The Three Issues Everyone is Ignoring

[Argus]

There are three issues which get very little airplay of late, but which are certainly more important than anything else under discussion concerning Canada's future. They are immigration, health care, and aboriginals. Instead of holding adult discussions on these important topics we waste time on inconsequential nonsense like gender neutral bathrooms and gay marriage rights.

On immigration, we continue to import hundreds of thousands of mosty third world immigrants each year with no guidelines as to why we are taking in so many or what the goal of immigration ought to be. Sunny sounding sound bytes without scientific, statistical or demographic backup are nothing more than blithe political assurances of no substance. The cost to Canada of the immigration program has been pegged at over $20 billion a year, yet we have virtually no discussion of it.

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/national/how-many-from-where-why-were-not-really-talking-about-immigration-in-this-campaign

On healthcare, we have an aging population, a very poor system for caring for elders, long hospital wait times, doctor shortages, and burgeoning deficits. No one has suggested any way forward, and the only suggestion from the Liberals is to spend more money we don't have.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/canadas-health-care-system-favours-the-cradle-and-ignores-the-grave/article30171046/

We have a burgeoning population of aboriginals, especially now that the courts have added metis to the mix. Far too many of them live in miserable conditions in backwater reserves with no economic viability. There is no way of making these reserves viable, and all we are seeing is ever increasing costs to the federal and provincial governments with ever decreasing results.

http://calgaryherald.com/opinion/columnists/milke-the-facts-about-aboriginal-funding-in-canada

[waldo]

each of the issues is thread worthy on its own. I hesitate to target any single issue... and put efforts to that end... to only see those efforts buried in short order by the 'catch-all' nature of this OP. The multiple issues, in themselves, will influence "the burying" - combine that with a 3-fold "off-topic and derail" opportunity and you've essentially hooped your own thread.

.

[Argus]

each of the issues is thread worthy on its own. I hesitate to target any single issue... and put efforts to that end... to only see those efforts buried in short order by the 'catch-all' nature of this OP. The multiple issues, in themselves, will influence "the burying" - combine that with a 3-fold "off-topic and derail" opportunity and you've essentially hooped your own thread.

.

You aren't entirely wrong, but I hesitated to put a lengthy OP into separate issues when they might be quickly filled with insults and closed down...

Immigration and aboriginals in particular tend to draw hissy fits from some people when discussed. Plus I was also interested in the angle that these were extremely important issues yet no party was really discussing them.

Edited May 30, 2016 by Argus

[?Impact]

Our economic model is based on growth, and with a low birthrate and aging population we look at immigration to maintain that growth. I see the first two of your issues as intertwined. Maybe it is time to rethink our economic models.

[TimG]

Our economic model is based on growth, and with a low birthrate and aging population we look at immigration to maintain that growth. I see the first two of your issues as intertwined. Maybe it is time to rethink our economic models.

A false premise. First the can GDP grow while the GDP per capita falls means that we are getting poorer even as the economy grows. Too much immigration will cause this which means immigration is not a magic bullet. Second, the global population is due to stabilize which means we are going to have to learn to develop an economy that grows without population growth. The sooner we learn to do that the better. Lastly, for anyone who claims to care about CO2 immigration should be a huge problem because more people mean more emissions which makes and reduction targets even more impossible to meet.

[Argus]

Our economic model is based on growth, and with a low birthrate and aging population we look at immigration to maintain that growth. I see the first two of your issues as intertwined. Maybe it is time to rethink our economic models.

The problem with immigration as a growth engine is it requires we be very careful about who we're bringing in. We should carefully analyze how many would be best, and what professions, skills and abilities would best help Canada grow. We should know what our target is for this expensive program, and have guideposts to let us see if we are meeting those targets. That is not being done. In fact, the latest moves by the government are designed to put more emphasis on Family class immigrants (where skills and education are not important) and elderly immigrants, who will not contribute to growth.

[taxme]

Our economic model is based on growth, and with a low birthrate and aging population we look at immigration to maintain that growth. I see the first two of your issues as intertwined. Maybe it is time to rethink our economic models.

I read sometime many years back that as many people that die in Canada every year, they were replaced by new births in that same year. This was stated by an ex-immigration Minister himself. I cannot remember his name right now. This whole immigration policy of trying to make people believe that immigration is the solution to our aging problem is ridiculous. All we keep appearing to be doing is bringing in more new immigrants, 300,00 - 350,000 a year, which are adding to our costs of trying to run a country and keeping our social and medical systems intact. No one can tell me that bringing in all those people into Canada is good for Canada. With close to 2 million Canadians unemployed where is the common sense and logic to all of this? But try to get politicians to quit with their emotionalism and foolishness and political correctness and try to get them to think and use a bit more common sense and logic seems to always be just an exercise in futility. They allow the global elite and their media to influence them. Sad.

[taxme]

Immigration: Immigration is a big problem. If, as you say, our immigration policy is costing the taxpayer's of Canada over $20 billion a year, what the hell is wrong with our politicians? Have they all gone mad? How can any politician in their right minds sit back and say nothing about this huge amount of tax dollars that is being wasted on immigration? We need a moratorium on immigration for at least five maybe ten years until we can get those 2 million Canadians back to work. And with all that money being blown on new immigrants, that money could be better spent on encouraging our own people to have more children. We won't need to import new immigrants, just produce more new Canadian babies at home. We just have to make it easy for Canadians to have more children, and I am sure they would. And with that $20 billion that is lost on immigration you cannot convince me that this would be a waste of time, effort and tax dollars to try it at home. We just have to get off our butts and demand this from our politicians.

Works for me.

Healthcare: Again immigration is the problem. The more immigrants that enter this country the more cost to our healthcare system, and the long lines that we have to wait in to see a doctor or have an operation if needed. and most of those long lineups consist of some new immigrants that get to jump the line if something goes wrong with them and they need to see a doctor or need an operation right away. We bring in old immigrants that never contributed a dime and therefore cannot afford to pay for an operation, and the costs will no doubt fall on the Canadian taxpayer to foot the bill and again may have to wait in line for their turn. It's become beyond stupid in this country how things are done just because our politicians want to give the impression that Canadians are kind and gentle and want to help the rest of the world. For me Canada is what it is all about, not the rest of the world. Let the rest of the world solve their own problems, and not make me pay for it with my tax dollars. A line in the sand has to be drawn sometime.

Aboriginals:Enough of this poor Indian nonsense. They have had plenty of time and tax dollars being thrown at them to be millionaires today. Because they took all the tax dollars that were given to them and blew it tells me that there is really nothing you can do for them. They need to get off the taxpayer's backs and start getting their stuff together and quit with the whining and moaning about their plight. My gawd, how many more years do we have to go before we say enough already? We cannot continue to keep them on the dole any longer. Times are getting tough for all of us, and I as a native born and raised in this country, I say enough already. We cannot continue to pay and keep trying to feel guilty for what was done to the Indians in the past. The taxpayer's that are alive today had nothing to do with the problems Indians face today, and this should be made clear to them. If a Canadian couple can find someway of getting a down payment on an expensive new house today, what is stopping Indians from getting off their lands and getting out there and do the same thing? But as long as we keep kissing their behinds they never will move their butts. Enough already. Stop it.

Edited May 30, 2016 by Charles Anthony
deleted [Opening Post]

[Topaz]

taxme, have u ever watched documentary about how the non-natives treat the First Nation? I watch one center around Winnipeg, and the white community wanted nothing to do with them, No white man will hire them and I believe the treatment of the FN from non-natives depends on what province one lives in. Many non-natives feel about the FN as they do about other Canadian on welfare. As far as health care, that is a provincial matter and some are good at it and some aren't.

[Army Guy]

These 3 big issues have been plaguing Canada for some time now, and will probably never really get tackled....shit we can't even get one bill on assisted dying passed with out the entire house falling apart, one elbow to the tit, and everyone losses their mind...hard to take these 3 circus parties serious....and yet we as citizens are content....time to drop all 3 of them.....

[cybercoma]

Yeah, army guy....immigrants and aboriginals are a plague on Canada.

[Army Guy]

Yeah, army guy....immigrants and aboriginals are a plague on Canada.

So your saying they are not large issues here in Canada. our nation spends over 27 bil on immigration each year should be on the scale some where.....where do you place this issue....

Aboriginals land claims total in the trillions, not to mention all the other issues that aboriginals community face....let me guess you've brushed them aside as well.....

[Guest]

Yeah, army guy....immigrants and aboriginals are a plague on Canada.

I think he meant the issues, not the groups. I don't know about immigrants, (being one myself, I'm not too pissed off at much) but I'm sure most aboriginals would agree with him. I don't think many of them consider the issues solved.

Edited May 31, 2016 by bcsapper

[Army Guy]

I think he meant the issues, not the groups. I don't know about immigrants, (being one myself, I'm not too pissed off at much) but I'm sure most aboriginals would agree with him. I don't think many of them consider the issues solved.

Thanks BCsapper, I guess coma forgot to wear his glasses....

[herples]

These 3 big issues have been plaguing Canada for some time now, and will probably never really get tackled....shit we can't even get one bill on assisted dying passed with out the entire house falling apart, one elbow to the tit, and everyone losses their mind...hard to take these 3 circus parties serious....and yet we as citizens are content....time to drop all 3 of them.....

Parties matter more than the people unfortunately.

[overthere]

The bigger and biggest issue is the economy, present and future. Wish and hope as much as we want, being diverse and resourceful just does not pay the ever increasing burden of the social contract we all have come to think of as a birthright.

This country has lost its focus on how to actually achieve societal goals that ironically all of us agree are important.

[?Impact]

The bigger and biggest issue is the economy, present and future. Wish and hope as much as we want, being diverse and resourceful just does not pay the ever increasing burden of the social contract we all have come to think of as a birthright.

This country has lost its focus on how to actually achieve societal goals that ironically all of us agree are important.

The economy has to work for all people. Remember the economy is just an artificial construct, we need to shape it benefit all.

[Argus]

The bigger and biggest issue is the economy, present and future. Wish and hope as much as we want, being diverse and resourceful just does not pay the ever increasing burden of the social contract we all have come to think of as a birthright.

This country has lost its focus on how to actually achieve societal goals that ironically all of us agree are important.

These are all important components of the economy. Bringing in the right number and mix of immigrants will either help or hurt the economy, and if done wrong, would require increasing taxation, which again impedes the economy. Having a large, and growing group of people who contribute nothing to the economy, but instead are a drag on the economy through the billions which have to be spent to keep them in house and food is also an important consideration. The fewer people working, the weaker an economy. Health care costs are growing so fast they're set to outweigh all other spending for many provinces, yet we're getting huge delays in treatment, which means people can't work, and are facing a major challenge from an aging population we are doing little or nothing to prepare for.

[Argus]

Parties matter more than the people unfortunately.

I think the problem is that tackling any of these presents enormous political danger, and the benefits of successfully resolving them are not immediately and obviously apparent. It could take years for the benefits to be shown. Since cowardice seems to be an ingrained cultural value for politicians, they're all backing away and looking for other, less difficult challenges to address.

[overthere]

These are all important components of the economy. Bringing in the right number and mix of immigrants will either help or hurt the economy, and if done wrong, would require increasing taxation, which again impedes the economy. Having a large, and growing group of people who contribute nothing to the economy, but instead are a drag on the economy through the billions which have to be spent to keep them in house and food is also an important consideration. The fewer people working, the weaker an economy. Health care costs are growing so fast they're set to outweigh all other spending for many provinces, yet we're getting huge delays in treatment, which means people can't work, and are facing a major challenge from an aging population we are doing little or nothing to prepare for.

Yep, there are many elements to the economy. Bromides and platitudes and empty promises from our leaders don't buy anything that matters, except votes. I want leadership that tells me straight up: we are realistically going to have revenue of $XXX dollars this year, because these YYY things will happen..... We need to fund all these govt priorities, and we are going top live within our means. Now, Canada, lets discuss those priorities within that context.

There is a reason we waste so much time on the details of social issues. It is an easy way to avoid discussion of things that matter more in the larger scheme. People don't want to talk about money and our future, our realistic future and how we can actually get there. They want to talk about an MPs sore tit.

I know, it will never happen but a man can dream.

[cybercoma]

I think he meant the issues, not the groups. I don't know about immigrants, (being one myself, I'm not too pissed off at much) but I'm sure most aboriginals would agree with him. I don't think many of them consider the issues solved.

The issues aren't solved, but characterizing them as a plague on the nation is insulting.

[Army Guy]

The issues aren't solved, but characterizing them as a plague on the nation is insulting.

Your taking the word plague out of context...It was not my intention to say these issues where a plague on the nation....

My intention was "these issues have Plagued the nation for many years".....Perhaps a poor choice of words, everyone else got it except you.... but our nation has "struggled" with these issues for a long time....

[cybercoma]

It's not about you, but your choice of words speaks to the dominant narrative that dogs these issues and is perhaps a clue as to why they're so difficult to resolve.

[GostHacked]

The media has a lot to do with what things we see as important and what we discuss among ourselves. The petty things and inconsequential issues are put in the spotlight while other important things are shoved to the back where no one will notice.

[Army Guy]

It's not about you, but your choice of words speaks to the dominant narrative that dogs these issues and is perhaps a clue as to why they're so difficult to resolve.

No, but you made it about me, by calling me out on it...when perhaps instead of all this song and dance you could have asked for an explanation instead you feign to be insulted.....when you knew exactly what I meant. I thought it was very clear.

That being said it was not my intention to degrade the importance of these issues, "which our nation has Struggled to resolve"

We pay these MP's a king ransom to make critical decisions for our nation and our sake and all three parties have shown they are not up to the task, and instead play childish games at our expense.