Smallc Posted September 5, 2015 Report Posted September 5, 2015 Oh, I think I actually meant this when I voted for "legalization": This is basically the same status as tobacco and alcohol? Yes, I'm with you. I apparently went with the wrong choice. This is what I think JT means by legalization. Quote
ReeferMadness Posted September 5, 2015 Report Posted September 5, 2015 Thank you for explaining. People refer to alcohol as legal but in political terms I guess it's not. I'm still not convinced that the definition in the poll is correct. Washington State has legalized marijuana. There are still regulations, but it is legal to buy. Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
Smallc Posted September 5, 2015 Report Posted September 5, 2015 That is correct. Alcohol and tobacco are decriminalized, namely from prohibition status for the former. Your definition doesn't seem to jive with what I'm finding on the Internet. Quote
ReeferMadness Posted September 5, 2015 Report Posted September 5, 2015 Here is an article on legalization vs decriminalization. Legalization means there are no penalties, providing you follow the regulation. What the survey is calling decriminalization is in fact various approaches to legalization. What the survey refers to as legalization doesn't exist anywhere, to my knowledge. Decriminalization is the removal of criminal penalties and replacing them with administrative penalties (e.g. fines), like traffic tickets. For example, most traffic violations are illegal but not criminal. Sorry, man - I think this survey needs a do-over. Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
ReeferMadness Posted September 5, 2015 Report Posted September 5, 2015 Obviously I don't know enough about this because I thought we decriminalized in the 90's but we still are unable to buy pot unless it's medicinal. There was a lot of talk about decriminalization but it never happened, at least officially. In practical terms, how you were treated often depended on where you were. Different police departments took different approaches to laying charges for simple possession of marijuana. In his report, The Enforcement of Marijuana Possession Offences in British Columbia: A Blueprint for Change, Boyd found the RCMP and the Vancouver Police Department have very different approaches and that the RCMP is much tougher in going after marijuana possession offences. Not surprisingly, charges for cannabis possession in Vancouver were much lower than in other parts of the province policed by the RCMP, his report found. "I've heard from some police officers, [the cannabis possession charge] is a useful tool for people who commit other more significant crimes not because it, in and of itself, is particularly problematic," Boyd said. "So it's a lever that can be used against people." So, we kind of have had decriminalization in many places because many police departments don't bother prosecuting simple possession. Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
Bryan Posted September 5, 2015 Report Posted September 5, 2015 I'm still not convinced that the definition in the poll is correct. Washington State has legalized marijuana. There are still regulations, but it is legal to buy. Washington state did not legalize marijuana. It's still a controlled substance, under the same authority that polices alcohol. Only businesses licensed and regulated by the Washington State Liquor Control Board can sell pot, and only under the conditions dictated by the board. Possession of pot not obtained according to the regulations is still prohibited, as is smoking weed in any public space. http://time.com/2955024/washington-where-to-buy-pot/ Quote
cybercoma Posted September 5, 2015 Author Report Posted September 5, 2015 Decriminalization is the removal of criminal penalties and replacing them with administrative penalties (e.g. fines), like traffic tickets. For example, most traffic violations are illegal but not criminal. Sorry, man - I think this survey needs a do-over. Why do it over? This is exactly what I listed. A series of various penalties and regulations for the types of decriminalization and no penalties or regulations whatsoever for legalization. That's the definition. Quote
Evening Star Posted September 5, 2015 Report Posted September 5, 2015 Here is an article on legalization vs decriminalization. Legalization means there are no penalties, providing you follow the regulation. What the survey is calling decriminalization is in fact various approaches to legalization. What the survey refers to as legalization doesn't exist anywhere, to my knowledge. Decriminalization is the removal of criminal penalties and replacing them with administrative penalties (e.g. fines), like traffic tickets. For example, most traffic violations are illegal but not criminal. Sorry, man - I think this survey needs a do-over. Yeah, that's how I've always understood the two terms. What is the source for the definitions used in this survey? Quote
cybercoma Posted September 5, 2015 Author Report Posted September 5, 2015 How do you distinguish between regulated and unregulated? That's what I've done here. Legalization is unregulated. Decriminalization is regulated in various degrees. Quote
Evening Star Posted September 5, 2015 Report Posted September 5, 2015 Seriously, is there any sort of good or service that is completely 100% unregulated? Quote
cybercoma Posted September 5, 2015 Author Report Posted September 5, 2015 Abortion was legalized. There are no regulations whatsoever around it. Quote
ReeferMadness Posted September 5, 2015 Report Posted September 5, 2015 How do you distinguish between regulated and unregulated? That's what I've done here. Legalization is unregulated. Decriminalization is regulated in various degrees. cc, here is a statement from the Green Party Website OTTAWA - The Green Party of Canada is welcoming the shift in Liberal policy to legalize and regulate marijuana. “It is nice to see another party come in line with Green Party policy. We have said for years that we should be regulating and taxing marijuana and freeing up our police resources to fight real crime,” said Green Leader Elizabeth May, MP for Saanich-Gulf Islands. So, neither of the two parties that officially favour legalization of marijuana define it like you do. The link that I provided doesn't define legalization like you do. I voted for legalization but having read the definitions, I would like to withdraw my vote. Can you find a reference to support your definition? Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
ReeferMadness Posted September 6, 2015 Report Posted September 6, 2015 Washington state did not legalize marijuana. It's still a controlled substance, under the same authority that polices alcohol. Only businesses licensed and regulated by the Washington State Liquor Control Board can sell pot, and only under the conditions dictated by the board. Possession of pot not obtained according to the regulations is still prohibited, as is smoking weed in any public space. http://time.com/2955024/washington-where-to-buy-pot/ Man, did you even read your own link? Everything You Need to Know About Buying Legal Weed in Washington State That's the title. I know it's hard to find, being splashed in big bold letters across the top of the page. Were you stoned when you posted it? Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
ReeferMadness Posted September 6, 2015 Report Posted September 6, 2015 Abortion was legalized. There are no regulations whatsoever around it. Really? Can you perform one? Guns are legal in Canada - subject to limits and regulations. Alcohol is legal in Canada - subject to limits and regulations. Prescription drugs are legal in Canada - subject to limits and regulations. See how that works? Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
Smallc Posted September 6, 2015 Report Posted September 6, 2015 That's the title. I know it's hard to find, being splashed in big bold letters across the top of the page. Were you stoned when you posted it? Marijuana is still illegal everywhere in the United States under federal law. Quote
ReeferMadness Posted September 6, 2015 Report Posted September 6, 2015 Marijuana is still illegal everywhere in the United States under federal law. That's true. I was going to get into that but it just muddies the debate. In the states that have legalized it, it is still technically illegal but nobody is going to enforce the federal law. There are lots of laws out there that are on the books but nobody enforces. Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
Smallc Posted September 6, 2015 Report Posted September 6, 2015 In the states that have legalized it, it is still technically illegal but nobody is going to enforce the federal law. Most republican contenders say that they will. The ATF, FBI, and DEA (along with about a dozen other alphabet agencies) all have some jurisdiction if they wish to enforce Quote
ReeferMadness Posted September 6, 2015 Report Posted September 6, 2015 Most republican contenders say that they will. The ATF, FBI, and DEA (along with about a dozen other alphabet agencies) all have some jurisdiction if they wish to enforce It will be interesting to see if that actually happens. Currently, the republicans are only talking to their base so prohibition is popular. See what they say on the campaign trail. Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
G Huxley Posted September 6, 2015 Report Posted September 6, 2015 BC_Chick the government could tax weed like it taxes everything else sold via gst/pst or hst. However it shouldn't prevent people from growing their own. Quote
Bryan Posted September 6, 2015 Report Posted September 6, 2015 Man, did you even read your own link? That's the title. I know it's hard to find, being splashed in big bold letters across the top of the page. Were you stoned when you posted it? Did you read the rest of the article? The lawmakers don't write the news headlines. Badly written headlines like that are the reason why people mistakenly think that Washington state legalized pot. Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted September 6, 2015 Report Posted September 6, 2015 That's true. I was going to get into that but it just muddies the debate. In the states that have legalized it, it is still technically illegal but nobody is going to enforce the federal law. There are lots of laws out there that are on the books but nobody enforces. I would imagine if the feds tried to get into enforcing their law, the courts would end up swamped until eventually the SCOTUS would side with the states and the only winners would be lawyers, again. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted September 6, 2015 Report Posted September 6, 2015 ....In the states that have legalized it, it is still technically illegal but nobody is going to enforce the federal law. There are lots of laws out there that are on the books but nobody enforces. Good luck with that...especially those who wish to transport and traffic. What happens in U.S. states or at the federal level does not equal legalization in Canada, which made cannabis illegal years before the U.S. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
On Guard for Thee Posted September 6, 2015 Report Posted September 6, 2015 Did you read the rest of the article? The lawmakers don't write the news headlines. Badly written headlines like that are the reason why people mistakenly think that Washington state legalized pot. Are you saying you think Wa. state hasn't legalized pot? Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted September 6, 2015 Report Posted September 6, 2015 Good luck with that...especially those who wish to transport and traffic. What happens in U.S. states or at the federal level does not equal legalization in Canada, which made cannabis illegal years before the U.S. Yeah I think we all know that trafficking is still illegal. Quote
Smallc Posted September 6, 2015 Report Posted September 6, 2015 I would imagine if the feds tried to get into enforcing their law, the courts would end up swamped until eventually the SCOTUS would side with the states and the only winners would be lawyers, again. Unlikely: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gonzales_v._Raich Marijuana is still completely illegal in the US. Quote
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