betsy Posted February 14, 2017 Report Share Posted February 14, 2017 (edited) The Canadian media marvelled - a few almost giddy - at how Trudeau was able to get a slight dig at Trump, regarding our open borders. Trudeau had stated, “The last thing Canadians expect is for me to come down and lecture another country on how they choose to govern themselves. My role, my responsibility is to continue to govern in such a way that reflects Canadians’ approach and be a positive example in the world.” That last part - that was the dig towards Trump. The media dwelt on the "tweaking' of NAFTA, and cooperation between the two countries. However, they didn't catch on the fact that Trudeau had mentioned improvement of our immigration system.....and I strongly believe that border security was high on the agenda (and improvement of our immigration system must've been a concession). The media ignored the long statement of Trump - in which he'd also dug at Trudeau by highlighting his long meeting with Japan's Shinzo Abe (and their weekend together), and it's like rubbing it in Trudeau's face....... .............and Trump also gave a veiled warning about border security. How could've the media missed that loaded statement? Check it out! Refer to timer 18:30 We cannot let the wrong people in. And I will not allow that to happen during this administration. And people want that. That's their attitude too. And we're getting praises for our stance....and it's the common sense stance. Etc.... It was a long speech about border security, and yet our media didn't cover that! You bet, Trump fired some salvo towards Trudeau in that long statement. Our media ignored it. That same tone and message would've been delivered to Trudeau in their private meeting too - how can it not? Trudeau must've given some assurances regarding border security which had appeased Trump.............for now. This thread will be about that, and also on border security. Edited February 14, 2017 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 14, 2017 Report Share Posted February 14, 2017 Canada has little leverage with the United States when it comes to border security. Either play ball with the U.S. or suffer severe economic and mobility impact. Canadians also cross the U.S. border electronically every day, knowing full well that traffic and transactions are collected and scrutinized. "Enhanced" border security requirements pre-date President Trump by many years. Trudeau needs Trump far more than Trump needs Trudeau. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted February 14, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2017 (edited) "We wont' stand for it. We won't put up with it. We won't let it happen." Canada, take serious note. Edited February 14, 2017 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted February 14, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2017 (edited) 21 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: "Enhanced" border security requirements pre-date President Trump by many years. But, it wasn't good enough for Trump. Whatever they have that predates him, isn't enough. He pointed at the San Bernardino housewife numerous time - how could she have entered the USA despite all the red flags? If I'm not mistaken, they plan to put an effective extreme screening and vetting in place. That was a promise. Edited February 14, 2017 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kactus Posted February 14, 2017 Report Share Posted February 14, 2017 I read about this. Here's another analysis from BBC on this meeting.. Quote Justin Trudeau had a fine line to walk on Monday and came through with his best diplomatic balancing act. The prime minister can travel back to Ottawa with Mr Trump on the record as having called the trade relationship between the two nations "outstanding" and only in need of a "tweaking". What those tweaks might entail is still to be revealed, but you could almost hear anxious Canadian business people breathing a sigh of relief. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38959441 My personal opinion is that Mr Trudeau showed an exemplary leadership skills in this meerting... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted February 14, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2017 (edited) 7 minutes ago, kactus said: I read about this. Here's another analysis from BBC on this meeting.. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38959441 My personal opinion is that Mr Trudeau showed an exemplary leadership skills in this meerting... I'm not saying the meeting about trade didn't go well. But, having an open border - with ease of travel back and forth between borders - is paramount to our trade. Trudeau mentioned improvement of immigration (which means there is a need for improvement). That concern must have been expressed by Trump, since Trudeau's stance on open borders has been well-publicized (especially that last tweet he made). If ever there is a threat coming from Canada, you bet those borders will shut down. That's what I read from Trump's veiled warnings. The onus is now on Canada to ensure no undesirables ever manage to cross those borders to the USA. Edited February 14, 2017 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 14, 2017 Report Share Posted February 14, 2017 5 minutes ago, betsy said: But, it wasn't good enough for Trump. Whatever they have that predates him, isn't enough. True, but whatever Trump wants will be layered on top of what was already negotiated by previous Canadian and U.S. administrations. Canada can/will cause acute screenings and border crossing refusals based on domestic travel, refugee, and immigration policies. Canadians/Americans can be denied entry into a sovereign country for any reason or no reason at all, and I expect Trump to ratchet up the number of rejections at the U.S. border at a much lower risk threshold. Just enforcing existing U.S. entry and immigration laws would result in millions of lawful deportations, before Trump ever became president. Trump's challenge is to define the new normal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted February 14, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2017 (edited) 18 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: True, but whatever Trump wants will be layered on top of what was already negotiated by previous Canadian and U.S. administrations. Canada can/will cause acute screenings and border crossing refusals based on domestic travel, refugee, and immigration policies. Canadians/Americans can be denied entry into a sovereign country for any reason or no reason at all, and I expect Trump to ratchet up the number of rejections at the U.S. border at a much lower risk threshold. Just enforcing existing U.S. entry and immigration laws would result in millions of lawful deportations, before Trump ever became president. Trump's challenge is to define the new normal. Yes, it will be layered on top of what's already in place (or maybe they would be doing some tweakings). We don't know. The planning would involve where weaknesses lie in the current system. To know where the problem is, is part of knowing how they can improve it. Edited February 14, 2017 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted February 14, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2017 (edited) 9 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Canada can/will cause acute screenings and border crossing refusals based on domestic travel, refugee, and immigration policies. That is very good for Canada! For our own security as well. Our immigration system is pathetic. I really like the fact that Canada is now pressured to comply, and improve our immigration system. Edited February 14, 2017 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 14, 2017 Report Share Posted February 14, 2017 1 minute ago, betsy said: Yes, it will be layered on top of what's already in place (or maybe they would be doing some tweakings). We don't know. Tthe planning would involve where weaknesses lie in the current system. To know where the problem is, is part of knowing how they can improve it. At the basic level, I expect that Canadians will be subject to more and more intrusive pre-screenings and card registrations if they want to avoid the long lines and higher risk of being denied entry. There is already a huge U.S. database and agency sharing on many Canadians and their travel habits....and I can tell you that countries like SYRIA are a hot button. Recently some Canadian media firm was denied a PayPal transaction because the word "SYRIA" was associated with the payment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted February 14, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2017 1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said: At the basic level, I expect that Canadians will be subject to more and more intrusive pre-screenings and card registrations if they want to avoid the long lines and higher risk of being denied entry. There is already a huge U.S. database and agency sharing on many Canadians and their travel habits....and I can tell you that countries like SYRIA are a hot button. Recently some Canadian media firm was denied a PayPal transaction because the word "SYRIA" was associated with the payment. Muslim-Canadians are having, and will be having a hard-time getting in the USA due to the lapses in our immigration policy. We can't blame the USA for not wanting to take any chances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topaz Posted February 14, 2017 Report Share Posted February 14, 2017 43 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Canada has little leverage with the United States when it comes to border security. Either play ball with the U.S. or suffer severe economic and mobility impact. Canadians also cross the U.S. border electronically every day, knowing full well that traffic and transactions are collected and scrutinized. "Enhanced" border security requirements pre-date President Trump by many years. Trudeau needs Trump far more than Trump needs Trudeau. That may be true BUT Trump wants the OIL badly and that's why he's playing nice to Canada and he's told that to Trudeau and the PM said its not up to him its up to the oil company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topaz Posted February 14, 2017 Report Share Posted February 14, 2017 BTW, I did hear about this on the news, not sure if its was Canadian or American. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BubberMiley Posted February 14, 2017 Report Share Posted February 14, 2017 That meeting didn't go very well if you were hoping against hope that it would go bad for Canada. It was pretty obvious though that all Justin would have to do is feed the ego and it would all go fine. Giving Trump a picture of himself sealed the deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 14, 2017 Report Share Posted February 14, 2017 3 minutes ago, Topaz said: That may be true BUT Trump wants the OIL badly and that's why he's playing nice to Canada and he's told that to Trudeau and the PM said its not up to him its up to the oil company. Maybe, but 70% of Canada's oil/bitumen production is foreign owned....Canada still needs American and other foreign capital to keep it going. Plus Canada/Trudeau need a pipeline to refineries in the USA, because it costs more and is seemingly impossible to get Canadians to agree on east-west pipeline or refinery construction. U.S. administrations face pressure from several groups to treat the Canadian border just as it treats the Mexican border, lest it be accused of bias and racism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted February 14, 2017 Report Share Posted February 14, 2017 13 minutes ago, betsy said: Muslim-Canadians are having, and will be having a hard-time getting in the USA due to the lapses in our immigration policy. We can't blame the USA for not wanting to take any chances. The US is friends with a certain Muslim nation that is the M.E's largest exporter of terrorism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted February 14, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2017 3 minutes ago, GostHacked said: The US is friends with a certain Muslim nation that is the M.E's largest exporter of terrorism. This thread is not about that. This is between the US-Canada borders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 14, 2017 Report Share Posted February 14, 2017 2 minutes ago, betsy said: This thread is not about that. This is between the US-Canada borders. The outflow of refused refugees and illegal immigrants from the U.S. to Canada is just a symptom of very different policies from respective governments. President Obama deported over 2,000,000 illegals, but now President Trump is the bad guy. Anybody seeking entry at an international border should at least be prepared for the possibility of being turned away. Entry is by permission...not "human right". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kactus Posted February 14, 2017 Report Share Posted February 14, 2017 (edited) 15 minutes ago, betsy said: This thread is not about that. This is between the US-Canada borders. A good part of this conversation has been about ring fencing immigration policy between US/Canada and Muslim ban. Why do you think GH's post is not relevant? Edited February 14, 2017 by kactus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 14, 2017 Report Share Posted February 14, 2017 Regardless of other international travelers to Canada or the USA, open access to the U.S. border seems to be a much higher priority for Canadians than Americans going north. It has been estimated that Canadians cross the U.S. border at a ratio of 3:1 or 4:1 compared to Americans crossing into Canada, and the U.S. has ten times the population. Snowbirds...sure...but other things are at play. The U.S. border is a real and psychological barrier to Canadian entry for a host of travel objectives. Canadians seem to confront it far more than Americans. Being turned away at the border must be very "inconvenient". Enhanced border security is not going away anytime soon. Reminds me of the border thread from 2014: http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums/topic/23375-the-border/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted February 14, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2017 (edited) 53 minutes ago, kactus said: A good part of this conversation has been about ring fencing immigration policy between US/Canada and Muslim ban. Why do you think GH's post is not relevant? Don't derail my thread. If you want to talk about that, create your own. Edited February 14, 2017 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted February 14, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2017 (edited) 23 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Regardless of other international travelers to Canada or the USA, open access to the U.S. border seems to be a much higher priority for Canadians than Americans going north. It has been estimated that Canadians cross the U.S. border at a ratio of 3:1 or 4:1 compared to Americans crossing into Canada, and the U.S. has ten times the population. Snowbirds...sure...but other things are at play. The U.S. border is a real and psychological barrier to Canadian entry for a host of travel objectives. Canadians seem to confront it far more than Americans. Being turned away at the border must be very "inconvenient". Enhanced border security is not going away anytime soon. Reminds me of the border thread from 2014: http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums/topic/23375-the-border/ No, it won't be going away. What we see happening in Europe only serves as a cold reminder that it's here to stay. Once they're in, it's hard to get them out. Merkel offers cash to get them to leave. We don't know how many "sleepers" we've let in to Canada. Edited February 14, 2017 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kactus Posted February 14, 2017 Report Share Posted February 14, 2017 1 hour ago, betsy said: Muslim-Canadians are having, and will be having a hard-time getting in the USA due to the lapses in our immigration policy. We can't blame the USA for not wanting to take any chances. This is what you said... Just now, betsy said: Don't derail my thread. If you want to talk about that, create your own. It is is very relevant to the topic. If you cannot answer the question asked by Gosthacked and me that's fine... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted February 14, 2017 Report Share Posted February 14, 2017 (edited) 5 minutes ago, betsy said: No, it won't be going away. What we see happening in Europe only serves as a cold reminder that it's here to stay. Once they're in, it's hard to get them out. Merkel offers cash to get them to leave. Agreed...PM Merkel will pay a high political price for her immigration policies. It is telling that Joe Biden asked Justin Trudeau to be the surviving champion for open borders and very liberal immigration policies. Edited February 14, 2017 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted February 14, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2017 (edited) 9 minutes ago, kactus said: This is what you said... Quote 1 hour ago, betsy said: Muslim-Canadians are having, and will be having a hard-time getting in the USA due to the lapses in our immigration policy. We can't blame the USA for not wanting to take any chances. And? Obviously, we're discussing US-Canada borders! Edited February 14, 2017 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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