Skeptical about Trudeau's commitment to climate change.

[TimG]

Except Uruguay, which has 95% renewable power. Drives Tim crazy but not crazy enough to actually learn from them.

I already explained in the other thread why a poor country with a huge amount hydro relative to its population/economy is not a relevant example. Of course, that is problem with people like you: no understanding of the complexity of the energy system and various trade offs that are necessary to keep power flowing. Edited December 14, 2015 by TimG

[-1=e^ipi]

Well the climate change issue has been solved!

A historic agreement has been signed that ensures that warming stays below 2 C.

And Trudeau says it won't have any negative economic consequences.

Guess that we can rest easy knowing everything has been solved!

[On Guard for Thee]

Well the climate change issue has been solved!

A historic agreement has been signed that ensures that warming stays below 2 C.

And Trudeau says it won't have any negative economic consequences.

Guess that we can rest easy knowing everything has been solved!

At least we can have some optimism that the naysayers are finally being crowded out and people are facing the facts of GW.

[bush_cheney2004]

....And Trudeau says it won't have any negative economic consequences.

Guess that we can rest easy knowing everything has been solved!

Sure can, as Canada's Liberal Party didn't/doesn't even have any official plans or targets. They will be able to blow off COP-21 even more easily than they ignored binding Kyoto GHG reductions.

Canada is still getting Fossil Award(s).

Edited December 14, 2015 by bush_cheney2004

[On Guard for Thee]

Sure can, as Canada's Liberal Party didn't/doesn't even have any official plans or targets. They will be able to blow off COP-21 even more easily than they ignored binding Kyoto GHG reductions.

Canada is still getting Fossil Award(s).

It was actually Harper that blew off Kyoto officially. If you are so focused on Canada at least try to get your facts together.

[Derek 2.0]

Sure can, as Canada's Liberal Party didn't/doesn't even have any official plans or targets. They will be able to blow off COP-21 even more easily than they ignored binding Kyoto GHG reductions.

And according to some scientists, to come close to some of the targets, we'd have to introduce "negative emissions"........I'll await the suggestion of a Delorean to revisit the invention of the internal combustion engine, so as to achieve said targets

[On Guard for Thee]

And according to some scientists, to come close to some of the targets, we'd have to introduce "negative emissions"........I'll await the suggestion of a Delorean to revisit the invention of the internal combustion engine, so as to achieve said targets

According to some said "scientists" global warming is not said issue. However real scientists, (about 97% of peer reviewed publishing ones) have said we have said problem to deal with. Which is why it is refreshing to have a political leader who is up to taking on the task of dealing with said problem.

[waldo]

Sure can, as Canada's Liberal Party didn't/doesn't even have any official plans or targets. They will be able to blow off COP-21 even more easily than they ignored binding Kyoto GHG reductions.

No need to worry about Obama or the U.S. Congress, as Canada's Liberal party already blew off a treaty that was actually ratified (Kyoto)

notwithstanding you have never... ever... provided a lick of information to support your continued "Liberals blew off/ignored Kyoto" theme, you know this not to be the case - yet you purposely continue in this regard... and you do it for one purpose and one purpose only! Over the years, you have dozens upon dozens of like posts. Care to finally step forward and substantiate your past and ongoing posts in this regard?

I note your most recent posts have a slight shift in that you no longer seem to include your "Canada's Kyoto FAIL" wording in the mix. Apparently, repeatedly replying to you by highlighting the most significant U.S. Kyoto FAIL has hit its mark, yes?

in any case, I will once again respond to you with a summary accounting of what the Liberal Party of Canada did do, was in the works of doing and had released plans to do... subject to the obstructionism of Stephen Harper... to ultimately have it all cast aside by Harper when he chose to dismantle everything in place/motion and opted to instead introduce his so-called "alternate made in Canada emissions reduction solution" - which, of course, was completely ignored by Harper Conservatives:

there was a monumental effort undertaken by the Liberal Party to actually get the treaty ratified by 2002... that took years of working with provinces/territories and the business world. The Liberals also established the Federal Climate Change Secretariat... and created a Climate Change Action Fund (CCAF - with $300 million commitments) to support projects and studies intended to help meet Kyoto commitments. Towards an extended reach outside the immediate federal domain, the Liberals also created 4 other funds/foundation (with a ~$300 million commitment), to address climate change as well as other issues such as air and water quality; the Green Municipal Enabling Fund, Green Municipal Investment Fund, Sustainable Development Technology Fund, and the Canadian Foundation for Climate and Atmospheric Sciences. A collective undertaking of Ministers of Energy/Environment from federal, provincial, and territorial governments, acted to create a National Climate Change Secretariat intended to manage and support a national engagement process and the development of Canada's 'National Implementation Strategy', as part of Canada's overall federal/provincial/territorial climate change response. The Liberals also enacted an Action Plan 2000 on Climate Change... along with a formal plan with target reduction measures/commitments... the plan itself was the federal contribution to the First National Climate Change Business Plan. The Liberals also released a 'Federal House-in-Order Strategy' where 11 key departments and agencies were assigned reduction targets for greenhouse gas emissions. NRCan made significant progress with its energy efficiency initiatives aimed to help reduce emissions. The Liberals also pledged an additional $1 billion for its climate change plan - while offering business/industry/consumers incentives. The Liberals also provided an ongoing series of promotional campaigns aimed to bring awareness of climate change and GHGs' as well as what individual Canadians can do to reduce energy use/emissions. The Liberals also enacted an emissions standard agreement with Canadian automakers. The Liberals also brought forward the formal Kyoto implementation plan with $10 billion pledges, target commitments and industry reduction requirements. Of course, we can't ignore the Opposition Conservative party efforts to counter Liberal Kyoto related actions/intent during the minority governing period.

so ya, considering Kyoto went into effect in 2005... and Canada's formal target/reduction period was between 2008-2012, the Liberal Party did a fair amount before the anti-Kyoto Harper came on in 2006 and proceeded to either ignore or dismantle anything done previously. And through all that lead-up time prior to 2006, it was the obstructionist Harper doing his best to undermine any progress attempted/made. This Alliance Party fundraising letter from Harper pretty much sums up that obstruction sentiment and positioning.

as for your twaddle about the current government "not having any official plans or targets", the current Liberal government of Canada, extending upon its winning election platform and repeated since the election win, intends to release a federal plan/position after meetings/consultations with Canada's provincial/territorial leaders; to begin some 90 days after the end of COP21. Unlike the previous Harper Conservative government, the newly elected Liberal government has committed to a new form of inclusive government; one intended to actually meet collectively and consult actively with Canada's provincial/territorial leaders. What a concept!

.

[Rue]

The agreement agreed to nothing. Its voluntary. There is no enforcement procedure. Its not worth sheeyit not an ounce of sheeyit or any other combustible or non combustible matter. Zilch. Da nada.

Its a feel good document, no more no less. Its another feel good exercise for those of you that giggle and get all warm seeing Armenian Christians posed as Muslims coming off planes and photo opping with your leaders.

It was crass, b.s. photo op politics. Nothing substantial was achieved. Not a damn thing.

In fact India, China and the third world are free to pollute and on top of that, not only are they free to pollute and increase their pollution but now the West will pay and subsidize their pollution and Canada is paying over 1 billion dollars to the third world so they can avoid having to stop polluting. Go read the ridiculous agreement.

Just once I would love one of you who supports what you think happened to wait and read the bloodly law you think came out of your partisan assumptions.

It takes more than Lord Justin of Trudeau and some pathetic platitudes and placing his hand on his heart and saying Canada is back to come up with change. This adoration of some air head puff pastry of a politician who is all style and no substance is not the issue. Start an I love Justin thread.

In regards to air pollution the agreement did not achieve a damn thing. Not a damn thing and I challenge someone to show me anywhere where it did anything. Please provide the clause.

Edited December 14, 2015 by Rue

[Argus]

It's called leading by example. You are setting the model for places like India and China to follow. The claim that the tar sands will make no difference on the climate is false.

Oh, really? Canada is going to lead by example? Well, let's see, Europe has been beggaring their economy for more than a decade now. That's a fine example. Asia watched, nodded thoughtfully and decided to build 500 coal fired generating plants this year. And they've got 1000 more on the drawing boards!

http://www.climatechangedispatch.com/forget-paris-asia-building-500-new-coal-power-plants-this-year-alone.html

[Argus]

Well the climate change issue has been solved!

A historic agreement has been signed that ensures that warming stays below 2 C.

And Trudeau says it won't have any negative economic consequences.

Guess that we can rest easy knowing everything has been solved!

Didn't he just pledge $2.5 billion in a giveaway to the third world? Didn't he agree to contribute to a $100 billion a year fund to give them more?

Does it have no economic consequences to tax Canadians for billions of dollars and then give that money to other countries every year?

[Smallc]

Was't the $2.5B our contribution to said $100B fund? I don't think there's more.

[Guest]

At least we can have some optimism that the naysayers are finally being crowded out and people are facing the facts of GW.

I don't think so. I think it's going to make things worse. I think everyone's going to be of the opinion that everyone else is finally taking it seriously so I can squeak a bit more emitting in.

Edited December 14, 2015 by bcsapper

[Argus]

Was't the $2.5B our contribution to said $100B fund? I don't think there's more.

The fund is a yearly thing. Why do you think so many countries are so enthusiastic about it?

At the summit, developed countries pledged to give $100b a year of clean energy funding to the developing world by 2020, a major commitment that would likely stay short of the estimated global requirements, according to a report by Reuters.

http://www.egyptoil-gas.com/news/paris-climate-change-conference-reached-historical-accord/

Edited December 14, 2015 by Argus

[Smallc]

Yes, and Canada's contribution is about $500M a year (the $2.55B). Under Harper it was $250M a year. We were already contributing.

[eyeball]

I'm a little choked that our contribution is being made by Canadian taxpayers instead of Canadian corporations who have moved so much of our manufacturing base to developing nations to start with.

It's almost like they saw this coming.

[Smallc]

I'm a little choked that our contribution is being made by Canadian taxpayers instead of Canadian corporations who have moved so much of our manufacturing base to developing nations to start with.

It's almost as if you don't know that corporations pay taxes.

[eyeball]

It's almost as if you don't know that corporations pay taxes.

It's almost as if you think you're the only one who know's anything.

I just don't think corporations pay anywhere near enough for the benefits they receive is all.

[-1=e^ipi]

At least we can have some optimism that the naysayers are finally being crowded out and people are facing the facts of GW.

Yes. The billion dollar party in Paris clearly confirms all that.

[Smallc]

It's almost as if you think you're the only one who know's anything.

I just don't think corporations pay anywhere near enough for the benefits they receive is all.

Corporations simply pass on costs to people. Making them pay more just costs you more.

[-1=e^ipi]

Sure can, as Canada's Liberal Party didn't/doesn't even have any official plans or targets.

Nah, Trudeau is above targets and plans. Feelings and sunny ways will solve everything.

I think everyone's going to be of the opinion that everyone else is finally taking it seriously so I can squeak a bit more emitting in.

Yep. Free rider problem. But acknowledging it gets in the way of warm fuzzy feelings.

[eyeball]

Corporations simply pass on costs to people. Making them pay more just costs you more.

Yes, it's ultimately quite unsustainable isn't it?

That's why I'm skeptical about anyone's commitments to climate change. We still can't face the real underlying cause.

[Guest]

Yes, it's ultimately quite unsustainable isn't it?

That's why I'm skeptical about anyone's commitments to climate change. We still can't face the real underlying cause.

Too many people?

[eyeball]

Too many people?

That's about it in a nutshell.

Not enough planets maybe?

[Guest]

That's about it in a nutshell.

Not enough planets maybe?

Lol. That's thinking outside the box.