The Invasion of Europe - Germany to take in 800,000 migrants

[WIP]

If I noticed this large load of crap earlier, I would have responded previously:

Here is the politically incorrect part of the discussion y'all are dancing around but Argus never does...

the cold hard reality is, people of certain values do not when they come to Canada assimilate and become problematic.

To be specific the assimilation comes about because they will not modify standards they bring with them such as:

1-views on cleanliness

2-views on density of persons per square inch, foot, mile

3-views on morality, sex, marriage

4-views on individuality.

And what Argus misses is that the "invasion" of Europe has nothing to do with Canada's immigration and refugee issues that he, you and other white supremacists get worked up about!

It begins with a slow-rolling ecological disaster that...yes, was created by the west, because the first clearly identified change in climate patterns due to carbonizing the atmosphere, has been the shifting of prevailing wind currents in the equatorial zone. Hence, many agricultural and grazing lands have been slowly turning to desert since the late 70's.

And then we add in the "regime changes" and attempted regime changes that have created anarchy in Iraq, Syria and Libya, leading to millions of refugees that want to go somewhere.....anywhere...but keep thinking that Europe is the most wonderful place in the world because the best race of humans live there!

I noted previously several times already, that rightwingers in the US seem to have a blind spot for criticizing Clinton and the Obama Administration for their push to overthrow Muammar Qadaffi. Libya already had thousands of refugees from elsewhere in Africa and thousands of African immigrants working in the oil fields and in the major cities. Once the regime change was engaged, the only thing the competing warlords agreed upon was to kill all of the immigrants they could get their hands on....so who's fault was that? And if many of them ended up beached on European shores, that's the fault of America's EU allies who (except for Italy) facilitated the war in Libya.

Europe is faced with a sea of economic migrants or poverty migrants made that way by man me desertification, pollution and wars.

Like I was saying!

These are not people coming to cherish your values and institutions. They don't like you. They find your liberal smarminess disgusting. They know you resent them beneath the smile. They will take whatever they are given and try get more. You put a slice of pie in front of a hungry dirty man, he will want more.

Yes, you know how these people think, and yet I'm willing to bet you never interact with anyone who is a first generation immigrant to Canada.....if you did, you might find that they are flesh&blood 3 dimensional people who share most of the same concerns as other Canadians.

Is that incorrect to say, no its not. Some of you think wolf puppies are cute. They grow and when they do, they can not be controlled.

Sort of like Arabs right?

The reality is the zones generating immigrants who will clash and cause intolerant reaction and fuel eventually extremist backlash might be better off staying in their countries if we gave them hope to stay there and helped them build self sufficiency instead of draining their brains and turning them into our fast food servers.

No the West is not to blame at this point. The corrupt extremists in these countries are who prevent democracy, cooperation, and training.

The CIA predicted more than 15 years ago, that we would have to prepare for waves of climate refugees as sea levels rise and the equatorial zone becomes hotter and drier. The argument for leaving them where they are, would have been more justifiable if we hadn't established the policies of colonialism - then - neocolonialism to harvest their resources for our markets and control their governing through useful dictators. The "extremists" were put in power because the US and England declared all populist leaders to be communists....so yes there are western fingerprints all over this mess still today.

Mugabe in Zimbabwe is a classic example of a socialist darling he leftist world touted. Look at the tyrants in the Middle East buffered by their Muslim councils. That is not our fault.

Thanks for reinventing history! I recall back in the 70's when CBC Radio used to cover the Rhodesia stories frequently, that Ian Smith and his white government were the favourites of the US, England and South Africa. That's why Mugabe and the leader of a smaller tribal group - Joshua Nkomo, started revolutionary movements. The peace movements wanted Bishop Abel Muzorewa as the leader of a peaceful transition to majority rule. But that option was only chosen after cows had left the barn - the interim government which preserved the ownership rights of white landowners and gave them special veto powers in the parliament, was rejected by the majority of blacks who kept fighting, and since Mugabe represented the largest tribe and had the largest army, he won the war!

Argus has never stated anything other than an immigrant has to want to come to Canada and be Canadian and not expect anything but hard work to achieve that. He is no bigot. I can handle him saying stop whining and work. Its a fact. No special treatment. Pull your damn sleeves up and work.

The natives of this continent should have thought through the consequences of allowing European immigrants to overrun half of the land....and then take the other half when they consolidated power. The English, French, Spanish did what all settler colonialists do when they arrive in a new territory: ethnically cleanse it....declare that their god chose that land for them....and talk about the importance of racial purity ever after.

[kraychik]

Yes, the last thing the right wants is to be presented with the images of suffering that they cause through their economic and military policies!

Blaming the right-wing and what you describe as its "economic and military policies" for conflict in the Middle East is quite a stretch.

[Argus]

Canada is dismally failing in accepting these refugees.

They're economic migrants. If you think otherwise have a look at the mass of them trying to get north into Germany or sneak into the UK.

If all they cared about was safety they'd stay in Turkey, or at least Greece, but no, they're heading north to where the money is.

I don't feel your bleeding heart guilt over not spending other people's money on bringing in hordes of illiterate third world unemployables to fill up our slums.

[Argus]

How do you know who is an illiterate goat herder with no job skills and will never pay any taxes?

This is your problem. You decide to grab a brush and paint everything the same colour from your can of ignorance and bigotry.

I looked at the government's figures for the economic success of immigrants from different regions of the world. The average income for immigrants from that region was about $14,000 in the last statistical report I've found. I also know the illiteracy rate is pretty high in the middle east.

You've never bothered to stir your lazy ass into looking up any information at all, probably because you don't care how much tax dollars are spent on immigrants given you pay none.

Edited August 26, 2015 by Argus

[Rue]

WIP you called me now a white supremacist. Lol. Name calling? Come on you know better. Knock it off and discuss the issues.

Here is what you miss:

1-the movement of immigrants across the world whether it be to Europe or North America are not distinct and are attached-that is a fact-go look at the stats on the origins of today's migrants-it is true because Europe is closer to Africa it gets more Africans, but that is offset by we getting more South Americans at times-either way the movement is caused for the same reasons-you show your ignorance stating they are different-they are not-its the same people, spurred by the same events and identical organized human smuggler rings-go find out where these people are coming from and why;

2-immigrants have always migrated for these factors:

a-climate; i.e., flood, earthquake, famine, desertification; lack of water;

b-disease; rabies, plague, tuberculosis, aids, today the opportunity to get treated for cancer or other diseases in first world nations that would otherwise be a death sentence;

c-war, civil war;

d-corrupt regimes that prevent any future.

Most immigrants are looking for food, water, shelter, work. Period. Call them economic migrants whatever. Immigrant is a word we have come to associate with someone who would actually line up, follow the laws of Canada and wait 5 years to become a citizen. Today we call anyone else a refugee when most refugees are not, they are economic migrants seeking to jump the immigration law lines because they can't qualify for citizenship due to a lack of vocational and language skills. That is a fact.

The reasons for immigration are well documented. The origins of immigrants are well documented. Their qualifications, skills, or lack thereof are documented. Their movement is cycular. The best way to predict population movement is through weather forecasting. You WIP are again dead wrong in saying the CIA knew 15 years ago about what is happening now. They have been wrong about ME developments since the get go and heavily depend on Israel, Saudi Arabia, Britain, for intelligence in the ME.

In fact US military intelligence is kept secret from the CIA as they feel the agency and FBI are at the current time compromised by Obama and his network of partisan connections.

You threw out that number arbitrarily. In fact in risk forecasting its usually done no more than 5 years ahead becausepast that it becomes less and less accurate. Flooding from global warming and inversely desertification from draught are capable of being forecast but not accurately after the usual length of El Nino, maybe 2 years, 3.. Forecasting crop failure is about 3 years.

Commodity brokers often make the best intelligence forecasters. By watching food supply and demand all over the world they can predict political turmoil years in advance but they will be the first to tell you its not as accurate as many think.

Today satellite imagery is the no. 1 source of surveillance and cyber spying is the no.1 way to get into info otherwise secured. There is no such thing as secured information and satellites are not as accurate as people think with cloud and fog or polluted air.

Next I did not reinvent history. Robert Mugabe was hailed by Western leaders as a socialist darling. His predecessor was dismissed as a white supremacist. Hey you know that word.

That so called white supremacist remained in the country and employed more black people than anyone else. His farm and many farms owned by pink people, you know those whitish pink people born in the country employed blacks on their farms. Mugabe seized the farms, killed off the pink people for being pink and placed on them people with no clue as to how to farm but who were friendly to him. He then killed en masse more blacks than any other leader in Africa. How is that reinventing history to say Mugabe is a racist swine, hates white people and killed them for being white, then wiped out black people en masse like the man he was- a fascist lunatic.

How is that revising history? You want to defend what Mugabe has done blaming it all on his white predecessor? That is in fact revisionist drivel.

How is it you are so racist you can't admit that people who are not white have to take responsibility for their behavior?

Show one word in what I have said on this forum, just one word where I put down anyone simply because of their skin colour. Go on put up or shut up.

I will say it again. It is cruel, it is unrealistic, it is stupid, it is insensitive, it is idiotic to remove people from a third or fourth world environment and dump them in the first world and expect a smooth transition.

Only a racist, a vile racist would do that. Only someone so patronizing and bigoted and therefore ignorant of such people would dump them as fodder in a climate they know they could not survive in.

You know what I think WIP? I think you I could easily call you a racist for thinking immigrants are not worth any thought other than to be an extension of your liberal guilt complex that needs to be assuaged.

I think if you really cared for such people you would treat them far better than we do our livestock in Canada.

Hey not you. Just like pigs in truck going to slaughter you want them all brought in and dumped and then what?

Well? Do you intend to marry your children off to them? Will you financially support them and have them live in your home? Well?

Where do you get off calling anyone a white supremacist. Show your own record. How many non white people let alone white people have you aided? Wait now, should I call you Saint WIP? You have never purchased a product made from cheap labour? Give me a break Bwana.

Spare me. I have seen you at Walmart. I have you under surveillance.

The best this country can do is assist NGO's . We need to help NGO projects build roads, irrigation systems, farms, schools at the source of the problem. We need to train people of these nations to be loyal to their people and stay once educated so they can help build their nations. That has nothing to do with white supremacy. It has to do with teaching people to be independent, the greatest gift of all. You would prefer them what, in Canada cleaning your toilets? Who are you kidding. You think they will operate on you? Right.

Instead of you coming on this board pretending the Canadian government has unlimited capacity to take anyone and these peoplke will just kaboom become perfect citizens understand you create a cruel joke that doesn't address the needs of these people-just your liberal guilt.

White supremacist my asp. I find no human not one, superior to dogs or cats let alone horses or any other life form.

Edited August 26, 2015 by Rue

[Army Guy]

How do you know who is an illiterate goat herder with no job skills and will never pay any taxes?

This is your problem. You decide to grab a brush and paint everything the same colour from your can of ignorance and bigotry.

Do they not ask those questions on the immigration forms.....

[WIP]

Blaming the right-wing and what you describe as its "economic and military policies" for conflict in the Middle East is quite a stretch.

Aside from Ron (not Rand) Paul and a few of what they used to call "paleoconservatives," no one connected with the Republican Party criticizes Democratic presidents for warmongering. They can only move in one direction on this issue - further right and demand more wars and more military spending.

[WIP]

1-the movement of immigrants across the world whether it be to Europe or North America are not distinct and are attached-that is a fact-go look at the stats on the origins of today's migrants-it is true because Europe is closer to Africa it gets more Africans, but that is offset by we getting more South Americans at times-either way the movement is caused for the same reasons-you show your ignorance stating they are different-they are not-its the same people, spurred by the same events and identical organized human smuggler rings-go find out where these people are coming from and why;

2-immigrants have always migrated for these factors:

a-climate; i.e., flood, earthquake, famine, desertification; lack of water;

b-disease; rabies, plague, tuberculosis, aids, today the opportunity to get treated for cancer or other diseases in first world nations that would otherwise be a death sentence;

c-war, civil war;

d-corrupt regimes that prevent any future.

Don't try to pawn this off as some sort of force of nature or a series of events with no causal link. Like I was saying before, the west was warned by a number of sources that climate change and fights for scarcer resources would lead to refugee migrations on unprecedented scales and...here we are! Over five years ago, a Pentagon report mentioned in this Guardian article presented near future climate change as a catalyst for wars, conflicts, famines and refugee migrations. The uprising in Syria was largely a result of an extended drought that has ruined agriculture in Syria and caused many farmers to migrate into cities several years prior.

In the here and now, the Obama Administration acted as the instigator for regime change, and should assume a substantial share of the refugee burden facing Europe, along with the liabilities of likely thousands already who have died in transit by sea and by truck....as we were presented yesterday with a horrifying story of dozens of dead bodies of refugees just dumped by the side of the road by smugglers.

The present crisis is in large part coming from Syrian, Libyan and Libyan immigrants trying to flee to Europe. The rest are from that other brilliant idea: regime change in Iraq. But most of the present refugee crisis has Obama Administration fingerprints on it, but I don't hear a word of criticism coming from Republicans for some reason!

You threw out that number arbitrarily. In fact in risk forecasting its usually done no more than 5 years ahead becausepast that it becomes less and less accurate. Flooding from global warming and inversely desertification from draught are capable of being forecast but not accurately after the usual length of El Nino, maybe 2 years, 3.. Forecasting crop failure is about 3 years.

Read Gwynne Dyer's book "Climate Wars" from 2008. What he was told by his sources within the Bush Administration is confirmed already:

Climate Change Helped Spark Syrian War, Study Says

A severe drought, worsened by a warming climate, drove Syrian farmers to abandon their crops and flock to cities, helping trigger a civil war that has killed hundreds of thousands of people, according to a new study published Monday.

The research provides the most detailed look yet at how climate change may already be helping spark violent political unrest.

"Up until now we've understood and established that changes in climate may affect human conflict in the future. But everything until now has stopped short of saying climate change is already having an effect," says Solomon Hsiang, a University of California, Berkeley professor who has studied the role of climate change in violence. He did not participate in the new study.

Next I did not reinvent history. Robert Mugabe was hailed by Western leaders as a socialist darling. His predecessor was dismissed as a white supremacist. Hey you know that word.

Could you give an example of one western leader who was a supporter of Robert Mugabe? I recall hearing about the civil war on a regular basis on CBC Radio shows like As It Happens, which featured regular reports throughout the conflict and transition from Rhodesia to Zimbabwe. Nobody wanted Robert Mugabe in the west....maybe the Soviet Union did, but they didn't invest a lot into him either.

How is that revising history? You want to defend what Mugabe has done blaming it all on his white predecessor? That is in fact revisionist drivel.

How is it you are so racist you can't admit that people who are not white have to take responsibility for their behavior?

You have to include the context to show how Mugabe came to power. That great white farmer you mention...which I presume was Ian Smith...a man who created a separate white-ruled nation when Zambia became independent, and resisted majority rule right through to the bitter end....a bloody, protracted civil war...was the reason the war chief of the largest tribal group in the territory (Mugabe) ended up as absolute leader. Under Smith, blacks were not allowed to vote in elections, nor was it possible for them to own land in most of the country. So, the only option was working for white farmers and adding to their wealth. How long did you think that situation would last?

You know what I think WIP? I think you I could easily call you a racist for thinking immigrants are not worth any thought other than to be an extension of your liberal guilt complex that needs to be assuaged.

The most dispicable tactic of today's right is to turn empathy into a vice and call attempting to understand how others see things as "liberal guilt."

Hey not you. Just like pigs in truck going to slaughter you want them all brought in and dumped and then what?

In this incoherent rambling, you lost sight of the fact that we're talking about Germany and Europe/ not Canada! Canada has accepted refugees before..such as the Ugandan refugees during the 70's and Vietnamese after the fall of the South Vietnamese government. But, what we would take will still be a drop in the bucket compared to what Europe has to deal with. As I said before, the European powers are partially culpable, but the main offender is the USA. They have a shitload of money for weapons systems, they can divert part of their war spending to find solutions to the refugee crises that they have played a huge part in creating!

Well? Do you intend to marry your children off to them? Will you financially support them and have them live in your home? Well?

What was that again you were saying about racism? FWIW, I have a son who has been in a relationship with a black girlfriend who's parents are naturalized Haitian immigrants. Ask me if I'm concerned about "blood-mixing" or having "coloured" grandchildren? And in this Country, most immigrants are doing more work than native-born Canadians. A lot of old and aging racists living today will find themselves dependent on them for nursing care etc. in the coming years!

Edited August 29, 2015 by WIP

[marcus]

I looked at the government's figures for the economic success of immigrants from different regions of the world. The average income for immigrants from that region was about $14,000 in the last statistical report I've found. I also know the illiteracy rate is pretty high in the middle east.

You've never bothered to stir your lazy ass into looking up any information at all, probably because you don't care how much tax dollars are spent on immigrants given you pay none.

You failed to answer the question. Show me these government figures which show that these are illiterate goat herders with no job skills and will never pay any taxes.

I ask again:

How do you know who is an illiterate goat herder with no job skills and will never pay any taxes?

This is your problem. You decide to grab a brush and paint everything the same colour from your can of ignorance and bigotry.

[Rue]

WIP please do not ask me about Mugabe. Find out for yourself I do not serve you. Knock it off with that sense of entitlement. Mugabe was warmly welcomed by Trudeau, British leaders, US and European leaders. Go find out what a media darling he was. In fact he was portrayed in far better terms that Mandela. While Mandela was still depicted as a terrorist this man was touted as the future of Africa.

That's not the thread subject though. Also you totally misrepresented what I said but then quote sources that verify what I actually said. I actually happen to agree with the very book you quote from Dyer. Lol.

You are so sure I am a white supremacist you stopped reading what I said or what my point was.

My point is this-its not realistic to take in an unlimited number of refugees that flee climate disaster. Such people do not come with transferable skills. They will miserably fail and suffer from extreme reaction to being unable to assimilate which includes alcoholism, drug addiction, crime, unemployment, communicable diseases related to self destructive life style, far higher rates of heart disease, cancer, diabetes and auto immunity diseases, mental illness.

Liberal guilt prevents you from accepting the above. You are part of the actual supermacists you think I am. You really believe you live in a superior world and by taking in these savages, you wil cleanse them and all will be well. No it won't. Get over your friggin guilt because this is no longer about refugees its about you needing to have your guilt cleansed.

Save it. I come from the very people not too long ago were referred to as vermin. I know liberal guilt types. Save your patronizing assumptions and concepts.

If these people are to survive we need to destroy the criminal syndicates exploiting their movement to make billions which is being funnelled back into terrorism, drugs, prostitution, child exploitation, etc.

We need to cut the movement off to protect these people from death and exploitation. The best we can do is to try send food, clothes, water, and help build sustainability through grass roots projects but the reality is your liberal guilt isn't going away because you think you can just dump millions in a society that they can not understand and transfer into.

Its easy for you to feel superior to me, get personal, and assume I hate refugees. I am the son of one-what a fool thing to suggest I am a white supremacist when you know I am a Jew. Get real. I sure as hell do not hate Argus for saying to me, you can't come here unless you are willing to sacrifice certain things and change. It does not make him a bigot.

I will take Argus over you any day. He spits out reality. Refugees and immigrants do not need smarmy sneery guilt and pretend sympathy. We need to learn to be independent. We need to learn skills that are transferable and make us productive.

You know nothing about us. Yah you heard me- us. What he hell do you think I am? You think I came from a cabbage leaf? My values come from a refugee's son who learned being Canadian from the air force and army and fighting for everything. It comes from a parent who was given deportation papers for being Jewish even though they were brought to the country to practice medicine in a field at the time that had no specialists in her field. You turned it personal so I respond personally but I am not the issue. My skin colour is not the issue. Don't stereotype me because I disagree with you and don't dismiss my words as ramblings when I could have done the same to yours but do not and respond because I am debating you and respect your views otherwise I would not debate them.

I come from people who escaped pogroms and holocausts. I am a typical Canadian. We come from all over the friggin place. We had to sacrifice, give up certain things and embrace new moral and other values. We had no government assistance and we were hated. We asked for nothing. We established ourselves by our hands, our deeds. We worked, we learned, we did what it took. We have the right to say, you do no favours to people like us. None.

Today the world has shrunk. It allows travel at a far greater and immediate pace that does not allow for Western society to slowly absorb. Its now coming in a tidal wave and tidal waves swamp existing social nets and cause wide spread negative side effects.

That is what I am discussing and you are avoiding.

Its because I am from immigrants and actual refugees I am proud of the sacrifices they made and understand you can't just dump people and exopect them to poof assimilate and then poof again you can feel good about yourself.

It won't work. Its far more complex than assuaging your guilt because you see stories on the news and you feel the guilt of the day leftist trendy cause.

Edited August 29, 2015 by Rue

[SpankyMcFarland]

Oh, added to this, Harper's government has been nagged incessantly to take in more Syrian refugees. So far they've been picking and choosing, trying to prioritize Christians, since they are the most endangered. Both Mulcair and Trudeau can be expected to go all out and bring in tens of thousands of Syrians, no questions asked.

I wouldn't say Christians are that much more endangered than anybody else. It's not exactly safe for anybody over there.

[Big Guy]

I wouldn't say Christians are that much more endangered than anybody else. It's not exactly safe for anybody over there.

And who/what created that human crisis over there?

So who should take responsibility for accommodating these millions of homeless people?

[SpankyMcFarland]

And who/what created that human crisis over there?

So who should take responsibility for accommodating these millions of homeless people?

Lots of blame to go round. I would put Assad number one, a guy who has strong Christian support BTW.

[Big Guy]

Lots of blame to go round. I would put Assad number one, a guy who has strong Christian support BTW.

And if we take Assad out then who?

[jbg]

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/1099e22c-467e-11e5-b3b2-1672f710807b.html

Germany and the rest of Europe cannot possibly absorb that many migrants, nor can they financially afford to but there is no sign of it stopping. This is an invasion plain and simple, the long term consequences of which, if allowed to continue will see Europe become third world themselves. If this is not contained there will be civil unrest and problems I don’t think they are prepared to handle.

This is my view on the problem.

Many Canadian political figures such as Justin Trudeau and Tom Mulcair, and many of the world's leaders, such as Angela Merkel, Barack Obama and others are very big-hearted about what me "must do" to help the hoards of refugees. Many people in the receiving countries are correctly terrified about being saddled with unaffordable costs of feeding and housing the migrants and protecting our safety and societal identities. I have a proposal. It isn't cheap but it is humane:

1. Build dormitory style housing for the migrants;
2. Building university style classrooms for the migrants;
3. Provide them with three years of education, room and board, either for free or for what they can afford;
4. Require them to learn English or French (and in Europe English as a second language) and a useful profession or vocational skill while in these facilities;
5. Provide that they remain in the facilities for three years;
6. For males require that they receive a reversible vasectomy;
7. For females require that they receive Norplant (no less than three years) or a hysterectomy;
8. Limit telephonic contact to supervised cell-phone use with cell phones made available for prescribed calling periods;
9. For those that were professionals such as doctors in their lands of origin, appropriate training and equivalent licenses;
10. Submit to political and civic indoctrination on the benefits and duties of living in an open society; and
11. Some continued supervision after release from educational confinement.

We as a society have a right to insist on conditions for our humanity. Maybe the immigrants can be made valuable additions to our society. Maybe they can be made to fit it. Maybe they cannot. But if we just hold them for a short period and release them into Paris-style "banleius" (sp) or ethnic enclaves, there will be chaos.

Isn't this worth a try?

[eyeball]

IMO huge civil unrest will soon breakout unless this is addressed and this whole thing is going to end in tears.

Well, I'm pretty sure when people like me were telling people like you over a decade ago this sort of cocked up state of affairs is exactly what you could expect as a result of....

...ah what's the goddamn use?

You know what scribblet cry me a river.

[eyeball]

Naturally, the left wants to usher in national suicide by pulling emotional strings with photographs of migrants/refugees on a dinghy. #Compassion #Feelings #EconomicsBeDamned #CultureBeDamned

Yes, we're just not with you are we? It's good to see something finally sinking into you people for a change.

So, why don't you do folks ever actually something about the left, what's it going to take to really to piss you off enough to push you over the edge?

[GostHacked]

Lots of blame to go round. I would put Assad number one, a guy who has strong Christian support BTW.

This is why NATO decided to support the rebels, or terrorists.

[ironstone]

The majority of these immigrants are from the Balkans, Iraq and Syria. So the West gets involved in local civil wars, bombs the bejeebers out of the coutries, destroying infrastructure and making the places uninhabitable and then wonder why the folks with no homes, sewers, potable water or health services decide to go anywhere else they can to survive - what goes around, comes around.

The West does not bomb indiscriminately.

[GostHacked]

The West does not bomb indiscriminately.

I believe it is indiscriminate. In many cases they cannot confirm how many bad guys they killed. In some cases we get where 'friendly fire' ends up taking out allied troops. A mistake you might say? Even with all this tech they still cannot get it right? The weapons are more powerful and cause more damage when dropped. The false notion of 'minimal collateral damage' is insulting to any human with a bit of intelligence.

[Rue]

I have edited this post.

Eyeball you live in a world of simple solutions and labels. Left. Right. Good. Bad. I do not.

I come from a family that fled Russia, Germany, Austria, China, Poland.

Its very personal to me not to write off refugees or immigrants because I am the son of them.

Things have changed. We have today fundamentalist religious belief from Islam that is about where Christians were 400 to 500 years ago when it did not build nations but blew them apart.

Some of us have moved on past the literal meaning of God, others will not.

I break it down. I put it in simple terms as some have tried to explain to you and its not right or left wing in essence. Its humanitarian and existential if you need to label it. We create meaning in life through struggle. Our struggles teach us what then is right.

You can't shove people in each other's faces with no time to adjust and expect them to get along. Dumping a million people in Germany is no different then overfilling a kennel with too many dogs. Its going to cause the alpha males to try turn on one another. We see it in prison all the time.

It is not racist to say Germans who are Christian and who not long ago were in a nation that exterminated 6 million Jews are going to have adjustment problems with their Muslim migrants and refugees and Africans just as they have with Jews, Turks, Somalis, Pakistanis in the past.

In the years to come the influx of Muslims is going to clash with the pre-existing Christian values. It is already happening.

This is not a left and right issue. Its a human nature issue.

Some of us get being refugees Eye. We get being exterminated. So we did things to assure we are never again exterminated.

Ironically you who claim to be so tolerant of refugees hate Jewish refugees because we said never again-we are going home.

The majority of us who survived had no choice but to return whence we came. We were not offered refugee status. I still have my mother's deportation notice She was a physician in a specialty badly needed in Montreal and they still tried to deport her. I am only born here because my father used his air force colleague's influential father to get a special bill passed to bring her in.

The majority of Syrians can not flee and fleeing won't in the long run solve their nation's problems.

I hope they can find a way to bring order to their nation and have it evolve past fundamentalist Islam.

Edited September 7, 2015 by Rue

[Argus]

I wouldn't say Christians are that much more endangered than anybody else. It's not exactly safe for anybody over there.

It might not be safe for anyone but Muslims can pretty much blend in. Christians are persecuted throughout the middle east, from Egypt to Pakistan.

[Argus]

And who/what created that human crisis over there?

God.

So who should take responsibility for accommodating these millions of homeless people?

God.

[Argus]

Well, I'm pretty sure when people like me were telling people like you over a decade ago this sort of cocked up state of affairs is exactly what you could expect as a result of....

...ah what's the goddamn use?

You know what scribblet cry me a river.

You bitch and complain very nicely, but you never have any solutions. Much like your political parties, come to think of it.

[Argus]

I believe it is indiscriminate.

Don't you also believe the World Trade Center was blown up by the CIA?