SRV Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 (edited) Given the history of border issues after 911 when one of the terrorists was alleged to have entered the US via Canada, can we expect more of the same if the Republicans win the next election? They seem to be decidedly against accepting Syrian reffugees for fear of terrorists slipping in amongst the reffugees. (Edited to correct my erroneous assumption that one of the terrorists had entered via the US --thanks "On Guard for Thee") Edited December 14, 2015 by SRV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smallc Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 Given the history of border issues after 911 when one of the terrorists entered the US via Canada When they did what now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Guy Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 I suspect that the Canadians decision on refugees will impact on the way Canadians will be vetted upon entering the USA. It will appear more "filtered" but will be as useless as all the other previous vetting changes. There are thousands of miles of Canada/USA border that can be crossed without checking by foot in minutes or by boat in half an hour. Although I look forward to the Trump and Cruz giant fence built down the middle of the Great Lakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 Given the history of border issues after 911 when one of the terrorists entered the US via Canada, can we expect more of the same if the Republicans win the next election? Given the delusions more and more people seem to labour under these days? Probably. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Squid Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 Maybe we would have more border "problems"... maybe not. Would someone who wants to, and is semi-intelligent, have trouble getting across undetected? Probably not. Only the truly dumb ones try and get through a border crossing. I would cross at this spot along the border, at night, dressed like a ninja. And I would have a buddy waiting down the road to pick me up. First, I would wait for the border patrol truck to move though... I would welcome a wall... Might keep some guns and drugs out of Canada... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 I would cross at this spot along the border, at night, dressed like a ninja. And I would have a buddy waiting down the road to pick me up. First, I would wait for the border patrol truck to move though... I would welcome a wall... Might keep some guns and drugs out of Canada... ...at least until buddy gets a drone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Guy Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 (edited) Maybe we would have more border "problems"... maybe not. Would someone who wants to, and is semi-intelligent, have trouble getting across undetected? Probably not. Only the truly dumb ones try and get through a border crossing. I would cross at this spot along the border, at night, dressed like a ninja. And I would have a buddy waiting down the road to pick me up. First, I would wait for the border patrol truck to move though... I would welcome a wall... Might keep some guns and drugs out of Canada... Why a ninja? A moose would be more effective (during the off season). In border towns and cities, there are local unsupervised crossing sites where locals pass through a few times daily for work or shopping. In the West and mid West, crossing over requires stepping over a 2 foot fence. On the Great Lakes, if you cross over to the other side you are supposed to radio ahead, tell them where you are going and declare any goods. There are hundreds of boats crossing and re-crossing from private property to private property daily for work and/or shopping - a few "forgetting" to radio in. Edited December 14, 2015 by Big Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 (edited) The answer to the OP is yes, because it doesn't matter which party is running the U.S. government when it comes to border security, arrests, and deportations. It's a huge political issue in the U.S. and any candidate seen as soft on illegals and visas loses lots of votes. President Obama's administration (Democrat) has arrested and deported over 2,000,000 illegals since 2009, increased security and denied entry at border crossings, increased shared database access with Canada, and cracked down on expired visas with summons to immigration courts. Every sovereign state has the right and responsibility to control its borders regardless of the ruling party. Edited December 14, 2015 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 Given the history of border issues after 911 when one of the terrorists entered the US via Canada, can we expect more of the same if the Republicans win the next election? They seem to be decidedly against accepting Syrian reffugees for fear of terrorists slipping in amongst the reffugees. None of the 9-11 terrorists entered the US from Canada. Janet Napolitano tried to say one did, but she later corrected herself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRV Posted December 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 (edited) Hmm. I expect you all are right, whatever government gets elected will feel pressured to put more border controls and restrictions in place for PR reasons, and that these controls and restrictions will be largely ineffectual and do little or nothing to prevent anyone who is determined from crossing a very long and largely unpatrolled border. Which brings me to my next question: Will the Trudeau Liberal government make Canadian refugee policy more closely conform to that of the US in order not to diminish or otherwise inhibit cross-border Canadian trade and business with the US? Edited December 14, 2015 by SRV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Squid Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 Hmm. I expect you all are right, whatever government gets elected will feel pressured to put more border controls and restrictions in place for PR reasons, and that these controls and restrictions will be largely ineffectual and do little or nothing to prevent anyone who is determined from crossing a very long and largely unpatrolled border. Which brings me to my next question: Will the Trudeau Liberal government make Canadian refugee policy more closely conform to that of the US in order not to diminish or otherwise inhibit cross-border Canadian trade and business with the US? Why would you assume differing immigration policies are a trade problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topaz Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 Wouldn't it depend on which candidate made it to the White House? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRV Posted December 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 Wouldn't it depend on which candidate made it to the White House? I had thought that the issue would only come up with a Republican government, but earlier responders to my initial post have convinced me that the American public will demand tighter border controls and viglence regardless of which party wins the elections next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 The answer to the OP is yes, because it doesn't matter which party is running the U.S. government when it comes to border security, arrests, and deportations. It's a huge political issue in the U.S. and any candidate seen as soft on illegals and visas loses lots of votes. Emphasis on the perception because in reality the border is as soft as swiss cheese sitting in the hot sun. Hardening it to the extent politicians would like Americans to perceive it is would probably kill your economy. But perception being what it they could just blame that on the last guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRV Posted December 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 Why would you assume differing immigration policies are a trade problem? Because Canadian business is much more heavily reliant on access to the US market than vice versa, and the flow of goods and of people are closely related. I am old enough to remeber, and not yet senile enough to have forgotten some of the post 9/11 controversy. But i was happy to find this quote from a doubtlessly more credible and recent source for you: To date, we’ve only had a momentary glimpse of this idea when the failed candidate Scott Walker attempted to outdo Mr. Trump by musing about building an even more massive border wall between the U.S. and Canada; a practical impossibility but completely in line with the deepest fears of Republican voters. Unfortunately, these fears could prompt a return to the dark period after 9/11: beginning with Clinton-era UN ambassador Richard Holbrooke calling Canada “a Club Med for terrorists” and followed by more than a decade of negotiations on how people and goods would travel safely across the border – something Canadian businesses can ill afford a repeat of. ( Canada’s reputation for tolerance may fuel U.S. border anxiety, Globe and Mail, Dec. 14, 2015 ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
segnosaur Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 Why would you assume differing immigration policies are a trade problem?Its easy to imagine that, if Canada had a more liberal immigration policy than the U.S., that their government could potentially put rules in to examine cross-border traffic more carefully (e.g. to prevent the "evil" foreigners from using Canada to get to the U.S.) This might mean longer delays at border crossings as cars and trucks are checked in more detail, lest any vehicles are carrying terrorist-related people or weapons. And, delays at the border crossings can negatively impact trade. Even if the response by the americans is totally paranoid (seeing terrorists where little or no risk actually exists) it would still negatively impact us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 (edited) Emphasis on the perception because in reality the border is as soft as swiss cheese sitting in the hot sun. Hardening it to the extent politicians would like Americans to perceive it is would probably kill your economy. But perception being what it they could just blame that on the last guy. Nevertheless, U.S. border security enforcement has been upgraded significantly with agents and technology in response to real and perceived threats. Canada's Millennium Bomber (refugee) must have thought it would be easy breezy to bomb LAX....long before 9/11. It is Canada's economy that has suffered far more, as China is now the United States' #1 trading partner. Edited December 15, 2015 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 Nevertheless, U.S. border security enforcement has been upgraded significantly with agents and technology in response to real and perceived threats. Canada's Millennium Bomber (refugee) must have thought it would be easy breezy to bomb LAX....long before 9/11. It is Canada's economy that has suffered far more, as China is now the United States' #1 trading partner. Yeah ad that happened a couple of days ago, ad all to do with cheap oil. Be careful who you lie down with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 Will the Trudeau Liberal government make Canadian refugee policy more closely conform to that of the US in order not to diminish or otherwise inhibit cross-border Canadian trade and business with the US? They should but no. The self righteousness of progressives will lead him to hold his head high, and refuse to give in to American 'small mindedness', regardless of the cost to Canadians. After all, it's not like it's going to cost Trudeau anything. The US tightening of the border since 9/11 and the long waits Canadians endure is entirely the fault of our liberal immigration policy. Americans bring up Ahmed Ressam endlessly, and they have a great fear of similar people who we allow into the country with little or no background checks carting bombs across their border. Over 40% of Americans believe security and terrorism are the number one concern in the upcoming election. Given the current Liberal government's infatuation with bringing in as many refugees and immigrants from the middle east as possible, that will only harden their attitude towards their northern border. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 Why would you assume differing immigration policies are a trade problem? Trade or border? It's patently bloody obvious that the US are wary of the hundreds of thousands of middle east denizens we are allowing into Canada. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Squid Posted December 15, 2015 Report Share Posted December 15, 2015 Trade or border? It's patently bloody obvious that the US are wary of the hundreds of thousands of middle east denizens we are allowing into Canada. hundreds of thousands? Interesting figure.... The USA is so worried about Middle Eastern immigrants that they let in a million themselves. Unlike yourself, I will provide a citation for my numbers, rather than pulling them out of my ass. As of 2013, approximately 1.02 million immigrants from the Middle East and North Africa (MENA) region resided in the United States, representing 2.5 percent of the nation’s 41.3 million immigrants.http://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/middle-eastern-and-north-african-immigrants-united-states Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted December 16, 2015 Report Share Posted December 16, 2015 (edited) hundreds of thousands? Interesting figure.... The USA is so worried about Middle Eastern immigrants that they let in a million themselves. Unlike yourself, I will provide a citation for my numbers, rather than pulling them out of my ass. It doesn't matter how many immigrants THEY get. They know our standards are low and we let refugees in without any identification. They know that a high percentage of the people here are foreign born now. Edited December 16, 2015 by Argus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRV Posted December 16, 2015 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2015 Hmm. My concern is that our trade relations and dependency on access to US markets might impede our future goodwill and acceptance of reffugees, and my hope was that our desire to do the right thing and give refuge to those fleeing violence would take precedence over out desire to maintain easy access to US markets. I see from many of these posts that the desire to maintaining an open border is greater than the desire to welcome reffugees. I'm disappointed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted December 16, 2015 Report Share Posted December 16, 2015 They should but no. The self righteousness of progressives will lead him to hold his head high, and refuse to give in to American 'small mindedness', regardless of the cost to Canadians. After all, it's not like it's going to cost Trudeau anything. The US tightening of the border since 9/11 and the long waits Canadians endure is entirely the fault of our liberal immigration policy. Americans bring up Ahmed Ressam endlessly, and they have a great fear of similar people who we allow into the country with little or no background checks carting bombs across their border. Over 40% of Americans believe security and terrorism are the number one concern in the upcoming election. Given the current Liberal government's infatuation with bringing in as many refugees and immigrants from the middle east as possible, that will only harden their attitude towards their northern border. I bet you believe the 9-11 terrorists crossed the border from Canada to the US as well. Comical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted December 16, 2015 Report Share Posted December 16, 2015 I bet you believe the 9-11 terrorists crossed the border from Canada to the US as well. Comical. Doesn't matter what we believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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