bush_cheney2004 Posted May 15, 2016 Report Share Posted May 15, 2016 (edited) This needed to be done, if only for the sake of balance and fairness, so let's discuss Palestinian "war crimes"...in general...and for specific incidents over the past several generations. There is no shortage of such "war crimes" so it should be easy to come up with examples. If this topic survives, I would encourage discussion about the strategies employed by several official and unofficial Palestinian organizations that have resulted in crimes against the peace, crimes against humanity, murder, kidnapping, torture, sexual assault, child soldiers, destruction of property, etc. It is interesting to note that Palestinian organizations are reluctant to seek ICJ indictments against Israel: In this Arabic conversation (with English subtitles) Palestinian Envoy to the UN Human Rights Council, Ibrahim Khreisheh, tells his interviewer why the Palestinian Authority can't go to the ICJ, the International Court of Justice to sue Israel for Crimes against Humanity.His reason?He explains how it is the Palestinians who are committing crimes against humanity, not Israel. https://youtu.be/j1SlgrarQQs So what is your most memorable (infamous) Palestinian "war crime" ? Edited May 15, 2016 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Mayers Posted May 15, 2016 Report Share Posted May 15, 2016 You ignored my suggestion. The default is already against the Palestinians by FAR and you're intention here to create some 'balance' is like a dictator complaining he/she needs to create more propaganda FOR his/her reign given some relatively trivial notice in some complaint raised against the reigning power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted May 15, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 15, 2016 You ignored my suggestion. The default is already against the Palestinians by FAR and you're intention here to create some 'balance' is like a dictator complaining he/she needs to create more propaganda FOR his/her reign given some relatively trivial notice in some complaint raised against the reigning power. Your suggestion was ludicrous...this needed to be done long before your posts ever existed. If Palestinian "war crimes" are so common as to exist by "default", then they deserve far more attention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted May 15, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 15, 2016 (edited) One of my earliest memories of Palestinian political acts and "war crimes" was the assassination of Robert F. Kennedy in 1968 at the Ambassador Hotel in Los Angeles, California, USA. This is certainly not the first, but was a very significant event for Americans and the United States as it would grow to understand and experience Palestinian "war crimes" many times thereafter. 1968 was a tough year for the USA...MLK Jr. had recently been assassinated and there were riots in the streets and upheaval on many fronts. Sirhan Sirhan added to the mix in a very American way just after midnight on June 5th: Sirhan was the first in a line of Arab terrorists that would later produce the bombers of the US Marine barracks in Beirut, American embassies in East Africa, the USS Cole and the World Trade Center in New York. "I can explain!" Sirhan cried out as he was arrested. "I did it for my country!" At the time, that seemed to be no more than the raving of what one American newspaper called "a mad man". Now that the word understands much more about the upheaval that produced Sirhan, it sounds quite different. Sirhan was not simply a "Jordanian citizen", as he was called at the time. He was an embittered Palestinian who had been born in 1944 to a Christian family in Jerusalem. During the war that broke out when he was four years old, Jewish insurgents seized his house, and his family was forced to flee. He was nearly killed in an Irgun bombing at the Damascus Gate, and witnessed other violent attacks that deeply traumatised him. As a young refugee, Sirhan attended a school where teachers exhorted students to struggle for Palestinian rights. Later his family moved to California, and he was there when Israel seized East Jerusalem and other Arab territories in the Six-Day War of 1967. He told at a friend that he believed Fatah was justified in using terror to oppose Israeli rule. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2008/jun/13/israelandthepalestinians.usa Edited May 15, 2016 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Mayers Posted May 15, 2016 Report Share Posted May 15, 2016 Your suggestion was ludicrous...this needed to be done long before your posts ever existed. If Palestinian "war crimes" are so common as to exist by "default", then they deserve far more attention. No, you require establishing what the word 'crime' is, since you or others seem contentious to the accusations against Israel for this word. Your thread won't add value that couldn't be fit in with the other but is intended to isolate (hide) the complaint by focusing on what is already a normalized view. I won't bother with this until you address the terms in a generalized thread in ethics or philosophy or to the already ongoing discussion of the last. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted May 15, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 15, 2016 (edited) No, you require establishing what the word 'crime' is, since you or others seem contentious to the accusations against Israel for this word. Your thread won't add value that couldn't be fit in with the other but is intended to isolate (hide) the complaint by focusing on what is already a normalized view. I won't bother with this until you address the terms in a generalized thread in ethics or philosophy or to the already ongoing discussion of the last. What ? This thread was created specifically to avoid conflation with the other thread that would invite the off topic/thread drift ire and wrath of the moderation team. One would expect clear focus on the topic with equal zeal and absence of distraction/derailing. This thread is all about Palestinian "war crimes"....so please contribute or just sit back and enjoy it. I don't give a crap about ethics or philosophy...too subjective. I am more interested in applied physics. Edited May 15, 2016 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted May 15, 2016 Report Share Posted May 15, 2016 (edited) These two are pretty bad. They are just examples of such attacks. They were after the kiddies. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coastal_Road_massacre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avivim_school_bus_bombing Edited May 15, 2016 by DogOnPorch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted May 15, 2016 Report Share Posted May 15, 2016 Oh....and these sorts of attacks where they were after anyone flying that day. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swissair_Flight_330 But why should I have all the fun? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted May 15, 2016 Report Share Posted May 15, 2016 (edited) But another category would be this sort of attack...granted it was during a war. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadassah_medical_convoy_massacre Doctors, nurses, wounded...g'bye. Including a volunteer "Zionist" nurse from Montreal. Edited May 15, 2016 by DogOnPorch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted May 15, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 15, 2016 Here's another very nasty one.....victim was wheelchair bound: Leon Klinghoffer was a Jewish-American appliance manufacturer who was murdered and thrown overboard by Palestinian terrorists who hijacked the cruise ship Achille Lauro in 1985. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leon_Klinghoffer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted May 15, 2016 Report Share Posted May 15, 2016 Yeah....cruise ships weren't safe, either. Nor the Olympics... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted May 15, 2016 Report Share Posted May 15, 2016 Going after the kids...like the school bus attacks, intentionally. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolphinarium_discotheque_massacre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted May 15, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 15, 2016 (edited) Yeah....cruise ships weren't safe, either. Nor the Olympics... For sure...gotta save some posts for the infamous 1972 Munich Olympics. "They're all gone" - Jim McKay (ABC Sports) http://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9HArGWgsm4 More on that later..... Edited May 15, 2016 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Guy Posted May 15, 2016 Report Share Posted May 15, 2016 (edited) I fully agree. It is time to keep score. The Israelis should have the right to take out the same number of Palestinian civilians that equate to the number of Israelis that the Palestinian terrorists have killed. To make it fair, the Palestinian terrorists should have the right to take out the same number of Israeli civilians that equate to the number of Palestinians that the Israelis have killed. OK! I am starting with the 2,000 plus Palestinians killed during the 2014 Israeli fish in the barrel shoot in Gaza and - oh yes - subtract all those Israelis killed by those wonky Palestinian rockets and add those Palestinians being killed for throwing stones but subtract those Israeli .... This looks complicated and I could use some assistance in the calculations but my initial computations indicate that the Israelis are a few thousand up in Palestinian kills and the Palestinians are due a fish in the barrel shoot in some Israeli enclave. I mean - fair is fair. Isn't it? Edited May 15, 2016 by Big Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted May 15, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 15, 2016 (edited) ....I mean - fair is fair. Isn't it? Please try to stay on topic...this thread is about Palestinian "war crimes"...not mathematics. Edited May 15, 2016 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted May 15, 2016 Report Share Posted May 15, 2016 I fully agree. It is time to keep score. The Israelis should have the right to take out the same number of Palestinian civilians that equate to the number of Israelis that the Palestinian terrorists have killed. To make it fair, the Palestinian terrorists should have the right to take out the same number of Israeli civilians that equate to the number of Palestinians that the Israelis have killed. OK! I am starting with the 2,000 plus Palestinians killed during the 2014 Israeli fish in the barrel shoot in Gaza and - oh yes - subtract all those Israelis killed by those wonky Palestinian rockets and add those Palestinians being killed for throwing stones but subtract those Israeli .... This looks complicated and I could use some assistance in the calculations but my initial computations indicate that the Israelis are a few thousand up in Palestinian kills and the Palestinians are due a fish in the barrel shoot in some Israeli enclave. I mean - fair is fair. Isn't it? Hamas employs human shields and encourages children to play soccer on mine strewn beaches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted May 15, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 15, 2016 I'm not sure how to present all the Palestinian rocket attacks on Israeli civilians over many years. Would that be considered one humongous "war crime" or lots of individual "war crimes" ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Guy Posted May 15, 2016 Report Share Posted May 15, 2016 Please try to stay on topic...this thread is about Palestinian "war crimes"...not mathematics. Are you speaking for the mods - with or without their permission? I will continue to deal with the issue of Israelis that are killed by Palestinians and Palestinians who are killed by Israelis: Now lets look at fairness. There has been Israeli infrastructure that has been destroyed by Palestinians (even those structures that the Israelis have taken from the Palestinians). To be fair, the Palestinians should have the same opportunity: How about this - The United Nations allows the Palestinians to return what Israel did to Gaza a couple of years ago. We ground the Israeli Air Force and decommission all anti aircraft artillery in Tel Aviv. We make sure the population of Tel Aviv cannot flee. Then since the Palestinians do not have an Air Force we allow the Iranian Air Force to come in on behalf of the Palestinians and have some fun and target practice on Tel Aviv and the defenceless population. See if they can take out as many civilians as the Israelis did in Gaza. That is equal and fair. Is it not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Guy Posted May 15, 2016 Report Share Posted May 15, 2016 Hamas employs human shields and encourages children to play soccer on mine strewn beaches. You are correct. They should instead be using their Air Force, Navy and well supported army. I have no idea why they are not employing their drones? At least they are not using their "final solution" - their nuclear force. The Israelis have acknowledged Hamas superiority in precise missile technology so why not just put a nuclear warhead on one of those technological marvels that they shoot into Israel? Under those conditions it is immoral, outrageous and stupid to use children as human shields while they could be employing their vast and magnificent military might. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted May 15, 2016 Report Share Posted May 15, 2016 You are correct. They should instead be using their Air Force, Navy and well supported army. I have no idea why they are not employing their drones? At least they are not using their "final solution" - their nuclear force. The Israelis have acknowledged Hamas superiority in precise missile technology so why not just put a nuclear warhead on one of those technological marvels that they shoot into Israel? Under those conditions it is immoral, outrageous and stupid to use children as human shields while they could be employing their vast and magnificent military might. Immaterial. War isn't fair and Hamas is at war with Israel. Operation Mole Cricket 19...the Arabs outnumbered the Israelis by a factor of many in their new Soviet MiGs....about 90 shot down w/o any loss on the Israeli side. It doesn't matter if the Arabs have aircraft...they still lose every-time they attack Israel. . https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mole_Cricket_19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted May 15, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 15, 2016 A Palestinian "war crimes" discussion would not be complete without acknowledging and crediting the "Father of Modern Terrorism"...the late Yassir Arafat. Let's review his career highlights...and astounding body of work, even for a terrorist leader. http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_article=795&x_context=7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted May 15, 2016 Report Share Posted May 15, 2016 (edited) A Palestinian "war crimes" discussion would not be complete without acknowledging and crediting the "Father of Modern Terrorism"...the late Yassir Arafat. Let's review his career highlights...and astounding body of work, even for a terrorist leader. http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_article=795&x_context=7 Yes, the Mufti's nephew. He was an Egyptian... This would be another example of the Palestinians deliberately targeting children https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiryat_Shmona_massacre Arafat was in charge. Edited May 16, 2016 by DogOnPorch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted May 16, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 16, 2016 There were so many Palestinian "war crimes" during Arafat's terrorism tenure, different groups (e.g. Hamas, Fatah/Al Aqsa Brigade, etc.) would fight over credit for all the attacks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted May 16, 2016 Report Share Posted May 16, 2016 (edited) There were so many Palestinian "war crimes" during Arafat's terrorism tenure, different groups (e.g. Hamas, Fatah/Al Aqsa Brigade, etc.) would fight over credit for all the attacks. Or perhaps Egyptian war crimes. The man was an Egyptian....neat trick for a "Palestinian". But that's the rub. Nationalism only suits the Arabs when it suits... Edited May 16, 2016 by DogOnPorch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted May 16, 2016 Author Report Share Posted May 16, 2016 The Palestinian Authority still pays "salaries" to imprisoned terrorists and perpetrators of "war crimes". Donor nations providing Palestinian aid payments have objected to this use of their funding. Abbas confirms main charge of PMW's new report - that the PA is still paying salaries to terrorists - in meeting with Norwegian Foreign Minister http://www.palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=1005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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