Zionism's influence over Western politics

[Rue]

Iran is lobbying Hilary Clinton with funds. That is not a lie. Your attempt BC Chick like Kactus' to try infer AIPAC controls the US and Hilary Clinton is a crock of lies. AIPAC does not support Clinton, Iran does, period.

Spin all you want, lie all you want, it does not change a damn thing. AIPAC does not support Clinton, Iran does. Arab lobbies exist no different that AIPAC.

Buy defauly since AIPAC does not support Clinton but Iran does, its contributions have to be larger.

Now you BC Chick finish what you started because Kactus won't. Prove the Iranian and Arab lobbies are not bigger or provide larger donations than AIPAC. I don't come on this board to prove your lies.

I am here to say AIPAC is no different in nature, size and contribution than Arab lobbies and if you have prove otherwise, put up or shut up and don't come on this board and demand I prove your false fabrications.

You accused me of being a liar, prove it, Go on prove it. You can't. You claim Iran does not have as big a lobby as AIPAC now prove it.,

Edited May 6, 2016 by Rue

[marcus]

Iran's lobby group is larger than AIPAC's

Heh.

Is there a point in responding to you any more? Your proclamations are so disconnected from reality.

[BC_chick]

Now you BC Chick finish what you started because Kactus won't. Prove the Iranian and Arab lobbies are not bigger or provide larger donations than AIPAC. I don't come on this board to prove your lies.

I have made no claims that either lobby is bigger, why would you ask me to prove that? I merely called you on a claim YOU made.

That, again, is below if you'd like to provide a source:

Rue, on 29 Apr 2016 - 12:27 PM, said:

He's well aware that Iran's lobby group is larger than AIPAC's and is funding Hilary Clinton's campaign.

Edited May 6, 2016 by BC_chick

[kactus]

Iran is lobbying Hilary Clinton with funds. That is not a lie. Your attempt BC Chick like Kactus' to try infer AIPAC controls the US and Hilary Clinton is a crock of lies. AIPAC does not support Clinton, Iran does, period.

Spin all you want, lie all you want, it does not change a damn thing. AIPAC does not support Clinton, Iran does. Arab lobbies exist no different that AIPAC.

Buy defauly since AIPAC does not support Clinton but Iran does, its contributions have to be larger.

Now you BC Chick finish what you started because Kactus won't. Prove the Iranian and Arab lobbies are not bigger or provide larger donations than AIPAC. I don't come on this board to prove your lies.

I am here to say AIPAC is no different in nature, size and contribution than Arab lobbies and if you have prove otherwise, put up or shut up and don't come on this board and demand I prove your false fabrications.

You accused me of being a liar, prove it, Go on prove it. You can't. You claim Iran does not have as big a lobby as AIPAC now prove it.,

You go and finish off what you started. It doesn't matter what you say rue so long as you can not substatiate your false claim with a proof don't expect others to take you seriously...

[BC_chick]

Rue, you're pushing the lines of acceptable forum behaviour. You make a bold and unsubstantiated claim and when asked to show your source you go on a tangent asking posters to prove things that they never even said.

I thought you're a lawyer, is this how you argue in court?

[marcus]

More on Saban, Clintons and AIPAC:

Saban has become a household name in Democratic politics, thanks to his persistent support for the Clintons. Through the years, Saban has contributed an estimated $30 million to their political campaigns and has become a close friend of the ultimate power couple. The Clintons are frequent guests at his annual Saban Forum, which meets in Washington to discuss U.S.-Israel relations.

Saban is a major donor of the American Israel Public Affairs Committee and of Friends of the Israel Defense Forces. Until recently, he was the key funder of the Israeli American Council, which was founded to organize Israeli expatriates living in the United States.

Haaretz

The Israel-Firster billionaire Haim Saban funds Democrats and the Israel-Firster billionaire Sheldon Adelson funds the Republicans. Many of these politicians know not to bite the hand that feeds them, so they will say what they are told to say about Israel.

The facts speak for themselves, Haim Saban, who has said: "I'm a one-issue guy, and my issue is Israel.", is Clinton's top financial backer.

Here is a link to Clintons' top donors. It's not from a wordpress site, it's from Washington Post and it makes no mention of any Iranians.

[bush_cheney2004]

Still waiting for posts about Zionism's control of Canadian and European politics as described in the OP. Alas, the United States must truly be "definitional".

[eyeball]

Rue, you're pushing the lines of acceptable forum behaviour. You make a bold and unsubstantiated claim and when asked to show your source you go on a tangent asking posters to prove things that they never even said.

I thought you're a lawyer, is this how you argue in court?

If Rue is typical of an Israeli it's no surprise they can't get much respect.

[Rue]

Eye your passive aggressive little snit comment is to be expected. So is the pathetic attempt of you anti Israelis to try chirp and prop the anti semitic canard that Jews control Washington and then try suggest I have to prove that.

What a crock. I have clearly proven the Arab and Iranian lobbies pay directly to Clinton and AIPAC does not and you think you can come on this forum and spin I am a liar?

Go on can one of you prove the Iranian and Arab lobbies don't have the same influence on congressmen as AIPAC? Well? You have the audacity to demand I prove AIPAC is not the myth you say it is?

Since when do I have to do anything but show what you said is a crock? Since when do I have to prove your myths? Do any of you read the drivel you throw at me? You don;t have the integrity to admit the Iran lobby and Arab lobbies exist and do the same thing as AIPAC. No not any of you.

I am here to say loud and clear your myth is a joke. Iran has more bang for the buck with Clinton than AIPAC has. I have shown how. You want to ignore it and try drag me into a name calling attack? Lol.

I will now again deal directly with your anti semitic Jews control Washington drivel:

http://www.danielpipes.org/1011/jewish-control-between-reality-and-myth

The notion of Jewish control of the United States is utter nonsense. Jews are a capable people who have, through hard-work, gained a disproportionate role in some aspects of American life. But they in no way dominate the country. Further, they could not, for Jews differ greatly among themselves; the notion of a single Jewish viewpoint organized by a single Jewish group is pure fantasy. On any topic—from education to foreign policy—they disagree vociferously and intensely among themselves.

(2) The Arab press talks about Jewish control of money, media and politics in America. Is this an undisputed fact?

No, there is no Jewish control of the media and politics in the United States. Jews do have a larger role than their 2 percent of the population might suggest, but it is far from monolithic or organized. Jews compete with each other as much or more than they cooperate—whether for business or for votes.

(3) Has the political Jewish control originated from the active role in elections as a well organised minority?

For starters, there is no "political Jewish control." For evident historical reasons, Jews have an intense interest in politics. They have had a tumultuous and sometimes terrible history: to protect themselves from future disasters, Jews in the United States and elsewhere tend to pay close attention to politics. They vote in larger percentages than almost any other element of the population. They give money to political candidates in larger amounts. They write and speak more about politics. None of this amounts to Jewish "control" of politics in the United States, but it does help explain the prominent place of Jews in American public life.

(4) What about religious and cultural alliances of American Jews with the rest of America?

In the entire history of the Jews, they have never lived in a country as securely and as successfully as in the United States today. It is a golden age. The secularism of the United States offers Jews the opportunity to purse their religion without any interference from the state. The openness of the country allows them the chance to flourish economically and express themselves intellectually. Its democratic nature permits Jews to integrate into public life. In all, Jews have become a full-fledged part of American life. They have both influenced the country and been influenced by it. In this sense, Jews cannot be distinguished from other Americans, even if they retain a distinctive set of characteristics.

(5) If there were such control, how can America liberate itself from it?
The notion of America liberating itself from Jews is absurd. Jews are full citizens of the United States with political, economic and personal rights and responsibilities precisely like any other citizens. This may be difficult for Arabs to comprehend, for the premises of American life are utterly different from those in the Middle East; as a result, Arabs in many cases simply do not understand how things work in the United States. It is key not to assume that the United States resembles Arab countries; I urge your readers not to see the United States in terms of their own experience. It takes much information and imagination to understand how this truly revolutionary country functions. Do not presume: learn. Do not project from what you know but take the time to find out how things work there. Only by such a process of investigating will Arabs come to comprehend the United States in general and specifically the role of Jews within it."

[eyeball]

It was a serious question Rue, are your arguments and your style of making them typical of people who defend Israel? If they are, that's why Israel is doomed.

[Rue]

You know when the anti Israelis have nothing to say when it's left to trying to bait me with passive aggressive name calling and trying to dictate to me what I have to prove.

Lol.

source: http://njjewishnews.com/njjn.com/092707/commMythsAndFacts.html

"What are the real secrets of the lobby's power?

AIPAC touts itself as influential and powerful, but in reality it is a flea alongside the elephantine gun, oil, defense, bank, automobile, and labor lobbies.

So why does this flea appear to some to be an elephant?

For starters it's Jewish. You needn't be paranoid to know there's an obsession in Washington with Jewish power. The Wall Street Journal for years ran a regular examination of Jewish political giving after every election; no other ethnic or interest group got such attention.

Another reason is the competition — actually, the lack of any real competition — within the Jewish community or from Arab Americans.

Other ethnic lobbies, largely ignored by the critics of the pro-Israel lobby, are active in Washington — usually with an emphasis on hurting their various enemies. That includes Greeks, Turks, Armenians, Indians, Pakistanis, Arabs, and Cubans. The latter has had the most dramatic impact on U.S. foreign policy for many decades.

There is a pro-Israel lobby and an anti-Israel lobby, but no real pro-Arab lobby.

Arab Americans are as numerous and as affluent as American Jews, but few are interested in making Hamas, Hizbullah, the PLO, or the Islamists the centerpiece of the citizen political action. It is hard to defend suicide bombers or Kassam rockets fired into Israeli towns.

Within the Jewish community, the loudest voices are on the far right and are negative. On the left, the peace camp, lacking an Arab peace partner and unable to agree on unified positions, may be much bigger, but its voice in Washington is muffled.

Money is another factor. AIPAC, a lobby and not a political action committee, is prohibited from giving campaign money or directing how it is given. Nevertheless, it has enormous influence over the PACs, many of which look to it for direction in their campaign giving, and many of whose leaders sit on the AIPAC board.

The secret of the lobby's success is fear, said a veteran Hill staffer whose boss had been on the receiving end of pressure from the lobby. "They threaten to report you to your constituents and contributors — and if that doesn't work, they'll help your opponents," he said.

That may gall Moran and others — but it's old-fashioned hardball politics, the same as that practiced by countless other interest groups and completely kosher. Want to see real retaliation? Watch what happens to pro-gun-control politicians in most parts of the country.

Fear works the other way as well. Notwithstanding the lobby's fearsome reputation, it has failed to block or even seriously challenge any arms sales to Israel's enemies for more than 20 years. The reason: the fear by AIPAC leaders that they might lose access at the Pentagon and offend the administration.

Mainstream Jewish organizations defer to AIPAC, even when they disagree, because they fear being labeled soft on Israel.

One other reason for its success is that the lobby sells fear; it is easier to rally people around the fear of terrorism and Iranian nuclear weapons than around hope for peace. When it comes to raising money, nothing succeeds like tzuris.

Moran, Stephen Walt, and John Mearsheimer include elements of truth in their critiques of the pro-Israel lobby — but they fatally damage their own credibility with reckless, inaccurate charges about the war in Iraq and persistent inaccuracies that suggest motives other than scholarship and the national interest."

[Rue]

It was a serious question Rue, are your arguments and your style of making them typical of people who defend Israel? If they are, that's why Israel is doomed.

Your passive aggressive baiting speaks for itself.

I am here to bust open the Jews control Washington myth. Your name calling, your pathetic baiting and trying to attack me personally means nothing.

You have nothing to contribute. Its why you bait. You have nothing absolutely nothing to contribute other than baiting,

[BC_chick]

Speaking of baiters, we're still waiting for a cite...

He's well aware that Iran's lobby group is larger than AIPAC's and is funding Hilary Clinton's campaign.

[eyeball]

Your passive aggressive baiting speaks for itself.

I am here to bust open the Jews control Washington myth. Your name calling, your pathetic baiting and trying to attack me personally means nothing.

You have nothing to contribute. Its why you bait. You have nothing absolutely nothing to contribute other than baiting,

I care less about who's lobbying thab how they're lobbying so again I ask are your arguments and the way you make them typical of what lobbied politicians have to put up with?

[Rue]

Source: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/style/longterm/books/chap1/jewishpower.htm

"But the reality of Jewish power and its effect on America's Middle East policy is much more complicated than the simple conspiracy theory laid out by these overwrought critics. If the equation were as simple as the Balls suggest--Jewish money and activism create Jewish clout, which creates U.S. support for Israel--then U.S. support would be fairly consistent over the five-decade period since Israel became a state.

That is not the case. Washington provided little aid and no weaponry to Israel during the new nation's first and most vulnerable decade. America's ties with Israel grew slowly during the 1960s, partly because of Jewish involvement in the Kennedy and Johnson administrations, partly because of Lyndon Johnson's admiration for Israel and its then-prime minister, Levi Eshkol.

In fact, the strong U.S.-Israel alliance as we now know it, with its huge arms sales and multibillion-dollar aid packages, commenced under Richard M. Nixon, a Republican president elected with almost no Jewish backing. Every president before him had attempted a posture of evenhandedness in the Middle East, maintaining friendship with both Israel and its sworn enemies. Nixon dropped the attempt at balance and declared Israel for the first time to be a "strategic asset" in the Cold War. On his watch, the United States replaced France as Israel's main arms supplier. American aid to Israel skyrocketed from $300 million to $2.2 billion per year, making Israel the largest recipient of U.S. foreign aid. U.S.-Israel relations became big business. That made Israel's allies important players in Washington power politics.

In the years since Nixon first engineered America's massive commitment to Israel, the Jewish lobby has grown exponentially in reputation, access, and influence. AIPAC, the Jewish community's main foreign-policy lobbying organization, has grown from a three-person office into a well-oiled organization with a staff of 150 and a budget of $15 million. Jewish membership in the U.S. Congress has tripled.

Over the last two decades, the United States has established a government office to hunt down and expel Nazi war criminals, has made Jewish emigration from the Soviet Union a central foreign-policy goal, and has overseen the exodus to freedom of ancient Jewish communities in Syria and Ethiopia. In May 1991, Washington even brokered a one-day ceasefire in the bloody Ethiopian civil war, for the sole purpose of permitting Israeli airplanes to evacuate that nation's twenty thousand Jewish tribespeople in an unprecedented twenty-four-hour airlift. And, of course, America created a Holocaust museum, a $168 million memorial to Jewish suffering in Second World War Europe, built by congressional mandate (with private money on federal land) in the midst of the Smithsonian complex on the Mall.

Did American Jewish clout create the U.S.-Israel alliance? One could as plausibly argue the opposite: that the U.S.-Israel alliance created contemporary American Jewish political power.

The real story of Jewish power is more complicated than either scenario. America under Richard Nixon moved toward Israel for its own reasons of Cold War politics and military strategy; domestic Jewish influence was only a secondary incentive.

The Jewish lobby was already in existence. It had been around for decades. Long before Nixon's presidency, it had played a leading role in reshaping the U.S. consensus on civil rights, church-state relations, immigration, and much more.

The forging of a U.S.-Israel alliance did not give birth to American Jewry's political establishment. But it thrust the Jewish establishment upward into a dizzying new political stratosphere. It transformed the Jewish community's political agenda. It forced America's most resolutely liberal constituency into an unfamiliar alliance with the mostly Gentile Cold Warriors of the national security establishment. And it made American Jewry a force on the international stage.

Other factors were working on the Jewish community at the same time, reinforcing the process of politicization and empowerment. Most important was the direct fallout of Israel's lightning victory in the Six-Day War of 1967. That victory touched off a wave of nationalist passion among Jews in America and around the world.

Across the ocean, the Six-Day War sparked an unexpected and dramatic rebirth of Jewish fervor among the 2 million Jews of the Soviet Union, who defied communist repression and broke a half-century of silence. In turn, the Soviet Jews' struggle for freedom inspired a broad-based popular movement among American Jews. And the American Jewish campaign for Soviet Jewry, in turn, reinforced the newfound coziness between the Jewish community's leaders and the American right.

The political reality of Jewish community life today is that a powerful machine has arisen in the last quarter-century to advance Jewish interests. It is far more powerful than most Jews realize, though not half so powerful as their enemies fantasize. Like any big bureaucracy, it operates within clear constraints and often makes mistakes; yet it has proved itself capable of making despots quake and halting armies in their tracks. A complex mechanism, it is incongruously made up of bodies whose very names bring a condescending smile to Jewish lips: B'nai B'rith, Hadassah, United Jewish Appeal, Anti-Defamation League. Groups like these are the engines--more precisely, the wheels in the engine--of Jewish power in America today.

If the average Jew finds all this hard to believe, so do many of the leaders who wield Jewish power. Senior officials of the organized Jewish community often seem dazed by the entire phenomenon. "The Jewish community has access today, at the local level, at the national level and the international level, to a point which my grandparents would never have imagined," says ADL national director Abraham Foxman. "They could never have imagined that their grandson would be this and can go there--and all that not because I'm a lord, not because I'm a millionaire, but because I am Abe Foxman, a Jewish official."

Many suggest that their clout, real as it seems, is based largely on an illusion. "A lot of what we're doing today," said the head of of one major Jewish agency, "is the invention of [the late German-born Zionist leader] Nahum Goldmann. He was the master illusionist. All the organizations he created--the World Jewish Congress, the Conference of Presidents--were designed to reinforce the myth of a powerful, mysterious body called world Jewry."

[Rue]

I care less about who's lobbying thab how they're lobbying so again I ask are your arguments and the way you make them typical of what lobbied politicians have to put up with?

Your continued attempts to bait are pathetic.

Edited May 6, 2016 by Rue

[kactus]

Speaking of baiters, we're still waiting for a cite...

it will take forever to get an answer from him... Reality is rue has made a claim here and everytime he is asked for citing sources for his claim he starts accusing others of things they have never said....reverse psychology

[eyeball]

At least they're short and to the point.

[BC_chick]

:lol:

[Rue]

This thread started off to recycle the ancient anti semitic thread that Jews control the West..

Its far from neww.

The depiction of anti-Semitic conspiracy theories depicting elaborate secret hierarchies of of controlling Jews has been recycled for thousands of years. Attacking the existence of Israel gives it a new life.

People like Eye will try bait me, people like Kactus and BC wil try change the subject to suggest I lied about the Iranian lobby being just as powerful as AIPAC because they are here to apologize for this thread, to support its myth.

The most recent version of the Jews control the West crap can be found with The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion, the 1903 false myth drafted by Russian secret police claiming a Jewish secret society planning world domination.

It was widely circulated and still is in the Arab world and by neo Nazis and Russian anti semites.

Automobile manufacturer Henry Ford a Nazi supporter, open admirer of Hitler and dead against FDR's getting the US into a war with Hitler further promoted this the conspiracy during the 1920s by publishing these Protocols and anti-Semitic articles in his newspapers such as The Dearborn Independent. He distributed hundreds of thousands of copies of the Protocols across the US. he published a four-volume treatise entitled The International Jew: The World's Foremost Problem. This is where the myth comes from. Its far from new.

Ford's recycling of the international Jewish conspiracy echoed Adolf Hitler's revision of it in his rise to power in the 1920's.

The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion was standard reading in German schools as they are today with Hamas, Hezbolah, the PA and in Arab League nation curriculums.

After the defeat of Nazi Germany, anti-Semitic conspiracy theories were kept alive by thousands of ex Nazis who moved to Syria, Iraq and Egypt and ran their Ministries of Communications not to mention the KGB.

TYhe myth of an international Jewish conspiracy was pumped across East Europe and the Arrab League of nations as well as amonng the neo Nazi movements, Islamic extremists, black supremacists and other racistfringe groups.

Ironically Jews were depicted as right wing banking fascists and communists as the same time.

The absurd world conspiracies they are accused of still can be seen in the Hezbollah and Hamas Charters that accuse them of a world wide conspiracy along with Masons, the Rothchilds, etc.

This canard, this blatant world conspiracy myth today is alive and well and its toxic poison is promulgated across the Islamic world, especially among Palestinian resistance movements and makes its way to this and other forums couched as criticism of Israel.

It is not an accident the founding charter of Hamas asserts the existence of a Zionist conspiracy, working internationally through secret organizations such as the Freemasons as well as the government of Israel, and cites the Protocols of the Elders of Zion as the embodiment of their plans.

All you have to do is read this bilge on this thread and othes to see how Anti-Semitic conspiracy theorists focus on Zionism and the founding of Israel, and the denying the existence or scale of the Holocaust and claiming it is a myth fabricated or exaggerated to serve Jewish interests.

The claim of th4 international conspiracy that claims Jews are secretly running the United States government in collaboration with Israel is spewed out over and over with zero proof but replete with its parrots who will try defend such crap by engaging in arguments that AIPAC advances the conspiracy and how rich Jews use their money to buy off people and Hollywood.

Like any lie if you repeat it long enough its supposed to be true but you won't find a shred of proof for it, just people like Eye trying to bait Jews and insulting Jews like me for standing up to using Israel as the pretext to spew it.

[Rue]

it will take forever to get an answer from him... Reality is rue has made a claim here and everytime he is asked for citing sources for his claim he starts accusing others of things they have never said....reverse psychology

Your baiting speaks for itself. I am here to bust open an anti semitic myth and your repeat attempts to bait me and turn this into a personal attack have done not a damn thing. There is no reverse psychology there is me answering directly and stating unequivocally, the Iranian lobby does nothing any different than AIPAC and if AIPAC was the myth you and your other pathetic parrots claim it is, it would have defeated the Iranian deal and Israel would have as people like you like to claim led the US to a war against Iran. Go on prove the Iranian lobby is smaller and less powerful than AIPAC. You claim it is prove it. Prove it.

Obama has shown vividly and blatantly how he's been the most anti semitic of US Presidents ever destroying the myth Jews control him. His open support of the Muslim Brotherhood and Muslim extremism, his creation of ISIL and getting into bed with various Muslim extremists all speaks for itself as to the idiocy of anyone attempting to suggest he was controlled by Jews. He is a blatant example of how a US President turned on Israel and was applauded for it by left wing moderates who think he ushered in peace and instead has left the world a burning inferno of civil war in the Middle East and closer to a world war then at any time.

Hilary Clinton's distancing from him is too little too late. She will get elected out of default and her foreign policy will continue his legacy of sucking up to Iran and Saudi Arabia.

Edited May 6, 2016 by Rue

[BC_chick]

Rue, I don't think you're going to get anyone to take you seriously on this thread until you concede that your claim about Iran lobby being more influential than AIPAC is not true.

If and when you do, we can move forward and discuss the content of your posts in the aftermath, but for now any legitimate point you could be making is lost in the deafening silence you've maintained in not repudiating your earlier caca.

[DogOnPorch]

The thing is....the Iran lobby represents Tehran. "Death to America" is their motto.

[eyeball]

The Ian lobby represents the Iranian government to the US government.

Ordinary civilians in both countries are not included or invited to the discussions.

Edited May 6, 2016 by eyeball

[DogOnPorch]

The Ian lobby represents the Iranian government to the US government.

Ordinary civilians in both countries are not included or invited to the discussions.

Yeah, those Death to America rallies are so poorly attended.