DogOnPorch Posted January 23, 2017 Report Share Posted January 23, 2017 10 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said: Can you really buy a nation's land like that, though? Doesn't it sound a bit dodgy? It's not a simple question and reminds me of an attempt by a Newfoundlander to sell the water in a lake to the Americans which might have opened up all lakes to similar sales in the country under NAFTA. Fortunately, Chretien stepped in and stopped the deal. Is Yasser Arafat the only Palestinian? Why was he born in Cairo? Weren't many Jewish settlers born abroad as well? Stables and horse come to mind. The Ottoman Empire was a fact since the Middle Ages. You can always attempt to rewrite history. Haj Amin al-Husseini was born in the Jerusalem region. Arafat was his nephew. The al-Husseini clan is technically what you're actually supporting re: "Palestinians". Though it is no longer an all al-Husseini affair. They were the enemies of the Hashemites who also vied for control of the Temple Mount and all the power it brought over the Muslim population of the region. Both clans still think themselves as direct descendants of Mohammad and thus, born to rule. The 'Palestinians' you champion assassinated Jordan's first King, Abdullah I...a man of peace compared to the other Arab leader. He wanted peace with Israel...silly rabbit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpankyMcFarland Posted January 23, 2017 Report Share Posted January 23, 2017 8 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said: The Ottoman Empire was a fact since the Middle Ages. You can always attempt to rewrite history. Haj Amin al-Husseini was born in the Jerusalem region. Arafat was his nephew. The al-Husseini clan is technically what you're actually supporting re: "Palestinians". Though it is no longer an all al-Husseini affair. They were the enemies of the Hashemites who also vied for control of the Temple Mount and all the power it brought over the Muslim population of the region. Both clans still think themselves as direct descendants of Mohammad and thus, born to rule. The 'Palestinians' you champion assassinated Jordan's first King, Abdullah I...a man of peace compared to the other Arab leader. He wanted peace with Israel...silly rabbit. Being born abroad does not make one a foreigner for life. I hope we can agree on that at least. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted January 23, 2017 Report Share Posted January 23, 2017 (edited) 10 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said: Being born abroad does not make one a foreigner for life. I hope we can agree on that at least. You can not apply today's rules on yesterday. It isn't retroactive. It isn't a case of the Ottoman Empire keeping the poor mythical Palestinians oppressed. That's a fantasy on your part if so. And if you have other fantasies involving the Palestinians being the Philistines of the Bible, think again. Alexander the Great literally eliminated them well before any Arab ever left the Arabian peninsula. Those Sea Peoples are long-long gone....like Alexander himself. You knew the entire region was Greek for centuries...right? Let's assume yes, eh? Edited January 23, 2017 by DogOnPorch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpankyMcFarland Posted January 23, 2017 Report Share Posted January 23, 2017 I don't recall offering an opinion on any of those matters - must say my fantasies generally run in other directions. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted January 23, 2017 Report Share Posted January 23, 2017 Big Al crucified the entire male population of the Southern Levant after Tyre and Gaza. The women and children were all force marched to Macedonia as slaves. He was a bit psycho... The Jews were no fools....they saw this tempest coming and rushed out to proclaim their communities open and their loyalty assured. Alexander spared them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kactus Posted January 23, 2017 Report Share Posted January 23, 2017 It was the Persians who saved Jews from persecution in the past and near present.... Cyrus Frees the Jews in Babylon http://www.thestarofthemagi.com/howcyrussavedthejews.htm And the 'Iranian Schindler' who saved Jews from the Nazis... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-16190541 Iran: We Saved the Jews Three Times; Netanyahu Should Learn History read more: http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.645497 The Iranian Schindler: How thousands of Iranian Jews in America owe their lives to Paris diplomathttp://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2078238/The-Iranian-Schindler-How-thousands-Iranian-Jews-America-owe-lives-Paris-diplomat.html 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted January 23, 2017 Report Share Posted January 23, 2017 13 hours ago, DogOnPorch said: Not sure where this is going. Look: you're free to supports the Nazi Palestinian Cause...just don't expect me to. You can use whatever slice of history you deem appropriate to justify said support for al-Husseini's efforts. I can't think of anything that inspires more contempt for Israel than ten years of listening to your interpretation of history. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted January 23, 2017 Report Share Posted January 23, 2017 1 minute ago, eyeball said: I can't think of anything that inspires more contempt for Israel than ten years of listening to your interpretation of history. Contempt for reality amongst the antisemites. Who cares? Not I. You're free to give your REAL version of history where Islam is all peaceful and loves Jews. Meanwhile: Jews are cursed by Allah to be as Apes and Pigs despised. Quran 7:166 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted January 23, 2017 Report Share Posted January 23, 2017 Bully for your favorite prophet, I curse Israel for being an obstinate prick. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted January 24, 2017 Report Share Posted January 24, 2017 10 hours ago, kactus said: It was the Persians who saved Jews from persecution in the past and near present.... Cyrus Frees the Jews in Babylon http://www.thestarofthemagi.com/howcyrussavedthejews.htm And the 'Iranian Schindler' who saved Jews from the Nazis... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-16190541 Iran: We Saved the Jews Three Times; Netanyahu Should Learn History read more: http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.645497 The Iranian Schindler: How thousands of Iranian Jews in America owe their lives to Paris diplomathttp://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2078238/The-Iranian-Schindler-How-thousands-Iranian-Jews-America-owe-lives-Paris-diplomat.html Before the 1979 Iranian Revolution, Israel and Iran were close allies and trading partners. Israel bought much of Iran's oil...both countries exchanged military training programs and what-not. Then came the Mullahs...who had been unhappy with the Shah's relationship with Jews as well as the Empress's push towards modernity and women's rights. They swayed the religious against the Shah via sermons aimed at Jews...backed by the antisemitism found in the Quran. The rest we're all familiar with...let's hang some gays...arrest some women...etc. A model Islamic State. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcus Posted January 24, 2017 Report Share Posted January 24, 2017 On 1/20/2017 at 9:29 AM, Argus said: In other words, you can't support it and won't try because you know they have no claim. And as I said, there is ZERO chance of them ever returning. So insisting they stay in 'refugee' camps even generations later is nothing more than brutal, heartless geopolitics by surrounding Arab dictators. There are no other words. You simply don't know the basics of regional politics. When you're sitting there, claiming the Palestinian refugees have no legal claim to the land they were driven from or that only 35,000 of them existed, then you may want to do less posting and more reading. Here is one place you could start with: http://www.ifamericansknew.org/history/ref-qumsiyeh.html 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted January 24, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2017 (edited) On 1/22/2017 at 8:18 PM, SpankyMcFarland said: That's all true but they did end up providing concrete assistance to the Nazis' push into Russia with all the horrors that entailed. In what way were the Russians any better than the Germans? And as far as the Finns were concerned, the Russians had attacked them while the Germans had helped them. Remember that the gas chambers and what was going on there was not necessarily widely known at the time. Quote Are they the only Axis ally that gets a pass? They did have to pay reparations, and the Russians did steal some of their land. Aside from that, they were a democracy, and remained so, and they were attacked first, and east and west agreed to allow them to be a neutral buffer state between them in that location. Edited January 24, 2017 by Argus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted January 24, 2017 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2017 15 hours ago, marcus said: There are no other words. You simply don't know the basics of regional politics. When you're sitting there, claiming the Palestinian refugees have no legal claim to the land they were driven from or that only 35,000 of them existed, then you may want to do less posting and more reading. Here is one place you could start with: http://www.ifamericansknew.org/history/ref-qumsiyeh.html Are you saying a Palestinian says they have the right to return!? I'm shocked! I'm amazed! Hundreds of thousands of Jews were driven out of the surrounding Arab countries and somehow I never see you people sniveling about their plight, demanding they be allowed to return, or demanding reparations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcus Posted January 29, 2017 Report Share Posted January 29, 2017 (edited) On 1/24/2017 at 2:26 PM, Argus said: Are you saying a Palestinian says they have the right to return!? I'm shocked! I'm amazed! Hundreds of thousands of Jews were driven out of the surrounding Arab countries and somehow I never see you people sniveling about their plight, demanding they be allowed to return, or demanding reparations. Any injustice done to anyone, regardless of their religion or ethnicity is wrong. There should be reparation. I'm all for it. The Asian Jews should be allowed to go back to their countries of origin. I have never said or thought otherwise. I also think the European Jews, who are the overwhelming majority of the migrants, should also go back or accept to live within one nation, with Muslims, Jews, Christians and any other religion. By the way, I just want to follow-up because you went off on a tangent: Did you read the link I shared with you? Have you replaced the wrong information from your head, re: a) how many Palestinians were driven out of their land and b ) Palestinian's legal claim to the land, with the correct information? Edited January 29, 2017 by marcus 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drummindiver Posted February 1, 2017 Report Share Posted February 1, 2017 Suprisingly, a certain member has not posted about renewed Turkey and Israeli talks. http://www.newsweek.com/israel-and-turkey-set-first-official-talks-six-years-after-diplomatic-thaw-550630 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted February 1, 2017 Report Share Posted February 1, 2017 On 1/23/2017 at 9:41 AM, DogOnPorch said: You can not apply today's rules on yesterday. It isn't retroactive. It isn't a case of the Ottoman Empire keeping the poor mythical Palestinians oppressed. That's a fantasy on your part if so. The creation of the modern Israel says you are wrong about applying today's rules on yesterday. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted February 7, 2017 Report Share Posted February 7, 2017 http://www.cbsnews.com/news/israel-passes-law-legalizing-thousands-of-west-bank-settlement-homes/ Israel has retroactively approved of all settlements in the West Bank. Apparently the government is divided over this news. Nothing more than legalized land theft in the name of 'security' for Israelis. Time goes on, Israel grabs more land. Many give them a pass on land grabbing, but when other nations like Russia do it is seems to be bad. One day Israel will rule over all of that, that seems inevitable. What is the real cause of this conflict? Not Muslim antisemitism. If it is really still a reason, it no longer the biggest reason for the conflict. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted February 7, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2017 3 hours ago, GostHacked said: What is the real cause of this conflict? Not Muslim antisemitism. If it is really still a reason, it no longer the biggest reason for the conflict. Here's what you need to do to understand how Israelis feel. Have your next door neighbour scream insults at you every single day, and throw things at you from across the yard. Even if you like him now, see how long it takes before you despise him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted February 7, 2017 Report Share Posted February 7, 2017 2 hours ago, Argus said: Here's what you need to do to understand how Israelis feel. Have your next door neighbour scream insults at you every single day, and throw things at you from across the yard. Even if you like him now, see how long it takes before you despise him. Maybe they should have checked out the neighborhood before they bought. One cannot move out to the wilderness and then complain about bear attacks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overthere Posted February 7, 2017 Report Share Posted February 7, 2017 On 23/01/2017 at 2:09 PM, eyeball said: Bully for your favorite prophet, I curse Israel for being an obstinate prick. Translated: why can't those dirty Jews just stop struggling and just hurry up and die? 13 minutes ago, GostHacked said: Maybe they should have checked out the neighborhood before they bought. One cannot move out to the wilderness and then complain about bear attacks. The neighbourhood they moved from was mostly concentration camps, and their lease was up there. Oh, and they were moved by consensus and collective political will of guilt ridden European countries. Who could have guessed that those same Jews, the ones who died by the millions during the war, would prove to be so uncooperative in doing it again in Palestine? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted February 7, 2017 Report Share Posted February 7, 2017 7 minutes ago, overthere said: Translated: why can't those dirty Jews just stop struggling and just hurry up and die? The neighbourhood they moved from was mostly concentration camps, and their lease was up there. Oh, and they were moved by consensus and collective political will of guilt ridden European countries. Who could have guessed that those same Jews, the ones who died by the millions during the war, would prove to be so uncooperative in doing it again in Palestine? I appreciate and understand their struggle. But now it is against people who had really nothing to do with it in the first place (well unless you go back centuries) So because European nations screwed up, Palestinians have been paying the price for 60+ years. Does that make sense to you? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rue Posted February 7, 2017 Report Share Posted February 7, 2017 On 2017-01-23 at 9:33 AM, SpankyMcFarland said: Being born abroad does not make one a foreigner for life. I hope we can agree on that at least. He No but it certainly was one of thousands of lies that flew out of Arafat's mouth over the years. He denied being born in Egypt when he had a thick Egyptian accent and everyone knew he was born there. That's the issue. He was a pathological liar and the Western press used to quote this man as if he was truthful and reliable. He was a liar. The man was a drug dealer. He ran drug caravans of heroin and hashish from Afghanistan, Iran. Pakistan Jordan, Syria, to Marseilles, France and on to New York City. He was protected by La Deuxieme Bureau who allowed him in return for being one of the world's largest drug dealers assisting them procure business in the Middle East. This was no freedom fighter. He used the PLO and the PA as his operational cover. His supposed Palestinian subjects starved while he put billions in his Swiss bank accounts. He ridiculed the concept of "Palestinian" national and only began using the term in 1967 after he could not assassinate king Hussein in Jordan and take over the state with a violent coups. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rue Posted February 7, 2017 Report Share Posted February 7, 2017 32 minutes ago, GostHacked said: I appreciate and understand their struggle. But now it is against people who had really nothing to do with it in the first place (well unless you go back centuries) So because European nations screwed up, Palestinians have been paying the price for 60+ years. Does that make sense to you? Palestinians have been paying the price of allowing terrorists to continue leading them. Their peaceful moderate leaders were forcefully thrown out. When do Palestinians take some responsibility or any responsibility for their fate? How long do you blame their state of internal chaos, choice of violent terrorist representatives, corruption on European nations or Israel? Why just Europe by the way. How did China and Russia escape your moral blame? You think both have not manipulated and exploited the Middle East crisis? You cling to this antiquated 1960's Marxist-Leninist analysis of the world taught in high schools and colleges and universities in the 70's and 80's where the entire world was a colonial victim of the US, West Europe or Zionist Jews. You ignore the roles of China Russia and third world countries. You engage in selective moral blaming and stereotyping that absolves Palestinians or Arabs or extremist Muslims of any culpability for the choices they make. In the Middle East people like you are referred to as suffering from Laurence of Arabia delusion. Another white man with a sun burn claiming to speak of the ME's people as victims of the white man. What a crock. The ME is made up of men of all colours who choose to kill one another. They have been doing that long since Christians created a religion or Europe existed. Blood and tribal war is intrinsic and inherent to the deserts. Save your quaint white liberal guilt analysis. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted February 8, 2017 Report Share Posted February 8, 2017 4 hours ago, Rue said: Palestinians have been paying the price of allowing terrorists to continue leading them. Their peaceful moderate leaders were forcefully thrown out. When do Palestinians take some responsibility or any responsibility for their fate? How long do you blame their state of internal chaos, choice of violent terrorist representatives, corruption on European nations or Israel? Why just Europe by the way. How did China and Russia escape your moral blame? You think both have not manipulated and exploited the Middle East crisis? You cling to this antiquated 1960's Marxist-Leninist analysis of the world taught in high schools and colleges and universities in the 70's and 80's where the entire world was a colonial victim of the US, West Europe or Zionist Jews. You ignore the roles of China Russia and third world countries. You engage in selective moral blaming and stereotyping that absolves Palestinians or Arabs or extremist Muslims of any culpability for the choices they make. In the Middle East people like you are referred to as suffering from Laurence of Arabia delusion. Another white man with a sun burn claiming to speak of the ME's people as victims of the white man. What a crock. The ME is made up of men of all colours who choose to kill one another. They have been doing that long since Christians created a religion or Europe existed. Blood and tribal war is intrinsic and inherent to the deserts. Save your quaint white liberal guilt analysis. How do you expect the Palestinians to get their shit together when you have Israel retroactively legalizing the settlements? We've been over this again and again, even you agree the settlements are an issue, but yet, I still get push back from you regarding it. China and Russia escape my blame because I simply don't know what they did to Jews. However I am sure you'd be able to tell me all about it in great length. Actually since I don't know much about Marxist-Lenist stuff, it's really irrelevant to my stance. Actually I have no guilt. Because I was not the problem and not a perpetrator in atrocities against Jews. And you are right, this crap has been going on for centuries, something I had mentioned before, and wow, looks like you agree. And I never claimed to speak for them. I speak for myself and what I see. Screw your stupid projections. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted February 9, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2017 On 2/7/2017 at 2:39 PM, GostHacked said: Maybe they should have checked out the neighborhood before they bought. One cannot move out to the wilderness and then complain about bear attacks. You can shoot the bears, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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