Should Canada screen potential immigrants/refugees for Canadian Values

[-1=e^ipi]

A society is supposed to have laws to protect the vulnerable.

Sounds like some of the justification used in Saudi Arabia to ban alcohol or ban homosexuality. Russia uses it to ban gay propaganda. SJWs are trying to use it to ban video games and censor the internet.

Most people that engage in prostitution and marijuana are doing it as consenting adults and not as 'vulnerable' people.

I don't profess Islam.

Never said you did. It's all nonsense fairy tales to me.

I was born and raised in Canada. I trace my roots back to New France long before Canada even existed as a country.

Don't care where you were born or where your ancestors came from. If you are an authoritarian that hates freedom it would be preferable if you left and went somewhere else.

But you're free to emigrate to the Netherlands if you want. I'm sure Amsterdam would be your cup of tea where sex trafficking makes up around 5% of the GDP.

I don't do drugs and I'm asexual. But despite that I can still support freedom and people's right to choose to do things in their own free time as consenting adults that doesn't harm anyone else.

[?Impact]

I do? Your desperate support of Islam on this web site certainly indicates a complete disregard for the well-known belief system which comes with Islam. Clearly you don't care about their beliefs.

Again you are making up things. I don't support Islam, I never have. I think all religions are terrible, I have stated that many, many times before. I do however accept freedom of religion.

[WestCoastRunner]

My point is, a person that has been conditionned for years and often from its youth, cannot change direction by snaping fingers. Even if the hijab represents something terrible to us because we know where and how it started, those "victims" do not understand the big picture and they need our help to figure it out. That is why I do not consider someone wearing a hijab as an enimy of the state. Even if I am not negociable regarding the rules forcing them to retire it in some specific functions or circumstances.

Mighty nice of you to offer your help.

[DogOnPorch]

Again you are making up things. I don't support Islam, I never have. I think all religions are terrible, I have stated that many, many times before. I do however accept freedom of religion.

What if the religion demanded the death of one's first born son? Or, say, one's daughter as a matter of honour?

At what point does one say to the religious: No effing way.

When they become a majority? A little late then...

We already have de facto segregation of sexes in Canada thanks to religion. Approved by our PM. So that line has already been crossed.

Edited October 5, 2016 by DogOnPorch

[?Impact]

What if the religion demanded ...

The rule of law is still supreme.

[DogOnPorch]

The rule of law is still supreme.

Sharia is a type of Law. God's Law trumps Infidel Law.

[Benz]

Yea you should be very afraid of those women wearing hijabs.

No Watson, from the people who indoctrinated them. You can measure how much the person is indoctrinated when she can't remove her hijab when required.

This summer in a municipal park, I saw a family with 4 kids. The older kid and the youngest were girls, the two in the middle were boys. The youngest girl, around 8 years old, was playing with the others kids but, her hijab was constantly falling off. She kept going to see her mother to put it back on. The oldest, around 12 years old, knew the trick. She was not playing like the others. She was hanging around with the kids but, she was the only one not really playing and being very careful. I have a problem with that. Let the kids being kids before they get so indoctrinated. What kind of message are we sending to those kids? At least, ostentatious religious symbols should be banned from schools for kids under 18. Parents are forcing them to wear those things all the time, there are not much we can do but, we can at least offer them an educational environment free of indoctrination.. It's the least we can do. If we do nothing, we are then accomplices.

[dialamah]

You might be right about the twelve-year-old not playing because she didn't want to mess up her hijab. Alternatively, she might also be a preteen or young teen, stuck between two generations, neither of which interested her. Adolescent girls are the same worldwide, I'm guessing, so consider that you saw normal adolescent behavior as oppression just because she was wearing a hijab.

[Goddess]

No Watson, from the people who indoctrinated them. You can measure how much the person is indoctrinated when she can't remove her hijab when required.

This summer in a municipal park, I saw a family with 4 kids. The older kid and the youngest were girls, the two in the middle were boys. The youngest girl, around 8 years old, was playing with the others kids but, her hijab was constantly falling off. She kept going to see her mother to put it back on. The oldest, around 12 years old, knew the trick. She was not playing like the others. She was hanging around with the kids but, she was the only one not really playing and being very careful. I have a problem with that. Let the kids being kids before they get so indoctrinated. What kind of message are we sending to those kids? At least, ostentatious religious symbols should be banned from schools for kids under 18. Parents are forcing them to wear those things all the time, there are not much we can do but, we can at least offer them an educational environment free of indoctrination.. It's the least we can do. If we do nothing, we are then accomplices.

I lived for 8 years in a predominently Muslim area. I rarely saw the women outside. In the heat of summer, the little boys would be running around outside all day playing in t-shirts and shorts and flip flops. The little girls, (5-8 years old) would be dressed in tightly wrapped headscarves, blue jeans, running shoes and long sleeve shirts. I noticed that they would only be outside playing for short bursts at a time, because it was too hot to be dressed like that.

I'm of the same mindset as you - let the children be children! And I have an issue with any religion that basically "slut-shames" 5 and 6 year old girls simply for being girls.

In the same area, I had a freind who told me about a Muslim man who recently joined his warehouse crew. As they introduced him around, he was fine. But when they introduced him to his female boss, he refused to shake her hand, look at her or talk to her. My friend's concern (and his female boss's concern) was that if there was an emergency in the warehouse, would this Muslim man be of any help to his female co-workers? Likely not. Huge safety issue.

If we do nothing, we are then accomplices.

I don't know how you can educate these men to accept women/girls as actual human beings, but I agree with your statement above.

[Benz]

You might be right about the twelve-year-old not playing because she didn't want to mess up her hijab. Alternatively, she might also be a preteen or young teen, stuck between two generations, neither of which interested her. Adolescent girls are the same worldwide, I'm guessing, so consider that you saw normal adolescent behavior as oppression just because she was wearing a hijab.

It is a possibility, but very unlikely. She is not allowed to not wear it and her younger sister had to wear it despite the hijab was not appropriate according to the games she was playing.

She was not sitting on a bench playing with a cellphone. She was with the other kids and she had interests to be with them. I think that in her perspective, she was playing. She was doing the same things that the others were doing, except the movements that could possibly make her lose her hijab. I am pretty confident on my assumption.

Can you seriously think it is appropriate for a kid to play in a park with such thing on its head?

That's why I say, the minimum we can do is to provide those kids an environment free of any sort of indoctrination when they are at school. They need to understand that the religion is not that powerful, it is something personal and the secularism is important in our society.

Do not under estimate the consequences of the development of a young girl that is force to wear that thing all her childhood in all circumstances. Alot of women wearing that are so bashful (I am not sure if it's the good translation of the french word: PUDIQUE), that they cannot even let someone see their topknot. Imagine how bad they feel, how stuck up they can be. It is precisely what the islamists want. They want women to feel very bad with their body. They want the women to feel weak, inferiors.

The moderate (or should I say the normal) muslims are not like that. They condemn such thing. We must stop thinking that it is a sign of respect to muslims to close our eyes on that. The muslims themselves are saying it's not right. Those kind of things are very recent in Islam. At the time of Mohamet and in the first few centuries of the religion, the women were not segregated like that.

Edited October 6, 2016 by Benz

[Benz]

I don't know how you can educate these men to accept women/girls as actual human beings, but I agree with your statement above.

I do not know either. If there was a way, I would share it with every one. The attitude is very low level, it's a basic stubborness. It's like when a child is testing you. I have a 6 years old son. Once in a while, he is testing me. He does something wrong and he knows it. If I explain him why he must not do that, he will act like if he does not understand. Once I punish him, out of sudden, he understand very well and can elaborate on it with justification.

Childish attitude among adults is something very common. Only a firm application of the rules can make them understand... or at least respect the rules. That's why I suggest to at least banned such religious ostentatious symbols in schools.

[Argus]

So we're going to keep those damn foreigners out but legalize dope and prostitution and gambling and abortion at will, etc.

Heck, I share more in common with Muslims than with my fellow Canadians if that's the case.

Do you believe women must cover their hair in order to avoid causing lust in men? Do you believe gays should be executed? Do you think anyone who insults God should be executed? There are a whole host of medieval laws associated with Islam, including stoning for adultery and cutting off people's hands which have no place in the twenty first century.

[Argus]

The rule of law is still supreme.

Laws change as the moral and cultural beliefs of the people change.

Edited October 6, 2016 by Argus

[dialamah]

It is a possibility, but very unlikely. She is not allowed to not wear it and her younger sister had to wear it despite the hijab was not appropriate according to the games she was playing.

As I mentioned, not saying you are wrong, only that there may be other, equally valid interpretations of what you saw.

Can you seriously think it is appropriate for a kid to play in a park with such thing on its head?

Generally I don't care for religion, period, and feel that religious parents impose religion on their kids.

Having said that, I've seen kids in outfits that are not related to religion, fall of them when they are playing. I've also seen little girls be extra careful not to lose a cardboard crown perched on their head, or avoid making their pretty dress dirty. I don't like these gender-based outfits that restrict girls' behavior either, but at the end of the day its not my business.

That's why I say, the minimum we can do is to provide those kids an environment free of any sort of indoctrination when they are at school. They need to understand that the religion is not that powerful, it is something personal and the secularism is important in our society.

Absolutely agree with all of that. unfortunately, if it involves forc8ng kids to remove certain articles of clothing or decoration against their parents' wishes that becomes tricky. I don't disagree with divesting schools of religious symbolism and practice, but at the same time I don't see how you can effectively force parents to dress their kids in a way they consider immoral. They would just put their kids in private school where the religious indocrtination would be even more intense, or homeschool them. Either option reduces these kids exposure to a more secular environment.

The muslims themselves are saying it's not right. Those kind of things are very recent in Islam. At the time of Mohamet and in the first few centuries of the religion, the women were not segregated like that.

I agree, its a perversion of the teachings of Islam.

What also really bugs me are private schools that require girls to wear those pleated skirts. I think if parents understood how heavily those skirts are featured in certain circles, they'd outlaw them.

Edited October 6, 2016 by dialamah