Attawapaskit Indian nation.

[jacee]

My particular beef is that the treaties were negotiated not by Canada, but by a British crown colony. Aboriginals should have a beef with Buckingham Palace, not Ottawa.

Canada accepted responsibility for the treaties at Confederation.

Renegging is not a legal option.

Renegotiating is.

Our real beef is with anyone stupid enough to NOT kick the slimey limeys to the curb and make Canada a truly independent nation,

I don't think the slur was necessary.

There are legalities and processes involved - rewriting the Constitution for example - that none of our governments so far have been willing to tackle. PTrudeau went as far as he could.

and accepting the truly idiotic idea of hundreds of nations and national governments within one country.

That's an irrelevant distraction.

Our governments have thousands of treaties and agreements with many entities. You don't think they can keep track?

.

[Bryan]

That's an irrelevant distraction.

Our governments have thousands of treaties and agreements with many entities. You don't think they can keep track?

.

They also can and do pull out of some of those agreements when they no longer make sense.

[jacee]

They also can and do pull out of some of those agreements when they no longer make sense.

Examples of treaties and agreements that Canada has pulled out of?

.

Edited May 21, 2016 by jacee

[Bryan]

Recently? Kyoto. Also, the U.N. convention to combat desertification.

Agreements with multiple foreign nations, where we were told "the future of the planet" was at stake. When the agreements no longer made fiscal sense, we appropriately pulled out.

Edited May 21, 2016 by Bryan

[jacee]

Recently? Kyoto. Also, the U.N. convention to combat desertification.

Agreements with multiple foreign nations, where we were told "the future of the planet" was at stake. When the agreements no longer made fiscal sense, we appropriately pulled out.

Canada did look pretty stupid on those, and a lot of things internationally in the Harper years.

But there were legal routes for withdrawal.

Not always so.

.

[cannuck]

Canada is (or SHOULD be) a sovereign state (we might be if Quebec had ever ratified the nonsense that Trudeau attempted). Maybe one day we will elect a government with some brains and balls (obviously, not for another four years at best) and fix what is broken

As a sovereign state, we make our own laws. What is legal is what we pass in parliament.

nations within nations are not a distraction, it is the fundamental idiocy of the situation.

[Bryan]

Canada did look pretty stupid on those, and a lot of things internationally in the Harper years.

We looked like we were the only adults in the room. As an international statesman, Harper was one of the greatest sources of pride in this country's history.

But there were legal routes for withdrawal.

Not always so.

If there was ever a justification for withdrawal, it's that the agreements were made by a completely different country.

[jacee]

We looked like we were the only adults in the room. As an international statesman, Harper was one of the greatest sources of pride in this country's history.

?

Link?

?

If there was ever a justification for withdrawal, it's that the agreements were made by a completely different country.

No, just a small and extremist portion of the country.

Back to topic:

Canada cannot unilaterally "pull out of" our treaties with Indigenous Nations.

We can, however, renegotiate treaties to implement them in mutually agreed upon ways appropriate to this era.

.

Edited May 21, 2016 by jacee

[cannuck]

Back to topic:

Canada cannot unilaterally "pull out of" our treaties with Indigenous Nations.

We can, however, renegotiate treaties to implement them in mutually agreed upon ways appropriate to this era.

Sure we can.

Help me out here: in this link you will find a list of the nations of the world. I can not find ANY of the 630 "first nations" anywhere on that list - or Quebec for that matter.

http://www.nationsonline.org/oneworld/countries_of_the_world.htm

There is only one nation: Canada. We make our own laws. We no longer belong to the UK (arguable point, I conceded). If there is some kind of deal between aboriginals and anyone else, it is (or at least SHOULD be) with the country that made such promises, not Canada. AND, if it does not suit the people of this country, we can simply legislate our way around it - if only we had the balls to do so.

In ANY conscious mind, there is no way to have 631 nations within yet another nation.

Maybe one day we can grow up and grow a pair and actually BE a country.

[jacee]

Help me out here: in this link you will find a list of the nations of the world. I can not find ANY of the 630 "first nations" anywhere on that list - or Quebec for that matter.

http://www.nationsonline.org/oneworld/countries_of_the_world.htm

Countries are geographic and political entities.

Nations are people:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation

Nation (from Latin: natio, "people, tribe, kin, genus, class, flock") is a social concept with no uncontroversial definition,[1] but that is most commonly used to designate larger groups or collectives of people with common characteristics attributed to themincluding language, traditions, customs (mores), habits (habitus), and ethnicity.

Harper surprised everybody when he declared Quebecois a "nation" of people, but in reality they always have been a distinct people.

There is only one nation: Canada. We make our own laws. We no longer belong to the UK (arguable point, I conceded). If there is some kind of deal between aboriginals and anyone else, it is (or at least SHOULD be) with the country that made such promises, not Canada. AND, if it does not suit the people of this country, we can simply legislate our way around it - if only we had the balls to do so.

Canada accepted certain responsibilities at Confederation and cannot simply legislate its way out of them.

In ANY conscious mind, there is no way to have 631 nations within yet another nation.

Canada chose to label that many physical communities as 'First NATIONS'.

However, some of them belong to the same Indigenous Nation (Cree, Mohawk, etc) of which I believe there are about 300 in Canada.

Maybe one day we can grow up and grow a pair and actually BE a country.

We are a country ... of people of many national origins around the world, and many Indigenous Nations too.

You want us all to pretend we're of British origin?

Or German?

Indian?

French?

Ukrainian?

If we're all supposed to be the same, which national origin are you demanding we all pretend to be? :-)

I'm joking of course: We can be Canadian and still have an affiliation with our group of national origin.

Do you?

.

Edited May 21, 2016 by jacee

[eyeball]

Earthling is just so much easier and to the point.

[Bryan]

Earthling is just so much easier and to the point.

Did you put that on your census?

[cannuck]

You want us all to pretend we're of British origin?

Or German?

Indian?

French?

Ukrainian?

If we're all supposed to be the same, which national origin are you demanding we all pretend to be? :-)

I'm joking of course: We can be Canadian and still have an affiliation with our group of national origin.

Do you?

.

No affiliation with any country/nation other than the one in which I was borne - Canada.

If I were to follow the precedent that has been set with aboriginals here, I would be in several countries screaming to have my ancestral property back and be compensated, educated, pampered, funded, etc. for all of the sins of their past. Which ones do you think would entertain such idiocy>?

[jacee]

No affiliation with any country/nation other than the one in which I was borne - Canada.

You may not, but lots of Canadians - even 'Old stock' Canadians - do have an affiliation with a community of people due to shared national origin, customs, etc.

Name any country or ethnicity in the world: There are Canadians celebrating those origins together, eating ethnic food, putting up ethnic decorations, wearing ethnic clothes, singing ethnic songs, doing ethnic dances ... Latvian summer solstice, Scottish Highland games, German Oktoberfest, Ukrainian festival, Festitalia, Cinqo De Mayo, Chinese New Year, St. Jean Baptiste day ...

And many many more.

No big deal. Kinda fun really, and lots of us join in.

If I were to follow the precedent that has been set with aboriginals here, I would be in several countries screaming to have my ancestral property back and be compensated, educated, pampered, funded, etc. for all of the sins of their past. Which ones do you think would entertain such idiocy>?

The ones your people have legal treaties with.

Oh ... you don't?

Then it isn't the same thing at all, is it?

Indigenous Nations didn't leave their homeland.

They made treaties to share their land and live in peace with the newcomers, treaties that are still legally valid today.

Though often violated by Canadian corporations and legislators, those treaties are upheld by our courts - the Judicial branch of government - and by the Queen:

Silver Chain of Friendship 1710-2010

This is the legal reality of Canada.

Kanata was not an empty place free for the taking.

We negotiated for the rights we have to live here:

We made legal agreements.

The treaties that allowed us to immigrate here are still to this day the legal responsibility of every Canadian.

Love it or leave it. :-)

.

Edited May 23, 2016 by jacee

[overthere]

Canada accepted certain responsibilities at Confederation and cannot simply legislate its way out of them.

No, that is not true. Canada can legislate all these things, and has done so. The Indian Act, for example, has been changed many times since 1876(not 1867). Some legal relationships are formed by the Constitution Act(s) and they too can be amended.

Canada chose to label that many physical communities as 'First NATIONS'.

Nope. The Indian Act describes and lists them as 'bands'. Some but not all have chosen to apply to be called and operate as 'First Nations'.

[nerve]

With so many hundreds of millions of taxpayer's tax dollars being poured into these reserves year after year why aren't they living in million dollars mansions by now?

OMG

First Nations comprise upwards of 10% of the population. Government spending in 250+ billion. You might ask why the other 90% of the population of Canada isn't all living in million dollar mansions seeing as even if they got 1 billion of that a year that is still 250 times more for non first nations than first nations.

You are so ignorant that first nations comprise over 10% of the population of Canada, yet are getting less than 1/250th of the spending of the government.

This while natural resources are being drawn from their lands.

Spending is tough because those reserves arn't on major traffic highways, and access is limited.

If all your food had to be flown in, you would be pennyless too.

Fact is that stuff up north costs more because it is all flown at markup ontop of low quantity retail rates. In winter sometimes they have iceroad access.

The north just isn't opened up well enough. Infrastructure only gets put in like electricity, gas, water etc.. if there is resource extraction at a high level.

People in Attawapiskat were living bundled into old diamond mine housing with pops over what the japanese do per square foot.

Its what the money goes to, not that it is going to there.

If the feds want to give people houses they need to put the money directly into houses.

Edited May 23, 2016 by nerve

[taxme]

OMG

First Nations comprise upwards of 10% of the population. Government spending in 250+ billion. You might ask why the other 90% of the population of Canada isn't all living in million dollar mansions seeing as even if they got 1 billion of that a year that is still 250 times more for non first nations than first nations.

You are so ignorant that first nations comprise over 10% of the population of Canada, yet are getting less than 1/250th of the spending of the government.

This while natural resources are being drawn from their lands.

Spending is tough because those reserves arn't on major traffic highways, and access is limited.

If all your food had to be flown in, you would be pennyless too.

Fact is that stuff up north costs more because it is all flown at markup ontop of low quantity retail rates. In winter sometimes they have iceroad access.

The north just isn't opened up well enough. Infrastructure only gets put in like electricity, gas, water etc.. if there is resource extraction at a high level.

People in Attawapiskat were living bundled into old diamond mine housing with pops over what the japanese do per square foot.

Its what the money goes to, not that it is going to there.

If the feds want to give people houses they need to put the money directly into houses.

Well, I wonder how the Indians lived and survived for thousands of years before the white man/woman came along? They seem to have done pretty good for thousands of years surviving under the harsh winters that Canada could throw at them at the time. Why now do they still have problems of not being able to get by when they already have their own lands for doing their hunting and fishing. Personally, I think that the Indians seem quite happy and have gotten use to doing their hunting and fishing at Safeway with white mans/woman's tax dollars. Come on? If new refugees or legal/illegal immigrants are suppose to be able to make it then why can't the Indians make it also? The excuses appear to be endless when it comes to Indians, and why they have to still live off the white mans/woman's tax dollars which appears to be going to happen for many more years to come.

Sure there were injustices done to Indians long ago but how long do the Canadians of today have to pay for what others did to them decades ago? I have bills to pay, and why should I have to pay for their bills also when I had nothing to do with what happened to them in the past. When are the handouts going to come to an end is what I would like to know.

[cannuck]

I have no idea where you would get such numbers. As of the last census, 1.4mm Canadians were identified as either Indian, Metis or Inuit. That was 4.3% of the total population, not 10%

The spending at INAC is over $8 bililon, not $1 billion. That is about $6,000 per capita. That is not $6,000 total, that is $6k ON TOP OF all of the other benefts from government spending from which EVERY CANADIAN including each and every aboriginal benefits already. AND, there are many, MANY other federal programmes that benefit aboriginals wildly disproportionately to other citizens. Balance that against tax revenue RECEIVED of...let me calculate... pretty much SFA.

Those natural resources belong to Canada (actually, the provinces), not some special privileged group. Read the treaties. Show me where even the damned Limeys gave any rights to aboriginals in treaties. Treaties essentially provided for fishing, hunting and territorial rights, a basic education, a stipend and not much more. Very, VERY different from the free ride that the aboriginal population takes on the taxpayer's back today.

OMG

First Nations comprise upwards of 10% of the population. Government spending in 250+ billion. You might ask why the other 90% of the population of Canada isn't all living in million dollar mansions seeing as even if they got 1 billion of that a year that is still 250 times more for non first nations than first nations.

You are so ignorant that first nations comprise over 10% of the population of Canada, yet are getting less than 1/250th of the spending of the government.

This while natural resources are being drawn from their lands.

[Scott Mayers]

As of the last census, 1.4mm Canadians were identified as either Indian, Metis or Inuit. ...

Okay, either these 1.4mm tall Canadians are just too small to see, or you are using "mm" to mean Million Million. (meaning "Trillion" here in North America) Maybe THIS is the misunderstanding? The Natives are just too 'small' to notice?

[eyeball]

Did you put that on your census?

As a matter of fact I did.

[Smoke]

As a matter of fact I did.

Unbelievable but typical leftwing thinking. They demand the census be brought back on the argument that the info is critical to the management of the country and then they put answers like that. Can you say HYPOCRITE????

[cannuck]

Okay, either these 1.4mm tall Canadians are just too small to see, or you are using "mm" to mean Million Million. (meaning "Trillion" here in North America) Maybe THIS is the misunderstanding? The Natives are just too 'small' to notice?

You caught me! Yes, it is supposed to be written MM (a corruption of Roman numerals for thousand thousand. Wow, I am using Roman crap and I`m not even Catholic.

Even at 1.4mm tall, believe me, I notice our aboriginal population - every time I give the feds more goddam tax $$$$$$$.

[eyeball]

Unbelievable but typical leftwing thinking. They demand the census be brought back on the argument that the info is critical to the management of the country and then they put answers like that. Can you say HYPOCRITE????

I see nothing wrong with fleshing out my answers. I believe and rather strongly, that if more human beings started identifying as Earthlings that the Earth would be a better place for it. Of course nation governments will recoil in horror at the prospect of losing their status and as for right-wingers...their paranoia at the prospect of having one government for Earthlings is legendary. In any case no state officials have come to haul me away and demand a retraction of my answer.

As for hypocrisy, how do you explain the usual right-wing position that the law is the law is the law and that scofflaws are the scum of the Earth while telling Canadians to ignore the census and throw it in the garbage if they get one?

Personally and despite all their bluster I suspect every last conservative is dutifully filling out their census like good law-abiding sycophants to authoritah are supposed to.

Edited May 25, 2016 by eyeball

[Smoke]

I see nothing wrong with fleshing out my answers. I believe and rather strongly, that if more human beings started identifying as Earthlings that the Earth would be a better place for it. Of course nation governments will recoil in horror at the prospect of losing their status and as for right-wingers...their paranoia at the prospect of having one government for Earthlings is legendary. In any case no state officials have come to haul me away and demand a retraction of my answer.

As for hypocrisy, how do you explain the usual right-wing position that the law is the law is the law and that scofflaws are the scum of the Earth while telling Canadians to ignore the census and throw it in the garbage if they get one?

Personally and despite all their bluster I suspect every last conservative is dutifully filling out their census like good law-abiding sycophants to authoritah are supposed to.

I know you don't see anything wrong, you're a leftwinger. "Do as I say, not as I do" has always been a staple of the left. It matters little what you believe, you were tasked with filling out a census form, and after arguing how important, in fact necessary, the census is for gaining correct information, instead you have used it to make a political statement. Good job....now they have bad information that you yourself have claimed will be disastrous to the country. Personally I would not have even filled one out, but at least I'm not a hypocrite!

And that "authoritah" that I've seen you use before may have some impact if we were in the deep south, but nobody, including conservatives talk like that here in Canada. You only make yourself look like a fool.

[eyeball]

Did you fill out yours?