eyeball Posted April 26, 2016 Report Share Posted April 26, 2016 I see them flying all around me everyday. I fried pieces of one up for dinner the other night. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 26, 2016 Report Share Posted April 26, 2016 Of course there were no such things as Dinosaurs. Have you ever seen a live one? I could have used that logic on her Adam and Eve. But I was only 7. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted April 26, 2016 Report Share Posted April 26, 2016 But if not tempered by judgement and intelligence inevitably leads to a bad end. Intelligence and judgement are important when making decisions based in any ethical or ideological worldview. Even with intelligence the bad end you speak of is unavoidable without empathy. You're both right. What Argus is saying I think is that you need both heart and reason to come to "civilized" conclusions. But I think empathy is very, very important. You CANNOT make intelligent decisions/analysis regarding other humans without using empathy. Let me remind everyone that empathy and sympathy are NOT the same things. Empathy is defined as imagining yourself from another's perspective to understand their point of view. This often does lead to feelings of sympathy, but there's requirement for that. Just imagining things from the perspective of others will give you a much more complete understanding of complex social situations and issues. Quote "All generalizations are false, including this one." - Mark Twain Partisanship is a disease of the intellect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted April 26, 2016 Report Share Posted April 26, 2016 (edited) to ask myself 'what if everyone did that?' before taking an action.Except you assume that you are capable of correctly imagining the consequences of your actions. Great harm has been caused by people who construct elaborate fantasies on how their policies will impact others in the real world. For example, raising the minimum wage causes great harm to unskilled workers who are struggling to make ends meet by reducing the number of jobs and/or hours available to them. Yet despite that harm many progressives insist that raising the minimum wage is the 'ethical' thing to do because they only think of the impact on the workers lucky enough to keep their jobs and maintain their current working hours. Edited April 26, 2016 by TimG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 27, 2016 Report Share Posted April 27, 2016 Yes.... Some people do refuse to deal in reality. Your positions often highlight how one can place ideology ahead of evidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted April 27, 2016 Report Share Posted April 27, 2016 Your positions often highlight how one can place ideology ahead of evidence.By making that comment you clearly demonstrate that you have no ability to empathize with people which makes your comments on this thread quite ironic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted April 27, 2016 Report Share Posted April 27, 2016 That's a German word. Are you Prussian? A term that is still used a lot in Canada. Quote Google : Webster Griffin Tarpley, Gerald Celente, Max Keiser ohm on soundcloud.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted April 27, 2016 Report Share Posted April 27, 2016 No, I don't figure that "you" are uncivilized. I merely think that, like Galileo, "we" face a big problem to educate many other people - and I wonder how to do it. Education is a form of mandated civility. Both you and I got our civilized education via the school system. Now then we get to a point were we can disagree with the level of civility. Quote Google : Webster Griffin Tarpley, Gerald Celente, Max Keiser ohm on soundcloud.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted April 27, 2016 Report Share Posted April 27, 2016 To answer the OP....My parents first and foremost. My grandparents second. Quote Google : Webster Griffin Tarpley, Gerald Celente, Max Keiser ohm on soundcloud.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Guy Posted April 28, 2016 Report Share Posted April 28, 2016 I could have used that logic on her Adam and Eve. But I was only 7. May I assume that you were not a scholarship student at the school? I also bet that you were not encouraged to become an altar boy. As to the Catholic Church, we are currently stuck with Jorge Mario Bergoglio who,appears to have done an adequate job for the time being. It would be interesting to speculate how Pope bcsapper, if not turned off, would be doing in the top job. Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 28, 2016 Report Share Posted April 28, 2016 May I assume that you were not a scholarship student at the school? I also bet that you were not encouraged to become an altar boy. As to the Catholic Church, we are currently stuck with Jorge Mario Bergoglio who,appears to have done an adequate job for the time being. It would be interesting to speculate how Pope bcsapper, if not turned off, would be doing in the top job. They would never let me be Pope. I once dropped a bottle of pop in the Sistine Chapel. Forgiveness only goes so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Guy Posted April 28, 2016 Report Share Posted April 28, 2016 They would never let me be Pope. I once dropped a bottle of pop in the Sistine Chapel. Forgiveness only goes so far. God forgives all!!! But would the mantle of papal infallibility not assist in posting on these boards? Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 28, 2016 Report Share Posted April 28, 2016 (edited) God forgives all!!! But would the mantle of papal infallibility not assist in posting on these boards? God forgave me at the time. Assuming she exists. The Catholic Church, well, they did clean up after me. But then there was all that white smoke! I thought I'd dropped my roll up behind one of the pews, and got out of there quick, but maybe they were trying to tell me something... Edited April 28, 2016 by bcsapper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted April 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 28, 2016 (edited) What is your definition of 'civilized'?IMHO, the two requirements of any civilized society are "property rights" and "contract law". This is what we (in the West) now call: the "rule of law". Educating people to understand/respect this "rule of law" is another problem. Edited April 28, 2016 by August1991 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted April 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 28, 2016 (edited) As to the next 50 years, I have learned to listen to what people have to say, investigate their logic and reasons for their views....It took you 50 years to become "civilized"? If it takes 50 years to civilize a person, my kids/grandkids are screwed. Edited April 28, 2016 by August1991 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted April 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 28, 2016 (edited) To answer the OP, I'd say foremost my parents, they taught me right from wrong since birth. I would say my upbringing in general of course, including my grandparents too, as well as the Catholic religion & schooling I was brought up in (even though I'm an atheist now, Christian morality is the centerpiece of mine and most Western moral/ethic philosophy). Again, teaching me right from wrong. Little things in the media too that you experience as a child, like the cartoons, family sitcoms, and comic books etc, which often had moral messages in them, teaching me right from wrong. I largely agree, MG. But your form of education is dependent on parents/children, and something other than a specific type of State and a specific government in power. Edited April 28, 2016 by August1991 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted April 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 28, 2016 (edited) Education is a form of mandated civility. Both you and I got our civilized education via the school system. Now then we get to a point were we can disagree with the level of civility.GostHacked, you understand my thinking. Does Canada's school system make people civilized? Ontario? Quebec? Alberta? BC? I think so and they rate well by international standards but I wonder whether this method is sustainable. Edited April 28, 2016 by August1991 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted April 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 28, 2016 (edited) I became "civilized" when I learned not to be disrespectful of people's personal experiences. When are you going to become "civilized"? . Jacee, I respect your opinion - while disagreeing with you. What does that mean? I don't steal your stuff. And if I say something, I do it. ==== In this world, how do we teach so many people, so quickly, to be civilized? Steve Jobs got very poor people to learn how to use an iPhone.... yet UN bureaucrats for decades have wasted time... Edited April 28, 2016 by August1991 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Guy Posted April 28, 2016 Report Share Posted April 28, 2016 (edited) It took you 50 years to become "civilized"? If it takes 50 years to civilize a person, my kids/grandkids are screwed. That is my assumption but there are a few on this board who feel that I still am not civilized". Perhaps another 50 years is required. Edited April 28, 2016 by Big Guy Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted April 28, 2016 Report Share Posted April 28, 2016 In this world, how do we teach so many people, so quickly, to be civilized?Start them off in kindergarten. What they learn there should sink by the time they're 50. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted April 28, 2016 Report Share Posted April 28, 2016 Civilization and wisdom are clearly different things. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overthere Posted April 29, 2016 Report Share Posted April 29, 2016 (edited) So, whether Left or Right, what/who made you "civilized", learn about civilization? A book that you read? A job you had? Was it a teacher? A parent? When and how did you become "civilized"? When I was a young man, I was faced with a choice. Actually I had many choices, but thought of only two at the time. I could get a job, buy a Camaro on credit and start making payments on a routine Canadian life. Or I could get a series job in the bush/in mining and oilpatch camps, save money fast, and travel. I picked door number two. For nearly a decade I drifted through Africa, Europe, Central America and Asia, mostly travelling alone by preference. I don't know if it made me civilized, but it gave me perspectives I would not have come remotely close to if I'd taken the first choice. The people I met along the way changed my thinking in quite a profound way. Edited April 29, 2016 by overthere Quote Science too hard for you? Try religion! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted April 30, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2016 (edited) Start them off in kindergarten. What they learn there should sink by the time they're 50.The Soviets (and East Germans) tried your "kindergarten" solution and look what happened to the DDR and CCCP. The Roman Catholic church has a better track record; but even it is not sustainable, or even good. ===== Teaching people is hard. And we in the West, a few hundred million, face several billion ignorant heathens. Steve Jobs and his pixels are one method, but I reckon that we need more. Edited April 30, 2016 by August1991 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted April 30, 2016 Report Share Posted April 30, 2016 The Soviets (and East Germans) tried your "kindergarten" solution and look what happened to the DDR and CCCP.Where on Earth do you get these responses from, an absurdity generator?Teaching people is hard.The beauty about kindergarten is that the kids practically teach themselves.And we in the West, a few hundred million, face several billion ignorant heathens. Yeah but I bet no matter where you go everyone knows enough to know what a know-it-all looks like - something they probably figured out in kindergarten.Steve Jobs and his pixels are one method, but I reckon that we need more.Ok but I'm pretty sure kindergarten or some reasonable facsimile thereof will still be the first important step most kids on the planet take on the path towards civility. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted April 30, 2016 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2016 (edited) The beauty about kindergarten is that the kids practically teach themselves.On the contrary, kids don't teach themselves. They don't "spontaneously" invent calculus. Humans are not born with the knowledge of differential calculus embedded in their genes. My OP questions this "beauty about kindergarten" that you simply pre-suppose, assume. ====== IMHO, for each generation, across the world, we have to teach alot of children alot of stuff. How best to do this? Edited April 30, 2016 by August1991 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.