The fentanyl epidemic - what to do?

[poochy]

I'm pretty sure the evolution of more dangerously potent drugs is the result of decades of trying to prohibit far far safer drugs like pot. That of course is the fault of conservatism.

We have to do something about getting conservatism off the street.

O get over yourself for one day, please tell us, who among us who wanted pot couldn't get it? You really don't have a clue how stupid that is do you?

[SpankyMcFarland]

I can't think of Donald Rumsfeld in quite the same way after watching this (at 2.30 and after):

http://www.12step.com/videos/drug-addiction-videos/rumsfeld-talks-about-sons-drug-addiction

On another interview he did, he actually had to stop and gather himself.

Edited September 19, 2016 by SpankyMcFarland

[eyeball]

O get over yourself for one day, please tell us, who among us who wanted pot couldn't get it? You really don't have a clue how stupid that is do you?

It was the evolution of selling drugs not buying them that evolved. A nuance I'm quite certain escapes you.

[bush_cheney2004]

Oh, is this another please-feel-sorry-for-the-dopers-and-addicts thread ?

[eyeball]

Is that what you think it is? I think its another look-at-the-consequences-of-applying-really-stupid-conservative-prescriptions thread.

Conservative values and notions act much like anti-bacterials do on bacteria where some bacteria survive and evolve to resist and become even worse - conservatives are mostly making the things they hate worse. In this case drugs and criminals are only getting stronger.

Don't get me wrong its not like all conservative impulses are wrong-headed. Take mine as they relate to our planet's ecosystems for example. I've never understood what it is about conserving natural capital that most other conservatives don't get.

[Bryan]

Conservative values and notions act much like anti-bacterials do on bacteria where some bacteria survive and evolve to resist and become even worse

True -- in both cases, the places where those policies fail is that they are not tough enough. Half-assed measures are what allow things to get worse.

[eyeball]

There it is.

[eyeball]

True -- in both cases, the places where those policies fail is that they are not tough enough. Half-assed measures are what allow things to get worse.

Well, in the case of fentanyl and China I'd say the transfer of that finest of conservative values, filthy lucre, acted more like a carcinogen.

Way to go guys, if there was ever a country that excels at out capitalizing capitalists its China.

[SpankyMcFarland]

True -- in both cases, the places where those policies fail is that they are not tough enough. Half-assed measures are what allow things to get worse.

So what would you suggest?

[Bryan]

So what would you suggest?

Executions for dealing drugs, especially for anyone who sells something like fentanyl to kids.

[BC_chick]

Executions for dealing drugs, especially for anyone who sells something like fentanyl to kids.

If we had capital punishment in this country, I would agree, but since don't, I say life in prison, no possibility of parole. Treat it like we do murder.

The Crown is seeking 18 years for a dealer that was arrested in BC and I'd love to see it set precedent.

[cybercoma]

Executions for dealing drugs, especially for anyone who sells something like fentanyl to kids.

Taking public policy out of Rodrigo Duerte's book, eh? Maybe we should skip the trials and just encourage gun-toting alt-right lunatics to murder people suspected​ of using drugs right there in the streets.

[SpankyMcFarland]

If we had capital punishment in this country, I would agree, but since don't, I say life in prison, no possibility of parole. Treat it like we do murder.

The Crown is seeking 18 years for a dealer that was arrested in BC and I'd love to see it set precedent.

How low down the food chain would you go? Prosecuting minor dealers binds them more closely to the gang. They can't get normal work.

The big fish rarely see prison.

[BC_chick]

How low down the food chain would you go? Prosecuting minor dealers binds them more closely to the gang. They can't get normal work.

The big fish rarely see prison.

This guy had $2 millions worth and has been in jail in the past for trafficking. He also sold the tainted cocaine that resulted in 20 overdoses in 20 minutes.

He's a great candidate.

[dialamah]

This guy had $2 millions worth and has been in jail in the past for trafficking. He also sold the tainted cocaine that resulted in 20 overdoses in 20 minutes.

He's a great candidate.

Yeah, since we can't organize effective rehab in our society, jail for a very long time seems like the next best option.

[SpankyMcFarland]

This guy had $2 millions worth and has been in jail in the past for trafficking. He also sold the tainted cocaine that resulted in 20 overdoses in 20 minutes.

He's a great candidate.

What about 1,000 worth or 100 worth?

Edited September 20, 2016 by SpankyMcFarland

[TimG]

notions act much like anti-bacterials do on bacteria where some bacteria survive and evolve to resist and become even worse

And liberal solutions outlaw anti-biotics and call people who want to use anti-biotics to save lives racist...

[eyeball]

Executions for dealing drugs, especially for anyone who sells something like fentanyl to kids.

I'd suspend trade with China and arrest their ambassador.

[SpankyMcFarland]

I'd suspend trade with China and arrest their ambassador.

Indeed. If we are going to be drastic with the minor distributors here, why turn a blind eye to the factory owners who are churning it out?

[BC_chick]

What about 1,000 worth or 100 worth?

Doesn't make a difference. If they're trafficking (not possessing) I think they should face tough sentences.

I'd actually prefer to see drugs legalized and regulated where people are free to alter their minds without dying but since there is very little chance of that happening I think dealing with fentanyl harshly (which is now in all other drugs) is the way to go.

[BC_chick]

Below, I've linked an article about MDMA (ecstasy). I've quoted the most relevant passage but the article does venture into the area of prohibition and how counter-productive it is.

Young people are overdosing these days because they are taking an otherwise safe drug which is mixed with other drugs. If we are not going to legalize the safe drugs then I think it should stand that we go after those who alter those drugs into something lethal.

I'm so glad I grew up at the dawn of the rave era where I didn't need to worry about this stuff.

3. Is MDMA really a dangerous drug?

While all drug use, recreational or otherwise, can cause harm, pure MDMA is one of the least dangerous drugs known. Indeed, it is much less dangerous than drugs like alcohol, tobacco or cannabis. MDMA is rarely habit-forming. The vast majority of people only take MDMA in the context of dancing or partying. MDMA fatalities do occur but are extremely rare in comparison with the hundreds of thousands of doses taken every year in Australia. Professor David Nutt, a distinguished expert, was sacked from an official UK position for estimating in 2009 that the risk of death was greater from horse riding than from taking ecstasy.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/dec/08/is-ecstasy-really-that-dangerous-all-your-questions-answered

Edited September 20, 2016 by BC_chick

[SpankyMcFarland]

All drugs are dangerous. With recreational drugs there is a spectrum of risk, something like this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_harmfulness#/media/File:Drug_danger_and_dependence.png

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_harmfulness#/media/File:Development_of_a_rational_scale_to_assess_the_harm_of_drugs_of_potential_misuse_(physical_harm_and_dependence,_NA_free_means).svg

Edited September 20, 2016 by SpankyMcFarland

[TimG]

Below, I've linked an article about MDMA (ecstasy). I've quoted the most relevant passage but the article does venture into the area of prohibition and how counter-productive it is.

Now you have gone down the rabbit hole, Alice. It is one thing to to argue that substances like Marijuana which have been around for centuries be classed as 'safe' for sale without a prescription. It is another thing to declare that any chemical concoction someone can dream up should be declared safe for sale. You are basically talking about tossing out the entire system for approving drugs for sale by pharmaceutical companies. I understand where you are coming from but you need to think these things through.

[BC_chick]

Spanky, have a look at the charts in your own graph. If this is really about 'some people become addicted'... why are drugs like nicotine, alcohol and caffeine legal?

Does it make sense to ban alcohol for everyone just because some people become alcoholics? From what the graph on the right shows, it's second to only heroin in lethal levels.

Edited September 20, 2016 by BC_chick

[BC_chick]

Now you have gone down the rabbit hole, Alice. It is one thing to to argue that substances like Marijuana which have been around for centuries be classed as 'safe' for sale without a prescription. It is another thing to declare that any chemical concoction someone can dream up should be declared safe for sale. You are basically talking about tossing out the entire system for approving drugs for sale by pharmaceutical companies. I understand where you are coming from but you need to think these things through.

I very much stand by what I say. I think it's sheer idiocy to allow alcohol and nicotine to be legal but ban a substance like MDMA.