This country has an enshrined constitution protecting everyone unlike the countries Jews once lived in, when in Europe or Muslim nations. You have choices. You have laws that protect you.You have human rights laws, a constitution, a criminal code. Your comments define people using racist ideology "white skin" "black skin". White is a racist definition. It has no meaning in science. It is a subjective term used by those who define people based on the pigmentation of their skin. As such its idiotic. Its primal. Its based on primal behaviour when as apes we defined our packs by the colour of our fur. Its time for you to evolve. You stated: "So you agree we should dismantle the state of Israel." No I stated Israel has the right to be a Jewish state as Muslim states are Musli, the Vatican City is Catholic, England is Anglican or how Eire defines Irish, Italy, Italians, the Czech Republic Czechs. Repeating falsehoods won't change what I say or magically make sense of your bigoted stereotypes. You stated: "I understand arabs cannot go to public schools with jews in most cases and don't even speak the same language. You really think arab kids in jewish settlements can go to school with jews?" You don't understand, you assume. You assume with no citations, no sources, no proof. Its what you do, pass off bigoted false statements you fabricate and pose as facts. Your comments are false. I went to Hebrew University with Muslims. Christians, Jews, Bahaiis, Hindus, Buddhists. Nothing stops anyone from going to public schools that are mixed. Nothing. There are however parents who use your reasoning and choose to segregate their children in private schools for various reasons. In many cases its Muslims because of their Sharia law beliefs that withdraw their children from any contact with non Muslims or Ultra-Orthodox Jews for the same reason. It has nothing to do with the state. As well your other comment is as I already stated false and you can repeat it until doomsday but its false. The majority of Arab Israelis and Jewish Israelis can speak each other's language. The state of Israel is trilingual, English, Hebrew and Arabic. You would know that if you climbed down out of your bigoted ghetto and for once just once tried to find out about a country and people you make no effort to. "Arabs banned in 4 Israeli cities from working in schools" Are jews banned from working in Israeli schools? I don't even believe that you have been to Israel, because most Israelis I know readily admit that Israeli is an apartheid state. "It's Time to Admit It. Israeli Policy Is What It Is: Apartheid" read more: http://www.haaretz.com/blogs/a-special-place-in-hell/1.671538 https://bangordailynews.com/2015/10/18/news/world-news/arabs-banned-in-4-israeli-cities-from-working-in-schools/?ref=comments "Apartheid means Likud lawmaker and former Shin Bet chief Avi Dichter calling Sunday for separate, segregated roads and highways for Israelis and Palestinians in the West Bank. Apartheid means hundreds of attacks by settlers targeting Palestinian property, livelihoods, and lives, without convictions, charges, or even suspects. Apartheid means uncounted Palestinians jailed without trial, shot dead without trial, shot dead in the back while fleeing and without just cause. Apartheid means Israeli officials using the army, police, military courts, and draconian administrative detentions, not only to head off terrorism, but to curtail nearly every avenue of non-violent protest available to Palestinians." read more: http://www.haaretz.com/blogs/a-special-place-in-hell/1.671538 You must think the entire world is blind to not see obvious Israeli apartheid. On 3/27/2017 at 2:23 PM, Rue said: You stated: "The afrocentric schools and community serve as a refuge to original people so they won't be exterminated too." Your comment above shows you have zero credibility. Even the majority of parents who feel their children should go to afrocentric schools don't claim the above. In fact I am sympathetic with some parents who want afrocentric schools no different then I am for parents who wanted a school for gays or aboriginals. They wanted to find a way to stop their kids from dropping out. They talked of their kids feeling alienated and needing to feel something extra to make it in the school. In that sense I get it. As a last resort educational assistance tool I get it. No I don't get it when people like you hijack it to perpetuate propaganda that is about justifying racism against whites. For you to even suggest these schools were set up to avoid extermination shows the ridiculous depths of your bigotry that causes you to engage in such rhetoric. What would you now like to suggest a holocaust is going on in Canada against afrocentric Canadians? It has already happened. On 3/27/2017 at 2:23 PM, Rue said: You asked: "Why did Jews leave Europe and move to Israel but to move away from integrated socieites and segregate themselves into a giant segregationist state?" Jews left Europe the same reasons they left the Muslim world. THEY DID NOT HAVE THE CHOICE MKINORITIES TODAY HAVE IN CANADA. The states they lived in did not separate state from religion and so institutionalized religious beliefs through their laws that defined Jews as inferior and not capable of the same legal rights. So Jews created a state that levelled the playing field and said the state guarantees they have a right to be Jews and not fear discrimination by the state but instead protection. In an ideal world without discrimination by Christians and Muslims this never would have had to evolve. The fact is Canada has a system that does not require minorities have to engage in such measures anymore. So why didn't the jews all just move to Canada, since it never had discrimination, why steal land from palestinian arabs? On 3/27/2017 at 2:23 PM, Rue said: Interestingly you continue to equate creating a state as being no different an exercise than creating a school. Youclaim two are the same in concept. Yet in your convaluted world where you think blacks should have states and schools and Muslims should have states and schools, you do no think Jews should have states or schools. That makes you a bigot, You create one standard for blacks and/or Muslims, but another for Jews. If you truly believed setting up a state and school is no different, then you would argue Jews have a right to both a state and separate school. You don't. You argue blacks and Muslims can have states and schools, but not Jews Even using your ridiculous reasoning you show bigotry and inconsistency. I never claimed jews shouldn't have a state, I did claim you were a hypocrite for trying to say jews should have a state but others shouldn't have a school. You then turned around and claimed racism wasn't a problem in Canada, which undermines your entire logic for jews having a state. If there is no racism in Canada ,as you claim thn why do jews need a state, you cannot have it both ways. Either racism is a serious problem enough to justify what you previously called segregation, or it isn't. If it isn't, then jew don't deserve a state. On 3/27/2017 at 2:23 PM, Rue said: I will state it again. Israel was created as an existential response to the holocaust. The Jews that fled to Israel from Christian and Muslim states had no choice. Me? I have a choice. I was born in a country where the police do no hunt me down and kill me. I live in a state where the constitution defines me as equal in rights as any other person. I live in a state that gives me all the democratic freedoms my ancestors never had. As a result I do not need to or choose to live in Israel. I had a choice. I was damn lucky I had a choice, and my choice means I am loyal to the country that gives me such rights. Does Canada have problems. You bet. Is it exterminating blacks...put your racist rhetoric to bed. As is the case of every minority of every skin shade we have had our confrontations with bigotry . Most of us do not choose to withdraw and create our own worlds. We know that won't solve the problem just avoid dealing with it. I speak for me no one else. I take the free choices and rights I have in Canada and embracedthem and fight back to achieve my equality if I have to. Its something that comes from working hard and not expecting or feeling entitled to automatic rights. Don't you even attempt to suggest there's a holocaust going on in Canada to justify your racist beliefs. There is not. You want to engage in racist ideology don't equate it to Zionism or others who have liberated ourselves from oppression. Zionism has never defined Jews as a race or Arabs as a race or inferior to us. The Laws of Israel are not that different from Canada's except they tend to allow Muslims to opt put of state laws a lot more than we do in Canada. You stated: "Look, there are some jews who are self hating, but it is no surprise, jews were told they were scum for years so some believe it. What else is a person going to think when they are told they are scum daily." Its the only thing in your clumsy away I appreciate. Yes there are some Jews no different than with other minorities such as gays, blacks, whites, women etc., who self-hate. They take on extreme ideology designed to make them invisible to the people they think hate them. They in fact engage in a psychological exercise of pre-empting the bigot's concept of them by accepting it thinking then that bigot will no longer hate them. Go on, provide to me the leftist trendy Jews in France who claimed its only Zionist Jews that are hated when there were Muslim extremist attacks on innocent Jewish civilians in France. You think he terrorists asked those Jews if they were Zionists? Read back how you label people as white or stereotype Israeli Jews, Israeli Arabs. You are a bigot, pure and simple and your words are just preconceived biases based on ignorance. Get it clear. I am not white. I am a Jew with greenish-grey-pink skin. When I say I am a Jew it does not mean a race, and it sure as hell does not mean I am not Canadian or that I hate Muslims, blacks or anyone else. My concept of Judaism is not different than Martin Luther King's concept of Christianity. His being black or Christian made no difference. He practiced the exact same moral beliefs as I did. He came to my synagogue and spoke. He was that day he came a Jew not just a Christian. He transcended what you call skin colour. He embraced our souls and spoke to our souls. In fact I am going to go so far as to say years later believe it or not so did Pierre Trudeau. . For that matter neither did Stephen Harper-he never minced his words about terrorism being wrong whoever did it. I heard his speech. He clearly stated the same rights for Israelis and Palestinians, no double talk. He never minced words about China. This current PM to me is a reverse bigot. He spews bigotry in the name of specific groups over others. I don't like it. I don't like how he plays minorities off against one another any more than I like when you do it or the people use such incidents that started this thread to do it. Rich coming from you. The guy who wants forced integration so that he can play them off each other to make money. On 3/27/2017 at 2:23 PM, Rue said: The person who engaged in this act was wrong. They were caught. Period. If they are genuinely mentally ill and defective due to a tumour so be it. If they had full competence at the time of their actions, that makes them a hateful, dangerous, moron and border-line terrorist. Thank God no one died as a result of this idiot's calls. How many copy cats he will inspire I do not know. I also stated Muslims spoke out when these threats were happening defending Jewish people just as Jews have done in reverse. Thank God. It could have easily as inspired some nut case. I state it again. The majority of us who you do not speak for of any minority group do not hate each other. We do not agree with violence expressed by anyone. o one should use any religion to justify terrorism nor should people use such incidents to try incite Muslims against Jews, or anyone against anyone else. Israel is an apartheid state. 2 Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 30, 2017 Report Posted March 30, 2017 12 minutes ago, hernanday said: ....So why didn't the jews all just move to Canada, since it never had discrimination, why steal land from palestinian arabs? Canada never had discrimination ? Are you serious ? Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
H10 Posted March 30, 2017 Report Posted March 30, 2017 13 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Canada never had discrimination ? Are you serious ? According to him it didn't. 1 Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 30, 2017 Report Posted March 30, 2017 2 minutes ago, hernanday said: According to him it didn't. OK...my bad. Carry on.... Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
taxme Posted March 30, 2017 Report Posted March 30, 2017 On 3/23/2017 at 4:00 PM, Hudson Jones said: It turns out that it was an Israeli-American teenager, living in Israel who had sent at least 100 bomb threats to Jewish Centres around the world. His lawyer says it's because of a tumor. Link The gentiles made me do it. 1 Quote
Rue Posted March 31, 2017 Report Posted March 31, 2017 On 2017-03-29 at 3:31 AM, marcus said: It must be difficult for you, when there is research like this, from an Israeli-American geneticist and bioinformatician with a doctorate in molecular evolution, showing how Ashkenazi Jews are descendants of Khazars. I guess he's another self-hating Jew who isn't trying to justify the Zionist narrative. If anyone is interested in learning more about the research, see the above link and see this article: The new research suggests that most of the Jewish population of northern and eastern Europe – normally known as Ashkenazic Jews – are the descendants of Greeks, Iranians and others who colonized what is now northern Turkey more than 2000 years ago and were then converted to Judaism, probably in the first few centuries AD by Jews from Persia. At that stage, the Persian Empire was home to the world’s largest Jewish communities. Its not difficult for me or anyone to go on the internet and realize that the Jews are Khazars myth is just that and has been repeated by individuals such as yourself who have an anti-Semitic agenda on web sites to attack Jews as not being a distinct people. Its not difficult at all to deal with people with such agendas. Its also not difficult to point out the very scientist Hernanday quoted to suggest Jews are a race the way he uses the term is false, but that this scientist has shown that Jews do have a distinctive gene and other genetic links that can be traced to their origins in the Middle East and he did so precisely to prove the Jews are Kahzars allegation is a myth-a lie. You can go and provide me or anyone with all the sites you want that deny Jews are Jews, claim there was no holocaust, etc., lol it snot difficult tp repudiate them. Its been done on this board over and over. Its not that hard. Now let's recap. Jews have along with Palestinians a common genetic link that shows there are Jews, Muslims and Christians in religion, who can be t raced back to people of the Middle East in the area today called Israel, Jordan, the West Bank and Southern Lebanon and Syria. These shared genetic characteristics explain a pattern of diseases such as Tay-Sachs a blood disease. We know for example people Hernanday calls Africans and many call blacks have common genetic traits such as a propensity for diabetes, hypertension and sickle cell anemia. We know for example in Scandinavia, with pale, blue eyed girls, there appears to be a higher rate of a certain kind of juvenile arthritis. These genetic similarities help us identify and understand certain patterns of diseases. They suggest certain genes carry inheritable medical conditions. It doesn't make people members of the so called "negroid", "Caucasian" or "oriental" or "mongol" races. Those terms which people use today to describe, blacks, people of China-Japan-Korea, of who Hernanday calls "white) are subjective. They are subjective constructs use to define people by skin pigment tone, hair texture and nose shape. They mean nothing. In science such traits are secondary. You can have a so called white person and coal black person with more in common genetically than two coal black men or two white men. Its got nothing to do with such characteristics. In fact white people who are not what Hernanday calls African or some would call black can have sickle cell anemia or other diseases because of their genetic traits picke dup from African ancestry. Their skin colour is not what causes them to have such illnesses, their genetic profile does. When a scientist talks of genetic profiles to classify people as fitting in a genetic category of same genetic characteristics, they might call that race, but certainly not in the context Hernanday uses it or Nazis used it or anti semites like you use it. Englightened people have moved on from defining people by the structure of their nose or skin colour although I appreciate with you the need to perpetuate a Jewish-Arab conflict and a need to deny Jewish people exist as part of your agenda to suggest they have no right to be in the Middle East. You have made that clear in many prior hateful responses. The fact is Hernanday's comments were ridiculous. Palestinians and Jews are not a different race. They are the same people. At least those with the same genetic links. There are Palestinians who are not descended from Palistinians at all-they could be Turks, Mongols, Greeks,etc. Next, no Jew as Hernanday stated and this is why he can not produce one, no Jew whether a Zionist or non Zionist calls ourselves a race. The Nazis did. Anti-semites did, certainly not us. We have and have always called ourselves a collective identity. Our identity consists of many components including religion, culture, ethnicity, language, genetic links, nationality, shared sense of political oppression, art, literature. In fact people today who call themselves Arabs use the same kind of collective identity. True Arabs if they exist would probably only exist now with the Beduins who would MIGHT be descended from them. The fact though is the term Arab changed from referringt o the eoples of the Arabian peninsula who were the ancestors of Jews, Christians and then Muslims to a political national identity reinvented by Gamel Nasser and absolutely no different than how Jews reinvented the term Jew NOT just to mean following the Jewish religion but many other things. Nowhere in the Old Testament (Torah), Talmud or Kabalah or any Rabbinical commentaries do any Jewish scholars let alone we ordinary people, refer to Jews as a race. It would be absurd to. As I have stated over and over, and is common sense, there are using Hernanday's terminology, African Jews. They can be coal black and look like stereotype racist blacks bigots think of, to the Felashies who most of you would all Ethiopian looking because that is where they are from. There are Tsfardic-Mitzrahi Jews or Arab Jews who speak Arabic as their first language (the majority of Israelis) and have the same physical characteristics of any Muslim or Christian Arab-they are mixed-they could go from coal black traditional "negroid" to pale white "Caucasian" and everything in between. They could be no different in physical characteristic than Indians in India, where they live in Mumbai. They could be Chinese, i.e., what Hernanday would call yellow people with narrow eyes. To call us a race is absurd. We are like Arabs completely mixed. People like Hernanday define the world in skin colours. Only enlightened blacks like enlightened whites do not. We know better. Just because one is black does not mean Hernanday can lump them all into one category called African. What nonsense. There are Africans that come from Indian, Chinese, Jewish, Arab ancestry or are white.Even if we said BLACK, the variation in black in Africa ranges from purple skin tone to extreme pale white or yellow with every eye shape, hair texture, nose shape. Hernanday chooses to see black and white the way white neo Nazis do. Its that simple. He defines people by secondary physical characteristics. amaicans, Haitiens, people from Grenada, Cuba, Barbados, St. Lucia, Martiniques, certainly can trace themselves back to African slaves it doesn't make them African and give him the right to lump them in this one narrow rigid definition.I have been at the schools when an angry Jamaican parent says stop calling me African fool, I am Jamaican by culture not African and I am a Canadian not an African. Hernanday is part of a world that wants what he thinks is best only for him and plays a victim card. Israel did not create its country based on running from racism and calling Jews victims, it comes from standing up in the face of a holocaust and countries refusing to take Jews back and taking an existential stand and say, no we will not remain victims and stateless. Zionism was an act of political sufferage. It had nothing to do with religion and everything to do with redefining Jews as a persecuted nationality that said NEVER AGAIN. Jews created Israel no different than the former slaves did in Haiti. Now there are blacks, Jews, Christians, Muslims who want to segregate into private religious schools. Its their right in a democracy to do that and this is why they do it in Canada and Israel but not in Muslim Sharia law nations because Sharia law nations demand all non Muslims be segregated into their own schools-there's no concept of public schooling where all peoples are welcome. In Canada's public Catholic school board they can NOT turn away non Catholics. A private Catholic school could. What Hernanday did is to equate school issues with political sufferage and nationhood and define them as the same. They are not. The issue is, in Canada all peoples have the same rights now. To suggest as Hernanday does that they are being exterminated so need a school was gibberish. If it fact they were being exterminated and created their own black Canadian nation based on saying no to extermination, it might have an anology at that level with what Israel did. Let me know when Hernanday urges a separate black nation in Canada. Can't wait. I can only imagine where he will set it up and what title he gives himself.The fact is blacks are not being exterminated based on any state policy although I am sure in Hernanday's mind, when a young black man is murdered by a police officer Trudeau ordered it as part of state policy. Multi-culturalism flourishes in Canada to the point its probably gone too far and undermines an ability to create a common Canadian unity by focusing too much on what we WERE and not enough on what we ARE. I stated and I still argue segregation based on skin culture is racist. I state it again, how can anyone of any common sense and intelligence expect others to be tolerant of them when they pull out of the same environment and refuse to be part of it? That just creates barriers. Temporary learning aids or special classes to keep kids with high drop out rates in school or to help them learn is one thing-removing them completely and permanently is another. Its a complex subject. I personally believe mainstreaming certain kids with special disabilities is unfair to them, their parents, the school system and sets up unrealistic accommodation expectations. That does not mean I am pro segregation. I am not making a general rule. I get why for example we take kids in wheelchairs and put them in mainstream schools. That's real society. So is working with kids of all kinds of physical disability but if it impairs them to the extent that they can't learn its unfair to force them into an environment that expects them to. Its complex. I am not here to say certain gay children who were being beaten up or ridiculed did not do better when placed in the gay public school. It seems to have helped aboriginal children as well. However such programs were not meant to be misappropriated by bigots to argue racial segregation. Next, I will say it again-it is absurd that Muslims now are demanding they be given prayer rooms in public schools, segregated washrooms so they can wash 5 times a day as part of their prayers, pray 5 times a day, etc. No. No Muslim, no Jew, no Christian, no Wiccan, no Bahaii, no one should expect a public school to do such things during public school hours. If you can't do your prayers before you go to school or after you leave school then too bad, if you are that unwilling to assimilate in the public system pay to go to a private school. Do not demand the public schools begin to incorporate specific religions desires because then every damn child and his parent's of every damn religion, culture, perceived race, perceived ethnicity, sexual desire, will want accommodation. We are a nation too full of self indulgent spoiled children and parents who think democracy is unlimited and must accommodate what ever anyone demands. No. It does not. It's not how democracy works. Democracy is not a system where minorities get to rule and bully others and turn the system of tolerance into one of intolerance where people play the minority card to compete with one another for who gets more special treatment. Look at where we are headed. There was this idiot who called herself a black woman for years and headed a black rights organization. She was outed as a white woman although she lied and told everyone she was black African. Now two years after her being exposed as a fraud she writes a book calling herself transracial and stating ever since she was a young girl she felt she was black and drew herself in pictures as black and so should be called black since she feels black. How far we going to go indulging people? The topic went of tangent because that is what it was supposed to trigger-anti Jew comments and it did. There's only one story regarding this thread-thperson whoc alled in the death threats is either a terrorist idiot, or a mentally ill individual. Whether his Jewish religion inspired him to do this does not appear to be the case On 2017-03-30 at 4:10 AM, hernanday said: According to him it didn't. Hernanday provide the words from me where I said there was no discrimination against Jews or anyone else in Canada. You have fabricated again. I never said there's never been discrimination in Canada or anywhere else. What I did say is that Canada has offered Jews and for that matter all kinds of minorities freedom. Doesn't mean there wasn't and still aren't problems or discrimination. You appear unable to differentiate between actions of individuals and official state policies. Quote
Rue Posted March 31, 2017 Report Posted March 31, 2017 20 hours ago, taxme said: The gentiles made me do it. Oh look a giggle boy comment. Hee hee. Quote
Rue Posted March 31, 2017 Report Posted March 31, 2017 On 2017-03-30 at 4:13 AM, bush_cheney2004 said: OK...my bad. Carry on.... I have never stated there's been no discrimination in Canada or anywhere else in the world. Hernanday infers such things . He does not appear to be able to deal with more than two polarized opposite values at any given time when communicating. Even then he gets confused at what he states is in conflict. I enjoy Jew threads. I get to giggle along with Taxme about how the Tm Horton;s Roll Up The Rim Contest is only for gentiles. 1 Quote
DogOnPorch Posted March 31, 2017 Report Posted March 31, 2017 5 minutes ago, Rue said: Oh look a giggle boy comment. Hee hee. It's a cold world, Rue. But allies come in the strangest forms. But, oh yes, by golly! Enemies all around! ---------- Danny Dravot: Billy Fish, do they always use such a big ball? Billy Fish: Depend on size of man's head. Big head, big ball, small head, small ball. That's your Bashki man. Oh, big damn head! Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
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