David Suzuki versus Justin Trudeau

[Shady]

So, all these years

---SNIP---

civilization and setting up eventual human extinction.

That just isn't true. Civilization won't end over a 2 degree increase. The IPCC has already had to amend their ridiculous dire predictions from the past. In another decade or two we'll be past using the combustion engine and most fossil fuels. So all this alarmism will have been for nothing. Edited September 27, 2015 by Charles Anthony
[---SNIP---]

[On Guard for Thee]

That just isn't true. Civilization won't end over a 2 degree increase. The IPCC has already had to amend their ridiculous dire predictions from the past. In another decade or two we'll be past using the combustion engine and most fossil fuels. So all this alarmism will have been for nothing.

Cart before the horse again. If we do actually succeed in reigning global warming, it will be because the alarm was sounded.

[Freddy]

Once the air becomes so toxic, it's killing us, I have no doubt in my mind every country won't have a problem building gigantic air filter everywhere on earth. There will be nothing stoping it if our survival depends on it. That being said, I don't want to waste my time with the environment until our survival depends on it.

Business as usual until that day.

Edited September 27, 2015 by Freddy

[On Guard for Thee]

Once the air becomes so toxic, it's killing us, I have no doubt in my mind every country won't have a problem building gigantic air filter everywhere on earth. There will be nothing stoping it if our survival depends on it. That being said, I don't want to waste my time with the environment until our survival depends on it.

Business as usual until that day.

Um, just to update you, it's already killing lots of us.

[ReeferMadness]

How does Suzuki arrive at his hypothesis? Where does he get the 2 degrees from? And how does he come up with the 80% number? Why not 85% or 75%? How does he arrive at 80?

Does it matter? You've already made up your mind.

Harper has made it OK in Canada to ignore science, the same as he's made it OK for to make the type of bigoted comments that seem to be very common on this forum.

[ReeferMadness]

Because most of you on the Left are oblivious to what the public reaction would be if your politicians were honest about the economic damage you want to inflict on them.

You mean like the kind of economic damage that will be felt when the rest of the world moves clean energy and we still have an economy built around digging the dirtiest oil out of the ground?

Honestly, I worry people will come to associate Alberta with stupid. While Norway has built a sovereign wealth fund worth hundreds of billions of dollars, Alberta gave its resources away to the oil companies and lowered taxes. Albertans are going to wake up one day and find all they have left to show for the trillions of dollars worth of oil is a giant wasteland in the northeastern part of the province and a huge fleet of dual-wheeled pickup trucks and oversized camping trailers.

But hey. Having no sales tax for a few decades will make it all worthwhile.

[Freddy]

Um, just to update you, it's already killing lots of us.

Cite required

Considering the average human life expectancy is around 20 years. We have other bigger more harmful fish to fry

Edited September 27, 2015 by Freddy

[ReeferMadness]

Considering the average human life expectancy is around 20 years.

Cite definitely required.

Where did you get that from? The Onion?

[Freddy]

Cite definitely required.

Where did you get that from? The Onion?

The fact babies die often at birth in 3rd world countries brings down the average considerably

If you added abortions it would be even worst.

Edited September 27, 2015 by Freddy

[Derek 2.0]

Trudeau is just one more in a long line of politicians who think environment is just one more issue to worry about, try to use for advantage, or just demagogue with empty useless rhetoric (I think that would describe most of his climate policy speech from June). Nobody is voting/not voting Liberal because of environment! Most will likely be voting Liberal or NDP to stop Harper before he does any more damage.

Have the Liberals or NDP indicated how they would stop the "damage"? From Suzuki's interview, it doesn't appear the Liberals are much different than the Tories.

[On Guard for Thee]

Cite required

Considering the average human life expectancy is around 20 years. We have other bigger more harmful fish to fry

Surprised you would need a cite for something that has been widely known for some time, but here you go. 20 years, are you kidding?

http://arstechnica.com/science/2015/09/new-global-data-suggest-air-pollution-kills-10-million-people-per-year/

[Argus]

You mean like the kind of economic damage that will be felt when the rest of the world moves clean energy and we still have an economy built around digging the dirtiest oil out of the ground?

Oil and mining together represent under 8% of our economy.

And if renewable energy becomes economic to use we can always switch over.

Honestly, I worry people will come to associate Alberta with stupid. While Norway has built a sovereign wealth fund worth hundreds of billions of dollars, Alberta gave its resources away to the oil companies and lowered taxes.

Hard to argue with this. But it got them elected, repeatedly. Lots and lots of services they didn't make anyone pay for will do that for you. Pierre Trudeau was successful doing the same thing, and it looks like his son learned at his knee.

[Argus]

So I watched the coverage of Mulcair's announcement on his cap and trade thing, on both CTV and CBC. I was looking for some information, some hint, even a shadow of a shred of thought that this scheme might slow down the economy ever so slightly, might cost jobs, might increase the cost of fuel and electricity, might actually cost ordinary Canadians anything at all.

Nada. Nothing whatever.

[ReeferMadness]

The fact babies die often at birth in 3rd world countries brings down the average considerably

If you added abortions it would be even worst.

Oh, for gawd's sake. Just admit you made it up already.

71 years was the average life expectancy at birth of the global population in 2013

[WIP]

Have the Liberals or NDP indicated how they would stop the "damage"? From Suzuki's interview, it doesn't appear the Liberals are much different than the Tories.

No kidding! The big problem is the problems associated with global warming have been lowballed by all sides in the debate. The public has never been presented with the scenario that tough choices will have to be made in the future. Liberals just want a softer, nicer version of the usual status quo, so the platform from the beginning of the global warming debate has been what can we afford to do without making major structural changes to our economic systems, even though the advocates of "sustainable growth" never get around to explaining how growth can be derived without increasing energy demands and resource inputs.

So my expectations are low from mainstream politics anyway. The bad news coming in regarding rising oil and essential resource costs of extraction, seem to indicate that the scarcities that are being created and leading to worldwide grinding economic malaise, may accomplish for reduced carbon emissions what a room-full of politicians and experts could never accomplish!

[Derek 2.0]

No kidding! The big problem is the problems associated with global warming have been lowballed by all sides in the debate. The public has never been presented with the scenario that tough choices will have to be made in the future. Liberals just want a softer, nicer version of the usual status quo, so the platform from the beginning of the global warming debate has been what can we afford to do without making major structural changes to our economic systems, even though the advocates of "sustainable growth" never get around to explaining how growth can be derived without increasing energy demands and resource inputs.

So my expectations are low from mainstream politics anyway. The bad news coming in regarding rising oil and essential resource costs of extraction, seem to indicate that the scarcities that are being created and leading to worldwide grinding economic malaise, may accomplish for reduced carbon emissions what a room-full of politicians and experts could never accomplish!

As I asked before, how does the environmental movement expect positive gains divorced from the mainstream?

[Freddy]

Oh, for gawd's sake. Just admit you made it up already.

Laugh out loud. Ya. I may of underestimated our life expectancy a few years. Hahha

[TimG]

The big problem is the problems associated with global warming have been lowballed by all sides in the debate.

Actually, given the fact that scientific/political funding process rewards exaggerations it is pretty safe to assume that whatever happens it will be less consequential than the doomsayers predict. Any analysis of past enviro-scares supports this line of thinking (population bomb, acid rain, ozone, etc). Edited September 27, 2015 by TimG

[Freddy]

Surprised you would need a cite for something that has been widely known for some time, but here you go. 20 years, are you kidding?

http://arstechnica.com/science/2015/09/new-global-data-suggest-air-pollution-kills-10-million-people-per-year/

It's going to take more then 10 million people dieing a year mostly in India and China for change to happen. Wake me up when 100 million are dieing every year, and they aren't 90 years old. Edited September 27, 2015 by Freddy

[Michael Hardner]

It's going to take more then 10 million people dieing a year mostly in India and China for change to happen. Wake me up when 100 million are dieing every year, and they aren't 90 years old.

Actually, population growth is going to level off and is predicted to stop this century.

The environmental discussion needs to take that into account, as well as the fact that the globe will be more affluent and having a much more devastating impact on the earth.

[Topaz]

Harper won't even talk to Suzuki, I wonder what the would call Harper? The environment is a very hot issue and emotions will come out and I also wonder would any of the leaders be able to agree with everything with Suzuki?

[Smallc]

Harper won't even talk to Suzuki, I wonder what the would call Harper?

Yes, I wonder how we can turn this around on Harper?

[Freddy]

Actually, population growth is going to level off and is predicted to stop this century.The environmental discussion needs to take that into account, as well as the fact that the globe will be more affluent and having a much more devastating impact on the earth.

I have full confidence that once pollution is a direct threat to the survival of the human race, the problem will be addressed swiftly and withought delay by all countries. Unlimited resources and money will be allocated to solving the problem. A whole new industry will be born from it.

It's only a matter of time, but there is no point jumping the gun on it. It has to threaten the whole human race dramatically, only then will the resolve be universal from all countries. Until that happens we are wasting our time slowing down the inevitable.

[Smallc]

I have full confidence that once pollution is a direct threat to the survival of the human race, the problem will be addressed swiftly and withought delay by all countries.

That's exactly what will happen. It's not the first time, and it won't be the last.

[ReeferMadness]

Yes, I wonder how we can turn this around on Harper?

There's nothing to turn around. Suzuki would be the first to acknowledge that while the Liberal plan falls well short of what is needed it still beats the Harper plan of making excuses and doing nothing while emissions keep rising.

One gets the sense that Harper doesn't believe that climate change is even happening - almost like he's a fundamentalist Christian or something.