Immigration of religious fanatics

[GostHacked]

Just now, DogOnPorch said:

LOL...with what? Mind rays?

Well, at least you don't jump to conclusions easily that don't make any sense. I'd ask for an intelligent response, but I know I won't get it. Some here are simply incapable of generating a proper response that is not childish in nature.

[DogOnPorch]

Just now, GostHacked said:

Well, at least you don't jump to conclusions easily that don't make any sense. I'd ask for an intelligent response, but I know I won't get it. Some here are simply incapable of generating a proper response that is not childish in nature.

Okay, GH...why not explain how Putin and Obama are making Muslims kill each other. Seems to me if they're being duped by Superpowers, they would simply put their weapons down when informed of this...errr...fact of yours.

[GostHacked]

7 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

Okay, GH...why not explain how Putin and Obama are making Muslims kill each other. Seems to me if they're being duped by Superpowers, they would simply put their weapons down when informed of this...errr...fact of yours.

That's been dealt with in other threads and is not really part of this argument in this thread.  However on the short, Russia backs Syria, while US/NATO backs the FSA, It's not Russia or the US sustaining the casualties like Muslims are. But I know you are in agreement that only a good Muslim is a dead Muslim.

 

And before you get more confused, it's not so much Putin and Obama, but the military advisors calling the shots and getting the leaders to sign off on it. You know, that thing called 'foreign policy' Like the one in the US regarding the invasion of Iraq under Bush Jr.

Edited December 26, 2016 by GostHacked

[carepov]

1 hour ago, drummindiver said:

 

You contradict.  The Muslim world is decades behind.  The.muslims in Canada have the same beliefs you know which is what makes them muslims.

1,000,000,000 people have the same beliefs?

[dialamah]

11 minutes ago, carepov said:

1,000,000,000 people have the same beliefs?

They are clones, obviously.   One point five billion people with nary a different thought among them, they put The Borg to shame.  

[DogOnPorch]

5 minutes ago, dialamah said:

They are clones, obviously.   One point five billion people with nary a different thought among them, they put The Borg to shame.  

So there are different Qurans?

[Argus]

14 hours ago, cannuck said:

As opposed to Christendom and Judaism having none??

There is as broad a spectrum of political philosophies within Islam as there is in any other place or group.

Islam has an entire code of criminal and family law as well as instructions on how government needs to operate. As such it is as much a political ideology as it is a religious one.

[Argus]

57 minutes ago, carepov said:

1,000,000,000 people have the same beliefs?

I take it you have never studied nor do you belong to a religion, nor do you understand how they work?

[drummindiver]

1 hour ago, carepov said:

1,000,000,000 people have the same beliefs?

You said million muslims right? What makes them muslims if not their belief?

Of course,   we all know what beliefs you are really talking about,  don't we?

[Rue]

23 hours ago, cannuck said:

I find it a bit disturbing that we have so much trouble distinguishing between religious beliefs and political ones.

Fundamentalist Islam does not differentiate state from religion, national identity from religious identity, religion from political and legal systems and so this is why when discussing Islamic extremism there is no distinction made.  They don't make one. Sharia law, a fundamental principle of the religion is necessarily legal, political and social in inherent nature.

Edited December 26, 2016 by Rue

[GostHacked]

2 hours ago, drummindiver said:

Lol...uh no.

In the case of Syria, yes indeed.  It all started when the US backed certain rebel groups to go against Assad, hell even Turkey gave them a base of operations. With that from the other side, Russia is backing Assad, so you can look at it as another proxy war, and this also shows how other foreign powers are making Muslims fight each other.

I've proven just that with other threads pertaining to Syria. Try to prove me wrong with another 'LOL NO'  bit. Can't do it can you?

However, before we get another thread locked, let's get back to the topic. As much as I want that to happen, it's been proven to me that some here are simply asshats and want to emulate a shankhunt42 scenario. They do it because they think it's fun.

I don't want religious extremists of any religion to come into Canada. Or get this even if they are not religious, but extremist, I don't want them in my country.

Edited December 26, 2016 by GostHacked

[Rue]

In regards to the current screening process of Syrian refugees, the initial wave were sponsored privately and had nothng to do with Trudeau and these people were selected as part of Harpers' program.

Today's refugees that would come to Canada would most likely becoming from Iraq and  Syria, via Jordan and Turkey.

The majority of refugees in the world usually don't travel to Canada and Europe and find themselves in refugee camps.

The no.1 killer of refugees other than the war zones they come from is still dehydration, cholera, dysentery, basic stomach bugs in dirty war and  health conditions that make it impossible to digest food and then they waste away. Tuberculosis is also prevalent.

Children and the elderly are the first to die from this,

One of two refugees from a confict zone has a mental illness of some kind which also triggers physical maladies and increases their likelihood of diabetes, cancer heart disease.

Vitamin deficiency including survy rots the teeth which then contributes to heart ailments, and other conditions.

Sexual assault is rampant in refugee camps and therefore so is aids, herpes and other std's.

The above is the kind of thing no one likes to discuss or you will ever hear.

The vast majority of refugees would be better off going back to their countries if they could. What they need in the interim is food,water, shelter in sanitary conditions, then activities to keep people from killing themselves literally if they can overcome the above.

In fact the challenges are very similar to what Canada faces with native peoples in certain reservations and communities.

If you physically contain people and hold them in a sort of suspended animation between cultures or between societies, they literally die from neglect and its a process with all the above issues.

Now how you screen for potential terrorists?

Well at the current time the United Nations Refugee Commission does the initial screening. The host nation may have informants as well within the camps paid to keep an eye out for new in coming refugees.

Screening for a potential terrorist is like looking for a needle in a haystack. You can take a fingerprint, an iris scan then send that to Interpol or the host nation security authority in charge of counter intelligence, etc., but rarely do names come up this way.

More to the point most terrorists don't start as terrorists, The radicalization might occur over a period of time in the camps, but it can al so happen after the n on terrorist refugees live in their host countries. It can happen to the first second, third generation of people coming in as refugees or immigrants.

Radicalization can take place in a camo, a Mosque a community centre, in someone's home.

The terrorist profile  we think of is a young male, unemployed, angry, feeling he can't make it in his new society, ashamed of his parents, often called on to translate noy just language but cultural differences to his family and elders.

Young males, unemployed, feeling they can't possibly make it in the Western material world and one other crucial factor, no female mate.

Young men who do not feel they can get married easily and raise families get sexually frustrated seeing women all around them of the other culture, dressed in a way they consider sexual and provocative. Such stimulus can incite rape, impotence, alcoholism, drug abuse, eating disorders, all kinds of inner personality disorders generated from feeling powerless.

That's the classic profile but its only one. Terrorists come from any environment. They can come from very rich spoiled upper class children who grew up with nannies, no real famiiy structure and no limitations. Such people do not know what the word no means and they are used to having servants. So as they grow and have ot enter the real world they cushion themselves from the real world by creating an environment where they can remain in charge of servants and not be questioned. That is what Osama Ben Laden was.

Then we have people brought up in poverty and violence and whose only exposure to armies, people in uniform, is a violent one. They have limited education and at a very young age they are recruited and used.

Then you have what we call the sociopathic or manipulative terrorist, essentially a criminal engaging in prostitution, drug sales, the selling of women and children as sex toys, and the selling of weapons of any kind. Arafat was a classic example. Yasir Arafat was an Egyptian, not a Palestinian, who used family connections to rise to be the head of a heroin-hash hish smuggling network that send its drus to the port of Marseilles. France and then on to New York City as was made famous in the movie French connection.

Arafats drug caravans of hash hish and opium moved from Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, Lebanon, Jordan and Syria through Turkish, Syrian, Egyptian ports and had elaborate networks of corrupt government officials and people of all political beliefs making money out of it.

The Western Press created Arafat as a Palestinian Guerilla. The original PLO was in fact the Fedayeen not the PLO. PLO is a word the Western press invented for the many different cells in the Fedayeen. It was La Deuxieme Bureau, France's CIA under DeGaulles that created Arafat and used him to broker all kinds of deals for France in the Middle East. Arafat brokered French business interests and he also helped get contracts for German, Belgian, English, Chinese, Russian, Est European nations in return for his being able to distribute heroin and hash hish in these nations.

The point is many terrorists are in fact agents of government intelligence agencies used for specific interests. Ghaddafi, Nasser, Hussein, Noriega, just a few examples of IA friendly agents. Assad? He has been propped by Iran and Russia for over 20 years. ISIL, a Tirkish-American creation. Al Quaeda? An offshoot of the Taliban. The Taliban? They were the Afghani Fedayeen who the US and British courted to fight Russia in Afghanistan.

Look at where terrorists operate from. They operate from nations where China, Russia, the US, France and Britain have been able to use various groups and leaders as proxies for their own interests.

The largest financiers of terrorism in the ME and the world have always been Saudi Arabia and Iran. Pakistan is a nation that is over 70% controlled by radical extremist factions.

Huge chunks of China and Russia are controlled by Muslim extremists

In the Kashmir are pockets of Muslim extremists. In Africa today in Mali, Nigeria, Chad, Niger, Dahomey, Senegal, Tunisia, Morrocco Algerian, Tanzania,

Kenya, Somalia, are major Muslim extremist terrorist sites.

The Philippines, Indonesia and Malaysia have volatile Muslim terror cells protected by geography of numerous islands and thick jungles.

Then there are Muslim terrorists all across Europe today in various stages of recruitment.

There are extremist terrorists in the Punjab who are seek, extremist terrorists in Kashmir who are Siekh, Hindu and Muslim.

In the US are extreme right wing groups that are Christian but motivated by a kind of libertarian anarchist ideology.

Not all terrorists are young men. They can now be women, children, academics.

We also have drug cartels whose principle method of operation to control huge swaths of territory to create and export drugs engage in ongoing  terror war in Columbia, Peru, Mexico, other areas in South America.

Then there is the tie in between organized crime of the Russian Mob, Mafia, Chinese and Vietnamese triads who have no political ideology laundering and making money for dummy companies that send the money back to Iran's government or specific terror groups Venezuela is now he Switzerland of the world for banking money from sex  and drug trades and resending it to terrorist groups.

Devout Shiite Muslims working for Iranian intelligence have no problems fueling heroin, sex trafficking rings in the West.

Terrorists can not necessarily be profiled.

Some will develop into terrorists long after they have been screened.

Today's terrorist profile can range from an angry idiot on the street used to engage in a violent act to a sophisticated international financier schooled in the most elite of universities.

The bottom line is, our war against terrorism is far more complex then simplifying it as a bunch of angry Muslims. At the root of terrorism are usually men, brutal men seeking to make money and gain power over others.

[Rue]

40 minutes ago, GostHacked said:

In the case of Syria, yes indeed.  It all started when the US backed certain rebel groups to go against Assad, hell even Turkey gave them a base of operations. With that from the other side, Russia is backing Assad, so you can look at it as another proxy war, and this also shows how other foreign powers are making Muslims fight each other.

I've proven just that with other threads pertaining to Syria. Try to prove me wrong with another 'LOL NO'  bit. Can't do it can you?

However, before we get another thread locked, let's get back to the topic. As much as I want that to happen, it's been proven to me that some here are simply asshats and want to emulate a shankhunt42 scenario. They do it because they think it's fun.

I don't want religious extremists of any religion to come into Canada. Or get this even if they are not religious, but extremist, I don't want them in my country.

No that's the snapshot of history you choose to start from.

Moder Syria was in an inner state of turmoil since the French tried to turn it into a puppet colony by the Picot agreement back in the 20's.

Before the French called it the Republic of Syria and it was part of the Assyrian Empire or other empires, civil wars always arose.

Civil war in the region known today as Syria has been going on for over 3,000 years/

Your take on history if you want to discuss the modern civil wars should start after the Picot agreement to understand the origins of the civil war Assad inherited and even that can' t properly be understood unless you trace back the history of violence that has continued since Biblical times.

But hey thanks. I love it when people who know nothing about Syria's historic origins think their problems simply started because of the USA or Erdogan.

Foreign policy experts, Good God man at least find out who pinhead Assad's father was and what that mad man did, and before him the Bath Party and before that....

now back to this thread, civil war has been so continuous in Syria that there is rampant inbreeding because Syrians are so distrustful of one another, even in the next village down, that they marry inside their own families.

There are genetic diseases and mental illness in Syria caused by this inbreeding and if anyone mentions ir they get accused of being bigoted.

Marrying cousins, marrying within families is rampant in Muslim countries and those in the Middle East and its a health issue that may be related to some of the behaviour we see and no its not screened. Genetic diseases from in-breeding are not screened.

Edited December 26, 2016 by Rue

[drummindiver]

7 hours ago, GostHacked said:

In the case of Syria, yes indeed.  It all started when the US backed certain rebel groups to go against Assad, hell even Turkey gave them a base of operations. With that from the other side, Russia is backing Assad, so you can look at it as another proxy war, and this also shows how other foreign powers are making Muslims fight each other.

I've proven just that with other threads pertaining to Syria. Try to prove me wrong with another 'LOL NO'  bit. Can't do it can you?

However, before we get another thread locked, let's get back to the topic. As much as I want that to happen, it's been proven to me that some here are simply asshats and want to emulate a shankhunt42 scenario. They do it because they think it's fun.

I don't want religious extremists of any religion to come into Canada. Or get this even if they are not religious, but extremist, I don't want them in my country.

No one is making muslim fight muslim. They do it of their own volition and others pick the side that benefits them most.

Personal responsibility.

[carepov]

9 hours ago, Argus said:

I take it you have never studied nor do you belong to a religion, nor do you understand how they work?

If Muslims all believed the same thing they would not be fighting each other...

[drummindiver]

21 hours ago, dialamah said:

They are clones, obviously.   One point five billion people with nary a different thought among them, they put The Borg to shame.  

We are talking same religious beliefs. But wait,  it's not just religious,  it's political and social. We are not talkin which shade of black for our nojab here.

[dialamah]

32 minutes ago, drummindiver said:

We are talking same religious beliefs. But wait,  it's not just religious,  it's political and social. We are not talkin which shade of black for our nojab here.

Muslim majority countries apply Sharia law differently; some do not use it at all.    Some countries have Sharia law for family matters only; others use it for criminal cases as well.  Israel allows the application of Sharia family law for it's Muslim citizens.   Lebanon combines civil, Islamic and Ottoman law, and allows 17 different family and religious courts for each of its 17 official religions.   In Malaysia, Muslims are bound by Sharia law for personal matters, while other faiths are handled under civil law.  Malaysia allows for Sharia criminal law to be implemented within each State, and some have done so; however, the laws contravene the Federal constitution, and have not been implemented.  Niger, Senegal and Turkey (among others) do not apply Sharia law at all.   Even in countries where Sharia law is used extensively, the application differs between countries and even jurisdictions.   To repeat, Islam does not produce clones whether one is talking about religious beliefs or Sharia law.  

And just because someone in Egypt or Syria thinks that Sharia law should be the law of the land in their country It does not follow that they also want to impose Sharia in other countries.   As just a little bit of research shows, Muslim majority countries often only apply Sharia to it's Muslim citizens and allow the minority religions to follow civil or some other legal system.  Some non-Muslim majority countries, such as Thailand and Greece, allow limited application of Sharia law for Muslims in their countries and have done so for decades without their own civil system being affected.   Even if Muslims want Sharia for themselves, the evidence clearly demonstrates that they do not have any burning desire to impose Sharia on non-Muslims.

 

 

 

 

 

[DogOnPorch]

38 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Even if Muslims want Sharia for themselves, the evidence clearly demonstrates that they do not have any burning desire to impose Sharia on non-Muslims.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh yeah? The Quran disagrees and I feel it is a higher authority on Islam than you are.

 

And fight them until there is no fitnah and [until] the religion, all of it, is for Allah . And if they cease - then indeed, Allah is Seeing of what they do.

https://quran.com/8/39

 

 

[Argus]

14 hours ago, carepov said:

If Muslims all believed the same thing they would not be fighting each other...

Because Christians never fought each other in the past? 

The difference in interpretation of Muslim law between Shiites and Suuni's is minuscule. Do you see Iranians being any more friendly towards Jews, gays, infidels or women than the Suuni world? I don't.

[DogOnPorch]

7 minutes ago, Argus said:

Because Christians never fought each other in the past? 

The difference in interpretation of Muslim law between Shiites and Suuni's is minuscule. Do you see Iranians being any more friendly towards Jews, gays, infidels or women than the Suuni world? I don't.

Well, you have to remember...in a lefties' world, Alexander the Great was illegally stealing future Muslim lands.

[drummindiver]

1 hour ago, dialamah said:

 

And just because someone in Egypt or Syria thinks that Sharia law should be the law of the land in their country It does not follow that they also want to impose Sharia in other countries.  

 

 

 

 

 

I don't know where the clone  comment is coming from. Muslims have the same core beliefs based on the Qu'ran. Yes or no?

If you don't think sharia is meant to be spread wherever Islam is you haven't read the facts or are denying them.

Edited December 27, 2016 by drummindiver

[dialamah]

22 minutes ago, drummindiver said:

I don't know where the clone  comment is coming from. Muslims have the same core beliefs based on the Qu'ran. Yes or no?

If by 'core beliefs' you mean they believe Allah is God, the Quran is the revealed word of Allah, and Mohammed is his prophet, then yes.  Beyond that, I think there's a lot of variance.   Similarly to the way in which Christians believe that the God of the Bible is the one true God, that the Bible is inspired of God and that Jesus is the son of God (although I'm not certain that last is universally believed) and the rest is interpreted in various ways depending on which particular Christian sect you follow.

If by core beliefs you mean they all believe that adulterers should be stoned or lashed, that all women must dress in hijab, that killing infidels is required etc., then no - they do not all share core beliefs.

Quote

If you don't think sharia is meant to be spread wherever Islam is you haven't read the facts or are denying them.

I don't want to misunderstand you, so I ask - when you say this, is it because you think Muslims want to impose Sharia as the law of the land, wherever they live?  Or do you mean they wish to practice Sharia law within their own countries/communities?    

 

Edited December 27, 2016 by dialamah

[kimmy]

21 minutes ago, drummindiver said:

I don't know where the clone  comment is coming from. Muslims have the same core beliefs based on the Qu'ran. Yes or no?

If you don't think sharia is meant to be spread wherever Islam is you haven't read the facts or are denying them.

Christians believe in the Bible and are supposed to spread The Good News, but we see a vast difference among them in how they interpret the Bible and how they share their religious testimony. Why would people assume that there isn't similar variation among Muslims?

I have, in the past, worked with numerous Muslims who never spoke a word about their religious views, aside from the time our employer bought Ham and Pineapple Pizza and Hotdogs for "employee appreciation day."

 -k

[drummindiver]

2 minutes ago, kimmy said:

Christians believe in the Bible and are supposed to spread The Good News, but we see a vast difference among them in how they interpret the Bible and how they share their religious testimony. Why would people assume that there isn't similar variation among Muslims?

There are variances in all religions,  but there has to be core beliefs based on a set of tenets. It's up to everyone how to interpret those tenets. I dont imagine too many Christians are thrilled how Fred Phelps' family inerprets the word.

[kimmy]

Just now, drummindiver said:

There are variances in all religions,  but there has to be core beliefs based on a set of tenets. It's up to everyone how to interpret those tenets. I dont imagine too many Christians are thrilled how Fred Phelps' family inerprets the word.

Of course not.  And I'd also think that most North American Muslims aren't impressed by how some of the dumb-ass Saudi imams talk, either.

People are completely willing to accept that even though Christians believe the same basic tenets, they have a wide range of social and political views.  And yet many seem incapable of accepting that Muslims might also have a wide range of social and political views.

 -k