.

[Scotty]

I don't know if Muslim men are more prone to acts of violence against women.

I will note, however, that there is rampant rape in these refugee camps. I have never heard of an incident in, say, Auschwitz or other similar camps. Japanese camps in Canada. Anywhere?

The hell with refugee camps. How about once they get out?

British Girls Raped by Muslim Gangs on "Industrial Scale"

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/5386/british-girls-raped-oxford

Sweden: Rape Capital of the West

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/5195/sweden-rape

Sweden: 77.6% of all rapes are committed by Muslim males, who total only 2% of population – Gov report

https://muslimstatistics.wordpress.com/2015/03/19/sweden-77-6-percent-of-all-rapes-in-the-country-committed-by-muslim-males-making-up-2-percent-of-population/

Edited September 7, 2015 by Scotty

[CITIZEN_2015]

You haven't shown anything I've said about Muslims in the middle east to be false. Nor has anyone else.

I have shown it very clearly in my response to your earlier post. You just refuse to concede defeat .........

I am no expert in Middle East but I know this that in 1953 in one Middle Eastern country the nation rose up for democracy and supported its nationalist prime minister to nationalize the oil industry and he was overthrown by a CIA British sponsored military coup. Another Example is Egypt's Gamal Abdel Nassar....... Appetite for democracy has always been there but the West never allowed it to happen. This undemocratic coup eventually led to a revolution 25 years later for which the hope again was for democracy.

As I said I am no expert in Middle East but I find your statements hard to believe that daughters and sisters being murdered and the government would allow it to happen in more progressive countries such as Turkey, Iran, Morocco, Egypt, Tunisia. I know as an example that in Iran a man was blinded last year because a year before he poured acid on the face of his girlfriend and the court ruled that he should receive a similar punishment and also another man was spared hanging (when he murdered and raped a girl) by the girl's family at the last moment while to rope was on his neck. In Turkey hundreds of thousands of people poured into streets in protests when the newly elected Islamic government tried to impose Islamic laws, including mandatory hejab. These are just few examples contradicting your claims about brutality against women in Muslim countries.

It appears to me equal treatment when it comes to law and punishment at least in a few of those Muslim coutries.

Edited September 7, 2015 by CITIZEN_2015

[Scotty]

I have shown it very clearly in my response to your earlier post. You just refuse to concede defeat .........

You mean because your opinion, which you concede is based on very little knowledge, is different from mine?

It appears to me equal treatment when it comes to law and punishment at least in a few of those Muslim coutries.

Because you've seen a couple of cases where men were published you leap to the conclusion that the law treats men and women equally in Muslim countries? Seriously, buddy. Do some reading.

Factbox: Women's rights in the Arab world

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/11/12/us-arab-women-factbox-idUSBRE9AB00I20131112

Edited September 7, 2015 by Scotty

[Keepitsimple]

Typical of Canadian politics - it's never enough. We've already taken in 25,000 refugees from the area and are committed to 20,000 more. We've almost reached our initial target of 25,000 for Iraqi resettlement - so why is it so hard to fathom that we'll do the same for Syria? In a couple of years we'll have resettled almost 50,000 people from the region.......and they will likely settle primarily in Montreal or Toronto. That's a pretty big number.

[Scotty]

Typical of Canadian politics - it's never enough. We've already taken in 25,000 refugees from the area and are committed to 20,000 more. We've almost reached our initial target of 25,000 for Iraqi resettlement - so why is it so hard to fathom that we'll do the same for Syria? In a couple of years we'll have resettled almost 50,000 people from the region.......and they will likely settle primarily in Montreal or Toronto. That's a pretty big number.

The British have upped their refugee intake to 20,000 over the next five years. The libs and NDP want to take in 25,000 tomorrow.

Where are they going to live anyway? Does anyone think there are thousands of low income housing units available?

Edited September 7, 2015 by Scotty

[CITIZEN_2015]

You mean because your opinion, which you concede is based on very little knowledge, is different from mine?

Because you've seen a couple of cases where men were published you leap to the conclusion that the law treats men and women equally in Muslim countries? Seriously, buddy. Do some reading.

Factbox: Women's rights in the Arab world

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/11/12/us-arab-women-factbox-idUSBRE9AB00I20131112

I am no expert in Arab countries so I refrain from responding. I can comment about non-Arab countries like Turkey and Iran (where two-thirds of university students are female and women make a high percentage of engineers, doctors, lawyers, .....) and I can say for sure that no one husband or else can get away with murdering or raping a women just because of victim's gender. The public will not condone even if in unlikely scenario the government does.

Edited September 7, 2015 by CITIZEN_2015

[John]

If every EU country plus Canada, the US and Australia each took in refugees at a rate of 0.5% of their respective populations there would be no crisis...

[CITIZEN_2015]

If every EU country plus Canada, the US and Australia each took in refugees at a rate of 0.5% of their respective populations there would be no crisis...

Not so sure about, this. I think that if the West takes the refugees easy then it would create a lot more refugees in the future. Many who are in poorer countries would flee in any way they can and claim a refugee status for any possible reason they can think of. We have have 50 million likely would double in a few years time if all these 50 million are settled. And where these 50 million can go anyway without disturbing the economic and cultural balances?

Edited September 7, 2015 by CITIZEN_2015

[eyeball]

Sweden: 77.6% of all rapes are committed by Muslim males, who total only 2% of population – Gov report

https://muslimstatistics.wordpress.com/2015/03/19/sweden-77-6-percent-of-all-rapes-in-the-country-committed-by-muslim-males-making-up-2-percent-of-population/

I've got 100$ that says almost all of these men are very conservative in their stance towards the world and people that view it differently than themselves. I've said it before and I'll keep saying it, the vast VAST majority of Muslim men that insist on being sphincters towards women, gays and just about anyone but their own ilk are as conservative as the day is long.

Religion and culture have f... all to do with it. Sure, religion still makes everything worse but conservatism is what really makes things godawful - the most obvious universal trait in everything awful that is attributed to Muslim men and Islam is conservatism. Not culture or religion or anything else, conservatism....the bane of human existence virtually everywhere. Even in communist countries.

[Argus]

If every EU country plus Canada, the US and Australia each took in refugees at a rate of 0.5% of their respective populations there would be no crisis...

Really? You've done the math? Have you accounted for the fact that if every EU country plus the US and Australia took in every single refugee tomorrow there would be ten times as many refugees the day after, all eager and with their bags packed?

[CITIZEN_2015]

And why it is always up to the West to take refugees. Why the hell Russians don't take any. They are as much belong to this planet as anyone else or Chinese or Japan and Korea. It is always the west who has to be humane while rich corrupt Arab Sheikhs sitting on the asses doing nothing for their own kind!!!!.

[Keepitsimple]

I've got 100$ that says almost all of these men are very conservative in their stance towards the world and people that view it differently than themselves. I've said it before and I'll keep saying it, the vast VAST majority of Muslim men that insist on being sphincters towards women, gays and just about anyone but their own ilk are as conservative as the day is long.

Religion and culture have f... all to do with it. Sure, religion still makes everything worse but conservatism is what really makes things godawful - the most obvious universal trait in everything awful that is attributed to Muslim men and Islam is conservatism. Not culture or religion or anything else, conservatism....the bane of human existence virtually everywhere. Even in communist countries.

Gee - what's wrong with that stupid Harper.....why isn't he throwing the doors open to all these Muslims? After all, they are all Conservatives. Doesn't the cunning Harper want all those votes? Why is he so anti-Muslim? I don't understand. Can you explain it?

[Argus]

I've got 100$ that says almost all of these men are very conservative in their stance towards the world and people that view it differently than themselves. I

Doesn't that pretty much describe 95% of the men in the middle east?

[Argus]

Gee - what's wrong with that stupid Harper.....why isn't he throwing the doors open to all these Muslims? After all, they are all Conservatives. Doesn't the cunning Harper want all those votes? Why is he so anti-Muslim? I don't understand. Can you explain it?

I've said it before, if Harper really was cynical and only cared about votes he'd be anti-Israel. There are way more Muslims in Canada than Jews and he could pick up a lot of votes. He does get some Jewish votes, but a lot of Jews in Canada are pretty Liberals so I doubt he gets the majority.

[Derek 2.0]

Interesting look on how tiny Jordan is able to cope with the Syrian refugee crisis:

Almost unnoticed by the Western world, one neighbouring state, Jordan, has managed to stem the flow over the border. In the course of 2013, the number of Syrian refugees in Jordan jumped from 120,000 to 570,000. Since then, the total has stabilised at about 600,000.

How has this happened? Aid agencies attribute the reduction to far tougher border controls – and that is certainly a big part of the explanation. But it’s not the whole story: the number of Syrians entering Jordan illegally, avoiding the established border crossings, is also believed to have fallen.

The reason is that Jordan has armed and supplied a new rebel coalition which now controls a de facto buffer zone in the provinces of Deraa and Suwayda in southern Syria. Here, large numbers of refugees have gathered. Assad’s forces have tried – and failed – to recapture this territory, proving the fighting ability of the insurgents. Crucially, Isil has not yet been able to penetrate this region.

The creation of "safe zones" for refugees, inside Syria, along the Jordanian border, protected by the Royal Jordanian Air Force and armed Syrian refugees is notable.........further still, such a force has been able to fend off both Assad's forces and ISIL is better still...

As it goes onto say:

If this approach could be replicated in northern Syria then the refugee crisis might become manageable. That will be far harder, mainly because Turkey has chosen to back the most dangerous Islamists while pounding the Kurdish guerrillas in Syria. But, at this desperate moment, there is no other remedy that might help.

The diplomatic issues with Turkey are clear....they don't like Kurds.......The solution, we aid in setting up similar "safe zones" along the Northern Iraqi-Syrian border, in Kurdish controlled regions......If the Turks can't be resolved with this notion (i.e. they start attacking said region), we revert back to what T.E. Lawrence did nearly 100 years ago for the Arabs in their fight against the Ottomans (Turks).....We provide them (field) guns......better said, instead of the current policy of providing small arms, we up the ante to include heavy weapons and training in their operation, weapons that wouldn't defeat the Turks, but make them uncomfortable......I think just the threat of such a notion would force the Turks to cease their current attacks against the Kurdish populations....

.....well addressing another major cause of the Syrian diaspora.

[eyeball]

Gee - what's wrong with that stupid Harper.....why isn't he throwing the doors open to all these Muslims? After all, they are all Conservatives. Doesn't the cunning Harper want all those votes? Why is he so anti-Muslim? I don't understand. Can you explain it?

Harper is a fundamental Christian on a crusade, and I said they're conservative not Conservatives. You guys really don't get the distinction do you?

In the meantime, are you trying to tell me that people who are averse to change and cling to old traditional beliefs, that women are beneath men and should know their place for example, are liberal and progressive in their outlook? Please square that for me.

[eyeball]

Doesn't that pretty much describe 95% of the men in the middle east?

I have no doubt the ME, like most everywhere in the world these days, is a very conservative place. Overly and dangerously so too.

[marcus]

Yeah, pretty much. It's not exactly legal to kill your wife, but it's not likely the authorities will make much of a fuss, and are pretty likely to accept whatever excuse for her death you give them.

I recommend you either back up your outrageous claims (and I'm not talking about sharing a link to a blog on breitbart), or just give a warning that you're about unleash unsubstantiated opinions you'd hear a Donald Trump supporter give.

[waldo]

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org

the "Gatestone Institute and its founder Nina Rosenwald" are hardly an unbiased, independent, non-partisan source... I could lay down a stream of links that speak to its/her anti-Muslim/pro-Israel positions and ties... but then... those links, as sources, are equally up for the same criticism - the point being, again, its hardly an unbiased, independent, non-partisan source.

.

https://muslimstatistics.wordpress.com

vis-a-vis, your link to "Muslim rape in Sweden"... and no, I won't dignify the article by linking directly to it. It appears a single blogged article is the same source that has fueled a litany of blogger articles that account for the "meme" concerning rape in Sweden (at large), immigrant rape in Sweden and... ultimately... Muslim immigrant rape in Sweden. The BBC published an article that speaks to the difficulties in translating rape statistics across nations, particularly in regards to Sweden; most notably in that regard is just how Sweden categorizes and reports rape. The Swedish government does not keep stats that categorize rape/religion... which doesn't stop the originating source from claiming "Govt report... government statistics"! It appears the originating source relies upon nothing more than this actual gem/nugget: "anonymously confirmed by Swedish polish in a phone conversation" ... itself, reflecting upon 4 years of data during the 1980s... data that was then "massaged" forward with the most liberal interpretations as to "native born versus immigrant versus Muslim immigrant".

as for what data the Swedish government does officially gather... does officially publish in regards to rape/sexual offenses (re: most current 2014):

so... well done there member 'Scotty'... well done! The power of googly and your "cut & paste", hey!

[Rue]

I would like to address just a few of the comments placed on this thread.

1. Big Guy used this thread in post 473 to attack Israel and claim they are not taking in refugees.

Israel is in fact working through a charity called Israaid. It is also assisting other Christian Israeli ngos. It can not directly take in refugees for 2 reasons:

i-it has no geographic space to place them

ii-overt aid to Syrian refugees will cause both pro Assad and pro ISIL forces to shoot them dead-while ISIL and pro Assad forces are dead enemies they both have stated they will kill Syrians trying to flee to Israel and so has Hezbollah-so it is far safer to assist Jordan's refugee camps through indirect ngos

3-if it overtly aids refugees as it has in the past, ISIL accuses them of being pro Assad, Assad accuses them of assisting ISIL.

Hezbollah physically has already shot at and killed displaced Syrians trying to get to Israel for medical aid and causing fire fights with IDF soldiers who have rendered medical assistance to refugees spreading false stories they were assisting ISIL wounded.

ISIL has done the same killing Syrians who tried to flee towards Israel and were assisted by IDF soldiers when wounded.

If stability can achieved on the ground it is probable Druze Israelis and Christian Israelis will be able to be more active helping refugees in Syria.

Mr. Abbas has told Palestinians in Syria not to leave for Jordan or Lebanon or Turkey or the West Bank suggesting if they do they will prejudice the ability of the Palestinian Authority to argue the state of Israel is occupied land belonging to them and undermine their legal argument that all of Israel should be returned to Palestinians. Syrian citizens who are Muslim, Druze, Kurd Berber and Christian as well as Palestinians all are in friction with one another and Israel does not have physical capacity to separate them from each other in Israel even if it could take them in..

Of course Big Guy's agenda is to not provide a balanced explanation, just try refocus to blame Israel and remain silent on the Arab League and Iran's refusal to take in refugees.

2. In regards to Reefer's comment that Iraq had a socialized economy that functioned before the US invaded and to anyone else who wants to blame the current situation on the invasion of Iraq and revise the Hussein era-Iraq under Hussein was never socialist. That is an out and out falsehood. There were no cooperatives. The government had no direct economic involvement other than to provide soldiers to protect individuals in the same tribe as Hussein run businesses of which there were very few. Iraq subsisted on a black market and rudimentary swap and barter economy. Its oil was controlled by the government and never distributed to the masses but used for revenue to fund its military and a war that went on with Iran for years that bankrupt the economy. Hussein regularly burned down and blew up Shiite and Kurd infrastructure.

3. A poster used this thread to accuse Civanis Romanis Sum of being a white supremacist claiming that it refers to a white supremacist handshake. That cheap shot needs to be addressed the same way many personal attacks on this forum need to when discussing any ME issue by persons claiming to be tolerant leftists and engaging in this b.s. position they are morally superior and anyone who disagrees with them is a racist.

I will say right now, the people who accuse people on this forum of racism should back it up. kactus once asked me on this forum why is the name so important? Why? Because leftists accuse some of us on this board as white supremacists. and won't back it up. Its easy to come on this board and use an Anglo name to hide your ethnicity and biases against Jews and Americans and pose as Canadian just as easy as it is to accuse some of us of being white supremacists. Yah we get how it works Abu. Civanis Romanus Sum is the phrase in Latin for, " I am a Roman citizen ". It was used by Paul the Apostle to demand a trial before Caesar. It was used by JFK in 1963 as an introduction to his cry out to Berliners, Icht Bin Berliner!

It was invoked by Lord Palmerston in 1850 to justify the blockade of Greece by the British navy in the Don Pacifico crisis.

Some of us are students of history. We do not engage in passive aggressive slurs against people.

This brings me to the next issue.

4. To argue Muslim fundamentalist or extremism is not compatible or comes into conflict with Canadian moral values and laws is a fact. Its not racist, its not bigoted, to acknowledge that- it is a fact demonstrated right now as Muslims pull their children from sex ed classes.

5. Which brings me to the next ridiculous statement made on this thread by someone who said all religions discriminate against gender. What does that mean? Did the person who uttered it out give it any thought? Of course not.

In Canada if you want to use ANY religion to discriminate against gender the law does not allow it. So how is that relevant?

The person who used that everyone discriminates argument have they any clue what the laws of Canada are? Are they suggesting we should not tell Muslims punishing there wives with a slap every now and then as one Mullah said on Toronto radio is not acceptable?

What next? Should we allow Muslim fundamentalists to have 4 wives, opt out of sex ed, only follow those Canadian laws suitable to them? Spit it out what was your point?

The point of Civanis is in Canada whether we are Jews, Christians, Hindus, Muslims, whatever the days of practicing extreme fundamentalism are over. No Sharia law will not work with Canadian law-it will clash and when it does you passive aggressive accusers of white supremacists will do what exactly?

What?

Are you telling me I am racist because I do not want to empower, nurture, support, condone or assist fundamentalist Muslims practice their religion when it comes into conflict with basic Canadian values? Bull sheeyit. I do the same with my religion Judaism and so do Christians. We do not demand anything other than people follow Canadian laws. So before you call anyone racist understand the issue-fundamentalist Islam is spreading extreme violence, terrorism and intolerance and its not going away and simply taking in 20,000 Sunni Muslims will not make that issue go away.

There are hundreds of millions more Muslims fighting each other and in fear of extremists in their community.

Progressive Muslims are not the issue of any of us who express the concerns we do. You want to paint me a racist because I am worried about fundamentalist intolerance coming to Canada, go bloody ahead. I don't give a damn who brings it, I don't want it here. Simple as that,

Save your politically correct righteousness for someone else.

6. As for the reference to Joe Clark saying we have the capacity to screen out terrorists from innocent refugees I would like the quote please because I doubt he said that. He did say we have capacity to take in refugees but I do not think he said that.

CSIS is in charge of screening in coming Canadians for security issues and no they do not have the capacity to screen refugees properly at this point in time let alone immigrants. That is a fact. In fact its a huge problem the PM can not disclose and must remain tight lipped about while Trudeau and Mulcair well aware of that, use the issue to get brownie points. Its the utmost in b.s.

Harper should have stated outright that we do not at this point have proper screening capacity and no PM elected can ignore that issue and will be compromised by it if elected when it comes time to take in refugees. This is the red tape as some of you call it.

Its called needing to hire and train security analysts.

The opposition would be the first whining Harper should have spent more money on CSIS years ago. Yep the same opposition specifically Trudeau and Mulcair are also complaining CSIS is too big and our security services are too big and we should not become a police state. They want it both ways as to some of you. So which is it? You prepared to double the size of CSIS and increase taxes well?

The reality is all of you crying and whining for refugees won't take the time to understand you are the first to expose them to retaliation and blackmail in Canada by terrorists in their own community already here when they get here because we have not screened them properly.

How many more Tamil Tiger or Somali terrorist ring fiascos in Canada do some of you need to understand this is a complex security issue and when you take in refugees you enable a future source of income to fuel terrorists. Any of you considered that?

Who you?

Edited September 8, 2015 by Rue

[Big Guy]

Big Guy:

I'd be curious to know why is it we can drop Israel as an allied in favour for Iran, what would Canada gain from that move ? and yet you want to align with a nation that is a major player in the region and is using it's resources to create problems in the regions, such as funding terrorist networks not just to create problems in Israel, but lebanon, and Syria as well... it has on many occasions spoken out for the destruction of Israel....

You also mention religion, Iran is a nation that is run by it's religious leaders....everything it does is based on religious beliefs.....

Israel continues to do what it thinks is good for Israel at the cost of those nations who support her. Netanyahu has gone rogue deciding to get involved in American politics and undermine the president of the USA. I believe that Iran will be the next major power in the region as Israel loses support from around the world. It would be to Canada's advantage to dis-align from Israel as it leans more and more to starting another expansionist war in the Middle East and dragging Canada into the conflict. We do not condone the actions of Israel against the Palestinians.

Iran is no worse a nation than China but we line up looking for more involvement with China for all the economic advantages. As to terrorist activity, Iran funds those groups who support its position in the Middle East. Besides, any activity that the Americans read as opposing their policies are automatically labelled as "terrorist". It has a far greater right to get involved in Middle East politics and geopolitical issues than does the USA or Canada.

I believe that the actions that Israel has been taking under Netanyahu is making it more and more of an international pariah and a danger for the West. If the West continues its support for Israel and its aggressive policies it will suffer the consequences of being dragged into a war that Israel desires. Canada does not need this sinking stone around its neck.

Also note that the vast majority of the information and analysis that we get in the media about Iran has been filtered through the pro-Israeli lens and spun by anti-Muslims.

I do not think Israeli actions reflect Canadian values and we should have no association with them.

[On Guard for Thee]

I thought Trudeau hit the nail on the head when he commented on Chris Alexanders flip flopping on the issue by saying "you don't all of a sudden discover you are compassionate in the middle of an election campaign"

[cybercoma]

Not so sure about, this. I think that if the West takes the refugees easy then it would create a lot more refugees in the future.

You know people don't just up and decide to be refugees, right? You make it sound like taking in refugees encourages people to become refugees. That's not how any of this works.

[CITIZEN_2015]

You know people don't just up and decide to be refugees, right? You make it sound like taking in refugees encourages people to become refugees. That's not how any of this works.

There are different type of refugees. I was referring to economic refugees. Those who wish to flee poverty and seek better lives in Europe and North America. And there are hundreds of millions if not billions.

And by the way nobody responded to my earlier post:

And why it is always up to the West to take refugees. Why the hell Russians don't take any. They are as much belong to this planet as anyone else or Chinese or Japan and Korea. It is always the west who has to be humane while rich corrupt Arab Sheikhs sitting on the asses doing nothing for their own kind!!!!.

And how do I know there are not ISIS elements hiding among those refugees disguised as refugees ready to come here and blow up people? Remember the murder and rape spree by Cuban refugees in the US? I don't wish same in Canada.

Edited September 8, 2015 by CITIZEN_2015

[Scotty]

the "Gatestone Institute and its founder Nina Rosenwald" are hardly an unbiased, independent, non-partisan source..

Oh yeah, if only I could find unbiased non-partisan sources like you posting immigration lawyers defending immigration!

These stories have been all over the news. You can find them from the BBC, The Mirror, Mail, Telegram and others. There are government reports being quoted, and court cases cited. Don't give me any of your crap about the cite. They all agree that the reason thousands of young girls were raped and molested without the authorities doing anything was because they were all like YOU, so precious and politically correct that they didn't dare utter a peep of condemnation about MUSLIM IMMIGRANTS. They even accused child protection officers of racism when they wanted to start investigations into claims white girls were being raped by gangs of Muslim men!

vis-a-vis, your link to "Muslim rape in Sweden"... and no, I won't dignify the article by linking directly to it. It appears a single blogged article is the same source that has fueled a litany of blogger articles that account for the "meme" concerning rape in Sweden (at large), immigrant rape in Sweden and... ultimately... Muslim immigrant rape in Sweden. The BBC published an article that speaks to the difficulties in translating rape statistics across nations, particularly in regards to Sweden; most notably in that regard is just how Sweden categorizes and reports rape. The Swedish government does not keep stats that categorize rape/religion... w

They don't keep stats based on religion, no, which IT SAYS IN THE CITE. But they do keep stats on how many of the rapes are being committed by non-Swedes. And they're all Muslims. In fact, the statistics understate the case since Muslim immigrants who are now Swedish citizens won't appear as anything other then Swedish! But the Swedish government is even more desperately politically correct than the authorities in the UK were when they overlooked all those child rapes.