Long Form Census

August1991 · May 7, 2016

Most people are not going to be jerks about this so the small bits of noise added by the jerks will be overwhelmed by the responses of the decent people who answer as best they can.

And all the web-dating sites have accurate information about people's weight and age.

msj, you're an accountant. Do you ever do an audit/check of your clients' claims?

Edited May 7, 2016 by August1991

msj · May 7, 2016

And all the web-dating sites have accurate information about people's weight and age.msj, you're an accountant. Do you ever do an audit/check of your clients' claims?

Nope don't have time and don't get paid for that.

Get paid for warning them though and will fire clients if I know that they are evading taxes.

I know that when I filled out the last long form census in 2006 that I was annoyed at some questions and fudged a little bit. See my "Canadian" example above.

But I think on the whole the data is useful and that in the aggregate the jerks get washed out by the overwhelming accuracy of the responses by the decent and reasonably accurate.

A person is motivated to lie on the dating site in order to get the swipe right.

And to cheat on taxes to pay less.

The benefits are not so evident with a long form census and many people do respect the law even if they disagree with it.

Edited May 7, 2016 by msj

jacee · May 7, 2016

I complete my tax form honestly in general because they already know what my numbers are. While I understand that our CRA/State tax collectors are largely incompetent in collecting taxes from a few people, they know my numbers already.

But Spanky, I'll be damned if I waste my time filling out another form for bureaucrats where I know damned well that most people just lie. The bureaucrats already know all this stuff.

And if the bureaucrats don't know, well, as I said - bureaucrats are incompetent.

In 2016, the Internet provides enough information. A lack of data is not the problem of the 21st century.

Accurate data/information will be the future problem and only a 19th century Leftist would believe that people in the 21st century answer honestly a State census.

I'm not sure what people think is so worth getting bent outta shape and lying about on the census.

Pretty simple basic stuff.

And no, "bureaucrats" can't just go get your personal data from somebody else.

Edit to add ... the short form certainly isn't difficult. Done in less than 5 minutes! :-)

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Edited May 7, 2016 by jacee

waldo · May 7, 2016

In 2016, the Internet provides enough information. A lack of data is not the problem of the 21st century.

Accurate data/information will be the future problem and only a 19th century Leftist would believe that people in the 21st century answer honestly a State census.

I completed the census... and I feel so dirty... so abused! :lol: What's the beef man? C'mon, what question(s) could you, a "Rightist", conceivably have concerns in answering?

for the earlier "time intrusion" references to spending "a half-hour to complete it"... it shouldn't take anyone that long; notwithstanding, the app provides a convenient "save/complete later" feature.

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Hydraboss · May 7, 2016

So only data obtained under duress is useful?

No, but it does make it more accurate.

Good to know. Can someone please let the Omar the Terrorist know that? Should make his payout somewhat less. I wonder if he's filling out the census...

dre · May 7, 2016

But Spanky, I'll be damned if I waste my time filling out another form for bureaucrats where I know damned well that most people just lie.

Why continue with this stupid red herring? EVERY collection of data has noise in it - that does not mean the data isn't useful, you just need to try to understand the noise in your dataset and account for it.

You are unwittingly attacking the entire concept of collecting and analyzing data... based on the fact that no data collection method is perfect.

Do you realize how infantile that is? How utterly silly it is?

msj · May 7, 2016

You are unwittingly attacking the entire concept of collecting and analyzing data... based on the fact that no data collection method is perfect.

Do you realize how infantile that is? How utterly silly it is?

1) I don't think it is so "unwitting." People will pursue their ideological interests in many ways. Some people don't want data so they can cut spending and cut taxes.

2) this logical fallacy (nirvana fallacy) has to be one of the most overused in this forum.

Although it will get a run for its money from the "appeal to wealth" and "appeal to poverty" people thanks to Trump locking up the nomination.

Big Guy · May 7, 2016

....

But Spanky, I'll be damned if I waste my time filling out another form for bureaucrats where I know damned well that most people just lie. The bureaucrats already know all this stuff.

...

How do you know most people lie? I do not nor do most of the people that I deal with.

I (we) cooperate because we believe that the process is important to run our country efficiently.

A government can be reactionary or it can be preemptive. It can wait until a problem is evident and causing damage, evaluate how to correct it and then try to make those corrections. Or it can anticipate a coming problem (through statistical analysis) and make changes so that the problem will not metastasize. I believe that it is a far more intelligent process to anticipate and change than to react.

Edited May 7, 2016 by Big Guy

cybercoma · May 7, 2016

Actually it does:[/size]

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/duress"force or threats meant to make someone do something"[/size]

Duress usually means mortal threats of violence. In other words, you're being melodramatic. I suppose you're also under duress to stop at red lights. That's how goofy your argument sounds. Edited May 7, 2016 by cybercoma

cybercoma · May 7, 2016

Bryan, out of curiosity, how often do you think the government should verify their existing data? You say they already have it, but don't you think it's responsible for them to verify it and make sure it's as up to date as possible?

Bryan · May 7, 2016

Duress usually means mortal threats of violence. In other words, you're being melodramatic. I suppose you're also under duress to stop at red lights. That's how goofy your argument sounds.

I can't be responsible for your lack of understanding of english. It seems to be a common occurrence.

Bryan, out of curiosity, how often do you think the government should verify their existing data? You say they already have it, but don't you think it's responsible for them to verify it and make sure it's as up to date as possible?

The data they have is continuously updated every time someone is born, gets married, files their taxes, buys a house, uses their health card, etc, etc.

jacee · May 8, 2016

I can't be responsible for your lack of understanding of english. It seems to be a common occurrence.

The data they have is continuously updated every time someone is born, gets married, files their taxes, buys a house, uses their health card, etc, etc.

But they don't communicate that among departments.

Unless you're on a CSIS watch list.

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bush_cheney2004 · May 8, 2016

But they don't communicate that among departments.

Unless you're on a CSIS watch list.

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Depends on the circumstances....Canadian census data was certainly "shared among departments" for WW2 era Japanese internment by the government.

cybercoma · May 8, 2016

The data they have is continuously updated every time someone is born, gets married, files their taxes, buys a house, uses their health card, etc, etc.

So how often should they update it? What about people who don't pay taxes, don't legally marry, rent, and are healthy? I mean that's assuming they keep records the way you think they do, which they don't. Health data is not connected to income tax data, since you know....,they're completely different governments responsible for those things. Data is not stored nor shared the way you imagine that it is.

cybercoma · May 8, 2016

Also, duress still doesn't mean what you think it means. It's pretty dense to consider obeying the law as duress. Like I said, you must be just terrified every time you get behind the wheel, since there's an entire legislative framework regulating the operation of a motor vehicle. All of that duress. It's like having a gun to your head several times a minute. What histrionics.

Bryan · May 8, 2016

But they don't communicate that among departments.

So they should fix that and stop wasting time and money on this useless extra layer of redundancy.

Also, duress still doesn't mean what you think it means.

I already posted the dictionary definition. Is english your second language?

jacee · May 8, 2016

So they should fix that and stop wasting time and money on this useless extra layer of redundancy.

Ya?

You want government bureaucrats just sharing your personal information everywhere, without your consent and with no expectation of privacy?

How strange.

I already posted the dictionary definition. Is english your second language?

Was that supposed to be an insult?

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Smoke · May 8, 2016

So they should fix that and stop wasting time and money on this useless extra layer of redundancy.

I already posted the dictionary definition. Is english your second language?

C'mon Bryan, dictionary, schmictionary. Those on the left will tell you the "real" meaning of the word.

cybercoma · May 8, 2016

So they should fix that and stop wasting time and money on this useless extra layer of redundancy.

I already posted the dictionary definition. Is english your second language?

It still doesn't mean what you want it to mean in this context. Are the other laws you follow cause you duress? When there's a no burning ordnance during dry spells does hat cause you duress because you can't have a camp fire?

To put it bluntly calling it duress that you have to fill out the census by like is completely moronic. Duress is when you're compelled to do something because otherwise someone will cause you serious harm. No one is causing you serious harm if you don't fill out the census. When you call it duress that you can be fined for not doing so and even then in only the most extreme cases, you sound like a crybaby idiot.

Shady · May 8, 2016

Going back to the long form census is great. Maybe Justin Trudeau will insist we all go back to dial up too.

cybercoma · May 8, 2016

Your metaphor makes absolutely no sense. Do you have any idea how much research uses the long form?

waldo · May 8, 2016

Going back to the long form census is great. Maybe Justin Trudeau will insist we all go back to dial up too.

keep fightin' the Harper fight... keep trying to wrestle that lost legacy tear in your eye! By the by, why do all those number-crunching, data analyzing types like... more data? Is more data harmful Shady? Why do you posit that more data is... antiquated?

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Smallc · May 8, 2016

Your metaphor makes absolutely no sense. Do you have any idea how much research uses the long form?

You don't actually think he cares, do you?

Bryan · May 8, 2016

Ya?

You want government bureaucrats just sharing your personal information everywhere, without your consent and with no expectation of privacy?

How strange.

Not everywhere. Just the information they are forcing people to divulge anyway, only visible to the people authorized to access it.

Was that supposed to be an insult?

It was a serious question. Cyber is a past master of misrepresenting the things other people are saying, and demanding that they repeat things that have already been clearly laid out. I'm just trying to understand why his reading comprehension skills are so low.

Shady · May 9, 2016

keep fightin' the Harper fight... keep trying to wrestle that lost legacy tear in your eye! By the by, why do all those number-crunching, data analyzing types like... more data? Is more data harmful Shady? Why do you posit that more data is... antiquated?

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Yes the lost legacy of structural budget responsibility as oppose to Justin Trudeau's complete destruction and disregard for it. Yay Canada!