Moonlight Graham Posted October 4, 2016 Report Share Posted October 4, 2016 (edited) I did not dispute that right wingers value tradition. The issue with the definition is its entire focus is on hierarchies while ignoring the fact that right wingers strongly believe in equality and individual rights. You're right about that. The definitions are incomplete, at least looking at right vs left in Western liberal democracies. Maybe the descriptions are supposed to be broad to encompass non-liberal democracies, like monarchies etc, I have no idea. Here's where I got them: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-wing_politics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-wing_politics Edited October 4, 2016 by Moonlight Graham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Squid Posted October 4, 2016 Report Share Posted October 4, 2016 The tradition wasn't destroyed. People still get married all the time in traditional ceremonies performed by churches all over the country. It's asinine to postulate that because gays can marry, therefore traditional marriage has been destroyed. Please explain how you make this giant leap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted October 4, 2016 Report Share Posted October 4, 2016 You're right about that. The definitions are incomplete, at least looking at right vs left in Western liberal democracies.I think it reasonable to say that everyone has roughly the same ideals but these ideals often come into conflict and the difference between the left and the right is on how these conflicts are resolved. For example, both left wing and right wing could agree that gays should be equal but for right wingers that conflicted with a desire to maintain tradition. Conservatives resolve the conflict with 'civil unions'. Left wingers place little value on tradition so they see no need for 'civil unions'. Every left-right conflict can be reduced to differences in the prioritization of ideals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimmy Posted October 5, 2016 Report Share Posted October 5, 2016 I did not dispute that right wingers value tradition. The issue with the definition is its entire focus is on hierarchies while ignoring the fact that right wingers strongly believe in equality and individual rights. And this tremendous belief in individual rights is why so many conservatives continue to support criminalization of sodomy and pornography? The left wing agenda on gays had little to do with equality. They wanted to tear down the traditions of society which viewed marriage as a compact between a man and a woman. This reminds me of the Focus On The Family, American Family Association type rhetoric that "they don't care about gay rights, they're just using it as a way to attack the church!" I'd suggest that first off the idea that the real motive is actually just to persecute people like you might be sign of a psychological complex of some sort, and secondly that usually attacking the motive of the messenger is usually a retreat for people who can't argue with the message itself. -k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted October 5, 2016 Report Share Posted October 5, 2016 The left wing agenda on gays had little to do with equality. They wanted to tear down the traditions of society which viewed marriage as a compact between a man and a woman. If it was simply a question of equality then civil unions which were legally the same as marriage would have been an acceptable outcome. One of the problems with politics is people often hijack words to disguise other motives. Well I personally don't care about tearing down traditions. I just think its absolutely none of my business if other consenting adults want to fill out some government forms that give them basic legal relationship rights.... inheritance, the right to visit a person thats sick in the hospital, the right to share property, etc. That's all marriage is legally. Its a government form that gets filled out when two people want to engage in a legal agreement. I don't care about the ceremonial part that happens in church. Churches are private clubs and if they don't want to put on ceremonies for gay people that's their choice. But its not about "tearing down traditions", I just simply don't care. And its flat out none of my business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dre Posted October 5, 2016 Report Share Posted October 5, 2016 I think it reasonable to say that everyone has roughly the same ideals but these ideals often come into conflict and the difference between the left and the right is on how these conflicts are resolved. For example, both left wing and right wing could agree that gays should be equal but for right wingers that conflicted with a desire to maintain tradition. Conservatives resolve the conflict with 'civil unions'. Left wingers place little value on tradition so they see no need for 'civil unions'. Every left-right conflict can be reduced to differences in the prioritization of ideals. Only some conservatives support civil unions. And a few short years ago almost none of them did. This is why its so useless to divide people with diverse opinions into a simplistic false dichotomy. The people lumped into the "conservatives" group are actually a whole bunch of individuals with diverse opinions. Some of them are uncompromising evangelicals, some of them are classic liberals, some of them are fiscal conservatives, some of them are pragmatists, some of them center their views around foreign policy. But there is a faction within the group defined as conservative that has a taliban like mentality. They hate gay people... they think gay people are insulting god. And this group, even though its a minority of "conservatives" has been getting louder and louder and has been getting more representation in government. Sometimes I think we are obsessed with left and right just because we have two arms and two hands. Maybe our political system would be better if humans had evolved to have 5 or 6 arms and hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted October 5, 2016 Report Share Posted October 5, 2016 The left wing agenda on gays had little to do with equality. They wanted to tear down the traditions of society which viewed marriage as a compact between a man and a woman.Good lord. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted October 5, 2016 Report Share Posted October 5, 2016 The people lumped into the "conservatives" group are actually a whole bunch of individuals with diverse opinions.So true. Each individual's political views need at least 2, if not 3, dimensions to represent properly. Any 1 dimensional analysis is going to be lacking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
?Impact Posted October 5, 2016 Report Share Posted October 5, 2016 So true. Each individual's political views need at least 2, if not 3, dimensions to represent properly. Any 1 dimensional analysis is going to be lacking. No, the world is a simple left/right spectrum. There are no complexities, that is all in your imagination. Welcome to the 50's, and black and white television. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoke Posted October 5, 2016 Report Share Posted October 5, 2016 After looking at some of the posts throughout this site last night from those on the left I agree....Liberalism IS a mental disorder! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BubberMiley Posted October 5, 2016 Report Share Posted October 5, 2016 After looking at some of the posts throughout this site last night from those on the left I agree....Liberalism IS a mental disorder!Maybe one day your thoughts will develop to the point where you can provide insight as to why you think the way you do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoke Posted October 6, 2016 Report Share Posted October 6, 2016 Maybe one day your thoughts will develop to the point where you can provide insight as to why you think the way you do. Over 60 years of experience living among them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxme Posted October 6, 2016 Report Share Posted October 6, 2016 Based from the convoluted rationale given by a lot of liberals, I tend to think that there is some truth to what some psychologists/psychiatrists claim. Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2008/11/56494/#mFuB7mdTB0yi3Fd7.99 This video of Maher, Harris and Affleck.....the first few minutes point to the "failure" of liberals. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vln9D81eO60 The most bigoted and intolerant people are liberals. They are not well known for being able to use common sense and logic. Rather emotionalism and foolishness and their love for being politically correct rules their lives. They love using the words racist and bigot against anyone who does not agree with them. They truly belong to the lost tribe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxme Posted October 6, 2016 Report Share Posted October 6, 2016 Leftwingers wanted gay couples to have equal rights as straight people, which also meant gay marriage. People who were against gay marriage don't care about traditional definitions, they just think gay love is unnatural and immoral therefore don't want these "weirdos" to be married and turn their society into weirdo-ville. Giving only "civil unions" to gay couples is like telling black people they can go on the same buses as white people but they have to sit at the back. To say the leftwing agenda was not about equal rights but some scheme to destroy traditions is ridiculous. The leftwing agenda is to get rid of the traditional family and it's values all together. Those people appear to have a dislike for people who are quite happy living the straight life and are pro-family. It does not go with their communist ideology of how the world should turn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
?Impact Posted October 6, 2016 Report Share Posted October 6, 2016 The most bigoted and intolerant people are liberals. They are not well known for being able to use common sense and logic. Rather emotionalism and foolishness and their love for being politically correct rules their lives. They love using the words racist and bigot against anyone who does not agree with them. They truly belong to the lost tribe. Lack of common sense and logic in that emotional, foolish statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted October 6, 2016 Report Share Posted October 6, 2016 The leftwing agenda is to get rid of the traditional family and it's values all together. Those people appear to have a dislike for people who are quite happy living the straight life and are pro-family. It does not go with their communist ideology of how the world should turn. That's ridiculous. The left just wants to add more people into what would be known as a "family". Like a gay couple having kids. I never met a gay couple that resented straight people. Some on the right want to control who is able to love, who is able to get married, who is able to have kids and raise a family etc. because they think it's "weird" or "unnatural". Denying certain people rights because they're different and makes us feel initially uncomfortable because it challenges the ways we're used to has historically caused a lot more harm than good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topaz Posted October 9, 2016 Report Share Posted October 9, 2016 The truth of the matter is ALL political parties causes mental problems for their supporters! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.