The Raw, in-your-face corruption of Ontario's Liberal government

[Argus]

The PCs have a bigger gravy train than the Liberals, the only difference is their gravy train only stops at the door of their corporate crony buddies. The PCs cut back on spending by giving away the farm to their friends and have them collect inflated revenue from the farm; Hydro, 407ETR, labs for monitoring water quality, etc.

The Liberals at all levels have always been the party of institutional corruption. That's a given. There are no ideological believers in Liberal Parties. The Lefties join the NDP. The Righties join the Tories. Those who are just in it for self-enrichment, who have no particular vision or ideals, they join the Liberals and climb the greasy ladder to where the money is.

Why is Ontario selling off Ontario Hydro? Because the Bankers who donate money to the Liberal party wanted their reward, and they got it, in the hundreds of millions they've gotten from handling the sale. Why is Ontario plunging the province into economic chaos with their ridiculously expensive electricity production regime? Because private power generators have cut deals with the Liberals in exchange for big donations to the party. Why are Ontario teachers so well-off and why do they keep getting big raises? Because they and the Ontario Liberals scratch each others' backs with millions going back and forth between them.

[?Impact]

Why is Ontario selling off Ontario Hydro?

Mike Harris - 1998 Electricity Act - the sale of hard earned public assets to support the cronies.

[Argus]

Mike Harris - 1998 Electricity Act - the sale of hard earned public assets to support the cronies.

Does your excuse making know no limits? You're blaming Mike Harris for Kathleen Wynne's decision to sell off Ontario Hydro?

[?Impact]

Does your excuse making know no limits? You're blaming Mike Harris for Kathleen Wynne's decision to sell off Ontario Hydro?

No, I am blaming Mike Harris for unlocking and opening the door. That was the first step for Wynne opening it even further. That was a dumb move that should never have happened.

[Argus]

No, I am blaming Mike Harris for unlocking and opening the door. That was the first step for Wynne opening it even further. That was a dumb move that should never have happened.

I disagree. I don't think government runs much of anything well. I'm not a libertarian. There are certain services that it simply makes sense for government to provide. Health care, policing and fire, for example. But by and large government should not involve itself in what the private sector can do more effectively and more efficiently.

[?Impact]

what the private sector can do more effectively and more efficiently.

That presumes there is [real] competition. That is not the case in power generation/transmission/distribution. That is not the case in landline communications, and barely the case in wireless communications. In most other industries it only works until the point that the industry giant start to gobble up the competition and then it ceases there as well.

[Bob Macadoo]

......did I just hear ON is projecting 3% growth this year.....uh oh......

Edited July 18, 2016 by Bob Macadoo

[?Impact]

......did I just hear ON is projecting 3% growth this year.....uh oh......

I don't know about 'projections', but that has been the actual case for the 6 months ending in March. I would like to see that continue for the rest of the year, but I wouldn't hold my breath. The interesting note is they are not waiting for the June quarter results to be posted. Since Wynne is not in election mode she doesn't have the incentive to lie like the federal projections we were talking about a year ago so hopefully any inside knowledge she has is being properly reflected.

[Argus]

That presumes there is [real] competition. That is not the case in power generation/transmission/distribution. That is not the case in landline communications, and barely the case in wireless communications. In most other industries it only works until the point that the industry giant start to gobble up the competition and then it ceases there as well.

Do you actually think the government would operate the phone system, be it landline or cell phones, better than BCE or Telus?

[?Impact]

Do you actually think the government would operate the phone system, be it landline or cell phones, better than BCE or Telus?

Let's see the bureaucratic overhead of the medical system in the US (yes, it is private even though it receives government money) is about 5 times as bad (ie. expensive) as in Canada. No, the private sector fails miserably in providing better service. Providing options, only available to a few at a greatly inflated price, is not better it is far worse.

[Argus]

Let's see the bureaucratic overhead of the medical system in the US (yes, it is private even though it receives government money) is about 5 times as bad (ie. expensive) as in Canada. No, the private sector fails miserably in providing better service. Providing options, only available to a few at a greatly inflated price, is not better it is far worse.

I didn't ask if health care should be private. I agree it is more efficient as a public system. I asked if you thought the government would provide better cell phone service.

[Topaz]

My view is they COULD BUT, has the lobbyist gotten to the government, so that they WOULD give us cheaper rates.

[Moonlight Graham]

I just want to say that the title for this thread is the best of 2016 on MLW. I mean, there's corruption, but then there's "raw, in-your-face corruption" LOL

[JamesHackerMP]

Why shouldn't a country that is so heavily influenced by American popular culture not be influenced by American style political corruption? Ask any Canadian about House of Cards, and they will probably tell you that it is American, and the 'U' in 'FU' stands for Underwood not Urquhart.

Now, wait a moment: I hope you're not suggesting that the corruption in the Canadian federal and provincial government(s) is somehow our fault? Like we've release a contagion into the atmosphere, deliberately so it can drift its way north on the winds and blow across your borders, that causes government corruption? I don't mean to sound mocking, but your statement sounds like something that would have come from Al Jazeera.

Then again, it's always more patriotic to blame another country instead of your own for one of its own problems.

Edited July 21, 2016 by JamesHackerMP

[?Impact]

hope you're not suggesting that the corruption in the Canadian federal and provincial government(s) is somehow our fault?

I thought I was blaming it on the Brits

[JamesHackerMP]

You said that "most Canadians know it stands for Underwood not Urquhart". Underwood's the US version, Urquhart the original British version. Not the other way around. I think there's a lot of people world wide who can blame the Brits for everything (even though they blame America instead....gee, I forgot it was the USA that broke up the Ottoman Empire, right? LOL)

Well, the British settled us too. We may have made a "clean break" but there's still a lot of British influence in American politics. The Magna Carta, a Briton once told me, is actually more respected and cited by lawyers in the USA than in its country of origin, for example.

[JamesHackerMP]

But at any rate, about the sad state of your province (a Canadian girl was telling me exactly the same thing at a party I went to once in fact, she's a dual citizen)...sometimes people just re-elect bad governments. Again, and again, and again in some cases.

[?Impact]

You said that "most Canadians know it stands for Underwood not Urquhart"

I see the quotes, but I can't find the original that you quoted.

[JamesHackerMP]

well it probably doesn't matter, then.

If I might ask, how strong is party control within a provincial legislature? Is it as strong as I've heard some of you complain about the House of Commons?

[Ash74]

Let's see the bureaucratic overhead of the medical system in the US (yes, it is private even though it receives government money) is about 5 times as bad (ie. expensive) as in Canada. No, the private sector fails miserably in providing better service. Providing options, only available to a few at a greatly inflated price, is not better it is far worse.

This is a could point and we could argue it using several points but from your prospective could you explain the benefit of selling Hydro 1 other than a one time payout to balance a budget during an election year

[Ash74]

Because the Ontario Liberals have nothing to hide right?

https://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2016/08/04/ontario-wont-reveal-climate-change-charges-on-gas-bills.html

[GostHacked]

The Liberals at all levels have always been the party of institutional corruption. That's a given. There are no ideological believers in Liberal Parties. The Lefties join the NDP. The Righties join the Tories. Those who are just in it for self-enrichment, who have no particular vision or ideals, they join the Liberals and climb the greasy ladder to where the money is.

The rhetoric is high with you in this thread. Liberals and Conservatives are both to blame. The partisan support blinds people to what is really going on in government as a whole. The whole system is corrupt and there are Libs and Cons and even NDP all over it.

But then again, it's the voters that are to blame for glossing over past crimes and think a party or candidate is the best chance at getting things back on track.

[Ash74]

I have said it before but voting for a politician is like walking into a sex shop, yang gotta figure out which dildo will hurt the least.

It is time to buy a new dildo and hope the one we have new didn't do too much permanent damage

[JamesHackerMP]

I have said it before but voting for a politician is like walking into a sex shop, yang gotta figure out which dildo will hurt the least.

It is time to buy a new dildo and hope the one we have new didn't do too much permanent damage

ROFL! I've said much the same to my friends about voting in US elections. But generally there's only two "toys" to choose from.

I share sympathy with your plight by the way. The same party has pretty much controlled the State of Maryland since Andrew Jackson was president. In the last century, there have been 5 governors from the opposing party (GOP) and only one of them was re-elected to a 2nd term.

[taxme]

The Ontario Liberals have been free to brazenly steal from the province's taxpayers for 13 years and counting.

And yes.

And the PC's and the NDP were no better. These politicians spend taxpayer's tax dollars as if it were their own, and the taxpayer's just sit back and allow them to continue on. But we the peasants should not really blame the politicians for what they do because they let them do it. The apathy of the Canadian taxpayer's in Canada is sickening. They just don't care as to how their tax dollars are blown. And the sad part is that for the see able future, I see no change coming from the taxpayer. Until that happens, the blowing of their tax dollars will carry on. It will be business as usual. :angry: