DogOnPorch Posted September 14, 2016 Report Share Posted September 14, 2016 How does anyone know who among the Muslims present want to murder all Jews? Just because some crazy guy says something does not mean everyone within ear shot is going to support him and agree with him. They worship at al-Qaradawi's mosque. Do you have ANY clue who he is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted September 14, 2016 Report Share Posted September 14, 2016 So he's just stupid, is what you're saying. JT is stupider than a bag of hammers and so is his entire government. How were they to know those Muslims want to murder all the Jews?The problem here is that you lie about Muslims and their beliefs, as I've already shown. You'll argue that all Muslims want to kill Jews. I shouldn't have to tell you how stupid and wrong that is but you clearly don't care. http://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-america/muslim-jewish-communities-michigan-host-day-service-christmas-n481236 I know. Those people aren't REAL Muslims because to you the only REAL interpretation of Islam is held by ISIS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted September 14, 2016 Report Share Posted September 14, 2016 I do...so why didn't the PM's advisors? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted September 14, 2016 Report Share Posted September 14, 2016 I know. Those people aren't REAL Muslims because to you the only REAL interpretation of Islam is held by ISIS. Then wouldn't it have been more productive had JT gone to a Mosque with more progressive views? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted September 14, 2016 Report Share Posted September 14, 2016 The problem here is that you lie about Muslims and their beliefs, as I've already shown. You'll argue that all Muslims want to kill Jews. I shouldn't have to tell you how stupid and wrong that is but you clearly don't care. http://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-america/muslim-jewish-communities-michigan-host-day-service-christmas-n481236 I know. Those people aren't REAL Muslims because to you the only REAL interpretation of Islam is held by ISIS. So those attending a Nazi Rally aren't Nazis? This is the rhetoric of said mosque you defend... Throughout history, Allah has imposed upon the Jews people who would punish them for their corruption ... The last punishment was carried out by Hitler. By means of all the things he did to them – even though they exaggerated this issue – he managed to put them in their place. This was divine punishment for them.... Allah Willing, the next time will be at the hand of the believers. ---Imam al-Qaradawi Then wouldn't it have been more productive had JT gone to a Mosque with more progressive views? Which one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msj Posted September 14, 2016 Report Share Posted September 14, 2016 Here is basic human psychology. If all their scholars say that the genders must be segregated at all times, and nobody is pointing out how stupid this is, but instead, demonstrating that we approve of it, then how is it ever going to change? Did segregation in the US end simply because everyone was being non-judgmental and smiling benignly towards segregationists? I don't think so. As far as tactics go, no, I do not think it is a good idea to charge into Mosques and tell Muslims they are being stupid and we are going to show them the way by forcing them to desegregate. Someday, as more people realize the stupidity of religious freedom - something I have raised in threads elsewhere in this forum- there will be a change. My preference is to build bridges, open dialogue, show them how we do it in Canada by having women stand with the PM during the visit for all to see how we do things differently. Let the change come by a slow death on the vine rather than through a quick razing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted September 14, 2016 Report Share Posted September 14, 2016 When I ask for a cite I expect a certain quality to it. Yours was lacking, to say the least. Mainstream newspapers quoting polls and surveys aren't up to your standard, are they? Let me guess, it has to be from Al Jazeera, RT or Worldnews daily in order to count with you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted September 14, 2016 Report Share Posted September 14, 2016 As far as tactics go, no, I do not think it is a good idea to charge into Mosques and tell Muslims they are being stupid and we are going to show them the way by forcing them to desegregate. Someday, as more people realize the stupidity of religious freedom - something I have raised in threads elsewhere in this forum- there will be a change. My preference is to build bridges, open dialogue, show them how we do it in Canada by having women stand with the PM during the visit for all to see how we do things differently. Let the change come by a slow death on the vine rather than through a quick razing. There we are: who are we to change Islam's antisemitism? Let it ride... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted September 14, 2016 Report Share Posted September 14, 2016 What a strange question. Of course I disagree with segregation of all kinds. However, I also realize that religious freedom allows for certain things as disgusting as they are. So segregating Blacks and Whites is okay if that's what your religion says? Not just in church but in life? You're fine with that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msj Posted September 14, 2016 Report Share Posted September 14, 2016 (edited) This type of hyperbole is a straw man. Though some could say the views of said Mosque's leaders could violate hate speech laws, no one is saying they don't have the right to segregate men and women. Then you are not reading what others are saying in this very thread. What I'm saying is that a PM shouldn't be going around affirming churches that implement those practices. ESPECIALLY when he's trademarked the feminist PM moniker. And I am saying that there is a point being made by a PM who attends a Mosque with women he considers to be his equals (or near equals since he is "Prime" after all). That point may be too subtle for some but it likely was not very subtle among the Muslim women present. Edited September 14, 2016 by msj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msj Posted September 14, 2016 Report Share Posted September 14, 2016 (edited) Mainstream newspapers quoting polls and surveys aren't up to your standard, are they? Let me guess, it has to be from Al Jazeera, RT or Worldnews daily in order to count with you? No, a real study showing real data - not a claim based on someone's memory of what she thought it was like ten years ago. Edited September 14, 2016 by msj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msj Posted September 14, 2016 Report Share Posted September 14, 2016 So segregating Blacks and Whites is okay if that's what your religion says? Not just in church but in life? You're fine with that? No I have clearly stated I disagree with it. I have also clearly stated that our Constitution has problems to sort out with respect to such matters of religious freedom and bigotry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted September 14, 2016 Report Share Posted September 14, 2016 As far as tactics go, no, I do not think it is a good idea to charge into Mosques and tell Muslims they are being stupid and we are going to show them the way by forcing them to desegregate. How about instead visiting one of the mosques which doesn't segregate genders and speaking with approval to them, reaffirming that they are more in the Canadian spirit? Let the change come by a slow death on the vine rather than through a quick razing. How slow? A hundred years? A thousand years? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msj Posted September 14, 2016 Report Share Posted September 14, 2016 There we are: who are we to change Islam's antisemitism? Let it ride... I suppose if I go to the Mosque and yell: "your ideas are deplorable, your ideas are deplorable" then they will come around to my point of view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted September 14, 2016 Report Share Posted September 14, 2016 (edited) No, a real study showing real data - not a claim based on someone's memory of what she thought it was like ten years ago. Neither of the cites spoke of memory. Both mentioned surveys. You are simply in denial, holding your hands over your ears and making loud mouth noises. Edited September 14, 2016 by Argus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msj Posted September 14, 2016 Report Share Posted September 14, 2016 How about instead visiting one of the mosques which doesn't segregate genders and speaking with approval to them, reaffirming that they are more in the Canadian spirit? At this point I think I would like to see a complete video and read a complete transcript of what transpired before going further. There is too much opinion and too little fact (from all of us). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted September 14, 2016 Report Share Posted September 14, 2016 No I have clearly stated I disagree with it. But you would never oppose it, never demand the government speak out about it or condemn it in even the mildest language. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted September 14, 2016 Report Share Posted September 14, 2016 I said: nobody voted for JT here at MLW...now. That means you too. I did. So did you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted September 14, 2016 Report Share Posted September 14, 2016 At this point I think I would like to see a complete video and read a complete transcript of what transpired before going further. There is too much opinion and too little fact (from all of us). No there actually isn't. The opinion is coming from you and the other progressives defending Trudeau. The facts are coming from the other side. You have NO facts. Here are two. First, there are mosques where women are segregated from men, boys from girls. There are mosques where this is not done. Second, Trudeau chose the first kind of mosque, praised them rather than condemning, and ignored the second kind of mosque. These are the main facts in this discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted September 14, 2016 Report Share Posted September 14, 2016 I suppose if I go to the Mosque and yell: "your ideas are deplorable, your ideas are deplorable" then they will come around to my point of view. Excuses. Either you're against what this mosque stands for (antisemitism, misogyny, Islamic supremacy to name a few) or you aren't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msj Posted September 14, 2016 Report Share Posted September 14, 2016 Neither of the cites spoke of memory. Both mentioned surveys. You are simply in denial, holding your hands over your ears and making loud mouth noises. She speaks of a recent survey (I am guessing - there is no "" marks around that part so who really knows where the numbers come from). A survey not linked to in the cite but we are expected to take either her word for it or the reporters word for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted September 14, 2016 Report Share Posted September 14, 2016 I did. So did you. I voted Indie. But at least one person now admits to voting for this POS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msj Posted September 14, 2016 Report Share Posted September 14, 2016 But you would never oppose it, never demand the government speak out about it or condemn it in even the mildest language. I do oppose it. Trudeau can do what he says was his purpose: to speak to Canadians wherever they are. Even Muslims know Trudeau supports women and LGBT etc etc. Sometimes in life, especially in politics, you cannot always go in with guns blazing.... Sometimes you can make a point in a subtler manner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Squid Posted September 14, 2016 Report Share Posted September 14, 2016 Rev. Anthony Aikins said Trudeau and his family popped in to attend service at Mary Queen of the World Church in Joe Batt's Arm on Sunday. http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/trudeau-nl-church-fogo-1.3510985 The Catholic church doesn't allow women to be priests or any church leadership position. Clearly a mysoginistic viewpoint. The churches hid pedophile priests to avoid prosecution. Clearly, this church supports women being 2nd class citizens and is pro-pedophile. Where were all you people when he attended services there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msj Posted September 14, 2016 Report Share Posted September 14, 2016 (edited) Excuses. Either you're against what this mosque stands for (antisemitism, misogyny, Islamic supremacy to name a few) or you aren't. Well, I am against those ideas. So what now? Do I need to go there and try and burn it to the ground? Edited September 14, 2016 by msj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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