Unexpected Consequence of Higher Minimum Wage

[eyeball]

I figure it should similar to the the value of volunteer labour to our economy. Somewhere around $20.00 last time I looked.

It seems unconscionable that so much moral emphasis should be placed on carrying one's economic weight in society when the economy relies so much on free labour.

[eyeball]

Canada is about to get their own example/case study in social engineering.

It's wrong to think of this as social engineering when it's clearly economic engineering that's occurring.

[TimG]

Extra wealth to those in the top brackets, like upper bracket tax cuts, is rarely returned to the local economy.

You are assuming that the extra money for wages is coming out of the "rich" instead of the middle who pay more for services or small business owners who see their incomes drop accordingly.

In the Seattle example, roughly 100,000 workers now earn a living wage

Well the data says their take home pay went up about $600/year once you take into account the jobs and hours lost. A $600 increase for a small minority of workers will have no measurable effect on the economy. Anecdotes about the imaginary "full time" worker don't mean much since many minimum wage jobs are part time.

no price increases have been noted at grocery chains. The wage increase impacts prices by 1% per year on average

The Seattle experience is localized so businesses are forced to compete with stores in areas without the same wage levels. If the area was expanded the effect of this competition would disappear and prices would rise a lot faster.

we are just publicly subsidizing corporate profits.

This is a nonsense argument. Social programs are funded whether people have employment or not and if businesses left the cost to the taxpayer would only rise. Businesses pay taxes because they benefit from the infrastructure that society builds. This infrastructure includes the social safety net.

The federal minimum wage in the US has been a disaster for Puerto Rico and will be a disaster for poorer regions of state like California. Minimum wage boosters are shamelessly selective when it comes to data and absolutely refuse to acknowledge the harms when they do appear. Cherry picking results from wealthy cities convinces no one.

Edited August 25, 2016 by TimG

[overthere]

$15 is the American figure. The minimum here should be $20, given that's the difference in pricing nowadays,

why not $30?

It's wrong to think of this as social engineering when it's clearly economic engineering that's occurring.

No, Notley herself would characterize this as social engineering.

It is intended to change the class structure of Humanity in Alberta.

[cybercoma]

why not $30?

I say $20, since $15 is the American figure. $15 USD is ~$20 CAD.

You say "why not $30?" So I will ask you, WHY $30? I already explained why $20.

[bush_cheney2004]

The "American figure" has no bearing on Canada's minimum wage. Just more cross border sloth.

[Bryan]

The "American figure" has no bearing on Canada's minimum wage. Just more cross border sloth.

It had a huge bearing. Our goods, services, and people cross the border in both directions every day. The two economies are very closely linked.

[bush_cheney2004]

It had a huge bearing. Our goods, services, and people cross the border in both directions every day. The two economies are very closely linked.

Not for minimum wage jobs.....or do Canadians stream across the border to work or buy at a real McDonald's ?

U.S. federal minimum wage is $7.25 USD.

[Bryan]

Not for minimum wage jobs.....or do Canadians stream across the border to work or buy at a real McDonald's ?

Many people travel, work, buy and sell products and services, etc (including fast food meals), across the border all of the time. The minimum wage is an anchor that affects all wages and prices. The prices I can get for my work in the US are a direct reflection of the local economy in the place where my clients are based.

[bush_cheney2004]

Many people travel, work, buy and sell products and services, etc (including fast food meals), across the border all of the time. The minimum wage is an anchor that affects all wages and prices. The prices I can get for my work in the US are a direct reflection of the local economy in the place where my clients are based.

The larger U.S. economy is not paced by wages and services for local, cross border commerce with Canadians. Minimum wage at the federal, state, and local level is determined by separate policies, criteria, and interests.

Most Americans do not live with a constant mindset for the CanAm border and the impact/difference on wages and prices for goods/services.

Edited August 26, 2016 by bush_cheney2004

[cybercoma]

Except when it comes to EpiPens and other medicine.

[-1=e^ipi]

I say $20, since $15 is the American figure. $15 USD is ~$20 CAD.

You say "why not $30?" So I will ask you, WHY $30? I already explained why $20.

Cybercoma hates the poor and doesn't support $30 minimum wages. Sad.

[Bryan]

The larger U.S. economy is not paced by wages and services for local, cross border commerce with Canadians. Minimum wage at the federal, state, and local level is determined by separate policies, criteria, and interests.

Most Americans do not live with a constant mindset for the CanAm border and the impact/difference on wages and prices for goods/services.

There's no shortage of American firms looking to source products and services from Canada.

[bush_cheney2004]

There's no shortage of American firms looking to source products and services from Canada.

Sure...each day even I wake up wondering what I will buy from Canada, the impact of wage laws in Canada, and best border crossing times to get those great Canadian deals. American firms never leave Canada, they just move the jobs back to the United States.

Mexico had a far bigger impact on U.S. wages than Canada. Scrap NAFTA !

Edited August 27, 2016 by bush_cheney2004

[Bryan]

Sure...each day even I wake up wondering what I will buy from Canada, the impact of wage laws in Canada, and best border crossing times to get those great Canadian deals.

You might not, but people who matter absolutely do.

[Hal 9000]

$15 is the American figure. The minimum here should be $20, given that's the difference in pricing nowadays,

What an absolutely idiotic post. Do you have any idea how that would affect people already making 20$ P/H?

[eyeball]

It's funny how concerned working stiffs are about the income spread between them and their peers.

It seems all the more misplaced given the spread between ordinary working stiffs and the 2 - 1 percent.

[cybercoma]

What an absolutely idiotic post. Do you have any idea how that would affect people already making 20$ P/H?

How would it affect them? Will they quit their jobs and go do minimum wage jobs like cleaning toilets or flipping burgers?

Also, what kind of scumbags concern themselves with keeping other people's wages low? How much of a sociopath do you have to be to promote people's suffering? Just wondering.

Edited August 27, 2016 by cybercoma

[bush_cheney2004]

It's funny how concerned working stiffs are about the income spread between them and their peers.

It seems all the more misplaced given the spread between ordinary working stiffs and the 2 - 1 percent.

Must be the shrinking watering hole, right ?

[Hal 9000]

How would it affect them? Will they quit their jobs and go do minimum wage jobs like cleaning toilets or flipping burgers?

Also, what kind of scumbags concern themselves with keeping other people's wages low? How much of a sociopath do you have to be to promote people's suffering? Just wondering.

Well, yeah, they will. Why does someone want to educate themselves, risk their lives or be put into camp situations for 20-25$ per hour when they can be a coffee barista or greeter at walmart for 20$. If minimum wage was 20$, you must know that everyone from nurses, teaches, mechanics, lab techs, Ea's, janitors...whatever would be insisting on more money too. One would be a fool to not know this. Give your head a shake!

[eyeball]

Must be the shrinking watering hole, right ?

No its about pay transparency, worker morale, self-esteem, expectations and hopes, future prospects vs likelihood...there are a lot of things in play. I think there's too much exploitation of the stress these create in the economy which I suspect has something to do with the apparent ease with which the spread between ordinary people and the 2 - 1% is maintained without much effect on people's morale etc.

Then there's the effects of power disparity in our economy and society to ponder as well.

[bush_cheney2004]

....Then there's the effects of power disparity in our economy and society to ponder as well.

Not really.....wage whiners on both sides of the border have no idea how good they have it compared to the rest of the "undeveloped" world. They have largely forgotten how to be "low income" with pride. Mama didn't need no iPhone.

[jacee]

Not really.....wage whiners on both sides of the border have no idea how good they have it compared to the rest of the "undeveloped" world. They have largely forgotten how to be "low income" with pride. Mama didn't need no iPhone.

Wow.

" forgotten how to be "low income" with pride."

Now there's a line predator bosses can use to oppress workers demanding living wages.

Yes, just demand that they accept low wages that won't support their families "with pride".

:/

[Bryan]

Not really.....wage whiners on both sides of the border have no idea how good they have it compared to the rest of the "undeveloped" world. They have largely forgotten how to be "low income" with pride. Mama didn't need no iPhone.

So true. The definition of "poverty" in Canada and the US has crept up so high that it's basically meaningless anymore. Not having a big enough TV does not make you poor.

[eyeball]

So true. The definition of "poverty" in Canada and the US has crept up so high that it's basically meaningless anymore. Not having a big enough TV does not make you poor.

Who said it does? Ah right, now I recall...

'Mr. Limbkins, I beg your pardon, sir! Oliver Twist has asked for more!'

There was a general start. Horror was depicted on every countenance.

'For MORE!' said Mr. Limbkins. 'Compose yourself, Bumble, and answer me distinctly. Do I understand that he asked for more, after he had eaten the supper allotted by the dietary?'

'He did, sir,' replied Bumble.