.

[CITIZEN_2015]

Libya was once a wealthy nation where the oil profits went back into the nation's infrastructure. Just another nation that needed 'international intervention' to become yet another crap hole that created the conditions for terrorists to take over and cause problems.

Just like Afghanistan, just like Iraq, just like Syria, just like Yemen. Surprised no one has seen the pattern here. Unless they are blind.

Libyan chaos started internally with internal political dissent and civil war quickly spread all over Libya as a direct result of Qaddafi"s dictatorship. The West intervened but only at the end when things were messed up already. Intention was t help establish a democracy but as we all know democracy and Arab culture don't mix up well.

Afghanistan was a total mess with Taliban and a complete dictatorship and relatively speaking things are much better now in Afghanistan.

Syria like Libya trouble started internally by opposition to Assad. I am not sure how much the West has intervened causing these problems likely none.

Iraq though is a mess created by Bush administration. It was a total dictatorship under Saddam Hussein but this dictatorship made a stable and relatively strong Iraq and the war between different factions and formation of ISIS is as a result of a weak central government now,

[Scotty]

We have a system that is supposed to enforce all of that: the UN. It's a shame it doesn't work as it should.

The UN has only the enforcement abilities as its member states grant it, and no member state is going to allow the UN to redraw borders against its will.

As for the refugees or migrants or whatever you want to call them, the UN is too swamped to even be able to interview them to determine which are or are not real refugees, or even what countries they're from. So like I said, the word is getting out. Go to Europe. If you can get into Germany or Austria or France or Sweden or some others, then you're now a citizen and will never have to return to the miserable overheated crap hole of the middle east. Why wouldn't any Egyptian or Lebanese or Turk who can pretend to be Syrian not go?

[Scotty]

And the real problems started when with US help the Sunni's were kicked out of power and they were actually the people who knew how to run things. It created a seriously unbalanced government and ISIS was born of the turmoil that ensued.

Do you want dictators running every country in the middle east? Do you think things would have gone any better if a civil war had toppled him, as happened in Libya? The problem is the peoples in that country refuse to cooperate in any way. It's each group for itself, and yet they're stuck in the same country. The same issue is at play in Syria, among both tribes and religions.

[Scotty]

Also don't tell me that wife abuse, wife bantering, rape, assaults disrespect for females,... is only among Muslim immigrants if you think so then read about statistics about all above right in your own backyard as how widespread all above are in North America and Europe,

Ponder this, Citizen. I may be mistaken, and no doubt someone can correct me if I am. But I do not believe beating or raping your wife is against the law in any Muslim country. And it is specifically legal in some countries, after court decisions.

[Scotty]

in 5 short years... Harper has driven Canada from 5th to 15th place in the list of countries receiving refugees - UNHCR Asylum Trends:

... also per the UNHDR, (refugees, resettlement and asylum), Canada ranks 41st in the world per-capita:

Of course, in context, which you hate, I know, we're well above the United States, the United Kingdom, Spain, New Zealand, Japan, Ireland and Germany, Italy, Greece, France and Finland, Belgium, Australia, and other vicious, cruel, evil right wing regimes, eh Waldo?

Among the superior countries Waldo is holding up to us as star examples, Chad, Afghanistan, Camaroon, Congo, Iran, Lebanon, well, you get the idea. And by the way, Lebanon still has palestinian refugees who have been living there for three generations and are still not considered citizens, so I have to wonder at just how this chart defines 'resettlement'.

Edited September 6, 2015 by Scotty

[On Guard for Thee]

Do you want dictators running every country in the middle east? Do you think things would have gone any better if a civil war had toppled him, as happened in Libya? The problem is the peoples in that country refuse to cooperate in any way. It's each group for itself, and yet they're stuck in the same country. The same issue is at play in Syria, among both tribes and religions.

The west launched bombing campaigns in Iraq, in Libya, in Syria, and we see here those efforts got/are getting us. See a pattern yet?

[Scotty]

The problem was being part of NATO. The support for the FSA via Turkey with training facilities and weapons combined with air strikes directly contributes to this huge refugee crisis we are seeing in Europe. Or have we forgot about how these people became refugees?

If we did nothing. You'd blame us. If we put in sanctions, you'd blame us. If we traded with them, you'd blame us. We try to do something like bombing ISIS and training Iraqis, you blame us. The fact is no matter what we did you and your ilk would blame us for it.

[Scotty]

Re the stats waldo posted, I wondered if the main reason our position globally fell is due to the fact that refugees from the ME increased dramatically in that period and those refugees were more apt to seek asylum in Europe or neighboring ME countries rather than Canada. I searched but could not find any numbers in short order that would support that possibility.

Our numbers are higher than most Europeans. Most refugees in the world go to wherever is closest to them.

[Scotty]

Libya was once a wealthy nation where the oil profits went back into the nation's infrastructure. Just another nation that needed 'international intervention' to become yet another crap hole that created the conditions for terrorists to take over and cause problems.

And again, it must be our fault, even though the so-called Arab Spring caught everyone by surprise. It was a home grown revolution in Libya, and I remember all the do-gooders crying over the misery and death there and demanding we intervene. Now, because the locals screwed up the aftermath we're at fault AGAIN.

[Scotty]

Not only have the CPC failed on immigration, they lie about it when they get caught out on it.

I'm no fan of the current immigration system, but how exactly have they failed? I have never seen you do more than ferociously defend every aspect of the immigration system against any and all criticism against any part of it. I have never seen you criticize anything about immigration either.

Edited September 6, 2015 by Scotty

[Scotty]

The west launched bombing campaigns in Iraq, in Libya, in Syria, and we see here those efforts got/are getting us. See a pattern yet?

You didn't answer my questions.

Edited September 6, 2015 by Scotty

[scribblet]

The failed Arab Spring and ISIS are the main reason for the refugee influx, the migrants crossing from Africa are fleeing Boko Haram, other violence and poverty. Moral outrage is fine but we know we can't take in tens of thousands without it affecting our economy and infrastructure (schools and health care for example)

Without borders in Europe, there is no hope of ending this migrant crisis.
The principle of free movement cannot withstand this influx of refugees and the criminal efforts of people traffickers

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/11846760/Without-borders-in-Europe-there-is-no-hope-of-ending-this-migrant-crisis.html

The two things are joined fatally together. Europe (and America too) does have a moral obligation to those who have been misled and abandoned by its past irresponsibility. The failure to act against the Assad regime and against the Isil forces which have benefited from that failure, has created the conditions for a crisis which has no solution.

-

Disregarding national governments and their electorates is profoundly dangerous: it is probably no more than gross insensitivity but it might as well be a deliberate provocation to far-Right nationalist forces. (A French opinion poll last week asked, “Should France welcome a share of migrants and refugees currently trying to reach the EU, notably from Syria?” 56 per cent of respondents said “No”.) If this is not handled properly, if the EU becomes ever more heavy-handed in its panic, then the potential for public resentment turning to political unrest will be serious. Even in Britain, which would not be subject to the European Commission quotas, there are anxieties that cannot be ignored. Concerns about infrastructure and community are legitimate and plausible. The people I have met who express most alarm about taking in migrants are neither racist nor inhumane: they are simply aware of the pressures on their hospitals and GPs’ surgeries, and of shortages of housing and school places. These are not callous excuses for xenophobia. They are grown-up responsible concerns which deserve a fair hearing.

[On Guard for Thee]

I'm no fan of the current immigration system, but how exactly have they failed? I have never seen you do more than ferociously defend every aspect of the immigration system against any and all criticism against any part of it. I have never seen you criticize anything about immigration either.

Immigration is what built this country, and it's one issue. Compassion for refugees fleeing for their lives is something a little different. We need to do both here in Canada.

[Scotty]

Immigration is what built this country, and it's one issue. Compassion for refugees fleeing for their lives is something a little different. We need to do both here in Canada.

I can't help noting you love to make grand statements but aren't very good at dealing with pointed questions.

[scribblet]

Of course the refugee crisis is the fault of the west, nothing to do with this http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/07/02/isis-executioners-spare-no-one-killing-74-children-for-crimes-including-not/

[CITIZEN_2015]

Ponder this, Citizen. I may be mistaken, and no doubt someone can correct me if I am. But I do not believe beating or raping your wife is against the law in any Muslim country. And it is specifically legal in some countries, after court decisions.

Say what? Beating and raping your wife is not against the law in Muslim countries!!!!!!. So what you say is that in ALL Muslim countries like Morocco, Tunisia, Turkey Egypt. Jordan, Syria, Iran, Pakistan, ... if a wife being beaten or raped and complains to authorities, then the authorities would say go home you deserved it?? or do you say that they would tell her that it is not against the law to rape and beat a wife?

Also NOTE that my response was about the individuals NOT governments. The post I responded to was claiming that only Muslims have no respect for women (not limited to wives) and I stated the facts that many people right here and rest of western world also don't have respect for women either and referred the poster to some statistics about wife bantering, rape and sexual assaults which are very widespread in non-mulslim countries especially in Christian South/central America and even North America and Europe,

Edited September 7, 2015 by CITIZEN_2015

[scribblet]

Actually, Canada’s response is in line with historical patterns.

[marcus]

Actually, Canada’s response is in line with historical patterns.

No it's not. I'm glad that we all get to learn something on this forum.

Vietnamese Boat People

Between 1975 and 1976, Canada admitted 5,608 Vietnamese immigrants. In 1979 and 1980, another 50,000 people from Vietnam, refugees who later became known as the "Boat People," settled in Canada.

Edited September 6, 2015 by marcus

[cybercoma]

Of course the refugee crisis is the fault of the west, nothing to do with this http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/07/02/isis-executioners-spare-no-one-killing-74-children-for-crimes-including-not/

You know THAT is a result of the political vacuum left by decades of Western manipulation, right?

[drummindiver]

d

Edited September 6, 2015 by drummindiver

[Scotty]

Say what? Beating and raping your wife is not against the law in Muslim countries!!!!!!. So what you say is that in ALL Muslim countries like Morocco, Tunisia, Turkey Egypt. Jordan, Syria, Iran, Pakistan, ... if a wife being beaten or raped and complains to authorities, then the authorities would say go home you deserved it?? or do you say that they would tell her that it is not against the law to rape and beat a wife?

Also NOTE that my response was about the individuals NOT governments.

The governments reflect their religious beliefs. And yes, as far as I know, none of those countries have laws against what a man can do to his wife.

[Scotty]

I was just watching the US network news. I flip around on them around 6:30 most nights, and it occurred to me how different their coverage is from the Canadian networks. There is a lot of coverage of what is going on, with multiple reports on each network. What is completely missing is any suggestion that the United States ought to be doing anything. There are no questions to politicians, nothing about what refugees the US is taking, no statements from American politicians, no protests from people demanding their government do anything. The US papers don't care either. None of the US political panel shows are paying any attention to it, let alone blaming Obama. There is no hand wringing going on, no guilty fingernail biting about what can be done. It's just treated as another foreign story.

[Big Guy]

Germany looks like it will accept hundreds of thousands, thousands for other EU countries, Harper is going for 10,000 (over 4 years), opposition parties looking at 20,000 or more.

Our good buddies in the Middle East, Israel, says it will take ... 0.

That's right folks. The country that created about 600,000 Palestinian refugees wants no part of Syrian or Iraq refugees.

Well, each to his own.

[CITIZEN_2015]

The governments reflect their religious beliefs. And yes, as far as I know, none of those countries have laws against what a man can do to his wife.

Yes lol it is a democracy. The people elect their governments in Muslim countries!!!!!!..

So based on your post a man can kill his wife (you said anything) and there is no laws against that yes?

[Springer]

The thing nobody wants to talk about, wondering how many of the 400,000 refugees now in Europe are Al Qaida / ISIS operatives? And how many does there have to be to create a very serious threat?

It is incumbent upon the Canadian government to background check or screen applicants before accepting them into our country, and that is as should be, given what we have witnessed over the last twenty years, and particularly over the last year.

I've no qualms whatsoever with blocking those looking to enter Canada with that brand of issues in tow, and if that slows down the process, so be it.