Texas Leads The Way

[On Guard for Thee]

This is the "age of armed home invasions"? No one is safe! LOL

What a whacky way of looking at the world.

One problem is there is no study tat will show having a gun will stop that hoe invasion, but there is evidence that having that gun is more likely to cause harm to you or your family. Nutty gun culture is what it boils down to.

[Wilber]

Someone will have to explain to me what concealed or open carry has to do with repelling a home invasion. Also, why a handgun would be more effective at repelling a home invasion than a long gun.

[bush_cheney2004]

For the same reasons that police officers use handguns...and keep the riot (shotgun) locked in their squad. Long guns usually have a slower rate of fire and are more difficult to maneuver in close quarters. Harder to conceal as well. Still, a good case can be made for a short-barrel shotgun for fighting off home invasion zombies. "Assault rifles" are also stylish and popular.

Edited January 9, 2016 by bush_cheney2004

[Derek 2.0]

Someone will have to explain to me what concealed or open carry has to do with repelling a home invasion.

I don't know that it would, outside a third party CHL holder involving themselves in one in progress.

Also, why a handgun would be more effective at repelling a home invasion than a long gun.

A long and never ending debate.......try walking through your house at night, with the lights out, with a broom extended in front of you versus a cordless drill for example......inversely, over penetration (and liability) comes into play, as 00 buck or a foster slug from a shotgun (to say nothing about a high powered rifle round) could end up in a neighbor's house.

[Derek 2.0]

For the same reasons that police officers use handguns...and keep the riot (shotgun) locked in their squad. Long guns usually have a slower rate of fire and are more difficult to maneuver in close quarters. Harder to conceal as well. Still, a good case can be made for a short-barrel shotgun for fighting off home invasion zombies. "Assault rifles" are also stylish and popular.

Exactly, there can be arguments made fore or against any class of firearm and ammo.......just as there is a never ending debate over what constitutes the "correct" carry handgun, concealed or open.

[Wilber]

A long and never ending debate.......try walking through your house at night, with the lights out, with a broom extended in front of you versus a cordless drill for example......inversely, over penetration (and liability) comes into play, as 00 buck or a foster slug from a shotgun (to say nothing about a high powered rifle round) could end up in a neighbor's house.

You would shoot at something you couldn't identify?

[Derek 2.0]

You would shoot at something you couldn't identify?

Of course not, but if someone broke into my home well I slept, on the chance of them being armed, I wouldn't advertise my position either..........and is the reason they invented night sights, lasers and weaponslights.

[eyeball]

In Texas?

Exactly my point. Would over-taxing cause a legally armed lawfully carried out overthrow of the government?

[Derek 2.0]

Exactly my point. Would over-taxing cause a legally armed lawfully carried out overthrow of the government?

It could do......they did it before over taxation.

[Wilber]

Of course not, but if someone broke into my home well I slept, on the chance of them being armed, I wouldn't advertise my position either..........and is the reason they invented night sights, lasers and weaponslights.

Just wondering why you would be blundering around with a loaded fire arm in a dark house and how you would find and load it in the first place. Night sights, lasers and weaponslights. You must be very afraid.

[On Guard for Thee]

"Arms: The culture and credo of the gun" is a book by Canadian journalist A.J. Somerset where he talks about the "nutty" gun culture both in the US and Canada. The link is to a discussion from an episode of Ideas where the author and others provide some interesting (and scary) insights into just how nutty that culture can be, and it's relationship between gun fetishists and white supremacists.

http://www.cbc.ca/radio/popup/audio/player.html?autoPlay=true&clipIds=&mediaIds=2681533518&contentarea=radio&subsection1=radio1&subsection2=currentaffairs&subsection3=ideas&subsection4=past_episodes&contenttype=audio

[Argus]

Aye, but "who in the rainbow can draw the line where the violet tint ends and the orange tint begins? Distinctly we see the difference of the colors, but where exactly does the one first blendingly enter into the other? So with sanity and insanity." - Herman Melville - Billy Budd

It ends with some frightened moron clutching his gun and firing it at door to door salesmen and kids ringing doorbells.

[Derek 2.0]

Just wondering why you would be blundering around with a loaded fire arm in a dark house and how you would find and load it in the first place. Night sights, lasers and weaponslights. You must be very afraid.

I never said that I do or that I am.........you asked the benefits of a handgun versus a long gun......I (and bc2004) repeated a common debate among self defense proponents....I fail to see why you are attempting to make this personal with snide remarks. One thing is for certain, an adult that gets so upset, so easily and starts slinging off insults, in a discussion over the internet, shouldn't be allowed anywhere near a firearm.

[On Guard for Thee]

I never said that I do or that I am.........you asked the benefits of a handgun versus a long gun......I (and bc2004) repeated a common debate among self defense proponents....I fail to see why you are attempting to make this personal with snide remarks. One thing is for certain, an adult that gets so upset, so easily and starts slinging off insults, in a discussion over the internet, shouldn't be allowed anywhere near a firearm.

Nor I suppose should anyone who gets so upset when their argument gets refuted.

[bush_cheney2004]

It ends with some frightened moron clutching his gun and firing it at door to door salesmen and kids ringing doorbells.

Still preferred to the gun grabbers who are frightened of guns all the time. They are frightened...very, very frightened.

Now that's insane....

Edited January 9, 2016 by bush_cheney2004

[Moonlight Graham]

Not at all........and so called "gun control" has little effect on said rates of gun crime, made evident by none other than Mexico, which has rates of gun violence 5-6 times that of the United States, despite far stricter gun laws than what is found in the United States (or Canada)........

Comparing Mexico to US or Canada? Mexico is poor developing country and a cess pool for drug cartels like most of the rest of Latin America. Compare Mexico instead to the rest of Latin America, and it's immediate neighbours like Honduras, Guatemala, El Salvador, Venezuela etc.

From the study also:

"A large proportion of both [gun] homicide and suicide victims died in the southern region of the United States."

Texas leads the way!

Thanks for confirming what I already cited (from the DoJ), of which the majority of said crimes were drug related.....The statistics confirm my point quite clearly, in that the highest rates of gun violence are found among young minorities involved in drugs.

Ok? Poor people are involved in more crime (drugs included). Racial minorities are poor. What's your point? Gun violence is not just a young black drug problem. Is it exclusively young black gangs rolling into schools to trade drugs causing all these mass shootings? Racial minorities are involved in proportionally higher gun homicides, but the study says 42% of them are white.

You can't win this argument based on stats and evidence. Guns kill people. They suck. If you control for level of economic development, and just look at highly economically developed countries, compare gun ownership rates with gun homicide rates by country and there's a pretty strong correlation. Not perfect correlation every time, there's other factors in some cases. Gun culture (different perceptions and usage of guns etc.) is a factor. The US has more guns than any other country by far, not the strongest regulation, and the gun violence/deaths are the highest in the developed world by massive orders of magnitude. That's not a coincidence. All that's happened in that country is a domestic arms race leading to more violence and insecurity. When criminals know there's a high chance the liquor store clerk or the person in the nice car they want to rob might have a gun, the criminals know they need to arm themselves with guns (or more guns) to be successful. When a liquor store clerk or person in a nice car know many criminals have guns then they feel they need to be armed to protect themselves. Japan or South Korea having few guns, few people who want guns, and very low gun violence is not a coincidence. In regards to firearms, they're far more civilized than most of western civilization, and especially the US or even Canada.

Derek, you and many like you love guns and think they're badass, and you have a very strong fascination with machines of war in general. That's fine, normal for a North American male. I also think guns and jet fighters etc are badass. I watch action movies, war movies, movies with swords in it, play games like Call of Duty, read violent comics etc. But that's where those toys belong: in the safe realm of fantasy. You and people like you like playing with your badass power-fantasy killing machines in real-life, and IMO that's childish and irresponsible because of the inevitable risks that come when humans wield machines designed to kill other humans (hint: other humans get killed).

To you and the many millions of others who think as you do, I say: Grow up and join the rest of civilization. A tremendous # of people's lives will be saved because of it.

[eyeball]

"Arms: The culture and credo of the gun" is a book by Canadian journalist A.J. Somerset where he talks about the "nutty" gun culture both in the US and Canada. The link is to a discussion from an episode of Ideas where the author and others provide some interesting (and scary) insights into just how nutty that culture can be, and it's relationship between gun fetishists and white supremacists.

There's also a clear relationship between these types and the respectability they're afforded when they clash with the state. It's like a conservative privilege.

[On Guard for Thee]

There's also a clear relationship between these types and the respectability they're afforded when they clash with the state. It's like a conservative privilege.

Indeed, and as has been pointed out here already, if these kooks were anything but WASP's the issue would likely be over by now and with a very different outcome.

[Derek 2.0]

Comparing Mexico to US or Canada? Mexico is poor developing country and a cess pool for drug cartels like most of the rest of Latin America. Compare Mexico instead to the rest of Latin America, and it's immediate neighbours like Honduras, Guatemala, El Salvador, Venezuela etc.

Have you ever been to parts of the United States like Detroit or Oakland? Cess Pool is a fitting description.

Ok? Poor people are involved in more crime (drugs included). Racial minorities are poor. What's your point? Gun violence is not just a young black drug problem. Is it exclusively young black gangs rolling into schools to trade drugs causing all these mass shootings? Racial minorities are involved in proportionally higher gun homicides, but the study says 42% of them are white.

I never said it was young Black gangs exclusively causing gun violence across the United States, they just represent the highest rates of it........one could suggest if poverty and drugs were addressed wholesale, the issue of gun violence among these groups would also be reduced.

You can't win this argument based on stats and evidence.

I just did exactly that with the provided stats from the DoJ...........

To you and the many millions of others who think as you do, I say: Grow up and join the rest of civilization. A tremendous # of people's lives will be saved because of it.

My retort........the causes of violence among man predates smokeless powder........address those causes today and with that you will reduce violence.

[bush_cheney2004]

There's also a clear relationship between these types and the respectability they're afforded when they clash with the state. It's like a conservative privilege.

I doubt that...many such incidents have not ended well for the privileged "conservatives". Closer to home, denying gun rights to them would only further undermine all Americans' right to own and bear arms.

[Moonlight Graham]

My retort........the causes of violence among man predates smokeless powder........address those causes today and with that you will reduce violence.

That's true, but you'll never reduce it to nothing. It's impossible to nuke Hiroshima without having a 'little boy'.

[Derek 2.0]

That's true, but you'll never reduce it to nothing. It's impossible to nuke Hiroshima without having a 'little boy'.

The killing of Japanese people wasn't predicated on the use of Atomic weapons........no cause for war, no deaths....simple concept.

[eyeball]

I doubt that...many such incidents have not ended well for the privileged "conservatives". Closer to home, denying gun rights to them would only further undermine all Americans' right to own and bear arms.

And the closer the association between gun rights, standing one's ground against the government and who seems to be allowed more leniency when doing so will only contribute to the growing cognitive and moral dissonance undermining society's ability to think or act straight.

[bush_cheney2004]

And the closer the association between gun rights, standing one's ground against the government and who seems to be allowed more leniency when doing so will only contribute to the growing cognitive and moral dissonance undermining society's ability to think or act straight.

That's OK...it is exactly how the United States was founded..and expanded. No guns...no "society".

[eyeball]

Morality and brains didn't factor into it and that's good?

If you say so, it's your country.