Netanyahu: It was Mufti of Jerusalem who convinced Hitler to kill Jews

[DogOnPorch]

No problem, Rue.

The reason we (collective we) give the Mufti a pass is a combination of incredulity and the soft bigotry of low expectation. Folks simple can't...and thus won't...believe that they're supporting what is essentially a burning ember of World War Two. And an Arab Nazi?? Unheard of...right?

History is being rewritten and the typical comment to go along with this revision is akin to what GH wrote:

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums/topic/25189-netanyahu-it-was-mufti-of-jerusalem-who-convinced-hitler-to-kill-jews/?p=1113831

I really don't care either way. Almost a year of absence and you come strutting back trotting out Mufti again, with more vigor than before.

Like history should change? Like it is wrong to be against Nazis? Like I'm lying and the Mufti was actually a saint?

I'm not sure exactly what Gosthacked's complaint really is...

Edited November 10, 2015 by DogOnPorch

[eyeball]

Like I'm lying and the Mufti was actually a saint?

I'm not sure exactly what Gosthacked's complaint really is...

No more of a saint than Mackenzie King who also had a role in the extermination of Jews.

I understand you have a particular axe to grind but beyond that I'm not exactly sure why anyone else should be less charitable towards our own country's role in the extermination of Jews.

[Hudson Jones]

Your attempt to exploit the holocaust to engage in anti Netanyahu accusations is dead.

Lol.

Who is exploiting the holocaust?

As of this week, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has undertaken an even more blatantly mendacious attempt to exploit the Holocaust politically. In a speech to the World Zionist Congress, Netanyahu claimed that at the time of the meeting between Hitler and Haj Amin al-Husseini, the grand mufti of Jerusalem, on Nov. 28, 1941, the former was still in favor of expelling Jews and the latter opposed this because the expelled Jews would come to Palestine. Instead, according to Netanyahu’s version of history, the mufti urged Hitler to “burn” them, thus becoming the prime instigator of the Final Solution. The Netanyahu account of this meeting is an historical fabrication, or more simply a lie.

Hitler had opted for the total and systematic killing of Jews on Soviet territory in mid-July 1941, and German killing units on the eastern front began targeting the entire Jewish population — including women, children, and the elderly — beginning in late July and early August. The two-day massacre of over 33,000 Jews at Babi Yar outside Kiev took place in late September. Hitler approved the extension of the mass murder program to Jews west of Soviet territory in late October, and two death camps using poison gas were under construction at Belzec and Chelmno by early November. When Hitler met with Husseini, the fateful shift in Nazi Jewish policy from expulsion and decimation to systematic and total mass murder had already occurred.

...

There were many thousands of Holocaust perpetrators more historically significant than the grand mufti of Jerusalem, but for Netanyahu they have no useful political significance — which is to say they were not Palestinian. His extraordinary exaggeration of Husseini’s complicity, and by implication that of the entire Palestinian people, is a blatant attempt to stigmatize and delegitimize any sympathy or concern for Palestinian rights and statehood. Netanyahu’s shameful and indecent speech is a disservice to anyone — Jew and non-Jew — for whom research, teaching, and preservation of the historical truth of the Holocaust has value, meaning, and purpose.

[GostHacked]

And-finish.....deny the Mufti had a role in urging on the extermination of Jews. Either finish it or move on. No one has denied what Netanyahu said. the denial is over what the Muftis' role is and no amount of semantics or posing on this thread will change what Dog has tried to show you.

t

Actually you had pushed back on the quote from Marcus. Saying Netanyahu had clarified his statements. I am not arguing for or against. I really don't care either way. That dead horse has been beaten so hard it's been resurrected again. I am simply stating that what Marcus quoted of Netanyahu is 100% correct. He said exactly what he said.

The next two quotes seem to negate the first quote in this post.

This was back on page two.

The hypothesis advanced by the thread starter is incorrect. Netanyahu never stated Hitler did not want to exterminate Jews. That is a falsehood.

Page 3

MSJ tell me what words from Netanyahu said the holocaust was solely the blame of the Mufti. Go on show me. Show me the words that say he blames the holocaust solely on the Mufti.

Have BC, Big Guy, Marcus, anyone you want show me.

The really crazy thing is that Netanyahu said what he said. But even when he DOES say it, people don't believe it. Taken out of context? Are you kidding me? That is like taking what Canada_First says out of context and saying he really does like Palestinians.

But we also have the 'Because Mufti' being trotted with more vigor than ever. And that is after a year of absence from the forums. Not sure what the game is, but I guess we will find out.

NEXT !!!!!

[DogOnPorch]

Next indeed.

Only your perception of history gets in the way. The Mufti didn't suddenly appear from under a cabbage leaf at my behest in order to make the Palestinian Cause a product of Nazism. That was all their doing...and the collective 'we' has known about the fellow even if he's a newcomer to your understanding, GH.

For example...

https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1893&dat=19470915&id=lLAfAAAAIBAJ&sjid=N9cEAAAAIBAJ&pg=1802,5405767&hl=en

"Grand Mufti of Palestine Helped In Slaughter Of 5,000,000 Jews"

Note the date...Sept 15th, 1947...right in the midst of the UN Palestine question.

[marcus]

I'm not referring to what Netanyahu said.

I'm not interested in changing the topic. If you want a response, then stay on topic, which is; Netanyahu has lied again and this time he is exploiting the holocaust and trying to re-write history.

[DogOnPorch]

I'm not interested in changing the topic. If you want a response, then stay on topic, which is; Netanyahu has lied again and this time he is exploiting the holocaust and trying to re-write history.

The Mufti...founder of the Palestinian Cause and Arafat's uncle...was still a Nazi deeply involved in the Final Solution. What Netanyahu said or didn't say doesn't change that one iota. Nor should it give the Mufti and his cause born of antisemitism and hatred of the Hashemites a pass. We wouldn't have done it for Himmler or Goering. Not sure why al-Husseini is different.

Why is he different?

[marcus]

The Mufti...founder of the Palestinian Cause and Arafat's uncle...was still a Nazi deeply involved in the Final Solution. What Netanyahu said or didn't say doesn't change that one iota. Nor should it give the Mufti and his cause born of antisemitism and hatred of the Hashemites a pass. We wouldn't have done it for Himmler or Goering. Not sure why al-Husseini is different.

Why is he different?

That's nice.

Let's call your refusal to respond to whether or not Netanyahu has lied is an indication that you agree that Netanyahu lied when he said:

Hitler didn’t want to exterminate the Jews at the time, he wanted to expel the Jews. And Haj Amin al-Husseini went to Hitler and said, “If you expel them, they’ll all come here.” “So what should I do with them?” he asked. He said, “Burn them.”

[DogOnPorch]

Hitler didn't say that to the Mufti...is that clear enough? Hitler didn't say a lot at their meeting. What he did say is the following:

The Fuhrer then made the following statement to the Mufti, enjoining him to lock it in the uttermost depths of his heart:

1. He (the Fuhrer) would carry on the battle to the total destruction of the Judeo-Communist empire in Europe.
2. At some moment which was impossible to set exactly today but which in any event was not distant, the German armies would in the course of this struggle reach the southern exit from Caucasia.
3. As soon as this had happened, the Fuhrer would on his own give the Arab world the assurance that its hour of liberation had arrived. Germany's objective would then be solely the destruction of the Jewish element residing in the Arab sphere under the protection of British power. In that hour the Mufti would be the most authoritative spokesman for the Arab world. It would then be his task to set off the Arab operations, which he had secretly prepared. When that time had come, Germany could also be indifferent to French reaction to such a declaration.

Once Germany had forced open the road to Iran and Iraq through Rostov; it would be also the beginning of the end of the British World Empire. He (the Fuhrer) hoped that the coming year would make it possible for Germany to thrust open the Caucasian gate to the Middle East. For the good of their common cause, it would be better if the Arab proclamation were put off for a few more months than if Germany were to create difficulties for herself without being able thereby to help the Arabs.

He (the Fuhrer) fully appreciated the eagerness of the Arabs for a public declaration of the sort requested by the Grand Mufti. But he would beg him to consider that he (the Fuhrer) himself was the Chief of State of the German Reich for five long years during which he was unable to make to his own homeland the announcement of its liberation. He had to wait with that until the announcement could be made on the basis of a situation brought about by the force of arms that the Anschluss had been carried out.

The moment that Germany's tank divisions and air squadrons had made their appearance south of the Caucasus, the public appeal requested by the Grand Mufti could go out to the Arab world.

Netanyahu is mixing events...a common mistake among non-historians. He might be referring to a series of letters the Mufti sent which do mention the Palestinian-Jewish problem. Here's one...

Rome
June 28, 1943
His Excellency
The Minister of Foreign Affairs for Hungary
Your Excellency:

You no doubt know of the struggle between the Arabs and Jews of Palestine, what it has been and what it is, a long and bloody fight, brought about by the desire of the Jews to create a national home, a Jewish State in the Near East, with the help and protection of England and the United States. In fact, behind it lies the hope which the Jews have never relinquished, namely, the domination of the whole world through this Important, strategic center, Palestine. In effect their program has, among other purposes, always aimed at the encouragement of Jewish migration to Palestine and the other countries of the Near East. However, the war, as well as the understanding which the members of the Three-Power Pact have of the responsibility of the Jews for its outbreak and finally their evil intentions towards these countries which protected them until now - all these are reasons for placing them under such vigilant control as will definitely stop their emigration to Palestine or elsewhere.

Lately I have been informed of the uninterrupted efforts made by the English and the Jews to obtain permission for the Jews living in your country to leave for Palestine via Bulgaria and Turkey. I have also learned that these negotiations were successful since some of the Jews of Hungary have had the satisfaction of emigrating to Palestine via Bulgaria and Turkey and that a group of these Jews arrived In Palestine towards the end of last March. The Jewish Agency, which supervises the execution of the Jewish program, has published a bulletin which contains important information on the current negotiations between the English Government and the governments of other interested states to send the Jews of Balkan countries to Palestine. The Jewish Agency quoted, among other things, its receipt of a sufficient number of immigration certificates for 900 Jewish children to be transported from Hungary, accompanied by 100 adults.

To authorize these Jews to leave your country under the above circumstances and in this way, would by no means solve the Jewish problem and would certainly not protect your country against their evil influence - far from it! - for this escape would make it possible for them to communicate and combine freely with their racial brethren in enemy countries in order to strengthen their position and to exert a more dangerous influence on the outcome of the war, especially since, as a consequence of their long stay in your country they are necessarily in a position to know many of your secrets and also about your war effort. All this comes on top of the terrible damage done to the friendly Arab nation which has taken its place at your side in this war and which cherishes for your country the most sincere feelings and the very best wishes.

This is the reason why I ask your Excellency to permit me to draw your attention to the necessity of preventing the Jews from leaving your country for Palestine and if there are reasons which make their removal necessary, it would be indispensable and infinitely preferable to send them to other countries where they would find themselves under active control, for example, in Poland, in order thereby to protect oneself from their menace and avoid the consequent damages

Yours, etc.

...which does mention 'burning them' (active control in Poland).

So...either way...the Nazi baggage is piled high.

Can you now tell me why al-Husseini is different from the other top Nazis of the Third Reich? Why did he deserve his own Jew-free country post WW2? Were you sure to read my entire post? You need a checklist...lol.

Edited November 12, 2015 by DogOnPorch

[eyeball]

Next indeed.

Only your perception of history gets in the way. The Mufti didn't suddenly appear from under a cabbage leaf at my behest in order to make the Palestinian Cause a product of Nazism. That was all their doing...and the collective 'we' has known about the fellow even if he's a newcomer to your understanding, GH.

For example...

https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1893&dat=19470915&id=lLAfAAAAIBAJ&sjid=N9cEAAAAIBAJ&pg=1802,5405767&hl=en

"Grand Mufti of Palestine Helped In Slaughter Of 5,000,000 Jews"

Note the date...Sept 15th, 1947...right in the midst of the UN Palestine question.

MacKenzie King helped in the slaughter of 5,000,000 Jews in 1939.

The St. Louis at Hamburg, Germany, prior to its departure for Cuba in May, 1939. (U. S. Holocaust Memorial Museum)

Note the date?

[eyeball]

Can you now tell me why al-Husseini is different from the other top Nazis of the Third Reich?

Can you tell me the difference between MacKenzie King and al-Husseini?

[marcus]

Hitler didn't say that to the Mufti

Thank you. This topic is closed.

[DogOnPorch]

MacKenzie King helped in the slaughter of 5,000,000 Jews in 1939.

The St. Louis at Hamburg, Germany, prior to its departure for Cuba in May, 1939. (U. S. Holocaust Memorial Museum)

Note the date?

Yes...I have an aunt by marriage who was on that ship as a young teen. She's alive...and kicking in NYC...gives talks and such about her experiences as well as being a consultant on a movie called 'Voyage of the Damned' which you might have seen.

King didn't work for the SS and participate physically in the Final Solution. The Mufti did. But, King and his government were indeed part of the problem. Many Jews could have been saved before the war broke out fully...like our nation is trying to do now with Syrians. The US had a weird quota system which is why the St Louis was waiting in Cuban waters, anyways. Their destination wasn't Canada.

[DogOnPorch]

Thank you. This topic is closed.

No...the founder of the Palestinian cause still was an SS man who was deeply involved in the Final Solution as I've shown. Why does Netanyahu getting his history mixed-up absolve the Grand Mufti of his work during the Holocaust?

[eyeball]

The point of the exercise is that young Palestinians today have no more business being associated with Nazi's by Netanyahu than your aunt did when being associated with whatever it was that made her seem as evil to people.

Everyone is supposed to have grown up by now.

Its 2015 ffs.

[Bonam]

The point of the exercise is that young Palestinians today have no more business being associated with Nazi's by Netanyahu than your aunt did when being associated with whatever it was that made her seem as evil to people.

That would be true if so many "young Palestinians today" didn't still hate Jews as much as any Nazi ever did.

[eyeball]

That would be true if so many "young Palestinians today" didn't still hate Jews as much as any Nazi ever did.

It'll always be true as long as Israelis hate Palestine as much as Palestinians hate Israel.

Nazis have squat to do with that.

[DogOnPorch]

The point of the exercise is that young Palestinians today have no more business being associated with Nazi's by Netanyahu than your aunt did when being associated with whatever it was that made her seem as evil to people.

Everyone is supposed to have grown up by now.

Its 2015 ffs.

"The Jews are the most despicable and contemptible nation to crawl upon the face of the Earth, because they have displayed hostility to Allah."

---Atallah Abu Al-Subh (Hamas Minister of Culture: 2011)

Note...Jews....not Israel.

[eyeball]

And lots of Jews feel the very same way in return.

Note...everyone is supposed to have to grown up...not just the Palestinians.

[DogOnPorch]

And lots of Jews feel the very same way in return.

Note...everyone is supposed to have to grown up...not just the Palestinians.

There is no excuse for Hamas.

[eyeball]

There is no excusing anyone over there.

[cannuck]

Let me first thank the many contributors to this thread for a fantastic lesson in history.

My own (purely armchair) opinion is that the real blame needs to be laid at the feet of the Zionists who were such A-holes (IMHO, the inventors of terrorism) that the Romans kicked them out of their homeland. Ironic that so many years later, it is an address to that very body (at least nominally) that can stir up so much debate.

Which brings my question as to how long does one hold a land or people as connected? While I have no trouble understanding the indignation of Palestinians over their displacement by Israelis (and can not understand how they don't hold the Balfour Doctrine up to the light more often), I think the nearly 2 millenia of vacancy by Jews kind of puts all of Palestine into the hands of the Palestinians.

Keep in mind, these are not just Israel/Palestine issues, but one that lands right in our own back yard regarding the Canadian aboriginal population and "lands".

The current wave of forced immigration from the region is also threatening to "re-Isamize" a good chunk of Europe. While our current system of land titles pretty much takes that off of the table, the whole business of being democratic means that the culture and regulatory environment of host countries is very much in play. The continued urbanization of Canada, for instance, has resulted in the looney-toons of the Politically Correct movement being handed the keys to the door (and tax-treasure chest) of OUR little corner of the world, so it can happen insidiously and quickly.

[marcus]

That would be true if so many "young Palestinians today" didn't still hate Jews as much as any Nazi ever did.

I was hoping that you wouldn't get into the same bandwagon.

How can you compare a Palestinian to a Nazi? Look at what the Palestinians have been going through for the past 6+ decades. The Nazi's reason for "hate" is different than the reasons why a young Palestinian today would hate an Israeli Jew. That said, many Palestinians can distinguish between Jews, which shows that it's not about religion or ethnicity. Some of the leading activists that are defending and speaking out in support of Palestinians are Jewish.

Edited November 15, 2015 by marcus

[DogOnPorch]

I was hoping that you wouldn't get into the same bandwagon.

The Grand Mufti was a Nazi. It's pretty simple.

[Rue]

Canuck your post made no sense. The Arab League in fact was rejected by the Arab League of nations so your entire premises that the Jews did not follow the Balfour Declaration and trigged the current conflicts is illogical. It was in fact the Arab League that rejected the doctrine not Israel.

Your words have used the conflict as a pretext to blame all Jews. Your use of the word Jews in your response made that clear. You exemplify and illustrate how you couch your discussion on a conflict supposedly caused by Zionists, but then use the reference Jews to blame all Jews.

Your repeat again for the second thread of yours that Zionists invented terrorism..

Please, provide the proof Zionists invented terrorism and while you are at it that they rejected the Balfour Decleration.

The rest of your post also made zero sense.

Jews are indigenous to Israel as aboriginal people are to Canada and yet you use some fractured reference that appears to discuss aboriginal land rights as if indigenous people are entitled to them unless of course they are "Jews"..

Thanks for your valuable arm chair opinion but let me remind you once again we JEWS have the same rights as anyone to national an universal sufferage. We didn't invent terrorism, but some of us will sure as hell deal with it.

One last thing, you want to lump all Jews in your tirades, understand something-you'll know where to find me and it won't be in the place you want to put all Jews. Oh believe me on that.

Edited November 15, 2015 by Rue