Still Going to Buy the F-35, Really?

[On Guard for Thee]

What, you won't speak for him, but you'll suggest this government is partaking in a massive con job?

I said nothing about a con job.

[Derek 2.0]

Pretty hard to successfully sue someone who backs away from a product that fails to meet it's performance specs. as often as this thing.

Its not hard at all, when a company enters into a competition in good faith and looses, all after the GoC states during an election they had no intention of purchasing it.

[Derek 2.0]

I said nothing about a con job.

What you suggested amounts to exactly that, and though I'm no fan of this Government, even I wouldn't suggest they would do something so stupid.

[On Guard for Thee]

What you suggested amounts to exactly that, and though I'm no fan of this Government, even I wouldn't suggest they would do something so stupid.

Not stupid at all. If Lock Mart can't deliver what it promised, we have every right to walk away.

[overthere]

Hey, here is a win-win.

Lets pay Bombardier 8000 gazillion dollars to convert the C -Series jet into a modern fighter aircraft. We are resourceful and diverse, how hard can it be?

We'd better ask Denis Coderre what he thinks about it first. Consensus required!

[Derek 2.0]

Not stupid at all. If Lock Mart can't deliver what it promised, we have every right to walk away.

Can you explain why the previous Government never released the "winner" of their "competition", of which the F-35 was rumored to have won, going into an election........one would expect, if said findings suggested another aircraft, the current Government would have released said information to confirm their election promises and poke the Tories in the eye.........

Furthermore, the "rumors" of an initial Canadian four aircraft buy in the later half of 2018 keep surfacing.....with Andrew Coyne repeating said "rumors" just a couple of weeks ago.........and here we are today, with the GoC still a member of the JSF program, still investing in the program, and the MND and Minister of Public works refusing to state the F-35 won't replace our Hornets.......

[Derek 2.0]

Hey, here is a win-win.

Lets pay Bombardier.........

Or better yet, keep a positive relationship with an international aerospace giant that actually does business with Bombardier, and has partnered with Bombardier to enter a major US competition for the replacement of their JSTARS fleet.....

[On Guard for Thee]

Can you explain why the previous Government never released the "winner" of their "competition", of which the F-35 was rumored to have won, going into an election........one would expect, if said findings suggested another aircraft, the current Government would have released said information to confirm their election promises and poke the Tories in the eye.........

Furthermore, the "rumors" of an initial Canadian four aircraft buy in the later half of 2018 keep surfacing.....with Andrew Coyne repeating said "rumors" just a couple of weeks ago.........and here we are today, with the GoC still a member of the JSF program, still investing in the program, and the MND and Minister of Public works refusing to state the F-35 won't replace our Hornets.......

If by previous government you mean Harper, then there was no competition. The MND has simply stated his focus is to replace the F 18's through an open process.

[Derek 2.0]

If by previous government you mean Harper, then there was no competition. The MND has simply stated his focus is to replace the F 18's through an open process.

And the Prime Minister ruled out the F-35 during the election.........yet now, the Government refuses to state the F-35 won't be the Hornet replacement.

[On Guard for Thee]

And the Prime Minister ruled out the F-35 during the election.........yet now, the Government refuses to state the F-35 won't be the Hornet replacement.

If you are going to make a selection based on an open process, you have to let all the players have a shot at it.

[Derek 2.0]

If you are going to make a selection based on an open process, you have to let all the players have a shot at it.

Then you agree Trudeau made a mistake in ruling out the F-35 during the election?

[Smallc]

Then you agree Trudeau made a mistake in ruling out the F-35 during the election?

I think he did. I don't think any of the aircraft would be a problem though.

[On Guard for Thee]

Then you agree Trudeau made a mistake in ruling out the F-35 during the election?

It may have been in the sense that it would detract from the concept of an open process, however he may already know the F 35 will never make the grade based on the costs, especially of things we don't need.

[bush_cheney2004]

Then you agree Trudeau made a mistake in ruling out the F-35 during the election?

No way...it was brilliant political shuck and jive to get votes.

[Derek 2.0]

It may have been in the sense that it would detract from the concept of an open process, however he may already know the F 35 will never make the grade based on the costs, especially of things we don't need.

Well no, their own platform was far from fair, ruling out the F-35 and naming the Super Hornet as an example........that is not how one holds a fair competition.......

As to cost and industrial benefits, as asked countless times, how much involvement does Canadian industry currently have in the other aircraft? As to cost, the still not in full production F-35 is now cheaper than any Western produced aircraft absent the Super Hornet and F-16.......Cost alone, that would rule out anything from Europe.

[Derek 2.0]

No way...it was brilliant political shuck and jive to get votes.

Perhaps good politics, but bad public policy.

[On Guard for Thee]

Well no, their own platform was far from fair, ruling out the F-35 and naming the Super Hornet as an example........that is not how one holds a fair competition.......

As to cost and industrial benefits, as asked countless times, how much involvement does Canadian industry currently have in the other aircraft? As to cost, the still not in full production F-35 is now cheaper than any Western produced aircraft absent the Super Hornet and F-16.......Cost alone, that would rule out anything from Europe.

I don't think I trust your opinion on costs. The 35 remains still heading ballistic in the only way it can, through costs.

[Derek 2.0]

I don't think I trust your opinion on costs. The 35 remains still heading ballistic in the only way it can, through costs.

The current costs of the various aircraft have been cited numerous times, that is not my opinion, but fact........likewise, as cited countless times, the cost of the F-35 has declined with each new LRIP lot buy....again, not opinion, but fact.

[On Guard for Thee]

The current costs of the various aircraft have been cited numerous times, that is not my opinion, but fact........likewise, as cited countless times, the cost of the F-35 has declined with each new LRIP lot buy....again, not opinion, but fact.

And those "facts" change like the weather forecasts. How much will it cost to fix the just recently announced problems with the software that could extend the program another 4 years.

[Derek 2.0]

And those "facts" change like the weather forecasts. How much will it cost to fix the just recently announced problems with the software that could extend the program another 4 years.

What problems?

[On Guard for Thee]

What problems?

These:

http://breakingdefense.com/2016/01/operational-testers-flag-f-35-software-issues/

[On Guard for Thee]

Or this one.

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/unready-war-americas-f-35-gets-bad-report-card-15092

[Derek 2.0]

These:

http://breakingdefense.com/2016/01/operational-testers-flag-f-35-software-issues/

And? You cited the same story.....of which, its noted that the IOC for both the USAF and USN are still on track.........not confirmation of your "point" that costs are rising, nor the program will be delayed an additional four years.......

[On Guard for Thee]

And? You cited the same story.....of which, its noted that the IOC for both the USAF and USN are still on track.........not confirmation of your "point" that costs are rising, nor the program will be delayed an additional four years.......

And this hopeful time frame only takes the attempted "fix" out to when it might be ready for flight testing. Based on background, a smart man wouldn't ante up to bet for that being successful.

“Full Block 3F mission systems development and testing cannot be completed by May 2017, the date reflected in the most recent Program Office schedule, which is seven months later than the date planned after the 2012 restructure of the program. Although the program has recently acknowledged some schedule pressure and began referencing July 31, 2017, as the end of SDD flight test, that date is unrealistic as well. Instead, the program will likely not finish Block 3F development and flight testing prior to January 2018.”

[ReeferMadness]

If/when, the Russians and Chinese (or anyone else) deploys said systems, what happens to the threat matrix encompassing current fourth generation aircraft like the Super Hornet, Eurofighter, Rafale, Gripen NG etc? In other words, when current or near term stealth technology can be defeated, or even compromised, what does that mean for non-stealth aircraft.....in many cases, aircraft today that couldn't operate in the central Iraqi Air Defense grid 25 years ago.....

Oh, we can't operate in places like Iraq and get sucked into stupid US wars?

Darn! :P