Police Officers Shot in Dallas #2

[cybercoma]

I know. Broken tail light trumps a clean rap sheet and a permit to carry a concealed weapon. Guilty as charged.

Sentence? Roadside execution. In front of his four year old kid. That cop was scum. Full stop. Even other cops have taken to social media to denounce him. Here's Argus, the same guy who questioned judges' qualifications because they weren't white, blaming the victim. Ever see him blaming white victims here? Not even once.

[cybercoma]

The media is responsible for provoking and aggravating the sense of anger and outrage of the Black community towards police

I think trigger happy POS cops have done enough themselves without "the media." This went viral on social media far before the news grabbed it.

[cybercoma]

I've heard that there's a movement to make cops pay for liability insurance like doctors have. Would that help?

Not even a little bit. US policing has become the Stanfod Prison Experiment with deadly weapons.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_prison_experiment

Edit: if you read about the Milgram Experiment and the Stanford Prison Experiment you'll notice the overarching problem is that roles define people's behaviour and not their individual personalities or dispositions. The role of cops in the US today is very adversarial. Keep that in mind the next time you see one of these videos. They do not act as public servants. They do not attempt to de-escalate situations. They internalize the authority role and become violent and sadistic. There are some deep sociological and psychological issues that need to be addressed and liability insurance won't even come close to cutting it. Taking away cops guns and relying on special units when the need arises for armed conflict would. But that will never happen, especially not in America.

Edited July 8, 2016 by cybercoma

[Wilber]

Can you believe that in Britain the police-officers don't carry guns at all? When somebody suggested that they should they refused. If a situation arises which needs armed response special forces are called in.

I think that is a bit in the other extreme to the American system of cops being armed to the teeth.

Everyone can be armed to the teeth in America and often are. Even in Canada which does regulate firearms, police can find themselves at a disadvantage. Two years ago, three RCMP officers were killed and two wounded in New Brunswick because they were outgunned by a shooter.

[Wilber]

I daresay that if a cop walked up to a vehicle and was shot to death by its occupant, many, including some of those screaming for this cops blood, would say that cop made a mistake and got himself shot.

[dre]

I'm not sure I get your drift. Are you saying there is some justification for taking revenge on innocent members of a group when other members of a group might be guilty?

If so, I disagree.

Not a justification no. Still the relationship between law enforcement and people seems to be getting increasingly confrontational. Incidents like the recent murders of black men and now these murders will further exacerbate it and make things worse.

Its not something you can really fix... its just what happens when you have a country with a quarter of a billion guns all over the place.

[cybercoma]

Not a justification no. Still the relationship between law enforcement and people seems to be getting increasingly confrontational. Incidents like the recent murders of black men and now these murders will further exacerbate it and make things worse.

Its not something you can really fix... its just what happens when you have a country with a quarter of a billion guns all over the place.

This chief gets it. http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2016/07/its-not-us-vs-them/490493/?utm_source=atlfb

[bjre]

Sound like the Hunger Game.

If US cops kill 400-500 in street each year, the death since 911 will be more than 911, However the news for this kind of killing can be ignored compare with 911.

[taxme]

Do we yet know that these events have anything to do with police shootings/BLM etc? Couldn't it be radical Islam? A tin-hat wearing kook?

No way, this was just plain revenge, and the innocent black people will pay for it. What this idiot has done has now made white police officers very nervous for their lives because when they do stop a black person for whatever reason now the officer may have to be ready for a shootout. And the shooter has made white people nervous also because the killer has said that ordinary white people need to be killed. It does not look good.

[jacee]

I daresay that if a cop walked up to a vehicle and was shot to death by its occupant, many, including some of those screaming for this cops blood, would say that cop made a mistake and got himself shot.

The killer would go to jail or the chair.

That's the difference.

Police who murder ... go back on the job.

.

[Argus]

Again, put things in context. Whites make up only 32.3% of New York city population. Without the context statistics are 100% meaningless.

Where are you getting that number from? A cursory google shows the number at 44.6% So the group which makes up just under half the population only commits 2% of the shootings. You consider that to be meaningless?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_New_York_City#White_ancestries

[Argus]

The killer would go to jail or the chair.

That's the difference.

Police who murder ... go back on the job.

You and the others are completely ignoring reality when you compare a deliberate, cold blooded murder to that of a cop who is or thinks he is defending himself.

Anyone who thinks this cop walked up to the car with the intent of shooting anyone is out of his or her mind.

[jacee]

While I think the cop overreacted and made a mistake in that case, this guy did himself no favors either. If you tell a cop you have a gun on you the next thing you need to do is NOT MOVE until the cop tells you to. Then you tell him where your wallet is and ask if you can reach for it.

The cop asked for his ID.

How stupid is the cop to think the guy's not going to reach for it?

Duh.

You're just tripping all over yourself to blame an innocent victim, just like cops have been doing.

That kind of lies, deceit and cover up just got some of them shot.

.

Edited July 8, 2016 by jacee

[jacee]

What we need is a new training regime for police officers. Do you know, for example, that police in North America receive very little training in hand to hand combat, and virtually none in how to deal with an assailant armed with an edged weapon or club? UK police receive extensive training in both these areas. Why do North American cops not get it? Simple, because they're told to rely on their guns.

North American police are also taught to be afraid from their first day of training. The danger to them is grossly exaggerated by their training and produces a culture of fear and suspicion where mostly young men ( a group noted for poor judgement) has to grab at his gun the moment he feels threatened. In fact the biggest danger to a police officer on the job is -- traffic accidents.

Their confrontational attitude often provokes the violence they're defending against. I've seen many, many cases on video where police insist on forcing a suspect wanted for a non-violent offense to lay on the ground to search them, for example, something UK police rarely do. Since most suspects are young men equipped with a heady supply of testosterone they are often resisted.

I agree.

.

[?Impact]

Where are you getting that number from? A cursory google shows the number at 44.6% So the group which makes up just under half the population only commits 2% of the shootings. You consider that to be meaningless?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_New_York_City#White_ancestries

The same source as your original statistic probably originated from, the New York Police Department Crime and Enforcement Activity report. In there they have separate categories for White and Hispanic. You can't take a statistic from one source without understanding what is actually reported.

[Argus]

The cop asked for his ID.

How stupid is the cop to think the guy's not going to reach for it?

Duh.

I don't know. I haven't seen a timeline or a description of how fast or where he reached. I also suspect the cop asked that before the person told him he had a gun.

You're just tripping all over yourself to blame an innocent victim, just like cops have been doing.

No, I have said he appears innocent, but he made a mistake. The cop, of course, also made a mistake, a worse one.

That kind of lies, deceit and cover up just got some of them shot.

No, a racist shot them. I guess you don't care about violent racists if they're not white, right? The guy stated outright he wanted to kill white people - especially cops, but not limited to them.

What happened in the car was a tragic misjudgement, not a deliberate racial attack like what happened in Dallas.

Edited July 8, 2016 by Charles Anthony
fixed mal-formed quotes

[jacee]

You and the others are completely ignoring reality when you compare a deliberate, cold blooded murder to that of a cop who is or thinks he is defending himself.

Anyone who thinks this cop walked up to the car with the intent of shooting anyone is out of his or her mind.

You raise a good point: At what point did the cop pull his gun and point it, and why?

I doubt that's standard procedure for a broken taillight.

.

Edited July 8, 2016 by jacee

[Argus]

The same source as your original statistic probably originated from, the New York Police Department Crime and Enforcement Activity report. In there they have separate categories for White and Hispanic. You can't take a statistic from one source without understanding what is actually reported.

Well it's an interesting abnormality between the statistics, but ultimately not very meaningful. The stats from that source showed 98% of shootings from non-whites. So unless the stats showed whites made up 2% of the population it still demonstrates that Whites would be unlikely to be as feared by police as Blacks, who make up 71% of shootings.

[jacee]

The cop asked for his ID.

How stupid is the cop to think the guy's not going to reach for it?

Duh.

I don't know. I haven't seen a timeline or a description of how fast or where he reached. I also suspect the cop asked that before the person told him he had a gun.

You're just tripping all over yourself to blame an innocent victim, just like cops have been doing.

No, I have said he appears innocent, but he made a mistake. The cop, of course, also made a mistake, a worse one.

He didn't make a mistake.

That kind of lies, deceit and cover up just got some of them shot.

No, a racist shot them. I guess you don't care about violent racists if they're not white, right? The guy stated outright he wanted to kill white people - especially cops, but not limited to them.

I'm not defending the guys who shot the cops.

I'm saying that when cops repeatedly kill innocent people, there's going to be a backlash.

What happened in the car was a tragic misjudgement, not a deliberate racial attack like what happened in Dallas.

A white man with a broken taillight, CCP and a child in the car would not have been killed in that situation.

Dallas wasn't racial: It was anti-cop.

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Edited July 8, 2016 by jacee

[Wilber]

The killer would go to jail or the chair.

That's the difference.

Police who murder ... go back on the job.

.

Would you say the cop made a mistake if he got shot or not? Do you spend your working life walking up to situations where you have no idea what could be waiting for you? The sequence of events are very important here, hopefully there will be body or dash cam footage to make it more clear. You want to find fault but perhaps more than one person made a mistake in this situation.

[?Impact]

but perhaps more than one person made a mistake in this situation.

Only one person is dead.

[Wilber]

Only one person is dead.

You would be happier if they both were?

[?Impact]

You would be happier if they both were?

I would be happier if neither were.

[?Impact]

it still demonstrates that Whites would be unlikely to be as feared by police as Blacks

According to the Washington Post after analyzing FBI reports on police killings in the United States, 52% of the felonious incidents were from white offenders and 43% were black.

Edited July 8, 2016 by ?Impact

[Argus]

According to the Washington Post after analyzing FBI reports on police killings in the United States, 52% of the felonious incidents were from white offenders and 43% were black.

That's an interesting piece of data. My belief, though, in talking with and reading what cops have to say, is that this is not their perception. Then again, national stats would vary from those observed in the large urban centers where these kinds of racial problems seem to be centered. And, in fact, even by these stats Blacks are much more likely per capita, to be involved in murderous attacks on police than whites.

But note I've never pretended that police fears of being murdered are justified by reality, just that they are prevalent among police officers.

Edited July 8, 2016 by Argus