Boges Posted July 8, 2016 Report Posted July 8, 2016 Balls, you think a cop isn't going to be extra careful with anyone he knows is armed? I agree with Argus in that this cop probably over reacted but if you are armed and having an interaction with a police officer, you would be smart to take a second and put yourself in his position and act accordingly.. What evidence do you have that he did anything wrong. I thought carrying a gun was protected by 2A. The cop would have reason to believe that he would shoot him. Did he? Quote
BC_chick Posted July 8, 2016 Report Posted July 8, 2016 Virtually none of the Black men killed by police could accurately be described as 'innocent'. I know. Broken tail light trumps a clean rap sheet and a permit to carry a concealed weapon. Guilty as charged. Quote It's kind of the worst thing that any humans could be doing at this time in human history. Other than that, it's fine." Bill Nye on Alberta Oil Sands
Wilber Posted July 8, 2016 Report Posted July 8, 2016 I know. Broken tail light trumps a clean rap sheet and a permit to carry a concealed weapon. Guilty as charged. Yup, carrying a gun can get you shot. A permit doesn't make a firearm any less deadly. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
Boges Posted July 8, 2016 Report Posted July 8, 2016 Yup, carrying a gun can get you shot. A permit doesn't make a firearm any less deadly. Especially if you're black, it appears. Why hasn't the NRA commented on one of the "Good guys with a gun" being murdered in cold blood. Quote
Argus Posted July 8, 2016 Report Posted July 8, 2016 The media is responsible for provoking and aggravating the sense of anger and outrage of the Black community towards police and society in general. You can see that anger building everywhere, despite the fact police shootings are in almost all cases justified, and that whites are killed twice as often as blacks - though you almost never hear about those killings. Virtually every killing I have seen on video or heard about starts with a Black man refusing police orders, and resisting arrest. Police, especially in the US, react ... poorly... to that sort of thing, and where young men, testosterone and guns are involved in violent confrontations, people can get hurt. The wonder is there aren't more shootings, and more of them aren't unjustified. I tend to watch You Tube instead of TV, and I've seen so many videos of confrontations between a Black individual and police end in violence, mostly because the young Black man is argumentative, ignores orders, and then resists arrest. And often now I see crowds of Black bystanders watching who generally have no idea what the problem is but start howling and screaming in anger as the police wrestle around on the ground with their suspect. Instead of two or four cops there needs to be twenty or thirty to control the crowds. It's ridiculous, and we've even seen that sort of thing start to spread to Toronto of late. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8LrnVCo-n8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmFq4d-eL6U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMMoFQin37I Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Wilber Posted July 8, 2016 Report Posted July 8, 2016 Why hasn't the NRA commented on one of the "Good guys with a gun" being murdered in cold blood. Pretty obvious why they haven't commented. The have nothing to contribute that wouldn't show them to be the assholes they already are. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
Argus Posted July 8, 2016 Report Posted July 8, 2016 Please cite that that's how things went down. That is what the man's wife said happened. http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/07/07/485066807/police-stop-ends-in-black-mans-death-aftermath-is-livestreamed-online-video It has everything to do with the fact that a black person is way more likely to be thrown in jail and for longer than a white person doing the same crime. Cite? Same crime? Exact same? Same history? And how does that even matter? The police don't send people to prison. The police arrest people for breaking the law. Every study done shows Black people, particularly young black men commit far more crime than white people. That is the reality the police deal with. See the Stanford student that raped an unconscious woman but only got 6 months because the judge didn't want to ruin his life. You mean the rich white student who apologized, admitted he was wrong, who had a top notch lawyer and supportive family? Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted July 8, 2016 Report Posted July 8, 2016 (edited) I know. Broken tail light trumps a clean rap sheet and a permit to carry a concealed weapon. Guilty as charged. I invite you to conduct the same experiment. Tell the next cop you see that you have a gun and reach for your wallet. Edited July 8, 2016 by Argus Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted July 8, 2016 Report Posted July 8, 2016 What evidence do you have that he did anything wrong. I thought carrying a gun was protected by 2A. The cop would have reason to believe that he would shoot him. Did he? Because the cop made a mistake. Why is it people only care when cops make mistakes with Black men? Unlike the shootings of Philando Castile and Alton Sterling, which have created yet anotherfirestorm complete with accusations of police racism, the media is ignoring the death of Dylan Noble, a 19-year-old white man, on June 25. http://www.dailywire.com/news/7274/cops-shoot-white-guy-fresno-nobody-pays-attention-hank-berrien Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Bryan Posted July 8, 2016 Report Posted July 8, 2016 Let's compare these two sets of stats quoted in this thread: Black males between the ages of 15-34 make up 3% of the population in the United States but are responsible for 38% of all murder, manslaughter, aggravated assaults, robberies and rapes. That figure is roughly 20 times the incidence among White men. And: ....the ratio was seven-to-one of unarmed black men dying from police gunshots compared to unarmed white men.... So involved in serious criminal incidents 20 times more often, yet only shot 7 times more often. Doesn't that mean the police are actually showing MORE restraint when dealing with black suspects than with white ones??? Quote
Boges Posted July 8, 2016 Report Posted July 8, 2016 Because the cop made a mistake. Why is it people only care when cops make mistakes with Black men? Unlike the shootings of Philando Castile and Alton Sterling, which have created yet anotherfirestorm complete with accusations of police racism, the media is ignoring the death of Dylan Noble, a 19-year-old white man, on June 25. http://www.dailywire.com/news/7274/cops-shoot-white-guy-fresno-nobody-pays-attention-hank-berrien I actually got really outraged at the shooting of Sammy Yatim in Toronto which resulted in an attempted murder convictions for the officer that killed him. You take a job where you get given a gun, your mistakes are far more serious. I've heard that there's a movement to make cops pay for liability insurance like doctors have. Would that help? Quote
BC_chick Posted July 8, 2016 Report Posted July 8, 2016 (edited) Yup, carrying a gun can get you shot. A permit doesn't make a firearm any less deadly. Argus said all the people shot were not 'innocent'. That's BS. He was carrying a legal firearm. He WAS innocent. Edited July 8, 2016 by BC_chick Quote It's kind of the worst thing that any humans could be doing at this time in human history. Other than that, it's fine." Bill Nye on Alberta Oil Sands
?Impact Posted July 8, 2016 Report Posted July 8, 2016 Black males between the ages of 15-34 make up 3% of the population in the United States but are responsible for 38% of all murder, manslaughter, aggravated assaults, robberies and rapes. That figure is roughly 20 times the incidence among White men. What about white men between the ages of 15-34? Lets have a direct comparison, or I will call a spade a racist. Quote
Argus Posted July 8, 2016 Report Posted July 8, 2016 I actually got really outraged at the shooting of Sammy Yatim in Toronto which resulted in an attempted murder convictions for the officer that killed him. You take a job where you get given a gun, your mistakes are far more serious. I've heard that there's a movement to make cops pay for liability insurance like doctors have. Would that help? Nope. What we need is a new training regime for police officers. Do you know, for example, that police in North America receive very little training in hand to hand combat, and virtually none in how to deal with an assailant armed with an edged weapon or club? UK police receive extensive training in both these areas. Why do North American cops not get it? Simple, because they're told to rely on their guns. North American police are also taught to be afraid from their first day of training. The danger to them is grossly exaggerated by their training and produces a culture of fear and suspicion where mostly young men ( a group noted for poor judgement) has to grab at his gun the moment he feels threatened. In fact the biggest danger to a police officer on the job is -- traffic accidents. Their confrontational attitude often provokes the violence they're defending against. I've seen many, many cases on video where police insist on forcing a suspect wanted for a non-violent offense to lay on the ground to search them, for example, something UK police rarely do. Since most suspects are young men equipped with a heady supply of testosterone they are often resisted. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted July 8, 2016 Report Posted July 8, 2016 Argus said all the people shot were not 'innocent'. That's BS. He was carrying a legal firearm. He WAS innocent. Argus said no such thing. Read again. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted July 8, 2016 Report Posted July 8, 2016 What about white men between the ages of 15-34? Lets have a direct comparison, or I will call a spade a racist. The article did not contain a direct reference. However, given police statistics show whites commit only a minority of crimes I doubt the comparison would please you. I just posted on another thread a link to an article which showed non-whites responsible for 98% of shootings in New York city for example, and 92% of all violent crimes. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
BC_chick Posted July 8, 2016 Report Posted July 8, 2016 Argus said no such thing. Read again. This is what you said: Argus, on 08 Jul 2016 - 09:28 AM, said: Virtually none of the Black men killed by police could accurately be described as 'innocent'. Quote It's kind of the worst thing that any humans could be doing at this time in human history. Other than that, it's fine." Bill Nye on Alberta Oil Sands
Wilber Posted July 8, 2016 Report Posted July 8, 2016 I actually got really outraged at the shooting of Sammy Yatim in Toronto which resulted in an attempted murder convictions for the officer that killed him. You take a job where you get given a gun, your mistakes are far more serious. I've heard that there's a movement to make cops pay for liability insurance like doctors have. Would that help? Mistakes are more serious for anyone who carries a gun. People who would carry a gun should bear that in mind. Quote "Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice". WSC
Argus Posted July 8, 2016 Report Posted July 8, 2016 This is what you said: Argus, on 08 Jul 2016 - 09:28 AM, said: Yes, but 'virtually none' is not the same as 'none'. It looks like this guy who reached for his drivers license was an innocent, for example. The only other one that comes to mind is, perhaps not coincidentally, another black motorist who reached for his wallet at a gas station and was immediately shot (and the cop immediately and justifiably fired). Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Big Guy Posted July 8, 2016 Report Posted July 8, 2016 In 2008, state and local law enforcement agencies employed more than 1.1 million persons on a full-time basis, including about 765,000 sworn personnel (defined as those with general arrest powers). Agencies also employed approximately 100,000 part-time employees, including 44,000 sworn officers. There are about 37 million Black or African Americans in the USA. “NEARLY 1 IN 5 AMERICANS SUFFERS FROM MENTAL ILLNESS EACH YEAR” http://www.newsweek.com/nearly-1-5-americans-suffer-mental-illness-each-year-230608 Therefore about 20% or 200,000 persons in law enforcement in USA suffer from mental illness. Therefore about 20% or 7 million Black or African Americans suffer from mental illness. There are about 300 million guns in the USA. So 1 white police officer shoots and kills 1 black man and everybody goes crazy. I'm surprised that it does not happen far more often. Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
-TSS- Posted July 8, 2016 Report Posted July 8, 2016 Can you believe that in Britain the police-officers don't carry guns at all? When somebody suggested that they should they refused. If a situation arises which needs armed response special forces are called in. I think that is a bit in the other extreme to the American system of cops being armed to the teeth. Quote
cybercoma Posted July 8, 2016 Report Posted July 8, 2016 Yeah how dare Mr. Philandro Castile have a broken tail light and a licence to carry a firearm! Dude had what was coming. Do you really want to go down this racist rabbit hole? How about the fact that they are far more likely to be incarcerated for non-violent drug offences even though they don't consume drugs at any greater level than the rest of the population. Once you've been sent to prison, your chances of being a productive member of society drop dramatically. It's not just drug offences. The system is far less lenient to black people in every way. They're more likely to be stopped by cops, more likely to be arrested, more likely to be prosecuted, and more likely to be incarcerated for all sorts of offences as compared to white people in the same circumstances. Argus won't address that problem with the uniform police statistics. Quote
BC_chick Posted July 8, 2016 Report Posted July 8, 2016 Can you believe that in Britain the police-officers don't carry guns at all? When somebody suggested that they should they refused. If a situation arises which needs armed response special forces are called in. I think that is a bit in the other extreme to the American system of cops being armed to the teeth. I was in England when that was happening. It was absolutely incredible! Quote It's kind of the worst thing that any humans could be doing at this time in human history. Other than that, it's fine." Bill Nye on Alberta Oil Sands
cybercoma Posted July 8, 2016 Report Posted July 8, 2016 This tends to be the response of the mindless zealots every time you bring up facts. The only thing mindless is your total inability to understand the "facts" you're presenting and what they refer to, Quote
?Impact Posted July 8, 2016 Report Posted July 8, 2016 The article did not contain a direct reference. However, given police statistics show whites commit only a minority of crimes I doubt the comparison would please you. I just posted on another thread a link to an article which showed non-whites responsible for 98% of shootings in New York city for example, and 92% of all violent crimes. Again, put things in context. Whites make up only 32.3% of New York city population. Without the context statistics are 100% meaningless. Quote
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