Is The US Headed For A Big Melt Down?

betsy · July 17, 2016

Don't have kids so, as Andrea Leadsom MP and secretary of whatever she is in the UK would say: I don't have a stake in the future.

Ahhhh.......

.......so, who cares about the future, right?

Another "if-I'm-not-impacted-by-it-who-cares," attitude.

In fact I have worried about these stupid things and then got blindsided by cancer which was rather micro-individual thing and also has helped to put those so called bigger things into perspective (and the little things too for that matter).

Btw, we got no kids too, and we've been impacted by cancer not too long ago.

But we still care about the future of our youth. Depends on one's perspective, I suppose.

Edited July 17, 2016 by betsy

JamesHackerMP · July 17, 2016

Betsy, you stated (sorry I didn't use the quote thingy correctly):

I could also point to the fact that the USA isn't exactly like the very same USA we knew 50 years ago. Obviously.

No. It's not the same USA we knew 50 years ago. And, being homosexual, I must say, thank God for that.

JamesHackerMP · July 17, 2016

And--please understand I mean no offense and don't wish to tread on anyone's beliefs---but did someone seriously just bring up the end of times? I didn't expect that on a Canadian discussion site. That surprised me. (A discussion site based in the American "Bible Belt" perhaps, but a Canadian one? come on guys...)

msj · July 17, 2016

What is specifically wrong with your attitudes?

If you hadn't noticed, the title is posed as a question!

If you hadn't noticed that is my question posed to a specific response to a guy who exalts at the feet of chicken little.

Mmmm, chicken feet -but I digress....

Why is it being asked? Because of the news that we see recently!

Yeah for the recency effect! A little tale about this here: http://www.wikinvest.com/wiki/Recency_bias

And all the factors that COULD come together!

That you would automatically connect that question - which has a LOGICAL basis, btw - to the biblical rapture.......suggests that you've got a tremendous chip on shoulder, that obviously affect your thinking process!

I wouldn't call that, optimism. You're reacting so strongly to a question.

I call that, ignorance! And irrelevant! You're not on the same page!

How is the OP connected in any way with religion, and end of times? Because it's been asked by a religious person?

Anyway........you think end-of-times will manifest only in the USA? That's nuts!

You're irrationally being so....... defensive!

To connect a logical, realistic question to end of times and rapture indicate that you're the one obsessed with it!

That's projected in your attitude towards the title and the OP!

You are projecting here and going for overreach.

The reason I no longer subscribe to doomer and gloomer attitudes like yours is because they get it so wrong.

Let's borrow and paraphrase from this article to see why: http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2016/01/21/why-does-pessimism-sound-so-smart.aspx

So why does pessimism sound so smart?

Let's go to the evolutionary reason: organisms that treat threats as more urgent than opportunities had a better chance to survive and reproduce.

Throw in other reasons: that pessimists think that optimists are ignoring risks (we aren't - we're being more realistic is all).

- pessimism lets people rationalize shortcomings we all have - we do love to look down our noses at others....

-pessimism requires immediate action so there is the pleasure of feeling like we are doing something even if it is not necessary and possibly counterproductive.

- pessimism extrapolates present trends without consideration of how people and markets adapt to make things better.

For me I have read that article many times and looking back over my life realize just how much more wrong my pessimism has been as compared to muddling through any challenges and adapting to whatever the world has thrown at me and at BC/Canada.

It leads to a different kind of action : thoughtful, measured, don't throw the baby out with the bath water kind of thing.

It also allows me to take advantage of opportunities as they come up. Not all will be winners but how does one find a winning opportunity without trying? That's why I no longer tolerate the defeatism inherent in pessimism.

Edited July 17, 2016 by msj

msj · July 17, 2016

And--please understand I mean no offense and don't wish to tread on anyone's beliefs---but did someone seriously just bring up the end of times? I didn't expect that on a Canadian discussion site. That surprised me. (A discussion site based in the American "Bible Belt" perhaps, but a Canadian one? come on guys...)

Betsy seems to think my reference in post #8 where I state: ... stop hoping for the sky to fall as if it will be interpreted as some kind of proof that we need to find Gawd Almighty again.... is some kind of reference to the rapture.

It is actually a reference to pessimists like her trying to sound smart as they scare people into taking foolish action - whether it be political action as stupid as invading Iraq, for example, or changing ones beliefs and finding gawd.

Belief in gawd tends to increase during uncertain times, or so the story goes....

msj · July 17, 2016

Ahhhh.......

.......so, who cares about the future, right?

Another "if-I'm-not-impacted-by-it-who-cares," attitude.

Btw, we got no kids too, and we've been impacted by cancer not too long ago.

But we still care about the future of our youth. Depends on one's perspective, I suppose.

I don't need to care because it will take care of itself.

My interests are aligned with making the world a better place in the first place so, by default this means I'm already working to make the world a better place for future generations so I don't need to worry about it.

It is then up to eyeball's grand kids and my nieces and nephew to work to make the world a better place for themselves and, by default, for people who come after them.

JamesHackerMP · July 17, 2016

Indeed, msj....indeed.

BubberMiley · July 17, 2016

I like being a pessimist because I'm always either right or pleasantly surprised.

eyeball · July 17, 2016

My interests are aligned with making the world a better place in the first place so, by default this means I'm already working to make the world a better place for future generations so I don't need to worry about it.

Is that an assumption or is there some sort of full cost accounting methodology that rates or validates the claim that the impacts of your pursuit of self interest are as good for the world as you say?

It is then up to eyeball's grand kids and my nieces and nephew to work to make the world a better place for themselves and, by default, for people who come after them.

I feel that delving for answers to inconvenient questions will give my grand kids a bit of a helping hand. A couple of old adages, I wish I knew then what I know now, and what the hell was I thinking, come to mind.

SpankyMcFarland · July 17, 2016

Not a meltdown but more trouble on the race front.

bush_cheney2004 · July 17, 2016

Not a meltdown but more trouble on the race front.

OK...but again...nothing new for the USA, which has experienced far worse "meltdowns". I find the singular focus on the United States quite interesting given what else is concurrently going on in the world. Should Americans worry so much about the "end-of-times" for Canada or Mexico ?

SpankyMcFarland · July 17, 2016

OK...but again...nothing new for the USA, which has experienced far worse "meltdowns". I find the singular focus on the United States quite interesting given what else is concurrently going on in the world. Should Americans worry so much about the "end-of-times" for Canada or Mexico ?

This is a US Politics thread - what should we be talking about? The US dominates our culture. I have to watch US CNN rather than the global version so I see a lot more of Baton Rouge today than I would otherwise. There ARE concerns in Canada about our relations with First Nations people and what could happen there in the next few decades.

Edited July 17, 2016 by SpankyMcFarland

bush_cheney2004 · July 17, 2016

This is a US Politics forum - what should we be talking about? The US dominates our culture. I have to watch US CNN rather than the global version so I see a lot more of Baton Rouge today than I would otherwise. There ARE concerns in Canada about our relations with First Nations people and what could happen there in the next few decades.

Why does the US dominate your culture ? The U.S. is headed for a big meltdown, just like the many "meltdowns" before. It is normal and part of the American experience. Lot's more higher risk events in the world today IMHO. But I agree with you that it comes back to consuming so much American media in Canada. Even the CBC just parrots back what it gets from U.S. wire services.

SpankyMcFarland · July 17, 2016

Why does the US dominate your culture ? The U.S. is headed for a big meltdown, just like the many "meltdowns" before. It is normal and part of the American experience. Lot's more higher risk events in the world today IMHO. But I agree with you that it comes back to consuming so much American media in Canada. Even the CBC just parrots back what it gets from U.S. wire services.

Because you produce a lot more product than we do in a language intelligible to most of us. The same thing happens in many parts of the world, e.g. British Isles, Indian subcontinent etc.

The meltdown idea arises in the US and is part of the way we think now. Everything is the worst crisis ever.

bush_cheney2004 · July 17, 2016

Because you produce a lot more product than we do in a language intelligible to most of us. The same thing happens in many parts of the world, e.g. British Isles, Indian subcontinent etc.

OK...but the English language is global. Lots of other choices out there. I think you are correct for a different reason....the easy access and distribution of specifically American media in Canada. That's why I spend a lot of time on that topic. Even Fox News has to be consumed to be hated so much.

The meltdown idea arises in the US and is part of the way we think now. Everything is the worst crisis ever.

Trudeau didn't help matters much in Canada by insisting that what happens in the USA is "...so important to us".

betsy · July 17, 2016

I don't need to care because it will take care of itself.

Ha-ha-ha-ha! :lol:

Funny how they mock Christians who depend on God to care for them.

Btw, you're not an environmentalist, are you? Good to know.

Edited July 17, 2016 by betsy

betsy · July 17, 2016

I don't need to care because it will take care of itself.

My interests are aligned with making the world a better place in the first place so, by default this means I'm already working to make the world a better place for future generations so I don't need to worry about it.

It is then up to eyeball's grand kids and my nieces and nephew to work to make the world a better place for themselves and, by default, for people who come after them.

If you're saying you don't care.....how is that aligned with making the world a better place?

betsy · July 17, 2016

Betsy, you stated (sorry I didn't use the quote thingy correctly):

I could also point to the fact that the USA isn't exactly like the very same USA we knew 50 years ago. Obviously.

No. It's not the same USA we knew 50 years ago. And, being homosexual, I must say, thank God for that.

Stick to the issue!

Give an example of similar situation that the USA had experienced in recent history.

Edited July 17, 2016 by betsy

betsy · July 17, 2016

And--please understand I mean no offense and don't wish to tread on anyone's beliefs---but did someone seriously just bring up the end of times? I didn't expect that on a Canadian discussion site. That surprised me. (A discussion site based in the American "Bible Belt" perhaps, but a Canadian one? come on guys...)

It was MSJ who brought it up!

Yeah....surprised me too, and I'm supposed to be the religious one.

All I did was ask a question and boom, a few anti-religion started gunning for it!

Shows that you don't even need a bait to get these folks hooked.

Man, they're so ripe! :lol:

Seems like any talks about chaos conjure up the apocalypse in his head.

He's very worried about end times, by the looks of it. :lol:

Edited July 17, 2016 by betsy

dialamah · July 17, 2016

And--please understand I mean no offense and don't wish to tread on anyone's beliefs---but did someone seriously just bring up the end of times? I didn't expect that on a Canadian discussion site. That surprised me. (A discussion site based in the American "Bible Belt" perhaps, but a Canadian one? come on guys...)

Believe it or not, we have Conservative, fundamentalist Christians here too, along with similar-minded Muslims/Sikhs/Hindus/etc.. And Betsy may well try to save your immortal soul, you having admitted you are gay. You need only *choose* heterosexuality, and you'll be fine -- check out the "Transformed" thread, which gives many examples of people who successfully transformed from the 'evil' of homosexuality.

betsy · July 17, 2016

If you hadn't noticed that is my question posed to a specific response to a guy who exalts at the feet of chicken little.

Mmmm, chicken feet -but I digress....

Well I can answer too....based on how I see you from this angle.

You're the one who automatically thought of end times! The concerns posed by me has logical basis - the news we see - so many things going on. Today - it's the shooting of cops in Louissiana!

To dismiss everything outright would be like you being an ostrich!

It doesn't require any stretch of the imagination that these situations can also be exploited by anarchists, as an example. Islamic terrorists could also exploit the situation and create more havoc!

Edited July 17, 2016 by betsy

msj · July 17, 2016

If you're saying you don't care.....how is that aligned with making the world a better place?

Whether I care or not has little to no effect on making the world a better place.

Lots of people say they care yet likely do far worse for the planet than I ever could - many a politician fits here.

I'm not on humanities side - I would have no problem with humanity going extinct if it were to come to it (unlikely anytime soon but I remain optimistic!) and I have done my part by not spawning more humans.

msj · July 17, 2016

Well I can answer too....based on how I see you from this angle.

You're the one who automatically thought of end times!

No I did not.

My first post was about people using their economic pessimism to justify their political angst.

My second post is in reference to people using their pessimism to justify pushing their angst ridden religious agenda.

The concerns posed by me has logical basis - the news we see - so many things going on. Today - it's the shooting of cops in Louissiana!

To dismiss everything outright would be like you being an ostrich!

It doesn't require any stretch of the imagination that these situations can also be exploited by anarchists, as an example. Islamic terrorists could also exploit the situation and create more havoc!

Sure, and the situations can be exploited by policy makers who bring in gun control legislation.

And by judges who sentence bad cops for murder which relieves some of the anger that leads to people targeting cops in the first place.

Who knows, maybe it will lead to a multicultural paradise?! (Sarcasm here).

The point being that there are many responses that can turn current events into positive outcomes tomorrow.

Edited July 17, 2016 by msj

SpankyMcFarland · July 17, 2016

OK...but the English language is global. Lots of other choices out there. I think you are correct for a different reason....the easy access and distribution of specifically American media in Canada. That's why I spend a lot of time on that topic. Even Fox News has to be consumed to be hated so much.

Trudeau didn't help matters much in Canada by insisting that what happens in the USA is "...so important to us".

For Canadians, US shows are much easier to understand than UK ones. Our particular type of North American English is used beyond this continent when people have to use it but they prefer to use their own and their cultures are different. Not all shows translate. Some would need subtitles and background.

dialamah · July 17, 2016

Well I can answer too....based on how I see you from this angle.

The concerns posed by me has logical basis - the news we see - so many things going on. Today - it's the shooting of cops in Louissiana!

News we see focuses on that which is shocking, scary, attention-grabbing. It creates the impression that the world is on the brink of disaster. But most people live a fairly uneventful and safe life, especially in Western countries. This is no comfort to those caught up in the horrible events that make the evening news, of course. Still, to think that the news is even remotely accurate for assessing danger to individuals or the human race as a whole is a mistake. While I rarely agree with BC2004 - this time I do; this isn't a lot different than previous times in human history, although it is certainly more widely disseminated.

Consider this article:

What you have to do, of course,” he explains, “is count the number of wars, count the number of people killed in war, plot the trend over time. That’s how you get a picture of whether the world has become more, or less, violent. It’s the only way to get such a picture.”

Pinker points out that during World War II, the human population lost 300 of every 100,000 people each year. During the Korean War it was in the 20s, before dropping into the teens during the Vietnam era. In the 1980s and 1990s, it fell into the single digits. For most of the 21st century it’s been below one war death per 100,000 people per year.

There has been an uptick globally as a result of the civil war in Syria, doubling from 0.5 per 100,000 to 1. But Pinker says “you can’t compare 1 with 15 or 25 or 300.” Everywhere else in the world, the stats are still trending downward. The same is true for homicides.

And this one taken from FBI stats:

The US homicide rate in 2014, the most recent year available, was 4.5 per 100,000. The 2014 total follows a long downward trend and is the lowest homicide rate recorded since 1963 when the rate was 4.6 per 100,000. To find a lower homicide rate, we must travel back to 1957 when the total homicide rate hit 4.0 per 100,000.

Homicide rates were considerably higher in the United States during the 1970s, 80s, and 90s, but over the past 25 years, have fallen nearly continuously