Rona Ambrose Elected Tory Interim Leader

kimmy · November 8, 2015

Ambrose had plenty of time to prove herself in Harper's cabinet and she showed how she was willing to say anything Harper wanted her to say for a considerable sum.

"for a considerable sum"? What the hell are you alleging here?

I think in fairness to Rona Ambrose, we'll have to say she was a team player and willing to do what was needed to be on Harper's team. What she does now that she's on Rona's team remains to be seen. So far, she's indicated she's willing to play a positive role and her willingness to support the inquiry into MMIW (which Harper was dead against) is a good sign.

Like Trudeau, we'll see what she does.

When the Conservatives first formed the government in 2006, Rona was made Environment Minister. Less than a year later, she was shuffled to a lower-profile portfolio, with some disparaging comment from Harper that "Canadians expected more"... but the truth is that she had been made the face of the Harper government's "don't give a crap" attitude toward the environment ministry, and she was the one left holding the bag for public disapproval of that attitude. Since then, she has worked her way back up, but adopted a much more low-key approach.

She's saying the right things right now, but since she's the Opposition against a majority government, there's no reason for her not to be "positive" and "supportive", because there's nothing at stake. For right now, it doesn't matter if the Conservative leader is Rona Ambrose or Pauly Shore, the net result is the same. So she can go out and think about rehabilitating the Conservatives' reputation. I suspect she's astute enough to realize that the perception of the party as confrontational and insensitive and unconcerned about things like the MMIW issue is one of the major political liabilities for them, and she can go about putting a new face on the party by being "positive" and "supportive" of things like this with no political downside.

-k

notca · November 8, 2015

Rona is a smart cookie. I think she will do as well anyone could be expected considering the dissention within the party. She has to pull them all together somehow.

Regarding the fate of the Conservatives, I think world events as well as events right here in Canada will determine which party will be elected next time.

The world is so unstable now we can never be sure what will happen, the economy, terrorism, the extent of the deficit, the state of the Healthcare system, taxes, all will dictate what kind of government the people want next..

Personally I think the Liberals are going too far to the right in too big a hurry. But we shall see, shan't we? <_<

I think the Conservatives did care about the MMTW but what will an enquiry accomplish? That is my question. There doesn't seem to be any new facts to be revealed about the issue . To address what is already known about it would involve some heavy social engineering. I wonder how that would play out?

kimmy · November 8, 2015

Personally I think the Liberals are going too far to the right in too big a hurry. But we shall see, shan't we?

The Liberals? Going too far to the right? I think most people are concerned that Trudeau is taking them too far the opposite way...

I think the Conservatives did care about the MMTW but what will an enquiry accomplish? That is my question. There doesn't seem to be any new facts to be revealed about the issue . To address what is already known about it would involve some heavy social engineering. I wonder how that would play out?

The Conservatives might have cared in a generic touchy-feely sense, but they certainly didn't care in the sense of actually investigating the subject.

The question of setting the scope of the inquiry is rather key. What would actually be studied? One topic that would be at the top of the list to be investigated would be whether the police/RCMP have made adequate attempts to investigate these cases. The LAPD have a term "no humans involved", or NHI, for cases where gangsters commit crimes against other gangsters and nobody actually cares. I think there is suspicion about whether Canadian police have a similar view about missing native women. As in, if you're a police officer and some aboriginal woman is reported missing, how likely are you to suspect that she's probably just down on East Hastings Street doing drugs? Do you make a good-faith effort to investigate it even though your experience tells you there's a good chance that whatever has befallen the missing woman is probably self-inflicted?

And I think that's the real reason the Conservatives have had no interest in an inquiry into the issue. They know that police performance will be the first thing that comes under scrutiny, and with their too-cozy relationship with the law-enforcement community, they didn't want scrutiny to fall upon their friends.

-k

SpankyMcFarland · November 8, 2015

The first press conference by Ambrose was not promising. She is going to have to be a lot more media friendly than she has been. A new standard has been set by the government.

notca · November 8, 2015

The Liberals? Going too far to the right? I think most people are concerned that Trudeau is taking them too far the opposite way...

The Conservatives might have cared in a generic touchy-feely sense, but they certainly didn't care in the sense of actually investigating the subject.

The question of setting the scope of the inquiry is rather key. What would actually be studied? One topic that would be at the top of the list to be investigated would be whether the police/RCMP have made adequate attempts to investigate these cases. The LAPD have a term "no humans involved", or NHI, for cases where gangsters commit crimes against other gangsters and nobody actually cares. I think there is suspicion about whether Canadian police have a similar view about missing native women. As in, if you're a police officer and some aboriginal woman is reported missing, how likely are you to suspect that she's probably just down on East Hastings Street doing drugs? Do you make a good-faith effort to investigate it even though your experience tells you there's a good chance that whatever has befallen the missing woman is probably self-inflicted?

And I think that's the real reason the Conservatives have had no interest in an inquiry into the issue. They know that police performance will be the first thing that comes under scrutiny, and with their too-cozy relationship with the law-enforcement community, they didn't want scrutiny to fall upon their friends.

-k

Sorry, my bad! It should have read 'too far to the LEFT!

You make a good point about the RCMP but then the inquiry would be into the RCMP, wouldn't it?

There is a lot said about female abuse within the First Nations communities. I don't know about that but if it is true what can the government do about it except what they do in any case?

It will take a huge amount of cooperation between government, First Nations and the general public to effectively improve this situation. I was living in Winnipeg when Helen Betty Osborne was murdered and that case still makes me want to cry when I think about it. Attitudes around that poor girl's murder were deplorable. The nonchalance of the Mounties, the silence of the townsfolk who knew who was responsible and the leniency of the court when the arrests were finally made due only to the tenacity of one rookie Mountie who just wouldn't let it go! ( My eyes tear up just writing about it!)

I am still disgusted by the lack of attention given to the First Nations over the years. When so many concessions have been made for French Canadians, when the government goes to any length to encourage and assist 'new Canadians' surely tneeds of the real original inhabitants of Canada should have been a first priority!

Argus · November 8, 2015

The question of setting the scope of the inquiry is rather key. What would actually be studied? One topic that would be at the top of the list to be investigated would be whether the police/RCMP have made adequate attempts to investigate these cases.

Why should that be in question given the solution rate is virtually the same as for the murders of non-aboriginal women? The slightly lower solution rate for aboriginal women can be ascribed to the ones who were street people or prostitutes. It's always harder to find the villain in those cases.

The overall solve rate for female homicides in RCMP jurisdictions for 2013 and 2014 was 82%. Homicides of Aboriginal and non-Aboriginal women had similar solve rates of 81% and 83%.

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/pubs/abo-aut/mmaw-fada-eng.htm

G Huxley · November 8, 2015

"for a considerable sum"? What the hell are you alleging here?

-k

A few months ago I just googled her name and google text prediction provided 'Rona Ambrose Salary' a few million isn't bad for being Harper's shill: http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/01/19/mp-pension-most-expensive-stephen-harper_n_1216677.html

She's also among the top for government travel bills:

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/canadian-politics/taxpayers-spent-2-2-million-flying-mps-spouses-across-canada-last-year-expense-report-shows

Top-10 amounts spent on travel for designated traveller (2012-13)

Rona Ambrose (Conservative, Alberta): $45,476.45

Edited November 8, 2015 by G Huxley

Bob Macadoo · November 8, 2015

The first press conference by Ambrose was not promising. She is going to have to be a lot more media friendly than she has been. A new standard has been set by the government.

Saw her on Question Period......seems she is lobbying for a McKay comeback. [dramatized] "If there's anyone out there not part of the party/caucus (hint hintl and they feel they can run this party....come on down." "Peter's speech the other night was amazing."

kimmy · November 9, 2015

A few months ago I just googled her name and google text prediction provided 'Rona Ambrose Salary' a few million isn't bad for being Harper's shill: http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/01/19/mp-pension-most-expensive-stephen-harper_n_1216677.html

That's not her salary, Einstein. That's her expected lifetime pension payout based on the assumption that she retires in 2019 and lives to be 80 years old.

Rona's pension payout based on those assumptions is obviously higher than most MPs, on account of she's younger than most MPs, started younger than most MPs, served in Cabinet for longer than most MPs, and would be collecting pension for a lot of years if she retires in 2019 and lives to be 80.

MP salaries are set by Parliament. Cabinet, not by Harper. Cabinet ministers are also set by Parliament, not by Harper. Pension is, you guessed it, set by Parliament, not by Harper.

She hasn't even collected that money yet, it's money that would be due to her based on rules established by Parliament.

The claim that she has been awarded extra perks or money for being Harper's toady is flat out wrong, and borderline slanderous.

She's also among the top for government travel bills:

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/canadian-politics/taxpayers-spent-2-2-million-flying-mps-spouses-across-canada-last-year-expense-report-shows
Top-10 amounts spent on travel for designated traveller (2012-13)
Rona Ambrose (Conservative, Alberta): $45,476.45

I think the fact that Bob Rae and Libby Davies are right at the top of this list should be a clue to you that these expenses are not graft given by Harper for being a good little minion.

-k

G Huxley · November 9, 2015

I didn't say it was her salary. I just found that information when Google autofilled the word 'Rona Ambrose salary.'

G Huxley · November 9, 2015

"The claim that she has been awarded extra perks or money for being Harper's toady is flat out wrong,"

I didn't say that she was awarded extra perks or money. Merely that she was Harper's shill and is due a few million for her job as MP.

G Huxley · November 9, 2015

Anyway just to clarify I don't think that Harper gave her any money personally, merely that she was an over paid MP acting as Harper's mouthpiece, which incidentally applies to most of Harper's cabinet.

The thing that really irks me about Ambrose is her anti-scientific stances as health minister especially in her disregarding or shuttering of scientific studies regarding HAT and medicinal cannabis.

Edited November 9, 2015 by G Huxley

kimmy · November 9, 2015

Why should that be in question given the solution rate is virtually the same as for the murders of non-aboriginal women? The slightly lower solution rate for aboriginal women can be ascribed to the ones who were street people or prostitutes. It's always harder to find the villain in those cases.

The overall solve rate for female homicides in RCMP jurisdictions for 2013 and 2014 was 82%. Homicides of Aboriginal and non-Aboriginal women had similar solve rates of 81% and 83%.

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/pubs/abo-aut/mmaw-fada-eng.htm

Well, first off, how surprising that the RCMP would publish a report that paints themselves in a positive light.

Their communications with the public during the Dziekanski ~~murder~~ incident and the Braidwood Inquiry proved them to be pathological liars who would stoop to any depth to protect their public image, and it's a complete and utter joke that through all of the deliberate lies that were fed to both the public and the courts during that entire debacle, the only person who was held accountable for anything was Taser enthusiast Kwesi Millington, who got if I recall a $50 fine for loitering or some shit like that.

And if I recall their efforts at managing public perception of their more recent sexual harassment scandal wasn't much better. My opinion is that when it comes to addressing their own internal problems, their communications people and their managers are basically the scum of the earth, and that anything they say should be viewed as big big fake fake lies until proven true by some outside source.

But leaving that aside, and getting the question you're really asking: do the police really treat cases involving indigenous women differently from cases involving non-indigenous women, or white women?

My hunch is no, it's not because they're indigenous. My hunch is that it's not a race issue, it's a class issue.

A while back, we here in BC had the Robert Pickton murders. If you recall, Pickton was convicted of 6 murders, had charges stayed in 2 dozen more cases, and allegedly claimed to have killed 49 women.

What Pickton's victims had in common was not race-- they came from aboriginal, white, and other racial backgrounds. What they had in common was that they were all sex trade workers. They lived on the outer margins of society, and when they vanished nobody really noticed, and the police had demonstrated the same sort of "no humans involved" attitude they're accused of having in regard to the disappearances.

Former BC AG Wally Oppal led a public inquiry into the investigation, and concluded that it was painfully obvious that these disappearances were not treated with any urgency by the police. And Oppal pins that not on race, but on class: these cases were not taken seriously because they affected people on the bottom rung of society.

And I expect that's what they'll find when they launch the MMIW inquiry as well: this is a class issue, not a race issue, although those bottom rungs of society are occupied, in this country, in disproportionately large numbers by aboriginal women.

But yeah, an inquiry is coming, and the police will receive scrutiny, the same way they received scrutiny over the Robert Pickton investigation.

-k

angrypenguin · November 9, 2015

I didn't say it was her salary. I just found that information when Google autofilled the word 'Rona Ambrose salary.'

Backtracking much?

Big Guy · November 9, 2015

I wish her well. In our democratic system, the stronger the opposition then the stronger and more accountable the party in power. The tone of parliament is set by the way in which the parties interact with each other. I believe that it works best when there is opposition of philosophy but mutual respect between these "honourable" folks.

The last few parliaments reflected an actual dislike by some of the members of opposing parties and party members. That is not the history of this great country. The role of the opposition is to question and analyze the legislation and machinations of the party in power. Years ago, on the floor during question period, the different representatives would aggressively and intelligently (often with wit) question and respond to each other - and then go for lunch or dinner with those whose actions they were criticizing.

It would be pleasant to see decorum and honest discussion return to parliament.

G Huxley · November 9, 2015

Backtracking much?

No if you actually read my post carefully you will realize that is exactly what I said.

poochy · November 9, 2015

Ambrose had plenty of time to prove herself in Harper's cabinet and she showed how she was willing to say anything Harper wanted her to say for a considerable sum.

Maybe the media should pretend she's Trudeau, im sure the tone of the questions and the answers would be somewhat different. But she is a conservative, and therefore a bad person, so that won't happen.

ToadBrother · November 9, 2015

Maybe the media should pretend she's Trudeau, im sure the tone of the questions and the answers would be somewhat different. But she is a conservative, and therefore a bad person, so that won't happen.

Well not everything has changed since the election. The Tories' obsession with blaming the media for their failings is still intact.

TimG · November 9, 2015

The last few parliaments reflected an actual dislike by some of the members of opposing parties and party members. That is not the history of this great country.

That is simply a reflection of society today which has collapsed into self-re-enforcing echo chambers where members despises those that are not members of their echo chamber. It is even worse in the US.

This is the big downside of the Internet: people no longer forced to socialize with people who do not share their world views because they happen to live in the same neighborhood.

Edited November 9, 2015 by TimG

Keepitsimple · November 10, 2015

That is simply a reflection of society today which has collapsed into self-re-enforcing echo chambers where members despises those that are not members of their echo chamber. It is even worse in the US.

This is the big downside of the Internet: people no longer forced to socialize with people who do not share their world views because they happen to live in the same neighborhood.

You are wise beyond my years <_<

kimmy · November 10, 2015

That is simply a reflection of society today which has collapsed into self-re-enforcing echo chambers where members despises those that are not members of their echo chamber. It is even worse in the US.

This is the big downside of the Internet: people no longer forced to socialize with people who do not share their world views because they happen to live in the same neighborhood.

Most of our Members of Parliament are far too old to blame this on the internet.

-k

bush_cheney2004 · November 10, 2015

That is simply a reflection of society today which has collapsed into self-re-enforcing echo chambers where members despises those that are not members of their echo chamber. It is even worse in the US.

Well that's good....pointing at the U.S. when framing issues in Canada always makes it seem better. At least Ambrose hasn't gone to the U.S. for healthcare....yet!

TimG · November 10, 2015

Most of our Members of Parliament are far too old to blame this on the internet.

The Internet has created echo chambers by giving people choices and people most often choose the information sources that re-enforce their pre-conceived notions. It affects everyone who follows the media no matter what their age. This creates an environment where people outside the echo chamber are seen as aliens - if not out right evil. The lack of civility in parliament of a reflection of the broader trends in society. Edited November 10, 2015 by TimG

bush_cheney2004 · November 10, 2015

Previous civility and decorum in Parliament(s) is a myth anyway:

...Some Canadians stubbornly cling to the myth of a civil past and paradise for decorum in our House of Commons that never existed. For instance, they can never identify which of this country’s 41 Parliaments lived up to their ideal of decorum.

http://parliamentum.org/2011/10/05/the-myth-of-civility-and-decorum-in-the-british-house-of-commons/