Trudeau tour.

[H10]

19 minutes ago, blueblood said:

She will have to change her lifestyle based on government meddling which is ridiculous.  Not imposing a tax is not a bailout.  She didn't have the Ontario hydro jack her rates all at once to serve wynne's agenda.

at least when Harper was pm she could get by, now she is buried in tax.

Trudeau hasn't really put through any policies yet, if she is suffering and has been for years then its Harper/Wynne/Mcguinty + local politics fault, not the guy who just came on!

She wants me to pay her tax load, no way, pay your own tax.

[blueblood]

3 minutes ago, hernanday said:

Trudeau hasn't really put through any policies yet, if she is suffering and has been for years then its Harper/Wynne/Mcguinty + local politics fault, not the guy who just came on!

She wants me to pay her tax load, no way, pay your own tax.

She doesn't want the carbon tax.  That's it that's all.  She is saying that a lot of people can't afford the tax which is a clear example of taxes lowering living standards.  

[Argus]

1 hour ago, blueblood said:

She doesn't want the carbon tax.  That's it that's all.  She is saying that a lot of people can't afford the tax which is a clear example of taxes lowering living standards.  

Of course they do. But at least if the taxes are for something of value, like health care, or even the military, we can accept that. When the taxes are for nothing but making social justice warriors feel good about themselves, it's a lot harder to take.

[blueblood]

Just now, Argus said:

Of course they do. But at least if the taxes are for something of value, like health care, or even the military, we can accept that. When the taxes are for nothing but making social justice warriors feel good about themselves, it's a lot harder to take.

Well in Ontario it's quite clear that taxation has stifled growth.  It's hard to get blood from a stone.

the question is how much tax is actually necessary

[Argus]

16 minutes ago, blueblood said:

Well in Ontario it's quite clear that taxation has stifled growth.  It's hard to get blood from a stone.

the question is how much tax is actually necessary

Given a carbon tax will accomplish essentially nothing, one is not necessary at all.

[poochy]

Honestly, the hateful and heartless nature of socialists is on full display in the thread, it makes me sick. If a carbon tax that MIGHT knock a few percentage points off of our only 2% contribution to global AGW would actually be enough to prevent it, then maybe this tax would be justified, but it won't do that.  Not a single person here or in this government has proven that it will, not once, it's all touchy feely bs about leadership.  Meanwhile out neighbor who dwarfs our production doesn't have and will not have a carbon tax. They convinced the rabble that they got a "middle class" tax cut, which for most is very small, convinced the same that income splitting was an evil tool of the rich social conservative, which it was not, and for many was better, then increase costs to taxpayers with increases in CPP premiums, something we didn't need, and now a 'world saving' carbon tax, which wont save anything. 

BUT, it is a revenue tool, remember when wynne coined that phrase a while back?  So the socialists pretend to be cutting taxes while instituting others that we don't need and wont have any effect, it's cute that some people believe them, playing on your ignorance and as a result of a lifetime of brainwashing, your desperate need to be seen as 'nice'.  By the time all is said and done I will be losing 5-10k a year, no exaggeration, but surely the squids, et al. of the world needed it more than me, more than my kids, I only work for it, right comrades?  It's funny, because im the middle class he's supposed to be working so hard for, perhaps the problem is I should have done better for myself, since im clearly not as stupid as most of the middle class seems to be, or that at least this government thinks it is.  The Marxists never went away, they've won.

[H10]

14 minutes ago, blueblood said:

She will have to sell and have have her wealth burned up.  She will still struggle to pay rent and the exorbitant hydro rates.  People are poorer as a result of taxes not richer.

 

Good, then sell and stop whining.   Then she will struggle, life is not easy, you are not entitled to any money or wealth.  People earning under 60k a year are net tax receipeints, they don't even pay taxes when all the deductions are added up anyways.

 

14 minutes ago, blueblood said:

The only role of the government is to provide rules to allow the market to function and for some basic necessities such as roads, not the bloated unsustainable mess it is now.  The free market provides a tax base for government to get funds.  Hence the crappy living standards where government was in excess - Venezuela, Soviet Union, North Korea, most of China, India, 

Carbon taxes are part of that necessities.  We need to curb carbon emissions.  We've never had a free market in Canada.  If our market was free the dumping would be legal, there would be almost no regulations on imports or foreign ownership of strategic assets.  And India is probably alot closer to free market than Canada, you go to India and see kids selling bear and gasoline in the streets.

14 minutes ago, blueblood said:

The Saudis folded like a cheap tent.  If Saudis can pump at 3 cents why did they give up their market share by turning off the taps?  

A decision was made to make a deal with fellow muslim states.

 

14 minutes ago, blueblood said:

Ontario believes fossil fuels must be phased out and are paying for it by being over taxed, highest subsovereign debt, and businesses not investing there.  Guess where the new auto plants are going?

There you go with the lying claim of highest debt, not true, California has double the total debt, NL and Quebec have higher debt per capita,and our debt is the result of financing the other provinces for over 60 years with $300 billion in equalization payments.

[H10]

7 hours ago, blueblood said:

She doesn't want the carbon tax.  That's it that's all.  She is saying that a lot of people can't afford the tax which is a clear example of taxes lowering living standards.  

Its not up to her to destroy the earth for future generations.  Alot of people can't afford the tax on a new lambourghini, but that doesn't mean there shouldn't be one.

[H10]

56 minutes ago, poochy said:

Honestly, the hateful and heartless nature of socialists is on full display in the thread, it makes me sick. If a carbon tax that MIGHT knock a few percentage points off of our only 2% contribution to global AGW would actually be enough to prevent it, then maybe this tax would be justified, but it won't do that.  Not a single person here or in this government has proven that it will, not once, it's all touchy feely bs about leadership.  Meanwhile out neighbor who dwarfs our production doesn't have and will not have a carbon tax. They convinced the rabble that they got a "middle class" tax cut, which for most is very small, convinced the same that income splitting was an evil tool of the rich social conservative, which it was not, and for many was better, then increase costs to taxpayers with increases in CPP premiums, something we didn't need, and now a 'world saving' carbon tax, which wont save anything. 

I don't know of any socialist on this forum.  I am a mainline Republican right of center.  I oppose abortion, gay marriage, I oppose assisted suicide, birth control and am in favor of the death penalty.  I oppose subsidies to big agra, big oil, and most other industries, I oppose gmo, I oppose the gun registry, increased gun control, I oppose the expansion of the police state and expanded powers of federal or provincial governments, I oppose any funding to aboriginals for being red indians, I oppose marijuana legalization, I oppose any limits on donations to parties, I oppose spending limits in elections because money is speech, I oppose the acceptance of syrian refugees, I support a mass deportation squad to round up hispanics and send them back to mexico and support a muslim ban until we can figure out what the heck is going on.  I oppose more taxes on the capital gains, and believe it should be lowered, and want lower business taxes as well.  I support the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and its time to get tough on Russia.

 

 

56 minutes ago, poochy said:

BUT, it is a revenue tool, remember when wynne coined that phrase a while back?  So the socialists pretend to be cutting taxes while instituting others that we don't need and wont have any effect, it's cute that some people believe them, playing on your ignorance and as a result of a lifetime of brainwashing, your desperate need to be seen as 'nice'.  By the time all is said and done I will be losing 5-10k a year, no exaggeration, but surely the squids, et al. of the world needed it more than me, more than my kids, I only work for it, right comrades?  It's funny, because im the middle class he's supposed to be working so hard for, perhaps the problem is I should have done better for myself, since im clearly not as stupid as most of the middle class seems to be, or that at least this government thinks it is.  The Marxists never went away, they've won.

Has it ever occured to you that people in Ontario WANT government to solve their problems?  They believe in smart government working for them.  Are they socialist, maybe, alot of our population in the 905 who basically decides every federal and provincial election are people from highly socialistic countries like Italy,China, India, former Ussr, etc.

Unless you are earning over 60k a year, you actually aren't paying net taxes at all.

 

The question I have for middle class people like you is this, if Harper was so great, and Trudeau has only been in power for hardly 2 years and hasn't passed any substantive laws to increase taxes, how can you be blaming him for all your woes.  If you did that well under Harper, surely you should still have alot of Harper money saved up?  Trudeau has not yet increased the taxes in a substantial manner, he has just proposed it, his policies has not changed since he took office, so if you are failing its the Harper policies hurting you, not Trudeau.

 

[-1=e^ipi]

9 hours ago, hernanday said:

Trudeau hasn't really put through any policies yet, if she is suffering and has been for years then its Harper/Wynne/Mcguinty + local politics fault, not the guy who just came on!

 

To be fair, a lot of the issues with respect to high energy prices in Ontario are due to the decisions by the Wynne government. Many individuals in the Trudeau government worked in the Wynne government, in particular Gerald Butts. So I don't think criticizing Trudeau is out of place, because the high energy prices are basically his party's fault and for the most part he is just continuing Wynne-like policies.

 

Though the anger at the CO2 emission tax is misplaced. If Ontario simply had a tax on CO2 emissions like BC did, the situation would not be so bad. Ontario decided to take an inefficient regulatory approach where they just ban things (such as coal) and subsidize renewables. The cost of emission reductions in Ontario has been estimated to be around $250/ton of CO2. In comparison to a $10/ton or $50/ton tax, the anger should be directed at inefficient regulatory approaches.

[blueblood]

4 hours ago, hernanday said:

Its not up to her to destroy the earth for future generations.  Alot of people can't afford the tax on a new lambourghini, but that doesn't mean there shouldn't be one.

She's not destroying the earth.  The earth isn't getting destroyed as carbon levels fluctuate over time which is why a lot of people are rightfully skeptical of the left wing zealots popping an Unnecessary tax on carbon which lowers our standard of living

[blueblood]

4 hours ago, hernanday said:

 

Good, then sell and stop whining.   Then she will struggle, life is not easy, you are not entitled to any money or wealth.  People earning under 60k a year are net tax receipeints, they don't even pay taxes when all the deductions are added up anyways.

It's easy for you to say life is not easy.  Hers is made much more difficult at the hands of government so socialists can pay themselves on the back and waste more money.  People aren't entitled to the government arbitrarily crapping on them

4 hours ago, hernanday said:

 

Carbon taxes are part of that necessities.  We need to curb carbon emissions.  We've never had a free market in Canada.  If our market was free the dumping would be legal, there would be almost no regulations on imports or foreign ownership of strategic assets.  And India is probably alot closer to free market than Canada, you go to India and see kids selling bear and gasoline in the streets.

No we don't need to curb emissions.  We are less than two percent.  The USA isn't doing nothing about theirs and I'm not wanting to be poorer so that socialists can waste money.  Canada has a free market and it has worked a lot better when there is less government.  India has an over regulated market which is why they can't grow.  Your referring to the black market which happens when the government meddles too much such as Venezuela.

4 hours ago, hernanday said:

A decision was made to make a deal with fellow muslim states.

And they made the deal because they got outcompeted by North America.  Apparently 50$ is what's sustainable for them not 3 cents.

4 hours ago, hernanday said:

 

There you go with the lying claim of highest debt, not true, California has double the total debt, NL and Quebec have higher debt per capita,and our debt is the result of financing the other provinces for over 60 years with $300 billion in equalization payments.

The financial  post said it not me.  Ontario is a net receiver of equalization now for the better part of the decade yet they are still massively in debt.

http://www.financialpost.com/m/wp/news/economy/blog.html?b=business.financialpost.com/news/economy/with-twice-the-debt-of-california-ontario-is-now-the-worlds-most-indebted-sub-sovereign-borrower

Not my fault Ontario politicians couldn't run a lemonade stand and now have to lower people's living standards to pay for their mess.

 

[ironstone]

17 hours ago, hernanday said:

We don't know her situation, but she must live within her means, maybe she needs to move to a cheaper community  She is making 3330 a month, that is enough money to live off of, not lavishly, but you'd be living.

 

There you go playing the race carts again.  Canada doesn't even have inner cities.  I live in Bridal path, work down on younge and king, do you even know what our inner city looks like?  Most people living in the city aren't running around with 4,5,6 kids, most people I know are upper middle class to rich and don't have more than 2 kids unless they are in the rich group. Want to be poor have 4 kids and no skills.

You want this lady to live within her means and that's a fair point.How about governments?Do you also want them to live(spend)within their means?

[H10]

6 hours ago, -1=e^ipi said:

To be fair, a lot of the issues with respect to high energy prices in Ontario are due to the decisions by the Wynne government. Many individuals in the Trudeau government worked in the Wynne government, in particular Gerald Butts. So I don't think criticizing Trudeau is out of place, because the high energy prices are basically his party's fault and for the most part he is just continuing Wynne-like policies.

Such as?

Many individuals in the Trudeau government were also appointees of harper, does that mean trudeau is now harper?

if he is going to make a carbon tax, and ontario already got one, where else should he go besides the person whose already done it?

 

6 hours ago, -1=e^ipi said:

Though the anger at the CO2 emission tax is misplaced. If Ontario simply had a tax on CO2 emissions like BC did, the situation would not be so bad. Ontario decided to take an inefficient regulatory approach where they just ban things (such as coal) and subsidize renewables. The cost of emission reductions in Ontario has been estimated to be around $250/ton of CO2. In comparison to a $10/ton or $50/ton tax, the anger should be directed at inefficient regulatory approaches.

Well  can agree on this.

 

[H10]

3 hours ago, blueblood said:

She's not destroying the earth.  The earth isn't getting destroyed as carbon levels fluctuate over time which is why a lot of people are rightfully skeptical of the left wing zealots popping an Unnecessary tax on carbon which lowers our standard of living

climate denier. no way pumping billions of tons of carbon into the atmosphere can not have a negative effect.

[H10]

10 minutes ago, ironstone said:

You want this lady to live within her means and that's a fair point.How about governments?Do you also want them to live(spend)within their means?

To some degree, but governments are expected to spend in bad times to lift the economy.

[H10]

3 hours ago, blueblood said:

It's easy for you to say life is not easy.  Hers is made much more difficult at the hands of government so socialists can pay themselves on the back and waste more money.  People aren't entitled to the government arbitrarily crapping on them

 

More non-sense, she probably pays a net negative tax rate, 4 kids, getting 10k from the government for them.

3 hours ago, blueblood said:

No we don't need to curb emissions.  We are less than two percent.  The USA isn't doing nothing about theirs and I'm not wanting to be poorer so that socialists can waste money.  Canada has a free market and it has worked a lot better when there is less government.  India has an over regulated market which is why they can't grow.  Your referring to the black market which happens when the government meddles too much such as Venezuela.

 

lead by example. Those third world countries have far less regulation because the governments are too busy with paying the bills to even regulate things like that.  And no, it is not a black market, it is unregulated.

3 hours ago, blueblood said:

And they made the deal because they got outcompeted by North America.  Apparently 50$ is what's sustainable for them not 3 cents.

oil is not a free market, it is controled by a cartel called opec

3 hours ago, blueblood said:

The financial  post said it not me.  Ontario is a net receiver of equalization now for the better part of the decade yet they are still massively in debt.

http://www.financialpost.com/m/wp/news/economy/blog.html?b=business.financialpost.com/news/economy/with-twice-the-debt-of-california-ontario-is-now-the-worlds-most-indebted-sub-sovereign-borrower

Not my fault Ontario politicians couldn't run a lemonade stand and now have to lower people's living standards to pay for their mess.

 

Your source is wrong then.  Ontario has never been a net receiver of equalization because the federal government just clawed the money back by withholding funds that should have gone to the province.  Ontario can never be a net receiver, for it is too large, and there is no where else who could even cover that.  This is why despite being a havenot province, ontario still sends $15 billion more to the feds than they get back.

[ironstone]

7 minutes ago, hernanday said:

To some degree, but governments are expected to spend in bad times to lift the economy.

The Ontario Liberals have been spending like mad for a long time now supposedly to lift the economy.We are a have-not province and our economy is in the toilet.It's not working but I would argue that it's mainly to do with idiotic spending decisions.

[-1=e^ipi]

47 minutes ago, hernanday said:

Such as?

Trudeau is doing a Canada-wide coal phase out by 2030. So the federal government is contradicting itself. Citing that a tax on CO2 emissions is the most economically efficient way to reduce emissions, then they ignore that claim in order to add regulations to coal.

[H10]

2 hours ago, ironstone said:

The Ontario Liberals have been spending like mad for a long time now supposedly to lift the economy.We are a have-not province and our economy is in the toilet.It's not working but I would argue that it's mainly to do with idiotic spending decisions.

We have among the highest growth in any region in the entire G7 and canada. Alberta is shrinking and dying.

" Ontario’s economy grew 0.7 per cent in the third quarter of last year outpacing growth in the United Kingdom, Japan, Italy, Germany, and France, according to data released Friday. "

 

" The province remains a growth leader in Canada and amongst G7 countries. But there is still more work to do "

"

With the Canadian dollar hovering at around 75 cents against the U.S. greenback – thanks to low oil prices that are walloping Alberta – Ontario exports are helping propel the economy.

“Higher exports were the primary driver behind the third quarter gain, while continued growth in household spending also contributed to the overall increase in real GDP (gross domestic product),

"

https://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2017/01/13/ontario-economy-growing-at-26-per-cent.html

 

We are a have not province who still manages to send more money to Ottawa and other provinces than we receive.  Why should we be fiscally responsible when our money just gets spent off in Quebec, the maritimes and the west?  Better to spend our own money, run large deficits and have the money here, then somewhere else.

[H10]

1 hour ago, -1=e^ipi said:

Trudeau is doing a Canada-wide coal phase out by 2030. So the federal government is contradicting itself. Citing that a tax on CO2 emissions is the most economically efficient way to reduce emissions, then they ignore that claim in order to add regulations to coal.

You said:

"

8 hours ago, -1=e^ipi said:

To be fair, a lot of the issues with respect to high energy prices in Ontario are due to the decisions by the Wynne government. Many individuals in the Trudeau government worked in the Wynne government, in particular Gerald Butts. So I don't think criticizing Trudeau is out of place, because the high energy prices are basically his party's fault and for the most part he is just continuing Wynne-like policies.

I said "Such as?"

You respond by talking about Trudeau.  trudeau is not in the Wynne government.  What has the Wynne government done to create high energy prices in Ontario.  Stay on focus here.

[Boges]

Apparently the lady has been getting threats from the very tolerant left in this country. 

How dare you challenge His Highness publicly! 

[PIK]

So we are going to send billions to California to save the world. How much more stupid can the left get in this country.

Edited January 16, 2017 by PIK

[The_Squid]

4 hours ago, Boges said:

Apparently the lady has been getting threats from the very tolerant left in this country. 

How dare you challenge His Highness publicly! 

Anyone who makes threats is an idiot...  and not very tolerant.  Questioning the veracity of her claims on the interwebs is one thing...  tracking her down is just creepy and wrong.

I doubt it's the tolerant left making threats.

[PIK]

1 hour ago, The_Squid said:

Anyone who makes threats is an idiot...  and not very tolerant.  Questioning the veracity of her claims on the interwebs is one thing...  tracking her down is just creepy and wrong.

I doubt it's the tolerant left making threats.

The left being tolerant is a myth. But you notice trudeau is not letting wynne near him on the ONT tour.