Transparancy is for White people only

[Argus]

Like I said I would have been more impressed if the thread title read Transparency isn't for Governments, but Conservative supporters can't seem to discuss much these days without injecting a racial, cultural, ideological aspect to it...stands to reason the policies of party they support should reflect their base.

Or does the base reflect the party? Kind of a chicken and egg thing I guess.

Oh please. To pretend this issue can be discussed while ignoring that native bands aren't just any old government is ludicrous fantasy. To suggest mentioning the paternalistic bigotry of progressives shows other peoples fixation on race is even more laughable.

[drummindiver]

This is a bit of a tempest in a teapot at present. The legislation seems to have some shortcomings and I will reserve judgement until the legislation is revised with consultation with Indigenous communities.

Also the title of this thread is offensive.

/ignore

.

How is the title offensive Jacee?

He is just pointing out the obvious dichotomy between FN and the rest of Canada.

That fact is what is offensive, not the name of this thread.

[On Guard for Thee]

This is a bit of a tempest in a teapot at present. The legislation seems to have some shortcomings and I will reserve judgement until the legislation is revised with consultation with Indigenous communities.

Also the title of this thread is offensive.

/ignore

.

It does seem there are the usual suspects who will criticize the outcomes, before the process has even begun. And I agree it is offensive, but not all that surprising.

[PIK]

Harper actually tried to help the poor native that has no say. But now the liberals have gone back to the old days again, give more money and let the chiefs have fun. Some people will never learn.

[Wilber]

I agree that the title is offensive but it is a legitimate issue that needs to be addressed.

[drummindiver]

I agree that the title is offensive but it is a legitimate issue that needs to be addressed.

So it's a legitimate issue, but to say it aloud is offensive?

You realize how contradictory that is?

[On Guard for Thee]

Harper actually tried to help the poor native that has no say. But now the liberals have gone back to the old days again, give more money and let the chiefs have fun. Some people will never learn.

Oh, if he tried to help them so much, how come they turned out in such numbers to get rid of him that a number of first nations communities actually ran out of ballots?

[Wilber]

So it's a legitimate issue, but to say it aloud is offensive?

You realize how contradictory that is?

If you mean aboriginals, be honest about it and say so. Don't say transparency only applies to "whites".

That's what I find offensive about it.

Edited December 20, 2015 by Wilber

[jacee]

How is the title offensive Jacee?

He is just pointing out the obvious dichotomy between FN and the rest of Canada.

That fact is what is offensive, not the name of this thread.

The RoC is not all white.

Get it?

.

[WestCanMan]

Perhaps you are underestimating Trudeau as badly as you are underestimating Golden retrievers.

Soppy golden retriever 'who has never snapped in her life' fights off intruder despite being viciously punched and saves family from home invasion in Michigan

A golden retriever that was rescued a year ago from starvation in a city park returned the favor to the family by waking them up and alerting them to a downstairs fire.

Golden Retriever, Chelsea, sprang into action when a mother moose attacked her owner Ginger Wolfe’s boyfriend’s family during a hike.

Underestimating Trudeau seems to be a habit of some people, whether it's a boxing match or an election campaign. Maybe there's something more to him than "Daddy's money and Daddy's friends", hmm?

OK, so there's a 1/10,000 chance that your golden retriever will do something to protect your family dialamah. Awesome. I'll grant you one thing though, that's far better than the chances of Islam suddenly becoming a shining light for peace and understanding. Only you and JT are holding your breath waiting for that to happen.

[WestCanMan]

A while back we had a thread about this chief, whose financial compensation was revealed under the First Nations Financial Transparency laws. He received a 10% commission on an 8 million dollar land deal with the province involving reserve lands.

I can't imagine how anybody thinks that his finances should be a private matter when reserve assets are involved. If a federal or provincial official were to pocket a 10% commission on a transaction involving public assets, the public outrage would be overwhelming.

-k

BOOM GOES THE DYNAMITE!

[drummindiver]

The RoC is not all white.

Get it?

.

Ok, fair enough.

Would you prefer due to political malevolence Aboriginals unlike the RoC's leaders do not have to show any responsibility to public funds received to govern constituents?

[eyeball]

What has the Liberals allowing FNs to pad their pockets got to do with the last government?

The last government and it's supporters were particularly proud of it's claims to being the most accountable and transparent government in Canadian history and are saying that ending these sanctions say something specific about Liberals, something to do with race apparently.

Like I said the last government could have made it so that transparency was for everyone but it didn't, it just picked on one type of government to go after and ASFAIC it wasn't just a coincidence that the governments in question were native.

At least the Liberals are dropping the pretense and basically saying no governments really have to be accountable regardless of race.

[eyeball]

Whether one thinks they were or weren't is irrelevant. This new PM is enacting policy that will make things worse for First Nations, not better.

This new PM is doing what people in power always do, enact policy that makes things better for people who govern not who they govern.

[eyeball]

Oh please. To pretend this issue can be discussed while ignoring that native bands aren't just any old government is ludicrous fantasy. To suggest mentioning the paternalistic bigotry of progressives shows other peoples fixation on race is even more laughable.

I'm mentioning the lack of transparency of governments generally.

My fixation is on the governed. You need to look beyond race to see that.

[drummindiver]

The last government and it's supporters were particularly proud of it's claims to being the most accountable and transparent government in Canadian history and are saying that ending these sanctions say something specific about Liberals, something to do with race apparently.

Like I said the last government could have made it so that transparency was for everyone but it didn't, it just picked on one type of government to go after and ASFAIC it wasn't just a coincidence that the governments in question were native.

At least the Liberals are dropping the pretense and basically saying no governments really have to be accountable regardless of race.

Leaders pay cheques are public knowledge.

We even have sunshine lists for private citizens.

These can be checked by FOI.

How have they gone after only one race?

It went after FNs because they were the only ones not held accountable, and much misuse of funds was widely acknowledged.

Edited December 21, 2015 by drummindiver

[PIK]

Look the other way, is the new motto I guess. Canada is back.

[eyeball]

How have they gone after only one race?

With public shaming via the media.

It went after FNs because they were the only ones not held accountable, and much misuse of funds was widely acknowledged.

It went after them because they were an easy target.

There are no shortage of other unaccountable governments and politicians to go after.

[drummindiver]

They are an easy target.

Why?
Because for years there has been billions spent with no unaccountability so a culture has formed.

FOI is available for everyone but FNs? Needs to be changed.

If they have done nothing wrong, how can they be shamed?

Or were you referring to the chief receiving almost a million year tax free to run a band of 900? Nothing shameful there. If you extrapolated our pm's pay to what that chief made, Canadian taxpayers would be on the hook for around $36,000,000 a year. Think of the fur coats and $5000 dresses Sophie could wear.

[eyeball]

They are an easy target.

Why?

The discrepancy in power compared to the feds..

Because for years there has been billions spent with no unaccountability so a culture has formed.

That's how governments roll.

FOI is available for everyone but FNs? Needs to be changed.

I think FOI is backwards. Governments, including FNs should be requesting the freedom to keep things secret from us not the other way around.

If they have done nothing wrong, how can they be shamed?

Why is the better question.

Or were you referring to the chief receiving almost a million year tax free to run a band of 900? Nothing shameful there. If you extrapolated our pm's pay to what that chief made, Canadian taxpayers would be on the hook for around $36,000,000 a year. Think of the fur coats and $5000 dresses Sophie could wear.

I know, it's disgraceful.

Never said it wasn't.

[WestCanMan]

With public shaming via the media.

It went after them because they were an easy target.

There are no shortage of other unaccountable governments and politicians to go after.

You're making up your own reasons for the things that the gov't is doing. It's actually quite ridiculous to suspect that the whole conservative or liberal gov't agree on how prioritize every issue in the country, how to handle them, how much money is available to be spent on them.

In general, the types of issues that are ongoing in many FN areas are the types of things that warrant high-level attention. Deaths, poverty, drug addiction, etc. They are the kinds of things that can't be ignored.

The conservatives came up with a cost-effective way to ensure that there is a trickle-down effect with whatever resources are directed into areas of need. This was an extremely cost-effective solution compared to what we would usually see in Canada... Make a gov't agency, do a massive study, fund a bajillion dollars into it, sell your great new ideas to FN's and taxpayers alike, watch the money twirl away into nothingness, rinse, repeat. People need to find fault with it in order to be happy.

[capricorn]

Quote

A recent court order gives the Onion Lake Cree Nation near the Alberta/Saskatchewan border 30 days to disclose its basic financial records.

The Canadian Taxpayers Federation helped with a court application that was launched by band member Charmaine Stick in 2016.

On Saturday, CTF Prairie Director Todd MacKay told the Alberta Morning News this was a huge decision.

“Onion Lake Cree Nation is one band that has refused to provide that kind of transparency for years. The federal government is no longer enforcing the First Nations Financial Transparency Act, so that meant that band members like Charmaine Stick literally couldn’t find out what was going with their community’s money.”

http://globalnews.ca/news/3536577/court-order-gives-onion-lake-cree-nation-30-days-to-disclose-basic-financial-records/

I suppose this decision will cause many band chiefs and councils to cook the books before they too are compelled to disclose financial information to their band members.

[capricorn]

Oh, and let's not forget that the First Nations Financial Transparency Act was brought in by Harper so no doubt Trudeau and company will gag when they read that court decision.

[Rue]

On ‎2015‎-‎12‎-‎19 at 0:47 PM, Keepitsimple said:

 

That's the entire point that has seemingly swooshed over your head, hey? As you rightly point out, 95% of First Nations had no problem in complying with the Act. This is an Act that has more to do with holding the Band Chiefs/Councils accountable to band members - than it is to the government. Shovelling billions to an unaccountable few elite creates an environment rife for corruption - it wouldn't matter what colour your skin is. It's just common sense.

Your response matches your name and I think it is smack dab on.

[Rue]

On ‎2015‎-‎12‎-‎21 at 1:29 PM, drummindiver said:

They are an easy target.

Why?
Because for years there has been billions spent with no unaccountability so a culture has formed.

FOI is available for everyone but FNs? Needs to be changed.

If they have done nothing wrong, how can they be shamed?

Or were you referring to the chief receiving almost a million year tax free to run a band of 900? Nothing shameful there. If you extrapolated our pm's pay to what that chief made, Canadian taxpayers would be on the hook for around $36,000,000 a year. Think of the fur coats and $5000 dresses Sophie could wear.

With due respect your point relies on the two wrongs make a right fallacy.

The First Nations have been faced with internal corruption for many years. Trying to justify it by saying all politicians are corrupt doesn't address the issue.

If you are suggesting that all politicians are corrupt not just First Nations ones, yes.

Now the issue is how do we clean it all up. Many First Nation people want transparency, probably the majority because the money is not making it to the grass roots and everyone is afraid to say so for fear of being called anti native.

There are First Nation Chiefs democratically elected and who do an excellent job. There are others who are appointed by cliques and are nothing more than organized criminals exploiting their own people and keeping them down and out.

First Nations should be given help to open their books and ruling systems. This is not a matter of hating natives, ridiculing them-its a matter of assuring he money I s spent on the people at the grass roots. Change is coming. Within native communities the debate is spreading about how they do business not just with non natives but with themselves. Ultimately it will be the native peoples who must initiate and implement these reforms. Its an apolitical issue. It should not be turned into one that is justification to resent natives being self represented through their own governments. That is part of our constitution. The nation of nations is a set of governments within Canada that operates parallel and with the federal government. It needs reform a badly as any government does when it comes to lack of transparency, corruption, inefficiency.