Trudeau's Committment to Syrian Refugees - 25,000 by Year End

eyeball · October 24, 2015

You bloody well better hurry up.

Big Guy · October 24, 2015

The Provinces have to get on board in preparation if we are looking at a 25,000 immediate influx. It is already on record that women and children will be the majority. Education is a provincial responsibility.

I remember the challenges that were created after the large Vietnamese refugee immigration. Schools were not prepared. Many of these immigrants had already spent years in refugee camps without proper dental or medical care, no schools and no idea of the Canadian culture. There were also a number of illegal immigrants in Canada who had been hiding their children from schooling because you had to be identified for your children to be allowed to attend. Also, by necessity, most immigrants were directed to urban centres where they could be processed and tracked more easily.

So suddenly in Ontario, we had thousands of children who had to be placed into "appropriate" schooling environments. Many of these children had not been in school for 4 or more years and greatly behind Canadian students of equal age. If you created special classes for these kids then their assimilation into the student community was thwarted and gangs would result. If you placed them according to age, then you had students in the same class who were very, very different in background and ability. If you placed them according to ability you would have 12 year old placed into classes with 8 year olds creating more disciplinary and accommodation difficulties.

Eventually we learned but it was an expensive program and initially cost Ontario a lot of taxpayer money. I say "initially" because the Vietnamese turned out to be very hard workers who boosted the Ontario economy and those children eventually assimilated, finished their Canadian studies and are now some of our most successful professionals and leaders in the community.

Back to the challenges, the Vietnamese tended to group together in hallways while sitting on their haunches ("like frogs on a Lilly pad" taunting by some Canadian kids) because that is what is done in refugee camps which have very little furniture. There was great resentment of them by many local kids, probably encouraged by racist parents. Another major challenge were confrontations between the locals and newcomers.

In the refugee camps, when there was a confrontation, the one who struck first and hardest was the winner with very little supervision of teenager behaviour in the camps. In our schools, our local students were accustomed to a confrontation beginning with name calling, some shoving, then maybe somebody would hit somebody else and somebody would break up the fight or by that time a teacher would show up. So when these two groups had confrontations, the local would shove a Vietnamese and the immediate reaction would be very damaging to the local - he was lucky if the Vietnamese was not armed. In time, as the Vietnamese teenagers became accustomed to Canadian "rules" these kinds of problems disappeared.

I agree with what Trudeau and the Liberals are planning to do but the provinces have to get on board for the process to be immediately successful and we reap the benefits of a new immigration as soon as possible.

-TSS- · October 24, 2015

Some people are making good money out of this mindless refugee-business. If that weren't the case this wouldn't be happening.

Michael Hardner · October 24, 2015

Some people are making good money out of this mindless refugee-business. If that weren't the case this wouldn't be happening.

Can you explain who you mean ? Arms dealers ?

-TSS- · October 24, 2015

In Finland the detention-centers for the asylum-seekers has been outsourced as a privately run business and the business-dealers collect al the profits while the government covers all the costs and the government of course means the tax-payers.

It is so outrageous it really makes my blood boil and I'm not the only one. This in a country which is according to some surveys the least corrupt country in the world. You can only imagine what ordinary people think of such surveys.

This kind of scam could never happen in any other country. In any other country those profiteers would be beaten the hell out of but not in Finland. Here we accept everything and just grin.

You may ask why am I not up in arms about this outrageous travesty instead of just moaning about it behind a computer. That's because I'm a Finn and we Finns are sheeple.

hitops · October 24, 2015

Right. That's called an observation. Left-of-centre people will tell you that poverty causes violence. I don't think that's true either, but they're using the same methods as you are. Basically, start with an observation, then pick a factor that's at play as the cause.

In both cases, you can find people (ie. who follow the religion, or people who are poor) that don't succumb.

You're better off admitting that it's (at best) a cofactor. The fact that it's the religion for a poor part of the world that is resource-rich could have something to do with it, for example. I'm not saying that it does.

You misunderstand. I know exactly what you are saying, I look at cofactors and all that stuff routinely as part of my job.

It is not just a religion for poor parts of the world. Much of the poor world is Christian, or animist, or local tribal religion of some kind. Much of the Asian world is Buddhist or some kind of Confucius-dirived system including many poor areas. The Philippines is poor, so is Vietnam, so are a ton of places in that vicinity. But yet you don't find those non-Muslim population forming militant operations or conducting terror. You basically only find Muslim groups doing that, or at least the vast majority of them.

The wiki list of conflicts be deaths:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ongoing_armed_conflicts

You have to go pretty far down the list to a find a conflict not involving Islam. In the top 18 (everything involving 1000 or more deaths in the last year), I see 3 which are not related to Islamic groups.

This is not a 'well they all do it' situation. That misrepresents the scope of the problem. That is like saying 'both our cities have crime' if my city had 10 murders and yours had 3 car thefts.

Edited October 24, 2015 by hitops

Michael Hardner · October 24, 2015

It is not just a religion for poor parts of the world. Much of the poor world is Christian, or animist, or local tribal religion of some kind. Much of the Asian world is Buddhist or some kind of Confucius-dirived system including many poor areas. The Philippines is poor, so is Vietnam, so are a ton of places in that vicinity. But yet you don't find those non-Muslim population forming militant operations or conducting terror. You basically only find Muslim groups doing that, or at least the vast majority of them.

Why are you not attributing the changes to race then ?

You have to go pretty far down the list to a find a conflict not involving Islam.

'Involving' isn't the same as causing. What about Africa, that's on the list too.

This is not a 'well they all do it' situation. That misrepresents the scope of the problem. That is like saying 'both our cities have crime' if my city had 10 murders and yours had 3 car thefts.

The problem is that attributing it to the religion means that Canadians who are part of the religion are somehow poisoned by it. Until you can establish a cause for this, the religion is no more a cause than race is. And you're making the problem worse by focusing on that.

hitops · October 24, 2015

Why are you not attributing the changes to race then?

Because those areas involve different races.

'Involving' isn't the same as causing. What about Africa, that's on the list too.

Causing then. Was trying to be polite. It is hard to establish cause in some conflict, but nearly all involved Islam. It is like that one person at work who seems to have a problem with everyone....just like they did at their last workplace too. Ok yes, you cannot for sure say they cause situation A (they were rude to me), and then situation B (they stole my stapler because they hate me) and then person C, D, etc. But at some point you have to ask what is the common denominator in all these cases?

The problem is that attributing it to the religion means that Canadians who are part of the religion are somehow poisoned by it. Until you can establish a cause for this, the religion is no more a cause than race is. And you're making the problem worse by focusing on that.

Equating religion and race is a false equivalency. A given race does not necessarily confer a belief system. Religion nearly always does.......that is sort of the definition of what a religion is. Genetic vs how you believe, there is no comparison.

Islam's founder explicitly promoted ideas of Muslim superiority, and Muslim rights over others, including rights to suppression and subjugation. He believed women were inferior and said they were deficient of mind, and that most of hell's occupants were women because they did not listen to their husbands. His dying words were to push Jews into the sea. He was at war throughout his life.

When a huge group of people specifically admit to wanting to emulate this 'best of all people', I do not know why it is a leap to find that the results of that, are not overly productive for a civilized tolerant society. Kids brought up that learn to see others as less than human. That affects your you related to other people.

Edited October 24, 2015 by hitops

Michael Hardner · October 24, 2015

Because those areas involve different races.

Right, the peaceful ones are but the areas of violence you identify are mostly from one race aren't they ?

Ok yes, you cannot for sure say they cause situation A (they were rude to me), and then situation B (they stole my stapler because they hate me) and then person C, D, etc. But at some point you have to ask what is the common denominator in all these cases?

Why do you "have" to ask ? I guess if you need to blame a certain type of person then you "have" to ask. But solving a problem isn't blaming.

Islam's founder...

Why are Christians and Jews able to suppress/ignore parts of their holy books that call for violence ? The books don't cause anything is the answer.

Argus · October 24, 2015

That's a TON of refugees. I don't know how they'll even process that many that quickly, especially in a responsible manner. They'll have less than 2 months to do it, I don't think it will happen. Maybe they'll be able to start opening claims on 25,000 syrians, but I can't see 25,000 in Canada by New Years Eve.

The Americans have given themselves two years to process 10,000 but Trudeau has always been about style, not substance. It makes no difference how long this takes given the refugees are already safe in Turkey, but he's likely going to spend a ton of money to hurry things along, taking short cuts, and bringing over thousands of illiterates who will spend the rest of their lives on welfare. Cost? Who cares? It'll make him look good to the progressives! And that's really all that matters.

Argus · October 24, 2015

That will be good enough for me......but I would expect the commitment to be fulfilled by say, end of March.....that seems reasonable given the promise he made.

It'd seem reasonable to me if they required people who are enthusiastic about this to pay for it without my help.

Argus · October 24, 2015

They have these new things called planes... they actually fly over oceans without stopping!

And into buildings -- with a very abrupt stop.

Edited October 24, 2015 by Argus

On Guard for Thee · October 24, 2015

Now that Putin is bombing Syria as well, the refugee problem will get worse.

Argus · October 24, 2015

I hope they get you first.

If Trudeau rushes things along for political reasons and one of these guys attacks a Jewish school or something, Trudeau will wear it.

Argus · October 24, 2015

I'm sure people said the same thing about the boat people.

And we did. It spawned a lot of violent street crime, and Canadians died because of it.

Argus · October 24, 2015

and Syria was a relatively moderate country.

Lol. Wot? You know that the vicious brutality that is going on in that country is largely being perpetrated by Syrians, right?

Argus · October 24, 2015

I have, in the past, played back peoples' assumptions and generalizations about religions to them, substituting nationality and heritage for religion, and been accused (with shock !) of labelling them 'racist'. And yet, they had no trouble attributing negative traits to religious groups.

Gee, imagine that! they had no trouble attributing negative traits to a religion which has inspired 25,000 terrorist acts since 9/11, which regards women as less than human, and which prescribes extreme violence for any number of 'offenses'? I wonder why that would be...

Argus · October 24, 2015

We have had people try to 'prove' it or explain it in the past but they have never been able to do it.

Much like you can't demonstrate the earth is round to a flat earth nut, or you can't demonstrate that 9/11 was organized by Osama bin Laden to conspiracy kooks, you cannot demonstrate there is anything to be criticized or blamed about Islam to a politically correct progressive.

That doesn't mean it couldn't be proven to an unbiased, open minded person.

Argus · October 24, 2015

What about the religion causes the violence though ? How do you know that religion is not simply a cofactor here ? For example, this is the dominant religion in a remote, oil-rich part of the world so perhaps resource contention is the root cause ?

Except you cannot find a Muslim country free of religious violence. You cannot even find a nation where Islam makes up a sizable minority, say 10% or more, without religious violence.

Argus · October 24, 2015

The West shouldn't have torn Syria and Iraq apart and then we wouldn't be facing this problem.

The religious hatred within Syria and Iraq tore them apart, not the West.

On Guard for Thee · October 24, 2015

The religious hatred within Syria and Iraq tore them apart, not the West.

Perhaps you should study what actually happened in Iraq before jumping to such a conclusion.

Argus · October 24, 2015

Why are Christians and Jews able to suppress/ignore parts of their holy books that call for violence ? The books don't cause anything is the answer.

No the answer, as you know full well but refuse to accept, is that Jews and Muslims have constantly reinterpreted their religious texts in an academic and intellectual fashion over the centuries, and those interpretations have moderated the excesses. The Koran was last interpreted hundreds of years ago, and that interpretation was declared perfect, and no further questioning was permitted upon pain of death.