Which party is more left - Greens or the NDP?

[Vega]

I've been debating this, but I feel, after reading the platform of the Greens, it's them. The NDP was, but is no longer.

[Canada_First]

The NDP by a large margin.

[Vancouver King]

Left, far left.... what does it matter? Trudeau and his Liberals have arguably out flanked the NDP on the left by advocating deficit financing. Can the NDP, therefore, be described as centrist?

Why don't we give the Greens the award for being the only federal party to truly give a damn about the health of the planet - and forget the nonsense of positioning them on the political spectrum.

[Freddy]

One is mostly made up of feminists, And the other is mostly environmentalists. That's how I choose to look at it.

[BC_chick]

Can the NDP even be considered left anymore? They're pretty centre these days with a mulcair as leader.

[TimG]

Can the NDP even be considered left anymore? They're pretty centre these days with a mulcair as leader.

Well, a lot depends on whether Muclair governs his party with an iron fist. I don't think it will work as well for Muclair as it has for Harper.

[BC_chick]

Well, a lot depends on whether Muclair governs his party with an iron fist. I don't think it will work as well for Muclair as it has for Harper.

I was talking about the party platforms.

[G Huxley]

For me it's not really a question of left or right anymore. That over simplifies things and plays into the traditional Us vs Them b.s. games. It's a question of who will do the best for the environment and for Canada. (one and the same)

Although my position is more left wing oriented, I also get nauseous over a lot of things coming from the left like we need to let in a gazillion immigrants to improve the economy.

What they don't get is that that is the worst thing possible for the environment, but since such politics is consensused based even the best parties end up catering to it to get elected. That's why whenever a party starts getting major attention and starts doing well I start getting disillusioned with it.

Edited September 25, 2015 by G Huxley

[The_Squid]

Who cares? Vote for the party that best represents your views.

[On Guard for Thee]

Mulcair has moved to the right of Trudeau.

[BC_chick]

Mulcair has moved to the right of Trudeau.

I think Mulcair the man is more right than Trudeau but both are trying to stick to their party platforms as much as possible. End result is both are coming across as insincere opportunists.

But party platform LPC is still more right than NDP.

Edited September 25, 2015 by BC_chick

[On Guard for Thee]

I think Mulcair the man is more right than Trudeau but both are trying to stick to their party platforms as much as possible. End result is both are coming across as insincere opportunists.

But party platform LPC is still more right than NDP.

Perhaps on certain issues, but not on budget when you hear Mulcair promises to balance immediately when he doesn't yet have the actual books to look at. As to sincerity, I can't really recall the last time having any waves of that striking me from any party.

[Smallc]

But party platform LPC is still more right than NDP.

If Mulcair were in charge of the LPC, they'd be on their way to an easy majority.

[Smallc]

Perhaps on certain issues, but not on budget when you hear Mulcair promises to balance immediately when he doesn't yet have the actual books to look at.

You mean the ones that have been balanced for over a year?

[BC_chick]

Perhaps on certain issues, but not on budget when you hear Mulcair promises to balance immediately when he doesn't yet have the actual books to look at. As to sincerity, I can't really recall the last time having any waves of that striking me from any party.

True on balanced budget, but with corporate income tax and universal daycare, for example, both of them are sticking with party platform.

As for sincerity - I think Harper is pretty close to what he espouses.

Edited September 25, 2015 by BC_chick

[BC_chick]

If Mulcair were in charge of the LPC, they'd be on their way to an easy majority.

Agreed. Lotsa true NDP'ers are also jumping ship to Greens because of Mulcair.

[WIP]

It's an apples and oranges comparison to begin with. Because the NDP has never been very good on environment issues anyway...they're more concerned about losing blue collar support from dirty industries like tarsands and construction workers hoping to get jobs building pipelines. And, ever since the 70's, NDP federal and provincial parties have tended to shift to the middle whenever they see a chance to crowd out the Liberals or win an election.

The Green Party began with the primary focus on environment, and at least at the beginning, was casting the ideology net wide enough to try to snag Liberals who focused on environment issues...especially global warming. The only time the Greens were in a de facto alliance with a major party, it wasn't with the NDP/ it was with Stephan Dion's Liberals after he proposed a shift to a carbon tax.

[Vega]

It's an apples and oranges comparison to begin with. Because the NDP has never been very good on environment issues anyway...they're more concerned about losing blue collar support from dirty industries like tarsands and construction workers hoping to get jobs building pipelines. And, ever since the 70's, NDP federal and provincial parties have tended to shift to the middle whenever they see a chance to crowd out the Liberals or win an election.

The Green Party began with the primary focus on environment, and at least at the beginning, was casting the ideology net wide enough to try to snag Liberals who focused on environment issues...especially global warming. The only time the Greens were in a de facto alliance with a major party, it wasn't with the NDP/ it was with Stephan Dion's Liberals after he proposed a shift to a carbon tax.

That was true earlier on, but I don't think it is anymore. The Greens, as evidenced by their past two+ federal platforms, are more than a one issue party. They cover everything the NDP does.

[TimG]

That was true earlier on, but I don't think it is anymore. The Greens, as evidenced by their past two+ federal platforms, are more than a one issue party. They cover everything the NDP does.

Except no one votes Green or, for that matter, volunteers to be a Green candidate if they happen to think that the economy is the most important problem we face today. The environment is the signature issue for the Greens and all other policies are after thoughts and will be sacrificed in the name of their eco-ideology.

[ReeferMadness]

As for sincerity - I think Harper is pretty close to what he espouses.

The analysis on Harper suggests that his views are much more conservative than his governance. He's taken a more moderate stance and clamped down on the more extreme elements in his party to ensure he stays in power.

The prime minister practices what Wells terms “arch incrementalism.” Don’t scare the public with big gestures on politically divisive programs or policies — banning abortion, threatening universal health care, etc. — but rather transform society by the hundreds of smaller decisions that a prime minister makes, daily. So inevitably the sacking of “enemies” like the nuclear lady eventually pay-off. “Our crowd has their hands on the levers of power — not theirs. So there,” gloats Mr. Harper.

This is a guy who has a long history of denigrating Canada (he once called it a second tier socialistic country). Here is a quote on immigrants.

You’ve got to remember that west of Winnipeg the ridings the Liberals hold are dominated by people who are either recent Asian immigrants or recent migrants from eastern Canada: people who live in ghettoes and who are not integrated into western Canadian society.

What he has said about Canada in his past should have made him unelectable. That he is not only elected but Prime Minister says much about Canadians - and none of it good.

Make no mistake. This guy is a tea party conservative with a Christian evangelist background. The big difference between Stockwell Day and Stephen Harper is that Harper has been better at keeping his religious views to himself.

[bush_cheney2004]

...Make no mistake. This guy is a tea party conservative with a Christian evangelist background. The big difference between Stockwell Day and Stephen Harper is that Harper has been better at keeping his religious views to himself.

No such thing as a "tea party conservative" in Canada....this term is lazily imported from U.S. politics and media, where Stephen Harper and his party would be considered moderate to left of anything espoused by the real "Tea Party".

[ReeferMadness]

No such thing as a "tea party conservative" in Canada....this term is lazily imported from U.S. politics and media, where Stephen Harper and his party would be considered moderate to left of anything espoused by the real "Tea Party".

Sure. Because you say so.

[bush_cheney2004]

Sure. Because you say so.

We hold this truth to be self evident. Surely there must be some home grown labels for Canadian politics.

[TimG]

Sure. Because you say so.

He right. The 'tea party' is bete noire for the left in Canada and trying to associate the conservatives with tea party is nothing more than propaganda. Harper governed as a centrist and his religious affiliations are irrelevant just like the religious affiliations of Chretien were irrelevant.

[ReeferMadness]

He right. The 'tea party' is bete noire for the left in Canada and trying to associate the conservatives with tea party is nothing more than propaganda. Harper governed as a centrist and his religious affiliations are irrelevant just like the religious affiliations of Chretien were irrelevant.

Really.

Harper's church espouses "dispensationalism" which (as I understand it) teaches that Israel has to remain in the holy land so that Jesus will return to Earth and fight the final battle between good and evil. Whether Harper's personal beliefs are driven by this fundamentalist biblical interpretation remain unknown because he refuses to discuss it. But it's interesting that he has committed Canada to a sudden policy term with respect to Israel. And whether Harper personally believes it, he is beholden to a base who do.

Care to tell me why Chretien's religious beliefs bother you and how they stack up?