Trump Derangement Syndrome

[bush_cheney2004]

Just now, Michael Hardner said:

Well, you seem to think so.  As I said, our conversation will get special when things start to change and your tone changes.  If we both live four years I'm sure I will see it come to pass.

 

I've already lived through many U.S. presidential election cycles and terms....didn't experience them in a foreign country or by television proxy.

President Trump is just another in the long line of White House occupiers.    He hasn't even come close to what FDR or Lincoln did to "protect borders".

[Rue]

In fact add Woodrow Wilson to that list. Limiting visas from specific countries has gone on in Canada and the US and every other Western nation since all our nations started.

Its just Trump is a poor communicator and turned the above exercise into what he calls as a "Muslim' ban which suggests all Muslims are automatically disqualified from entry.

Of course Muslims and everyone else should be screened. Of course being a Muslim young male travelling is a red flag. Its the reality of today. But to say ALL Muslims are being banned which is what he said was irresponsible.

It created chaos for the people on the front lines enforcing the laws. It creates panic, dissension and hateful displays. Its irresponsible to speak with the power of PTUS vehind you and not take the time to carefully consider the impact of your words.

He has made the job of security screeners far harder today than ever. He's given ample opportunity for chaos to cover entry in of terrorists because of his irresponsible need to pander to his voters.

That said of course you are right. The problem is people in panic don't stop to find out the facts and it demeans all people in the government as being unfair at the borders now.

They did not need his announcement. He could have done what he did simply stating new screening criteria were being implemented and leave it at that. he had to go the next step and make deliberately provocative comments.

I don't like bullies.

Ironically probably Obama's immigration screening security was far stricter than Reagan's or Bush's given the evolution of world terrorism.

As the world becomes more unstable so do screening criteria need to be adjusted.

You know that I know that, can you tell Trump then to shut up and let his government do their job.

I for one am sick of the US being lump sum negatively stereotyped because off Trump.

I support the right of the US to protect its borders. I know how its laws work. It has entrenched checks and balances that oprevent criteria based solely on religion in spite of what Trump would have his supporters believe.

Shit man, look at Britain, Israel, they have dealt with terrorism head on. They didn't have their leaders broadcast what they were doing.

He needs to shut up about certain issues.

For a guy who criticized Obama for telecasting his moves in Iraq to aid ISIL what the hell does he think his Muslim ban did.

Its set him up as a scapegoat to blame for terrorist attacks now. Its given terrorists a Golden Calf to manipulate the knee jerkers upset by what he's done.

Nuff said. Shut him up.

Edited February 2, 2017 by Rue

[blueblood]

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

It's not 'ordinary'.  He was a New York blueblood with a silver spoon in his brain.  180 of Obama would make sense if he WANTED to sound like a terrible speaker.

Point #2, I'm actually glad people are laughing at liberals.  They need some relief after 8 years.  But it's a pretty big risk to put a clown in office just to laugh at your fellow countrymen.

A clown he may be, but he's a clown who is taking care of business agree with him or not 

[Michael Hardner]

10 minutes ago, blueblood said:

A clown he may be, but he's a clown who is taking care of business agree with him or not 

This thread is about irrational reactions to Trump.  

Also, I don't know what 'Taking Care of Business Means' in this context.  I'm not saying he won't be successful, even if I doubt he will be.  But real success will take awhile in any case.

[blueblood]

13 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

This thread is about irrational reactions to Trump.  

Also, I don't know what 'Taking Care of Business Means' in this context.  I'm not saying he won't be successful, even if I doubt he will be.  But real success will take awhile in any case.

 I don't know if there are any campaign promises he hasn't checked off in an executive order, so things are going good and as a result many leftists are flailing in self pity and trump is drinking their tears

[eyeball]

3 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

You can't fully understand the United States by watching so much American television.

That's why we keep you around.

[H10]

Obama won two landslide elections back to back running as a progressive liberal from the south side of chicago in a nation that is generally regarded as right of center.  Bill Clinton was never able to bring in a wave of democrats into the house and senate like Obama was.  Bill Clinton ran as a southern conservative democrat.  Say what you want about Obama, but he is insanely popular as far as US president's go.  There have only been two democrats elected back to back since WW2 and only one of them managed to bring in a house majority and senate majority with them, Obama.  Obama beat Bill and Hilary Clinton. 

Frankly, Trump should have been an easy candidate to beat, there is no "magic" about Trump.  He doesn't understand something we all don't.  Unfortunately, Hilary Clinton, a grossly unpopular washington elitist in a year where people are sick of her kind, rigged the DNC election with 8 senior dnc officials starting in 2014 to prevent another incumbent (like Obama) from winning in the primaries.  Even the media was in on the fix because Sanders had crowds of 20-30,000 people and the media was ignoring it to give preference to Clinton.  Clinton was unpopular, alienated democratic core base (white working class men and women, progressives and african americans) and instead chased the moderate republican vote and latino vote.  Unfortunately that was not enough.  Clinton's was down by literally hundreds of thousands of votes in cities like detroit which should have been easy for her to win.  She was so far down in the rural areas too that it made it hard for her to even win states likes pennsylvania and wisconsin because she couldn't even turn out those 1 in 5 or 1 in 3 democrats in those rural counties.

Trump had lower numbers than John Kerry, he would have lost to almost any other democratic nominee except Clinton.  Even O malley or webb would have a better shot of beating Trump and Sanders would have crushed Trump.  Clinton is literally the worst candidate without a criminal conviction you could run, even rod blagovich would have been better because at least he'd be smart enough to not tell voters in coal country ohio and pennsylvania I'm going to put you out of a job.

[bush_cheney2004]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

This thread is about irrational reactions to Trump.  

Also, I don't know what 'Taking Care of Business Means' in this context.  I'm not saying he won't be successful, even if I doubt he will be.  But real success will take awhile in any case.

 

President Trump has already been immensely successful even if he doesn't accomplish another single thing in U.S. politics.  The irrational reactions to Trump's candidacy and subsequent inauguration leaves his critics with only desperate hope that he will fail miserably and meet their darkest expectations.  These are the only scraps that Trump haters can hope for, because Donald Trump has already won "bigly", destroying the status quo in American politics.  Their desires for a President Trump failure live on in their own derangement.

[eyeball]

Then there are those who see Trump's success as a means to a different end, America's, at least to the extent it's knocked firmly back on its ass,

Go Trump go.

[OftenWrong]

14 hours ago, BubberMiley said:

At the risk of being off-topic (because I'm not sure a topic was established), I don't think Trump is particularly good at identifying with average "folks." He already has a disapproval rating of 57%. That doesn't sound very relatable. He's just very good at manipulating gullible people and stirring them up. But that's even starting to fall apart and will accelerate once prescription drug prices go even higher and people lose their health care.

It's already been shown that the polls are biased. Right wingers who are happy with the way things are going do not answer polls. Left wingers who are upset with the universe sign up to complain en masse. Hence "Disapproval".

[bush_cheney2004]

1 minute ago, eyeball said:

Then there are those who see Trump's success as a means to a different end, America's, at least to the extent it's knocked firmly back on its ass,

Go Trump go.

 

Not different at all....President is America...good and bad.   The world keeps betting on America...much more than Canada.

[eyeball]

17 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

...President is America...

Sounds like that old "Jeezus is Lord" bumper sticker.

 

[bush_cheney2004]

2 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Sounds like that old "Jeezus is Lord" bumper sticker.

 

 

Last time I checked, Jesus was still very popular too.

[eyeball]

And almost as Exceptional.

[Michael Hardner]

7 hours ago, blueblood said:

 I don't know if there are any campaign promises he hasn't checked off in an executive order, so things are going good and as a result many leftists are flailing in self pity and trump is drinking their tears

How about adding the border tax for China and Mexico ?  How about having Mexico pay for the wall.  Of course, true believers will never be swayed.

[Michael Hardner]

6 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

1) President Trump has already been immensely successful even if he doesn't accomplish another single thing in U.S. politics.  2) Their desires for a President Trump failure live on in their own derangement.

1) But ultimate success means delivering on promises and making things better.  

2) Agreed.  Certainly if the measure of success is irritating people like me, he's a big success.  But that's a sad comment if there ever was one.  "I would vote for a monkey if it made liberals made."

[Michael Hardner]

5 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

Left wingers who are upset with the universe sign up to complain en masse. Hence "Disapproval".

So the US is mostly left-wing then.

[bush_cheney2004]

20 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1) But ultimate success means delivering on promises and making things better.  

2) Agreed.  Certainly if the measure of success is irritating people like me, he's a big success.  But that's a sad comment if there ever was one.  "I would vote for a monkey if it made liberals made."

 

There is no ultimate success, and certainly President Obama wasn't held to such a standard.   Obama was awarded a Nobel Prize...and then promptly started bombing people....making things better !

People who hate Trump will always hate Trump no matter what he does...so screw them. 

Edited February 2, 2017 by bush_cheney2004

[Michael Hardner]

13 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

1) There is no ultimate success, and certainly President Obama wasn't held to such a standard.    

2) People who hate Trump will always hate Trump no matter he does...so screw them. 

1) I am more optimistic.  Success is measured in better lives for the American people.  That's not amoral, that's patriotic.

2) Nonsense.  Trump's abduction of populist leftist policies means that there is a kernel of hope that he can win the people back.  Knocking down "conventional wisdom" as he has done is progress.  Now, if it turns out that the orthodoxy of economic trade theory is another domino that Trump knocks down we will all owe him.

[bush_cheney2004]

By definition, Trump haters are not really concerned about the American people.

And no, I don't care what you think about my country or its new president, so please stop trolling my message in-box.

 

[Michael Hardner]

Just now, bush_cheney2004 said:

By definition, Trump haters are not really concerned about the American people.

And no, I don't care what you think about my country or its new president, so please stop trolling my message in-box.

 

What a horrible indictment of your fellow Americans.  Certainly not a patriotic stance to say Americans who hate Trump are irredeemable.   I believe Americans have their own best interests at heart and are open-minded which is apparently not your take on this.  I care about America more than you do, I think.

Unfortunately, I am still a moderator here so I am obliged to PM you when I hide your troll posts.  This is a courtesy that I do you for you free.

And again... if you "don't care" then simply don't respond to my very valid points about your conflicting principles.  You claim to post from a position of American patriotism and somehow amorality which is just not tenable.  Simply pick a position and stick to it.

You can't be a patriot and simultaneously deride your own country's capacity for Democracy.  

[bush_cheney2004]

15 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

What a horrible indictment of your fellow Americans.  Certainly not a patriotic stance to say Americans who hate Trump are irredeemable.   I believe Americans have their own best interests at heart and are open-minded which is apparently not your take on this.  I care about America more than you do, I think.

Unfortunately, I am still a moderator here so I am obliged to PM you when I hide your troll posts.  This is a courtesy that I do you for you free.

And again... if you "don't care" then simply don't respond to my very valid points about your conflicting principles.  You claim to post from a position of American patriotism and somehow amorality which is just not tenable.  Simply pick a position and stick to it.

You can't be a patriot and simultaneously deride your own country's capacity for Democracy.  

 

No...you have repeatedly tried to troll me with cute references to 'morality' and 'patriotism'...directed at me personally.   So please start hiding your own "troll posts".

Your PMs constitute harassment on this topic and several others.   Hiding behind the moderator function to harass me is not acceptable.

The American people have chosen a president, and he is the president for all Americans and legal residents, not foreign nationals.

 

Edited February 2, 2017 by bush_cheney2004

[Michael Hardner]

7 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

1) No...you have repeatedly tried to troll me with cute references to 'morality' and 'patriotism'...directed at me personally.  

2) Your PMs constitute harassment on this topic and several others.   Hiding behind the moderator function to harass me is not acceptable.

3) The American people have chosen a president, and he is the president for all Americans and legal residents, not foreign nationals.

 

1) It's not personal.  The best posts come from a position of principle, IMO.  'Trump derrangement' or Trump support is based on personal judgement, and therefore would/should change in the face of facts if the poster follows principles.  I have stated that my position on Trump can change and also I expect that yours could as well.  You yourself have touted your amorality on here, as well as your patriotism.  Both words represent principles but at some point they come into conflict.  Then you have to either choose between principles, or skitter away from the conversation.

2) I wouldn't PM you about hidden posts if I was not a moderator so this response is nonsensical. 

3) Fleeing a discussion is your option.  But complaining that I'm Canadian and therefore you're not interested... at the end of a discussion of several posts is definitely borderline.  Your own words indict your fellow Americans, whether I'm Canadian or not.  There are no Canadian facts.

[bush_cheney2004]

2 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

2) I wouldn't PM you about hidden posts if I was not a moderator so this response is nonsensical. 

 

 

Your PM went further than to report a hidden post.  You couldn't help but abuse the moderator role and continue the trolling in addition to what should have been a simple notice of a hidden post.   Disagreeing with your posts is not trolling.

You are on record for trolling me about 'morality' and 'patriotism'.  Please stop trolling me....here...and with PMs.

IMHO, your opinions and attacks on President Trump and the citizens who elected him are irrelevant.....whether Canadian, Peruvian, or Martian.

[Michael Hardner]

I encourage you to disagree with my posts.   I'm not trolling you, I'm discussing with you - respond or don't.  

The relevance of my posts is proven by your continued responses, as I said.  If you disparage my opinions (my positive opinions on Americans mind you) by saying I'm not allowed to respond because I'm not American then that calls into question your presence here, and it is trolling IMHO.