Omni Posted December 10, 2017 Report Posted December 10, 2017 5 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Clinton was not impeached for sexual assaults...he was impeached for lying under oath. Perjury and obstruction actually. Did I hear a loud echo in the last year? Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 10, 2017 Report Posted December 10, 2017 10 minutes ago, Omni said: Perjury and obstruction actually. Did I hear a loud echo in the last year? per·ju·ry ˈpərj(ə)rē/ noun Law noun: perjury; plural noun: perjuries the offense of willfully telling an untruth in a court after having taken an oath or affirmation. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Omni Posted December 10, 2017 Report Posted December 10, 2017 2 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: per·ju·ry ˈpərj(ə)rē/ noun Law noun: perjury; plural noun: perjuries the offense of willfully telling an untruth in a court after having taken an oath or affirmation. You had to look it up did ya. I could have explained it to you. Quote
taxme Posted December 10, 2017 Report Posted December 10, 2017 21 hours ago, Argus said: You mean Donald Trump. Naw, Trump keeps coming up with new ways to look ridiculous, and the comedians simply reflect that. Naw, I mean the SNL crybabies. It is all just being done by a sore bunch of liberal snowflake losers and you know that. They lost the election and now all they want to do is whine and cry about it over and over and over again. Donald Trump doesn't give a chit what those crybabies think. Trump is having a filed day now that he is President and I believe he thoroughly enjoys it, especially me. At least there is one politically incorrect politician out there that enjoys pissing off snowflake crybaby liberals. Let the SNL children have their fun at their own expense. HAHAHA. Go, Trump, go. Keep kicking their liberal whiny azzes. Works for me. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 10, 2017 Report Posted December 10, 2017 5 minutes ago, Omni said: You had to look it up did ya. I could have explained it to you. It took me six months to explain Clinton's impeachment to you, as you insisted that he had not been impeached (confused on the process). Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Omni Posted December 10, 2017 Report Posted December 10, 2017 6 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: It took me six months to explain Clinton's impeachment to you, as you insisted that he had not been impeached (confused on the process). Trump may not be so lucky in the senate after the mid terms. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 10, 2017 Report Posted December 10, 2017 2 minutes ago, Omni said: Trump may not be so lucky in the senate after the mid terms. Again, no U.S. president has ever been convicted by the Senate...it requires a 2/3rds majority vote....very high threshold. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Omni Posted December 10, 2017 Report Posted December 10, 2017 1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Again, no U.S. president has ever been convicted by the Senate...it requires a 2/3rds majority vote....very high threshold. Yeah but they have never had to deal with the kind of report Mueller is likely to provide. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 10, 2017 Report Posted December 10, 2017 3 minutes ago, Omni said: Yeah but they have never had to deal with the kind of report Mueller is likely to provide. Presidents are not convicted in the Senate for Nothing-burgers. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Omni Posted December 10, 2017 Report Posted December 10, 2017 5 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Presidents are not convicted in the Senate for Nothing-burgers. As you've reiterated, they haven't been convicted in senate at all. But obstruction and emoluments are not nothing burgers are they. Quote
Argus Posted December 10, 2017 Report Posted December 10, 2017 4 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Of course...the Democrats are now the party OUT of power. They didn't care about Bill Clinton's sexual assaults when they had power. Hell, Senator Ted Kennedy KILLED a woman but remained in office for decades. You keep bringing that up for some reason. I'll agree his behavior was deplorable, even for young men who we expect to be idiots. It cost him the presidency. He was never able to win the nomination because of the character flaw that revealed. On the other hand, the Republicans nominated Donald Trump despite his admitted sexual assaults, adultery, bankruptcies, draft dodging, and dark hints of connections with organized crime and fraud. They stand foursquare behind him, too. As do you. So you can bitch about Democratic morals in the last century if you like, but they never put up a man as completely lacking in morality and character as Trump for their presidential candidate nor ever rallied around an accused child molesting judge who had been fired for defecating on the constitution - twice. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 10, 2017 Report Posted December 10, 2017 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Argus said: ...On the other hand, the Republicans nominated Donald Trump despite his admitted sexual assaults, adultery, bankruptcies, draft dodging, and dark hints of connections with organized crime and fraud. They stand foursquare behind him, too. As do you. So you can bitch about Democratic morals in the last century if you like, but they never put up a man as completely lacking in morality and character as Trump for their presidential candidate nor ever rallied around an accused child molesting judge who had been fired for defecating on the constitution - twice. Again, I refer you to President Bill Clinton for many of the same fine character attributes, most of which are not illegal and/or never resulted in any convictions. The only requirement to be U.S. president is natural born citizenship and 35 years of age. Political parties are free to nominate whomever they please, and voters are free to vote on state ballots. Quote You keep bringing that up for some reason. I'll agree his behavior was deplorable, even for young men who we expect to be idiots. It cost him the presidency. He was never able to win the nomination because of the character flaw that revealed. Kennedy was ELECTED many times after the vehicular homicide and delay in reporting the incident, with full party support. Edited December 10, 2017 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Argus Posted December 10, 2017 Report Posted December 10, 2017 39 minutes ago, Omni said: Trump may not be so lucky in the senate after the mid terms. Not going to happen. There aren't enough Republican seats up for re-election to give the Democrats enough numbers to impeach Trump. Trump said once he could shoot someone in Times Square and get away with it. He's right. The Republican party lays supine before him. No matter what he does, they will support him. A few will make mouth noises but even those will bend to the will of their corporate owners and vote as he wants. The party which used to be about traditional conservatism and fiscal restraint is now under the twin control of rabid far rightists who cater to white supremacists and religious fanatics, and corporate donors who buy and pay for their electoral campaigns. It will take a crushing series of defeats which allow the Democrats to put their own people into the Supreme court and roll back the unrestrained use of money by billionaires and corporations before the Republican Party can hope to be reformed. First you need to take their corporate money and money from super PACs away, then you need to get rid of the gerrymandering. Once that's done you can have some hope of the old Republican party resurfacing, but not before. Another thing a Democrat House and president can do is restore the Fairness Doctrine and have the FCC police it. The removal of the Fairness Doctrine in 1987 allowed for the rise of FOX news and its ilk, and helped divide the US into separate camps, each getting their news slanted in different directions. The Equal Time rule needs to be expanded, as well, to include surrogates and to go all year long and not just in elections. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted December 10, 2017 Report Posted December 10, 2017 2 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Again, I refer you to President Bill Clinton for many of the same fine character attributes, most of which are not illegal and/or never resulted in any convictions. The difference is none of that was known when he was elected, and very little known - other than his adultery with Monica Lewinsky, during his time in office. ALL of it was known about Trump before you guys ever nominated him. 2 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Kennedy was ELECTED many times after the vehicular homicide and delay in reporting the incident, with full party support. He wasn't convicted of vehicular homicide, but of leaving the scene of an accident. He claims he tried to rescue her and failed. After that, it really didn't matter if he went to the closest house and called for help. She was dead. No one ever offered up any evidence to the contrary. And Kennedy is a fabled name in Massachusetts, as you well know. It still cost him a certain nomination for president. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Omni Posted December 10, 2017 Report Posted December 10, 2017 6 minutes ago, Argus said: Not going to happen. There aren't enough Republican seats up for re-election to give the Democrats enough numbers to impeach Trump. Trump said once he could shoot someone in Times Square and get away with it. He's right. The Republican party lays supine before him. No matter what he does, they will support him. A few will make mouth noises but even those will bend to the will of their corporate owners and vote as he wants. The party which used to be about traditional conservatism and fiscal restraint is now under the twin control of rabid far rightists who cater to white supremacists and religious fanatics, and corporate donors who buy and pay for their electoral campaigns. It will take a crushing series of defeats which allow the Democrats to put their own people into the Supreme court and roll back the unrestrained use of money by billionaires and corporations before the Republican Party can hope to be reformed. First you need to take their corporate money and money from super PACs away, then you need to get rid of the gerrymandering. Once that's done you can have some hope of the old Republican party resurfacing, but not before. Another thing a Democrat House and president can do is restore the Fairness Doctrine and have the FCC police it. The removal of the Fairness Doctrine in 1987 allowed for the rise of FOX news and its ilk, and helped divide the US into separate camps, each getting their news slanted in different directions. The Equal Time rule needs to be expanded, as well, to include surrogates and to go all year long and not just in elections. The democrats have a good chance to take back the senate while the house is a little more doubtful, but still do able. And in any case there is the concept that, given the current Trump approval ratings, and assuming they don't get any better, the Repubs. may think it's time to throw him under the bus as 2020 approaches. Quote
Argus Posted December 10, 2017 Report Posted December 10, 2017 1 minute ago, Omni said: The democrats have a good chance to take back the senate while the house is a little more doubtful, but still do able. They won't get 60% of the senate so there won't be an impeachment. 1 minute ago, Omni said: And in any case there is the concept that, given the current Trump approval ratings, and assuming they don't get any better, the Repubs. may think it's time to throw him under the bus as 2020 approaches. And you think things will be much better under Mr. Whitehead? Don't mistake Pence being a more traditional politician who doesn't name call and openly lie for being a vast improvement over Trump. His colleagues used to call him Mike Dense, and he's every bit as much the pawn of corporate interests and religious fanatics as the rest. Hell, he IS a religious fanatic. The Republican party doesn't care about the deficits any more, or the military, or law and order, or education, or the environment, or much of anything else but the hot button issues of God, guns, abortion and queers. They only really care about making government as small as possible, almost like anarchists, and they and their corporate masters have made 'government' a four letter word to their rabid base, which fully embraces the concept of the less government the better, too brainless to realize that only the wealthy and corporations profit from the taxes saved. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 10, 2017 Report Posted December 10, 2017 2 minutes ago, Argus said: The difference is none of that was known when he was elected, and very little known - other than his adultery with Monica Lewinsky, during his time in office. ALL of it was known about Trump before you guys ever nominated him. Not true...Clinton already had a shady record as governor of Arkansas (sexual harassment/assault, Whitewater, etc.). And of course, Clinton also avoided the Vietnam War draft...well known before the election (Clinton defeated two decorated WW2 veterans). Quote He wasn't convicted of vehicular homicide, but of leaving the scene of an accident. He claims he tried to rescue her and failed. After that, it really didn't matter if he went to the closest house and called for help. She was dead. No one ever offered up any evidence to the contrary. And Kennedy is a fabled name in Massachusetts, as you well know. It still cost him a certain nomination for president. So what ? He was responsible for her death, likely as a drunk driver. That's why he delayed reporting the accident. Democrats supported his continued political career for partisan reasons. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 10, 2017 Report Posted December 10, 2017 1 minute ago, Argus said: They won't get 60% of the senate so there won't be an impeachment. Impeachment happens in the House...trial is in the Senate. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Omni Posted December 10, 2017 Report Posted December 10, 2017 3 minutes ago, Argus said: They won't get 60% of the senate so there won't be an impeachment. And you think things will be much better under Mr. Whitehead? Don't mistake Pence being a more traditional politician who doesn't name call and openly lie for being a vast improvement over Trump. His colleagues used to call him Mike Dense, and he's every bit as much the pawn of corporate interests and religious fanatics as the rest. Hell, he IS a religious fanatic. The Republican party doesn't care about the deficits any more, or the military, or law and order, or education, or the environment, or much of anything else but the hot button issues of God, guns, abortion and queers. They only really care about making government as small as possible, almost like anarchists, and they and their corporate masters have made 'government' a four letter word to their rabid base, which fully embraces the concept of the less government the better, too brainless to realize that only the wealthy and corporations profit from the taxes saved. i'm certainly no fan of Pence, but is that a good enough reason for Trump to be forgiven? If I was an American I'd be happy if to see at least one of Trump's campaign promises coming to fruition with regard to getting that swamp cleaned up. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 10, 2017 Report Posted December 10, 2017 1 minute ago, Omni said: i'm certainly no fan of Pence, but is that a good enough reason for Trump to be forgiven? If I was an American I'd be happy if to see at least one of Trump's campaign promises coming to fruition with regard to getting that swamp cleaned up. But you are not an American, remember ? Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Argus Posted December 10, 2017 Report Posted December 10, 2017 1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Not true...Clinton already had a shady record as governor of Arkansas (sexual harassment/assault, Whitewater, etc.). And of course, Clinton also avoided the Vietnam War draft...well known before the election (Clinton defeated two decorated WW2 veterans). Rumors. That's all any of it was, and still is. Whitewater amounted to nothing. Trump is far worse in every way, not just from the number of accusations but the breadth and depth of the things he's accused of, from his fraudulent charity to his multiple bankruptcies, to his shady dealings with organized crime and Russian oligarchs. And I'd point out the Democrats are not the party which claim to be the moral purity party, the family values party, the party of God and the bible, the party that wraps itself in the flag of military love and admiration. That's the Republicans. That makes the embrace of a sordid, morally bankrupt man like Trump all the more astonishingly hypocritical. He stands against virtually everything the Republican party has claimed for their own for the past forty years. The Democrats were supposed to be the irresponsible fiscal types with shady morals. But they were the party that cared about people. Now what have the Republicans got? No claim to moral purity, family values or fiscal conservatism, and despite their blowhard president claiming otherwise, a party devoted to the well-being of the wealthy, not the country as a whole. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted December 10, 2017 Report Posted December 10, 2017 6 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Impeachment happens in the House...trial is in the Senate. Point remains. The Democrats aren't likely to get enough votes in the House to impeach him, let alone enough votes in the Senate to win a trial. Not this election. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 10, 2017 Report Posted December 10, 2017 1 minute ago, Argus said: Rumors. That's all any of it was, and still is. Whitewater amounted to nothing. Trump is far worse in every way, not just from the number of accusations but the breadth and depth of the things he's accused of, from his fraudulent charity to his multiple bankruptcies, to his shady dealings with organized crime and Russian oligarchs. Not rumors....Clinton used the Arkansas Highway Patrol to get more tail as governor....and settled many lawsuits to that effect. Draft dodge....fact. Bankruptcies are LEGAL ! Quote And I'd point out the Democrats are not the party which claim to be the moral purity party, the family values party, the party of God and the bible, the party that wraps itself in the flag of military love and admiration. That's the Republicans. Still is the Republicans. Learn to understand the difference between political theatre and reality. Republicans and Democrats want power over purity, same as political parties in Canada. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Omni Posted December 10, 2017 Report Posted December 10, 2017 3 minutes ago, Argus said: Point remains. The Democrats aren't likely to get enough votes in the House to impeach him, let alone enough votes in the Senate to win a trial. Not this election. There are 50 seats in the house that are deemed to be competitive. The dems. need 24 to take control. Again, I suspect it will depend a lot on how Trump behaves himself and whether he can pull his abysmal ratings back out of the pits. Quote
Argus Posted December 10, 2017 Report Posted December 10, 2017 10 minutes ago, Omni said: i'm certainly no fan of Pence, but is that a good enough reason for Trump to be forgiven? If I was an American I'd be happy if to see at least one of Trump's campaign promises coming to fruition with regard to getting that swamp cleaned up. Let me quote from a Globe and Mail piece from yesterday The liberal case for impeachment, for a quick and extraordinary end to the Trump era, also ignores the reality that the President may well represent the most grotesque face of the Republican Party but not the most insidious. Were he to be removed from power tomorrow, he would be replaced by Mike Pence, an anti-abortion, anti-immigration, anti-LGBTQ conservative who supported the Iraq War – positions broadly in line with the GOP worldview. The notion that Mr. Trump is an abscess on an otherwise morally salvageable Republican body is a fiction, designed primarily to camouflage the discomforting reality that, when it comes to everything from decimating the social safety net to waging perpetual war, the President hinders with buffoonery what his party would otherwise undertake with unfaltering resolve https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/omar-el-akkad-donald-trump-american-civil-war/article37267643/ Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
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